Blocker Tags to Protect Privacy From RFID Tags 295
geekee writes "According to an article at CNET, RSA Security is developing a 'blocker' tag that disrupts RFID tag transmissions, protecting a person's privacy from those who would abuse RFID technology. The blocker tag would be embedded in your watch, for instance. This method has an advantage over destroying the RFID tags after purchase because useful information on the tag could help consumers (e.g. laundry instructions)." According to the RSA scientist quoted in the article, privacy concerns regarding RFID have been overblown, but it's still worth being proactive when finding ways to defeat the tags.
God I hate those tags (Score:5, Funny)
Re:God I hate those tags (Score:4, Informative)
well... there's gilette mach iii razor blades (source is here [indymedia.org.uk]). apparently that's been canned because of the outcry. but early adopters always have a tough time of it..
Re:God I hate those tags (Score:5, Insightful)
i believe that the price of freedom is eternal vigilance. that's pretty funny, though.
Re:God I hate those tags (Score:3, Interesting)
Or you can simply EMP them. Blow the circuit, and then nobody can read the ID.
Shouldn't take too much if a pulse either, as they are so small.
Next big item on eBay: portable EMP generators.
Re:God I hate those tags (Score:4, Funny)
Excellent. Then the next time some prick wont stop waffling into his cellphone during the movie, I can just take matters into my own hands and blast it into a useless lump of plastic.
Re:God I hate those tags (Score:2, Funny)
Re:God I hate those tags (Score:5, Funny)
But then you'd be helping the MPAA, by stopping the flow of text messages complaining about the movie!
Re:God I hate those tags (Score:3, Funny)
Just imagine: You put your new expensive shirts (RFID: 30C, no prewash) in the machine, but forget the box from last night's pizza (RFID: bake at 200C for 15 minutes) in the tr
Re:God I hate those tags (Score:2, Funny)
Perhaps you intended to to write, "[T]he price of freedom is eternal vigilantism. Or, is it evangelism? Damn, the two are so closely entwined, I can't decide. Militarism? Mercantilism? Zealot vs. Zealot? Wasn't that in MAD magazine, which I read when I was a kid and is probably a contributing factor as to why I can't get a date with a girl? Sorry, but I'm late for the militia meeting."
To quote Tom Lehrer, "The rest of you can look it up when you get home."
SiO
Re:God I hate those tags (Score:2)
Vigilantism with RFID blocker tags (Score:3, Interesting)
Shoplifting? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Shoplifting? (Score:3, Insightful)
Good tradeoff, eh?
Re:Shoplifting? (Score:5, Interesting)
If the cops can't search my car without consent or a warrant, I'll be damned if a supermarket clerk can search me.
Re:Shoplifting? (Score:3, Informative)
Ironically enough, you denying them consent to search is generally considered probable enough for them to search it anyway....
Re:Shoplifting? (Score:3, Interesting)
Same reason airport security can search every person as many times and as thoroughly as they wish, but the police can't come to your house and do the same w/o a warrant.
Re:Shoplifting? (Score:4, Informative)
Case in point: My roommate this past year had been arrested for alcohol possesion (he's 19). The alcohol was in his car trunk, out of view. He wasn't pulled over for DUI, but for a busted tail light. The cop asked to search his car and he refused. The cop searched it anyway. The case was thrown out, my roommate cleared of all charges, and the cop was suspended. This is an example of how the system can fail, but it's an example of how the system works and the extent of your rights in the US.
Depends on where you are. (Score:4, Interesting)
IANAL but my sister is and she gets really shitty about this.
Re:Shoplifting? (Score:3, Insightful)
Of course there are risks.
1) US govt may decide blocking RFID is terrorism
2) Corporations may decide it's infridgment on their IP
Either way, blockers are banned
Re:Shoplifting? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Shoplifting? (Score:3, Informative)
Good tradeoff, eh?
DAMN good tradeoff - If they can't show the footage, in court, of you stuffing something in your pockets, they better have a hefty budget set aside for harassment suits.
Incidentally, you know those sensors many stores already have by the doors? You can ignore them. Someone tries to physically stop you? Add assault charges on top of the civil suit. Of course, if they actually *find* something on you, I'd ima
Re:Shoplifting? (Score:5, Interesting)
Quite a few stores won't let you shop carrying a backpack, so I figure they'll do sometihing along those lines.
Don't like it? You don't have to shop there and they have the right to refuse you business as long as they aren't discriminating against a class of people(I don't think paranoid is a legal class of people).
