Google Removes Links in Response to DMCA Complaint

dioscaido writes "If you search Google for Kazaa Lite, you'll find the results a bit lacking. Ironically enough, Sharman Networks, using the DMCA, filed a legal complaint to block Kazaa Lite sites. " Google links the DMCA request at the end of the results which contain the URLs in question, but the URLs aren't really the point. It's scary that the DMCA makes URLs a copyright violation. How long before libraries can't index books? Or own them?

Seems Overboard

[Bobulusman]

People are going to find the URLs whether or not they are on google. It just seems pointless to remove them in an effort to curb downloading.

About the worst this can do is drive more people back to spy/adware-laden Kazaa.

strange...

[di0s]

I thought Sharman Networks was incorporated in Australia. How can they use a foreign law like that?

Uhm?

[Richard_at_work]

How long before libraries can't index books? Or own them?

Uhm, hasnt this already happened [upenn.edu] many [banned-books.com] many [georgesuttle.com] times in the past?

And I'm just sure...

[MoeMoe]

I'm sure that this is going to stop P2P activity.... I don't think it is too hard nowadays to find Kazaa K++ just by-

Oh wait, check those searches [google.com] again, I just did a search and it seems the spiders haven't gotten word yet, this just goes to show that no matter how much you wanna censor, you can't censor it all!

What would possess them to do this?

[ndnet]

While K++ does put a dent in their business model, why do this? It seems like a good idea, but has one fatal flaw:

It legitimizes the suit against them.

Think about it: in both Kazaa and Google, the method of infringement, if it exists, is the same: Allow search results that may or may not be pirated.

By basically validating the complaint against them, they allow RIAA to argue the same point very easily, except in this case it is a blood-thirsty industry group instead of a small computer company.

Oh, well... It doesn't matter, because the next filesharing tool will rise up fast.

Google is an 'enabler'

[militantbob]

Google is being pushed into all of this 'URLs are copyright violations' stuff based on the same ideas used to attack Napster and Kazaa. Essentially, Google is an 'enabler', a willing gateway to property crime. Napster and Kazaa let you search for the property itself. Google lets you search for the tools to search for the property you intend to steal.

Attacking Google is simply the next logical step, if one has already asserted the culpability of Napster.

However, I disagree with the idea that Sony is guilty of 'enabling' child pornography by making laptops and CD burners and camcorders. All are legitimate products turned to illegitimate uses. Just like Napster and Google.

And just like guns, for that matter. Suing gun manufacturers whenever someone chooses to turn a tool into the apparatus of crime is the same thing. And it's equally as wrong.

A side note about public libraries and such: I've never been able to reconcile my views on individual sovereignty and property rights in relation to public libraries and schools. Thomas Jefferson and I had the same problem.

An individual should not be forced to pay taxes to fund a program for the benefit of others. Yet an uneducated populace is an easy target for propaganda and dictatorship.

Of course, I won't take the time to cover the property rights of authors and publishers in regards to the free lending (which amounts legally to 'public display') of copyrighted material.

Re:Priceless.

[aagren]

I don't get it. How would companies like Sherman Networks find sites to throw the DMCA at if it weren't for a site like google?

If google decided not to cache any sites with the word 'kazaa' in it, I'm pretty sure that the users of it would find it anyhow, but the pointy haired suits at Sherman Networks would probably not find it as easely.

Sounds to me like they are shooting themselves in the foot.

Re:The DMCA is not to blame...

[Hrothgar The Great]

Yes, but the DMCA basically assumes (temporarily) the guilt of the accused - if a copyright owner asserts that you are in violation, you are expected, under the law, to remove the offending content, immediately - it's like an instant temporary restraining order.

So looking at it that way, the DMCA is to blame, in this case.

Re:And I'm just sure...

[LostCluster]

Google's simply complying with the request and blocking the URLs that were validly mentioned in the takedown notice. However, Google's not going to do anything more than the law requires, so any new URLs that pop up will certainly get GoogleBot's attention and the cat and mouse game goes on...

Re:Ironic

[JeffTL]

MUCH AGREED. KazaaLite is clearly crooked, and Kazaa is a piece of junk full of adware and spyware. My advice -- use open source software for filesharing, so you can scan over at least the filenames and comments of the sourcecode, or don't use P2P fileshare networks in the first place.

