UK RIP Bill Reintroduced

AIM31 writes "The amendments to RIP bill in the UK, which gives the power to read email headers and history to such bodies as the Postal Service, is back. with amendments. Last time it was rejected after massive protest."

Real impact?

[Anonymous Coward]

With issues like this I always wonder if there would actually be a real impact? If they started reading the message bodies I would begin to be upset but the simple fact is (legal or not) people can both read headers and bodies, if they so wish. Of course I am not suggesting that we totally ignore legislation like this (I for one will be opposing it, being a UK citizen) -- as a member of the Slashdot crowd I currently sign all of my outgoing mail with GnuPG. If the going gets tough I can just as easily start encrypting all sensitive email, but of course this doesn't protect my headers.

As I see it the simple fact remains that there is a way around all of these measures -- I can easily forge headers, use another machine, etc. which essentially renders legislation like this useless. I'm going to be a lot more worried when they start to ``outlaw'' these workarounds, most importantly when encryption becomes a big ``no-no''.

Whatever...

[Kjella]

Any sensitive communication I don't send over unencrypted email anyway. I'm sure everybody that *really* has something to hide have clued in too. So, I'm just waiting for them to try to outlaw encryption, at least without any government recovery keys...

Kjella

Much more information needed

[AlecC]

From the articler Home Office minister Caroline Flint said: "These proposals are about vital investigatory tools being used now to prevent and detect crime and, in some cases, save lives."

This is the kind of bland statement often used to justify invasions of privacy. We need evidence of the truth of this statement - evidence backed with numbers and convictions, not one-off anecdotes and hypothetical scenarios.

The strikes me as paying a high price in privacy. Not an impossible price, but whatever we are paying for had better be worth it - and the Powers That Be have not made that case yet.

Maybe...

[Anonymous Coward]

...simple terrorists aren't the worst thing on this earth. Maybe *paid* terrorists (so called politicans) are. I feel terrorized by them and my Karma points won't change that.

Encryption

[Kazymyr]

Time to wake up and generalize the use of PGP/GPG and toher tools. Right now if you send an encrypted email, chances are the recipient won't even know what it is and delete it as spam or a virus.

Educate the masses.

WTF?

[FrostedWheat]

They will be able to use the powers to collect taxes.

What have my email headers got to do with taxes?

Agencies will be given training on the law and how to maximise privacy, it continued.

Maximise privary?! Stop trying to spy on us!!

I'm not suprised by this at all, the government here seems to be doing everything it can to track and control it's population. The only thing that does suprise me is they didn't include the word 'terrorist' in there somewhere.

Re:Power mad Blunkett

[Ella the Cat]

They suck, but if we vote them out what do you think will happen to improve matters? Changing to a new government party seems to press a reset button and everyone forgets (a) how they stuffed us the last time they were in and (b) lets the previous lot off the hook just as all the media evidence is building up to make them squirm.

I would agree...

[Czernobog]

If Blair, Blunkett and the rest of them were _forced_ to reveal both their email and snail mail to the public and there was no way round it like national security and the rest of the crap they will sell....
But no. Nevermind this is morally wrong (yes they have morals, that's why they shoot democracy onto people), the reason they would refuse would be because something like this would annoy them immensely, since their privacy was grossly invaded, it would never happen.

Seems to me Big Brother needs to be disowned and punished by Big Father (us).

whistleblowers look out

[close_wait]

Suppose I worked for a local council.
Suppose I suspected a council officer of corruption.
Suppose I tipped off a journalist from my home phone or email account.
That council officer can now obtain a complete record of everyone I've phoned or emailed in the last year, plus the fact that I recently visited www.howtoreportcorruptcouncilofficials.co.uk.

This is scary.

Re:Whatever...

[CaffeineFreak]

Ah, but the RIP bill makes it an offence not to decrypt a message when requested.

Saying you forgot or lost the encryption key is not a defence.

Remember, under this law you are assumed guilty and have to prove your innocence.

Cold war generation

[zakezuke]

Perhaps i'm slighty too young to really remember the cold war, but i'm not so young not to remember the schools here in america teaching us about the evils of the big bad(sic) soviet empire. One issue that was commonly brought up was the right to privacy.

