Kazaa Sues Record Labels 528
dannyp writes "CNN is reporting that Kazaa is suing the record companies, claiming that they used an illegal client to log in to the P2P network - an interesting twist." The lawsuit also claims "...efforts to combat piracy on Kazaa violated terms for using the network."
It's about time... (Score:5, Interesting)
Interesting (Score:5, Interesting)
This is kinda like claiming improper search and seizure for drug cases. I wonder if there is precedent in electronic law.
MOD PARENT UP PLEASE (Score:1, Interesting)
Imagine... (Score:5, Interesting)
case, no case (Score:5, Interesting)
Pyrrhic Victory (Score:2, Interesting)
If Kazaa wins, the RIAA gets screwed. If Kazaa loses, it harms ridiculous "click here to agree" buttons and it hurts the DMCA?
This is a good thing, but Kazaa people might not see it that way.
That argument didn't work for warez sites (Score:1, Interesting)
Suing the record labels for not letting people get away with illegal activities involving the RIAA's property is just idiotic.
What the RIAA is doing with their specialized client is nothing that can't be done with the "official" client. The RIAA just has it easier with their custom software. And we all know about Kazaa Lite and I don't see them bitching about that.
With MSN and AIM et all, using a third party client is stealing resources from MS and/or AOL et al. Using a third party client with Kazaa doesn't affect them in the least.
But then, what else would you expect from a team who's only claim to skill is putting ad and spyware on a gnutella client?
Maybe Gnutella should sue Kazaa off their network. Kazaa is only hurting P2P with this kind of idiocy.
Ben
Re:Money? (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't think it's even about winning, necessarily.
When one side goes around suing, completely unopposed, there's a mindset in the public that their claims might be valid. After all, nobody's opposing them. People curling up into a ball and taking it doesn't help.
However, when two camps sue each other, it's more often seen as squabbling, and the kind of thing that tends to end rather unceremonially.
The idea, I would think, is to tarnish the public view of the RIAA's efforts and perhaps get people to see that the RIAA is NOT operating on fair and solid ground here. Hopefully consumers won't just continue to take it up the ass like 12-year-old girls (oooops...)
Re:Hmmmm.. (Score:5, Interesting)
heck, if they can do it surely it is okay for me(to gain access to pirated material)...
Re:Interesting (Score:5, Interesting)
But the RIAA is not law enforcement.
Actually its more like claiming improper search and seizure -by the guy that lives two doors down that is not a cop or has anything to do with law enforcement-
In real life this would be called breaking and entering, and tresspass.
If it was law enforcement that connected to kazaa to do this, kazaa could not make such claims, just as in the drug cases where cops perform the bust.
Also they have the benifit that kazaa and/or sharmen networks is NOT the target of any lawsuits from the RIAA. So its not like kazaa is doing anything wrong.
Only kazaa's users are. This is seconded by the fact that only kazaa's users are the target of the lawsuits.
So with that, its more like the guy down the street breaking into your house because he suspects one of the many people you usually have over for family cookouts used/bought/etc drugs.
Its more like you suing guy down the street for breaking into your house because you have some relation with a 3rd person that does drugs.
I think kazaa has a chance on this one. Heres to hoping anyways.
EFF? (Score:3, Interesting)
Or maybe the EFF doesn't see merit to the case?
*Warning* - you may not use this Product or.. (Score:5, Interesting)
If you do not agree to these terms then you must immediately terminate use of our Service and must destroy all copies of our Product or face prosecution to the fullest extent of the law.
Do you agree to these terms? Yes[ ] No [ ]
Re:Legality (Score:1, Interesting)
Violation of 18 U.S.C. 2701, Patriot Act, CSEA.. (Score:2, Interesting)
2701. Unlawful access to stored communications
(a) Offense.--Except as provided in subsection (c) of this section whoever--
(1) intentionally accesses without authorization a facility through which an electronic communication service is provided; or
(2) intentionally exceeds an authorization to access that facility;
and thereby obtains, alters, or prevents authorized access to a wire or electronic communication while it is in electronic storage in such system shall be punished as provided in subsection (b) of this section.
and the CYBER SECURITY ENHANCEMENT ACT OF 2002 can be used against them..
http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/cybercrime/homela
and the Patriot Act can used against them..
http://www.cybercrime.gov/PatriotAct.htm
Section 212 Emergency Disclosures by Communications Providers
Section 217 Intercepting the Communications of Computer Trespassers
so, by the way that the current computer laws are written, the RIAA could be prosecuted for Hacking under the "Terror Laws"..
the blade cuts BOTH ways..