Ask the ACLU to Defend the Search-Engine Company

[reporter]

The scenario that we have is the following.

1. Material violating the copyright laws exists on the web.
2. A search engine provides a hypertext link to the infringing material.

Is the search engine technically violating copyright law? No. Is the search engine facilitating people who wish to violate copyright law? Yes.

Does "facilitation" constitute violation of the law? To look at that question. Let us look at another analogy.

1. Consider a hypothetical company, "Martian Software". It deliberately and illegally copies software and sells them to customers.
2. The Yellow Pages carries an advertisement for "Martian Software". The advertisment includes a phone number, an address, and a map explaining how to go to the address of "Martian Software".

The Yellow Pages is not violating copyright law but is facilitating people who wish to violate copyright law. However, in this case, "facilitation" does constitute violation of the law.

By analog, the search engine in the original example is not violating the law by merely providing a link to the infringing material. We, Slashdotters, should petition the ACLU to defend the search-engine company.

... from the desk of the reporter [geocities.com]

Re:Ironic

[King_TJ]

I'm not even sure I'd classify Kaaza Lite as "clearly crooked" myself, much less "blatant piracy".

Here's why I say that:

Kaaza Lite was an attempt to "de-louse" all the spyware bundled up into Kaaza. If it was truly a piracy attempt (hijaacking someone else's code), they would have changed the name of the software and played things off like it was their own original work. None of this seems to be the case. In fact, every reference to Kaaza Lite I've seen makes it pretty clear that it, indeed, *is* the Kaaza software, except cleaned up so it won't fill your computer with unwanted "extras".

U.S. government policy: Killing to end violence.

[Futurepower(R)]

"Where have you been for the past two years?"

Oh, you mean that little thing about killing Arabs? Oh, don't worry about that. I'm sure the families of the people killed know that Americans are superior beings who should be able to decide who lives and who dies. Some people think that killing is violence, but it isn't if the U.S. government does it.

Re:Google 0wn3d by DMCA

[acceleriter]

I think Google is taking a practical approach to this. They're informing the user that the results have been censored, and then link to the letter containing the censored results. Methinks they're hoisting Sherman with their own petard--the Kazaa Lite folks couldn't have bought publicity this effective.

Re:Google for India also carries a DMCA notice.

[Dark Lord Seth]

Maybe google.co.in has to comply to DMCA rules because Google simply is an american company? That's part of doing busines in other countries; you have to comply to both your own country's laws as well as to laws applicable in the current country. I'd imagine non-US search engines with non-US hosted servers would point and laugh at the silly DMCA extortion and wait for the obligatory lawsuit instead.

What's funny... Read the complaint

[ogre2112]

They list all the blocked links in the complaint, which google points to as a mention of why they blocked the sites:

a. http://www.kazaagold.com
b. http://mp3download.com
c. http://www.kazaalite.tk
d. http://www.kaaza.com
e. http://doa2.host.sk
f. http://www.k-lite.tk
g. http://www.kazaa-file-sharing-downloads.com
h. http://www.kazaalite.nl
i. http://home/hccnet.nl/h.edskes/mirror.htm
j. http://www.kazaa-download.de
k. http://www.zeropaid.com
l. http//www.kazaalite.nl/downloads.htm
m. http://kazaa.infos-du-net.com
n. http://www.kazaa-lite.tk
o. http://www.kazaa-lite.info

Re:Priceless.

[danila]

It's sad that Google decided not to do just that. Since they are under no obligation to index ANY sites, they could have just removed all pages that have high relevance on "kazaa" query. That would really send a message to the lawyers that you don't force search engines to filter results. Unfortunately, Google didn't do that and established an ugly precedent. It's good that they at least included the DMCA mention, but it's bad nevertheless. And it would be much better if the notice was at the top, on a bright red background, like a MEGA-SPONSORED link, so that noone could miss it. :) It would also be great if they listed in plain text the sites that they are prohibited from linking to. :) But alas, they were too frightened. :( I don't know why, because obviously, no sane judge would order Google to close, no matter what...