Re:Shoplifting? (Score:2)
Re:Shoplifting? (Score:2)
And it shows.
My government teacher worked as a store security guard during the summers, and he told us many amusing stories of people who thought like you seem to.
My favorite one: The mall he worked in was across the county line (half the mall in one county, half the mall in the next) and some shoplifters thought security guards couldn't pursue across it. One such person got a rather rude surprise when he got across the line, stopped to taunt my teacher and got tackled by his 200+ l
Re:Shoplifting? (Score:2)
Do you have anything than an unrelated anecdote to back this up? Honestly, if you know something relevant about store guards that can be applied in this case, I would be really interested.
Re:Shoplifting? (Score:2, Interesting)
Disclaimer - I work with lawyers and for a private investigations and security group.
Re:Shoplifting? (Score:2)
Re:Shoplifting? (Score:2)
I'll accept the "detain", though if they don't have some really good evidence of a crime, my pockets will smile.
However, beyond that? Hey, fair enough, you work in the field, whereas I've only gone by the best reasonable explanations I've found so far. So what powers *do* they have, and why?
Or more to the point, if I hire a pair of goons to "detain" everyone that invades my personal
A better idea... (Score:4, Interesting)
Going lotech (Score:5, Interesting)
This just seems like really stretching for a scenario in which RFID tags will be useful beyond inventory tracking (What happens when 5% of your laundry says "warm" and the rest says "hot")?
Before paying RSA for advanced laundry stealth technology, I think I'd first try something a little more straightforward, like a few seconds in my microwave.
Re:Going lotech (Score:2)
The tags will be read by your "Rosie" model robot, that way she will know what load get what clothes.
And for all of you kids out there, get your mind out of the gutter, Rosie the robot is from the Jetsons.
Re:Going lotech (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Going lotech (Score:2)
Re:Going lotech (Score:2)
Washing instructions suck! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Washing instructions suck! (Score:4, Insightful)
All my laundry does. That's because I'm a nerd (not particularly proud of it, but it is what it is.) On the other hand, there are people out there who want to wear silk and angora sweaters and other substances besides denim and cotton, and don't particularly care that it has to be carefully washed.
Re:Going lotech (Score:5, Funny)
Your washing machine blue-screens and sends an error report to Microsoft.
Hell's Bells! The whole system would crash! (Score:2)
You've got to be kidding me. Obviously it would set it to warm, or it will tell you that you have mixed items. Perhaps you should ask yourself what would normaly happen if a human was doing this manually? Then perhaps that is what would happen here. Surely this is blindingly obvious?
Re:Hell's Bells! The whole system would crash! (Score:2)
You mean it would say "You can't wash these together. That's wrong and you should know it." and throw the them back at you?
Re:Going lotech (Score:2)
Laundry machine beeps and displays message "are you sure you'd like to do this?"
Next question?
Excellent idea (Score:2)
reasonable? (Score:2)
You must have missed the bit where it was claimed that the cost of the device is ten cents. It should sell for no more than a buck. It's just a scam to make money for RFID makers, so I expect it to be a ripp off in every way [slashdot.org]. It's just too easy to see this comming.
But... (Score:5, Funny)
You: "It's a watch that protects my privacy from the invasive government by sending out waves of non-dangerous radiation!"
Them: "Terrorist!"
You: "But it's just radio wa-wahhhhhhh!" *getting taken away in handcuffs*
Re:But... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:But... (Score:2, Insightful)
Is that legal? (Score:4, Interesting)
IANAL, but I think it may not be legal!
Clue (Score:2)
This is perfectly legal. You're only interfering with things you already own.
Re:Clue (Score:2)
Plus, you're not interfering with things you already own if you walk into Walmart wearing the device.
Re:Is that legal? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Is that legal? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Is that legal? (Score:2)
Re:Is that legal? (Score:4, Insightful)
You'll be intentionally jamming radio transmissions. The FCC won't like that either. Don't try to say "it's unlicensed spectrum", you're still intentionally blocking legal radio communications traffic. Police radar is also unlicensed spectrum, you can have your own unlicensed transmitter, just by purchasing a radar gun. Many internal security systems use radar for detection of intruders. If you get caught with a jammer for police radar, you are screwed.
RFID jamming will be prosecuted the same way.