The question is (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:Suddenly (Score:2, Interesting)
Patent Lawyers generally have an Engineering Degree and a Law Degree and we all know how fucked up Patent Law is...
Kazaa Lite K++ (Score:2, Interesting)
Still many use Kazaa Lite K++ for file sharing, are they too in violation of the license agreement?
The RIAA used to be a non-profit organization. (Score:3, Interesting)
I found this out by looking on the back of an old record jacket.
Bort.
Re:Suddenly (Score:5, Interesting)
Democracy only works in small units with free movement between - small areas make rules, and if you don't like them you go somewhere more in line with your views.
The US is big and bloated - corporations control because there are political parties, which exist because so many offices and positions have to work together to get anything done. Like it or not, democracy is doomed to fail when it gets too large (not that other systems are better - anything on such a scale will die the same). The more people you please, the more you anger- evidence of this has been piling up as far back as you can look in human history.
If you want a country where computers are the top priority, the entire poluation has to be content with every larger issue, or else their crusade to fix computers will result in the minority overthrowing them on major issues.
Agent of the state (Score:3, Interesting)
Hate to say it kids... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:EFF? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:That argument didn't work for warez sites (Score:3, Interesting)
Police aren't legally allowed to beat a confession out of a suspect. The DEA can't force you to snort some cocaine to get an indictment. An undercover(pardon the pun) police woman can't strip naked in front of you and demand money for sex in order to arrest you.
The point is this. You can't break one law (presumably contract law in this case) in order ot enforce another law.
What the RIAA is doing with their specialized client is nothing that can't be done with the "official" client. The RIAA just has it easier with their custom software. And we all know about Kazaa Lite and I don't see them bitching about that.
So if the police kick in your grandmother's front door and torture her with a stun gun to get information about you, they're not doing anything that they can't with a warrant, but they're just doing it the easy way. Is that ok with you?
With MSN and AIM et all, using a third party client is stealing resources from MS and/or AOL et al. Using a third party client with Kazaa doesn't affect them in the least.
If you used an official client, you'd be utilizing the same resources as you are when you use an unofficial client. What is the difference?
Maybe Gnutella should sue Kazaa off their network. Kazaa is only hurting P2P with this kind of idiocy.
Kazaa uses FastTrack, not Gnutella. Do you know anything about the topic at hand?
LK
-I wrote my sig for people like you.
Real evidence? (Score:4, Interesting)
I wonder (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Suddenly (Score:3, Interesting)
They created a system that was inherently impossible to do anything. With so many different people from so many different backgrounds, how in heck could they agree on anything? Thats why they made it the way they did.
Unfortunatly, they forgot about the power of money and now we all have a system where anything is possible if enough cash is at stake.
Re:Suddenly (Score:4, Interesting)
I was standing outside my local Wal-Mart talking with some friends about this whole ordeal and a crowd of strangers started joining in talking about their fears and how they were offended by being threatened with these lawsuits because of how much music they purchased legally.
As for your knock on democracy, actually 51% of the country could vote for a candidate and still lose. My god man, where were you last election? That's the whole point of the electoral college, to allow more people to matter. That and to keep California from electing the President.
Re:It's about time... (Score:1, Interesting)
By the way, (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Suddenly (Score:3, Interesting)
This is logical if 51% of the people had exactly the same opinions and views, and the other 49% held opposing opinions. In reality, though, we're all a complex mesh of opinions and perspectives. Everyone is a minority in the minority of their opinions, and a majority in a few, and there are few overlaps*.
Secondly, most democracies have basic fundamental rights as a sacred realm that the tyranny of the majority can't impose themselves into (generally). Of course then you get people who just don't get the point, so sure of the righteousness of their own platform, so they try to supercede silly things like basic rights misunderstanding the whole premise (such as the separation of church and statement, which plays out in the US all of the time). This sort of thing is happening in Canada: Our Supreme Court has declared that based upon our basic rights dictated in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms [justice.gc.ca], the government cannot dictate that marriage is a union of a man and a woman, and a marriage of man-man or woman-woman must be honoured in civic matters (which comes back to the whole church and state thing). How does the far right respond? By calling for the use of the Notwithstanding Clause [parl.gc.ca], basically trumping basic rights and defeating the whole point.