It was sugested that the soviet union on a regular basis snooped through postal mail, which was considered to be repugnent by western nations. Am I to believe that in the UK that e-mail snooping is being sugested? Not that e-mail is remarkably private in the first place, it just seems to be such a violation of human rights to give automatic access to this particular medium, and a complete hypocrisy to consider telephone taps off limits but e-mail which often times goes over traditional telephone lines.

I can appricate the fact that if there is enough evidence to convience a judge, one can get a warrent to search someone's residence. What the hell is wrong with that old procedure.

Re:Much more information needed

[blibbleblobble]

Home Office minister Caroline Flint said: "These proposals are about vital investigatory tools being used now to prevent and detect crime and, in some cases, save lives."

F.F.S., sheer luck saves more lives than all the snooping they could ever do, combined. Increase the amber-light time on traffic lights if you want to save lives, Ms Flint. Illuminate road junctions and pay your traffic cops. Hell, even consider paying for railways and underground railways that don't break and cause major "accidents" every year and a half. But reading email? Get a clue.

This Labour party

[mantera]

I wonder what George Orwell would've said about this.

What really pisses me off is that this second coming phenomenon has been used too often by labour to pass unpopular bills. When something proves massively unpopular, yield to public pressure and withdraw it, sleep on it for a while till people forget and then slip it when they hardly notice and public momentum has faded.

Blunkett has introduced the most ludicrous of suggestions and laws. I really don't see how he be a minister of anything. He has no respect for people. Not teachers or police officers. How is expanding investigatory powers to 500 other bodies, 500 other bodies!, will contribute to reducing crime and its prevention?

Oh wait, it's to help collect taxes, oh, wait, it's to save lives. Such sloppy excuses. Throw in your "noble" excuses, guys!

Crime in the UK is bad! bad! and the police aren't too bothered about it, most of the time they don't bother to investigate anything, they just take over the phone and advise you to contact your insurane company. Have you ever contacted the police about a theft or a burglary? They just don't give a damn! and yeah like any criminal would use email now that they know it's being snooped! Soooo retarded!

DAMNIT, I'M ANGRY!!!

And this retarded idea that "if you have nothing to hide you it shouldn't bother you" shows great ignorance of privacy rights, as if those concerned about privacy are actively criminal or have things to "hide". DAMNIT!!!!!!!

aaaaaaargghhhh i hate them!! i viscerally do!

Re:If you have problems..

[Absurd Being]

That is the problem in itself. Most of us have nothing to fear. It's the issue that the gov't DOES NOT TRUST US. How can one have a positive relationship with anything if there is no trust? And if your personal life is monitered, you have everything to fear. Politics is like a sewer, the bad stuff floats to the top. If you have corrupt officials, you can't throw them out of office, they can blackmail you into voting the crooks back in, because they have your every slight morally grey act on file. This is no way to run a democracy, but a demoncracy.

Re:Hi.

[91degrees]

It is quite easy to have a great job, a family and a car in any totalitarian state. In fact, that's what they want. They want people to fit a standard predictable profile, where their entire day is spent working, or worrying about their children, and spending a decent proportion of their income on consumer goods such as cars.

This way they people don't have any inclination to rock the boat and get in trouble.

E-mail Privacy

[ultrasound]

Prior to the RIP act, (it is speculated that) the UK and US have had for many years reciprocal agreements to spy on each other's populations using Echelon, neatly bypassing any issues regarding spying on ones own population.

However i think that since 11/09/03 no one gives a toss about the niceties of civil liberties, i.e. Dept. of Homeland Security and RIP. Your privacy has been sacrificed on the altar of political expediency.

1984-Blair

[Anonymous Coward]

> I'm beginning to think that Blair is big brother.

George Orwell, pen name of Eric Arthur Blair. /me thinks he's come back in his time machine and is now prime minister.

Re:UK Laws come from the EU

[Anonymous Coward]

Funny, I don't see that the French, Germans or the Finns have lost their national identity after joining the EU and adopting the common currency.

If your sense of nationality is dependent on superficial aspects like the name of your currency or the colour of your passport, you are already deviod of nationality.

As far as stupid EU laws go, feel free to ignore them - just like the citizens of all the other EU nation states do already. There was actually a very good article on The Register about this.

Re:Just aimed at the home user ?

[eyeye]

Thats why they only want headers, i'm sure if they could store all data they would.

Maybe we could do with a few bastions of the internet such as yourself making an alternate internet where all data is encrypted and not logged.