Re:Google is a public service utility, partly Indi

[Anonymous Coward]

If enough Indians decide they want an alternative to the censored U.S. service, then they'll create one. If they think the quality of service outweighs the disadvantages, then they won't. Simple as that. Either way, it is still the choice of citizens of India: no U.S. law will prevent them from that choice.

make them care

[nazsco]

Google accepted that to spare a few pennies with laywers. They thought "'kaza lite'? only 0.00001% of the queries... screw them"

but if you all that felt that this is wrong change your bookmarks to, brazillian google that let's you find kaza lite [google.com.br], then they will see that they must spend those pennies to keep the community "buying" their products.

that's the essence of capitalism. If you don't like one's product, or if you have anything agains that business, just don't buy from them. That will make they change their policies or make better products (or die, leaving room for another one with better policies and/or better products to fill the gap)

ok that "buying" from google brazil isn't the best way to make them care.. maybe force yourself to use altavista instead for one or two week :)

Re:Ironic

[xoboots]

Doesn't the subject give it away? Kazaa, which enables (or at least egenders) rampant piracy (or at least unauthorized distribution) is itself crying foul over their product being illegally distributed. Boo hoo.

Re:Priceless.

[s20451]

Maybe because, for Google to work properly, their behavior has to be perceived to be absolutely neutral. Sure, they could have attempted to score political points through some childish strike at all "kazaa" queries, but they would have lost a lot of respect and made their site less useful, especially to researchers.

There are a lot of interesting links between Google and the news media. Both present a great deal of information to the public, and both have a moral obligation to present the facts without bias or favor, even when they may have personal issues with it. Once the perception of impartiality is lost, the user can no longer count on reliable searches. If Google had taken some drastic action to score political points, I would have been inclined to find an alternative search engine.

Re:So what do we do about it?

[Anonymous Coward]

"...this law is doing more damage than good."

Well, that's more a matter of opinion than a statement of fact. As far as we're concerned, yes, it is doing a great deal of harm. It is crippling free speech, killing innovation, and financially ruining good people.

However, to Corporate America (y'know, the guys who wanted it passed in the first place) it's everything they ever dreamed of and more. Their vision for America is different from ours. While we envision freedom, equality, and innovation, *they* envision a world where we are completely and totally controlled by them. From our entertainment to our toothbrushes, they want to control every aspect (and dollar) of our lives without haven to worry about "competition" and "consumer choice." The corporate wet dream is a supermonopoly ("Unicorp") that controls everything, can charge any price they want, and is completely free from government regulation.

Given that it is corporations, and not citizens, who have the most pull in government, it seems unlikely that the Congressmen are going to listen to a bunch of slashdotters when their *real* constitutients are happy as larks.

Then again, mass e-mail, snail mail, and phone campaigns worked pretty well for the homeschoolers...

Re:Google is an 'enabler'

[Mac Degger]

"An individual should not be forced to pay taxes to fund a program for the benefit of others"

Yup, he should...that's part of the social contract you sign up to when you decide to live in a society. You can always move off and become a hermit if you don't agree. It's harsh, but it is one or the other.

Not only that, but by paying for things like education, infrastructure and environmental programs you ensure that there is less crime, a road to travel to your work on and that you live in a place where the air is breathable...all things which directly affect you. And that is why the government is allowed to force you to pay...because otherwise you're enjoying the benfits which others are paying for.

What about the competition?

[azulcactus]

This whole issue is just sad but what I wonder is if the same notice was sent to other search engines? I believe Yahoo uses a lot of Google technology so that comparison isn't good but take AltaVista for example. Search [altavista.com] for Kazaa Lite there and you see the first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth and probably more (got tired of counting) links are links listed in the DMCA suit [chillingeffects.org].

Why is this interesting? Google is a company whose business is to deliver the best results for any given search. If through the process of lawsuits, they no longer deliver the best results, users go elsewhere. So if all these companies target Google and only Google, in theory, eventually they could bring it down to a second rate service. I know you cannot selectively enforce patents (for this same reason), but not a clue about this lovely DMCA law.

Re:Priceless.

[cyberformer]

The precedent is that Google will take down links under threat of DMCA, not a legal one. However, that precedent was actually set a long time ago, by the "Church" of Scientology demanding that Google stop linking to Xenu.net. (There may have been evene earlier cases with Google and DCMA, but that's the big one.)

In the CoS/Xenu case, Google didn't stop indexing Scientology altogether; they just replaced the Xenu link with one to the DMCA notice. Following their own precedent, they have to do the same with Kazaa.

Re:Ironic

[DickBreath]

KazaaLite is a hack of Kazaa, and thus blatant piracy.