Re:Pyrrhic Victory (Score:3, Interesting)
Hmmm good point. I think they will effectively be killing two birds with one stone here. They get to point out to the court the illegal KaZaa clones out there AND may perhaps get the RIAA feces-throwing chimp of their backs. Not a bad move on their part, IMHO.
Re:Weak laws (Score:5, Interesting)
" The EULA is the weaker law."
You obviously don't know what your talking about. A EULA is not a law. It is an agreement between the user and provider and is protected (not always) by law.
"If you wrote a virus that destroyed computers you couldn't sue someone under the DMCA for reverse engineering it to see what it does in order to track down who wrote it and to keep it off of systems."
Well, since one would be letting his or her program run out in the wild and forcing (basically) it onto someone without any consent or attached notices, then the copyright/DMCA laws don't apply.
"And it's no secret that illegal MP3's and everything else are being traded on P2P."
State the obvious why? Illegal? An mp3 can not be illegal. It is the act of distributing the copyrighted work that is illegal. For a person that is hard on keeping strong copyright laws, you sure need to learn what laws are and their purpose. You also need to learn about the entire subject period.
"A EULA will never hold up in a case where it's being used to hide a crime."
I'm glad your trying to do your part for society, but until you learn about what your talking about, your doing little to actually help. Technicalities aside, there is more important reasons for everything. A law is not moral, good for the economy, or good for society, just because it is a law. When a law that appears good can also be used to do something one would consider evil, then it isn't a good law is it?
Re:Suddenly (Score:4, Interesting)
On election day, I go down to the polls and register a "protest vote" - I pull up the write in for any position, leave it blank, and pull the level. I make my point simply - I take voting seriously, and always take the time to do it, but I don't see anyone worth voting for. The Republicans are cutting down trees, the Democrats are censoring CDs, I don't trust the Greens with a war or the Conservatives with taxes.
Whatever the case, voting based on computer issues is a poor choice for anyone to make, since it would require overlooking every other issue, and voting against your own beliefs (unless you happen to completely agree with some candidate, in which case the computer issue probably didn't change anything).
Re:Suddenly (Score:3, Interesting)
The vast majority of the country are heterosexual. The homosexual minority is not allowed to marry or serve in the military which are two rights that the homosexuals have but deny to others.
So clearly a majority can and does deny rights to a minority. You can't say "it can't happen" when it is happening right before your eyes.
I read the EULA (Score:5, Interesting)
Plus, if one person downloaded once and installed it on multiple computers in order to do their big search, he's breaking the license just as I would be if I bought a copy of Windows and installed it on all 50 computers in a company: "This Licence does not permit you to install the Software on more than one computer at a time"
And the one that wraps it up: "It is you responsibility to comply with the terms of this Licence...Your rights under this Licence will terminate immediately and without prior notice if : you violate any term of this License..."
So they did one of the things in the first two paragraphs, they violate the terms of the license and are no longer legal to run Kazaa -- they might as well be caught with a pirate copy of Windows. And KazaaLite, if they were using it, says absolutely no commercial use allowed.
Re: Seriously though... (Score:4, Interesting)
So far as I am aware, an officer may not search your car "just because he or she feels like it". There must be some reasoanble suspicion that wrongdoing is afoot.
This may well be in the case of Kazaa, but under no circumstances may the copyright holder take the investigation or execution of justice into his or her own hands and expect not to be liable for any infringements he or she commits in the course of doing so.
The linked article does not address this point.
If I have good reason to believe that my neighbor has stolen my bicycle, and that I can even see it through his window, under no circumstances may I force entry into his house to take back my bicycle.
I fail to see why, for the ordinary citizen, the case should be otherwise for copyright infringement.
Re:Suddenly (Score:2, Interesting)
Law school grads with tech degrees can often command a premium over grads who have their bachelors in political science or another "pre-law" major.
Some level of technical competence is a must for the more successful tech lawyers. Even the guys who are handling SCO... they may not win, but they're getting paid. They know what to show and what not to show, and how to spin the technobabble so they can keep dragging this thing out.
- Greg