If you really wonder about the legality, just ask yourself, who benefits from RFID? Who benefits from blocking RFID? Which one owns more law-writers? (Excuse me, vote-sellers. The laws themselves have been written by lobbyists for a very long time now.)
Re:Is that legal? (Score:2, Insightful)
RTFA, it's for keeping people from reading the tags after you buy something, not to let you shoplift!
So if I go and buy two FRS radios and have them jam each other, do I have to sue myself? It would be another tag that generates interference only when read so people can't read the tags. It's not to prevent others from using the technology for their own uses, or to jam receivers everywhere.
Going to be very popular! (Score:4, Funny)
This sets a standard. (Score:4, Insightful)
Paranoia (Score:2)
body?
It will be outlawed (Score:2)
Nah, it will be like another set of pricacy tools. (Score:5, Insightful)
I have no faith in a blocking tag. Retailers will set off alarms every time you leave a store if you block their signals and readers will be made to defeat them in time. All you will get out of this evil technology is more grief, just like the phone system. The root of the problem, customer data retention and sale, is what needs to be addressed.
Re:Nah, it will be like another set of pricacy too (Score:2)
I don't know about you, but if I paid for everything, and this anti-RFID watch thingy sets an alarm off and they want to check me, you can be DAMNED SURE i'm going to make a scene about it if I KNOW its the watch setting it off.
On a side note, I was wondering, when I worked at Kohl's and Blockbuster, we had product that had security tags on them. You'd swipe them to turn
Too Useful to disable (Score:2, Insightful)
if these tags cost only 10 cents, why can't we completely disable them? it's not like were going to reuse them or use them at all outside of warehouses and stores, there doesn't seem to be any practical use for them in the home
Build security in from the beginning... (Score:4, Interesting)
well... (Score:2)
Behold! (Score:2)
You'll pay and pay (Score:5, Interesting)
Like they haven't thought of that. (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Like they haven't thought of that. (Score:2)
You don't think the "computers" will make the same kind of "mistakes" and more with the new, user-confuser technology?
Re:Like they haven't thought of that. (Score:2)
I guess it probably comes down to consumer protection mechanisms too. It doesn't appear that overcharging is a problem here in Australia even though it is self regulated using a "Code of Practice for Computerised Checkout Systems in Supermarkets". Amoung other things if a go
Re: Like they haven't thought of that. (Score:2, Interesting)
Of course, I'd still prefer some sort of field-programmable device where a flag in the tag could be set to indicate that it's been bought (like demagnetizing the anti-theft Elec
Re: Like they haven't thought of that. (Score:2)
This is another level of bean counting that is going to drive everyone insane. Everytime the inventory gets out of sync someone is going to have to account for it.
I wanna subscribe to your newsletter (Score:5, Funny)
I've always wanted an EMP in my watch.
Re:I wanna subscribe to your newsletter (Score:2)
Easy (Score:4, Funny)
no rfid
just dont touch that zipper (ouch hottt)
Re:Easy (Score:2)
Price fixing? (Score:5, Insightful)
Along the lines of buildign a better mousetrap: How long will it take a theif to discover a way to neutralize these tags? What happens when a person walks out of a store with a cart that has 30% of the tags inactive? How will anyone know that s/he hasn't paid for everything?
Re:Price fixing? (Score:2)
Re:Price fixing? (Score:4, Insightful)
Yep, just like CD's did to the price of games when they first came out, hey!
RFID Silliness (Score:5, Interesting)
On a tin-foil-hat note: this is how freedoms are taken away.
"When you draw a line in the sand, and step over it, it does not appear to be a big step from your last position, so you allow it. But if you continue to allow it, over time, you will realize (albeit, probably too late) that you do not have your original position in sight as you turn around."
Re:RFID Silliness (Score:2)
Here comes my own IPO (Score:3, Funny)
It is a small 8.4oz radioactive device that is spot welded to any part of the merchandise which emits shrill radio signals in the 3Ghz spectrum culled from the choruses of 6 random songs from the 70s group ABBA. No device, person, or bat can overcome that!!!!
After that it will be the RFID blocker blocker blocking mechansim!
Lame excuses for RFID (Score:4, Interesting)
Man, these RFID people are getting desperate. First it was "it'll stop theft". Then it was "It'll keep food from getting spoiled/infected. And that'll keep food safe from....TERRORISTS!"(Don't worry, I missed that train of thought too, but the T word is like 'dot com' was a couple years ago, so...) Now it's "it'll help you do your laundry." If you can't remember how a certain shirt gets washed by the time the little printed tag wears out, you either need fewer clothing, or a brain. Besides, what's the washing machine gonna do, scream at you like your mom/girlfriend/wife/CowboyNeal would, for mixing the underwear with the christmas socks? How useful.