One obvious solution is to distribute a Kazaa Lite patcher that transforms a Kazaa into Kazaa Lite prior to installation. Now there is no copyright violation. Nobody is distributing even a patched version of Kazaa.

Name this patcher program something completely different, without the word Kazaa in the name to eliminate trademark claims. Word of the patch would still spread just as it did for Kazaa Lite, and spread by the same mechanisms.

Horrendously OT

[Jellybob]

I'll get slapped down by the mods for this, but your sig deserved a reply:

How Slashdot should be. [LINK TO GOOGLE NEWS TECH SECTION]

If that's what you want, why not trundle of and use the Google News tech section? It's not like anyones forcing you to stay.

Re:Horrendously OT

[Mwongozi]

My sig admittedly isn't very clear. I want the stories from Google's tech section, combined with a SlashDot-style comments system.

Kazaa Lite is piracy.

[glrotate]

They are distributing modified Kazaa material without permission.

It would be like me distributing Linux with the GPL notices removed.

When you want somethin', and you don't want to pay for it...

Re:What's funny... Read the complaint

[WWWWolf]

What is interesting is that Google lists the sites that have been removed due to DMCA, yes. I first saw this in the case when the Church of Scientology tried to use DMCA to de-list pages critical to them.

The effect is precisely not what the people who invoked DMCA wanted to happen, though.

Google is basically saying "Okay, we would have shown you these sites, but we were told not to". And people are far more curious about seemingly forbidden knowledge =)

Let us rejoice that Google still can tell that the sites were censored and is not required to act ignorant ("DMCA-delisted site? Where? We have no DMCA-delisted sites here, no sir, and if we did, they would be, after all, delisted!").

Re:Priceless.

[danila]

It's impossible to perceive it as neutral if they remove links at the request of others. Currently Google presents biased information regarding Kazaa Lite. I don't think blocking all Kazaa links for certain period (or may be just providing an empty results page with information for users about DMCA and Sharman's threats and a link for those who still want to search for "kazaa", which would lead to all searches, except lite). I am not suggesting they score any points, political or otherwise. I am just saying that bowing to unreasonable requests (legal, but that's an abuse of a bad law) doesn't present a search engine in the best light. I don't usually give a shit about boycotts and I will use Google if I decide that I need it, but for now my default engine is Altavista (and I e-mailed Google about it).

Altavista [altavista.com] is now a pretty good search engine. Sponsored links may be annoying, but they are clearly marked and can be removed by a simple Proxomitron filter (remove all pairs that include "*Sponsored*"). I just may be as happy with it, as I was with Google.

Re:Ironic

[boneshintai]

The liscence agreement only affects you if you're installing the software. You need never see the agreement at all to go over the install program and manipulate it.

It may well be a copyright violation, but it's not a liscence violation as the K Lite guys need never have agreed to the liscence.

In other news...

[jmors]

From: RIAA

To: Sharman Networks

To whom it may concern,

We are pleased to see others taking a stand against the providing of links to illegal versions of copyrighted works. We agree wholeheartedly with your stand that providing search results to copyrighted material is a criminal act. As someone who obviously upholds our philosophy we KNOW that you will be all too happy to remove from any search results that your software provides any links to dowloads of copyrighted works such as music, movies, other software and the like.

Thank you so much for proving our point!

IDIOTS!

Re:Ironic

[Anonymous Coward]

Noo!!!!
Don't!!!

Do you have any idea how stupid that is?? Never trust any binary (or source, for that matter) you find on a file sharing program. Most p2p clients should be configured to completely ignore those results.

Dumb, dumb, dumb.

Re:What's funny... Read the complaint

[plugger]

The copy of the complaint linked to by Google is hosted on chillingeffects.org . I guess that tells you what they think of the DMCA.

Re:Horrendously OT

[NanoGator]

"If that's what you want, why not trundle of and use the Google News tech section? It's not like anyones forcing you to stay. "

Slashdot lets you discuss, Google does not. It's not about forcing, it's about niether side being perfect. Slashdot's got a great discussion forum going, Google has more interesting nerd news without the Anti-MS, disgustingly pro-Mozilla bias.

Re:What's funny... Read the complaint

[I Want GNU!]

Except that this is at the bottom of the page in the fine print and no one will notice it, especially if you list 100 results...