Optical Recognition System To Foil Card Counting? 427
Adair writes "Wired is running this article about a new Optical Recognition System by MindPlay being evaluated by some casinos to keep constant track of table game play in order to identify card counters by their patterns of play. The software, using 14 digital cameras around the table, can keep track of every card played, amounts bet, and even tell the difference between your drink, napkin, cards, chips, and ashtrays."
They already do this (Score:5, Informative)
The problem with automating this system is what about false positives? There's a difference between patterns being identified by humans and patterns being identified by computers.
Re:What's wrong with counting anyway...?!?! (Score:5, Informative)
Counting is a way of turning the odds in your favor, hence it defeats the whole purpose of the house. Almost every game in Vegas is designed to have favorable odds for the house, maybe all except poker in which the house just takes fee. Couting levels the playing field somewhat, and well.... did you expect the casinos to leave it like that?
A lot of bull... (Score:5, Informative)
On top of all that, most professional card counters use the greatest weapon of all to count cards. Their heads. So, all this will do is to put out the small time amateurs.
A friend of mine is a tech at a Casino in Detroit, and beleive me, any appropriately sized/layed out Casino is certainly not losing money, regardless of the people who play the game to earn a wage.
krystal_blade
Re:heh (Score:5, Informative)
Instead, they say the true value of the system is giving casinos an accurate way to rate and comp regular players, who get free rooms, meals, show tickets and the like in return for routinely dropping small fortunes at the casino. That's extremely important, the casinos say, because these days, loyal players demand to get something back.
Lone Wolf vs a Pack? (Score:5, Informative)
Stacked decks (Score:2, Informative)
Re:What's the need? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:At the risk of being modded down -1, Redundant. (Score:2, Informative)
What is Blackjack? [1blackjack...casino.com]
What is card counting? [casino-hangout.com]
Re:Card Counters (Score:4, Informative)
As far as "wayy more money than you win", blackjack basic strategy will have a player losing approximately $500 per $100,000 of bets. Craps pass line bets will have a player losing $1,300 per $100,000 of bets. (those figures are excluding short-term variance)
Casinos do want you to win some of the time, otherwise you won't go back.
Re:What's wrong with counting anyway...?!?! (Score:2, Informative)
Well, not exactly. The individual states where the casinos are make the ground rules for gambling (such as the Nevada Gaming Commission [state.nv.us]). Most states don't allow the casinos to stack the odds too much, as the article implies. I belive the house odds restrictions for Nevada are somewhere in the Nevada Gaming Regulations [state.nv.us]. But that's too much legalese for me to wade through.
But obviously, if the casinos use this technology to change the odds of the game, there will be a lot of upset counters out there. Even non-counters will be effected, as Blackjack is about the only game that occasionally has odds in the player's favor.
Re:Why track the players? (Score:3, Informative)
Actually, this varies from city to city. According to this article [wired.com], casinos in Atlantic City aren't allowed to bar people for counting cards.
Re:What's wrong with counting anyway...?!?! (Score:3, Informative)
Re:What's wrong with counting anyway...?!?! (Score:5, Informative)
I saw a guy sit down and hit 6 blackjacks in 10 hands. Of the remaining four hands he won two and lost two. He got up and walked and took his winnings with him. Noone gave him a second look - not the dealer, not the pit boss, not the casino manager - noone.
The truth is that all games are set up to the house's advantage. Some games are better for the player (Blackjack ~1% house advantage, Craps Odds bets - 0% house advantage) and some are *much* better for the house (Roulette - ~12% house advantage, Big Six wheel - up to 30% house advantage). In all cases, though, the house will take your money over a long run of time, how fast they take it depends on the game you play.
It is possible to get on a 'winning streak' where lady luck seems to be helping you out, and when that happens the smart thing to do is ride that streak until it ends and you lose a hand or two and then take your winnings and leave. It's that simple.
Winning streaks are few and far between, and the chances of you hitting a second streak before you give back all of your winnings (and more!) is very, very slim.