Now, of course, I have one question- I assume there'll be maybe two bits for water temperature(cold, cold/warm, warm, hot), two bits for fragile-ness(delicate, knit, perm, regular), maybe two bits for color-compatibility(how much it bleeds) and color(dark, color, white, etc).
The question is- can we get an Evil Bit added?
the Malibu Stacy effect (Score:2)
Yeah, that little perk was the frosting on my cake, as it were. Here is a tidbit many of us may recall:
Spoofed RFIDs (Score:4, Interesting)
Another thought is that it could send out a bunch of random RFIDs thus (hopefully) protecting anonymity but keeping statistics useful?
Re:Spoofed RFIDs (Score:2)
ie.
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Oblig. Simpsons Ref. (Score:2)
"One thing is for certain, there is no stopping them; the tags will soon be here. And I, for one, welcome our new radio-frequency overlords. I'd like to remind them that as a trusted TV personality, I can be helpful in rounding up others to toil in their returned-goods and overstock caves."
Attracting attention to yourself (Score:2, Interesting)
At last (Score:3, Funny)
Re:At last (Score:2)
Theft (Score:2)
Sounds like fun (Score:3, Funny)
URL to Rivest RFID blocking paper (Score:5, Informative)
http://theory.lcs.mit.edu/~rivest/JuelsRivestSzyd
History repeats itself (Score:4, Funny)
Guns & Ammo (Score:3, Funny)
Oh wait forget it
How is RFID going to work in practice? (Score:5, Insightful)
The only way that I can see it working is if stores keep a record of all RFIDs that they have in stock, and then only charge you if the RFID matches when you walk out.
How are they planning to actually administrate that? Scan all products on the way in? So they shove a pallet full of Chocolate Frosted Sugar Bombs though their stock door and a mondo scanner reads the RFIDs off of every box? Or do they scan a barcode or type in a code that just says what should be on the stack?
What I'm interested in is the possibility of deliveries getting screwed up and RFIDs getting entered into the wrong systems. There's the problem with buying something at store X then store Y thinking that it belongs to them, but there's a problem for the stores as well. If you want to buy something and for some reason the RFID isn't on their system, how do they sell it to you? And should you buy it, knowing that the RFID might appear on their or store Y's system at some point?
And given that the biggest theft problem that many stores (especially supermarkets) face is employee theft, do they need RFID scanners on all their doors? If stock does go missing while it's still on the system, what happens to those RFID numbers? Do they just sit in there indefinitely, or is there a plan for removing them? What happens when Joe Customer walks in wearing or carrying something that he's bought second hand from an employee or shoplifter who obtained a five finger discount?
It won't take many of these incidents to put a hell of a dent in consumer confidence over RFID, quite aside from the privacy issue of stores knowing that you're wearing a rubber g-string and fishnet stockings under your suit pants.
Re:Tin Foil Hats Too? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Tin Foil Hats Too? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Tin Foil Hats Too? (Score:2)
If you're going to argue against RFID tags, use an argument that makes sense.
Maybe if you said "after someone is unjustly prosecuted based on RFID evidence", I wouldn't be so quick to debunk your zeal.
Re:Tin Foil Hats Too? (Score:4, Insightful)
Ohhh, but how did they determine "if"? Maybe the police should be allowed to enter everyones home and listen to everyones phone calls to search for something illegal. If they happen to find something, that's another criminal behind bars.
Remember the infared detectors police thought would be great for to catch people growing drugs in their basements? Luckily, that was shot down [erowid.org] by the Supreme Court.
Re:Tin Foil Hats Too? (Score:2)
Re:Tin Foil Hats Too? (Score:3, Interesting)
No, you can keep right on selling them.
You should write and thank them.
I don't think these devices would even be remotely practical for another 3-4 years when RFID's will be prevalent
3 or 4 years aren't all that unreasonable considering they have to do the R&D (i.e. get the blocker down to a chip manufacturable for under 10 cents) and find consumer product manufacturers willing to partner with them to get it into the consumer market.
Re:Site slowing - copied text here to be safe (Score:2, Interesting)
Seriously, the whole thing reminds me of Sylvester McBean's magical Star-On Star-Off Machine.