There are two ways to come away a winner in a casino - one is to follow the advice I list here (which you will find in any reputable book on betting strategies), the other is to get extraordinarly lucky and hit a huge payout in a slot machine. Either way, take your money and go. If you stay, you will give it back.
Re:What's wrong with counting anyway...?!?! (Score:1, Informative)
playing the don't you win when the house wins. but it doesn't give you anything extra.
a line bet with odds is the was to go. a point of 4 and 10 pays 2 to 1 5 and 9 pays 2 to 3 and 6 and 8 pays 5 to 6. but your flat bet pays even money once again.
you could "place" your bets 6 and 8 pays 6 to 7 5 and 9 pays 5 to 7 and 4 and 10 pay 5 to 9
i could go on and on about crap bets. there are far too many options in that game to cover here.
some times i miss the casino days... then i wake up nothing worse then being stuck on a game full of chain smoking fleas for 8 hours.
ill take my nice new IT job everytime! you cant read slashdot from the crap pit!
Re:They already do this (Score:2, Informative)
Re:What's wrong with counting anyway...?!?! (Score:2, Informative)
Quick course in card counting (Score:4, Informative)
Big cards are: 10, Jack, Queen, King, Ace Little cards are: 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 At the end of each hand keep a running total. For every little card think "Plus One". For every big card think "Minus one". So if a lot of little cards come out of the deck then the "running count" will go positive. If a lot of big cards come out of the deck then the "running count" will go negative.
Running count is not in itself a perfect indicator. It depends on how many decks of cards are still in the shoe. If you have a 6 deck shoe and it looks like there are about 4 decks left then divide your running count by 4. So if the running count is +8 and the number of decks in the shoe is roughly 4 then the actual count is 8/4=2. This is why you see dealers shuffling when the shoe is only half empty. A +10 with 5 decks is only a +2 actual count. A +10 with only 1 deck left in the shoe is a HUGE advantage.
How do you use the actual count? If the actual count is 0, 1 or negative then you bet the minimum amount. If the actual count is 2 or better then you multiply the minimum bet by that number. So if the minimum bet is $5 and the actual count is 2 then you bet $10. If the actual count is +4 then you bet $20.
ALL of this is also dependent upon you playing perfect basic strategy. If you have 15 and the dealer has a 4 showing what do you do? You need to know that strategy and play it perfectly every hand for card counting to give you any advantage at all.
There are many more systems that are more complex than this, but you have to trade off the increase in complexity with the increase in odds that benefit you. This basic Hi-Lo system will give you the most bang for your buck.
Re:What's wrong with counting anyway...?!?! (Score:2, Informative)
The problem with your idea is that the roulette wheel has the green spaces (typically two of them, 0 and 00). Those spaces steer the odds in the house's favor. Instead of a
The other problem with your system is you have table maximums. You might be playing at a table with a $5 minimum and $500 maximum, for example. That means you can only double your bet 6 times (10,20,40,80,160,320), and after that your system breaks down. You can no longer win back all of your losses in a single bet, and it's not that hard to flip a coin six or seven times and get heads every time.
Days of card counting are numbered ..... (Score:4, Informative)
It contiuously shuffled the multiple decks of cards inside it. After each hand, all the cards just went in the top.
Try counting that!
Re:What's wrong with counting anyway...?!?! (Score:2, Informative)
However, in Vegas they can bar you from playing in their casino for any reason. This is part of the gaming laws in Nevada. They don't need a good reason, and in there mind card counting is a fine reason. For the record, they will often let a suspected card counter stay besause most of them just think they know what they are doing but screw up enough that the odds arn't turned in their favour.
When you move on to Atlantic City, the rules there state that casino games must be games of chance. If card counting exists, and it can affect the odds, then blackjack would no longer be a game of chance. For this reason, they are very careful with card counters and want to ensure that a case involving them never goes to court. They won't kick card counters out of the casino, but what they will do is make the card counters play miserable (and ineffective) by doing things like shuffling after every hand.
I am not sure about other the rules in other places
PK
Re:What's wrong with counting anyway...?!?! (Score:3, Informative)