Carriers Might Profit From Cell Number Portability 184
Makarand writes "Carriers that are adding cell-number portability fees to your monthly
cell phone bills (while fighting against actually implementing the requirement) may actually rake in profits from these levies as the total amounts collected will be more than the projected costs of meeting the FCC's
number portability requirements. Although federal law requires that such fees be 'just and reasonable', it
does not require reporting of their actual expenses. Consumer advocates feel that
the number portability verification processes required are similar to those used by long-distance phone companies when a customer switches from one service provider to another and there is little reason to believe that expenses to meet portability requirements should vary widely among carriers and be so excessive as to bring profits for the carriers."
Portability in action (Score:5, Interesting)
Monthly fee? Strange ... (Score:3, Interesting)
Important Question (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Portability in action (Score:5, Interesting)
I stopped using my cell phone about a year ago when I realized that I could get by in life just fine without being on call 24x7. To be fair, before that I was running an ISP and *did* need to be on call but anyway...
I went about six months paying the bill on the thing, thinking that the next time I go on a business trip it'd come in handy. Last month I needed to go to Europe, so I figured no problem - I'll just go upgrade my plan and switch to the GSM phone. But could I just upgrade my plan, NO! They needed my social security number to run a new credit check, they insisted that I needed the model with a 4" color screen that played video games, and they said that even the base model would cost me $400 ust to get started. AND I'd have to sign a NEW two-year contract to get that special price. I just left my old phone on the counter and walked out. Called Xingular when I got back to the office and cancelled my service.
I will sign up fora cell phone again when I can get my choice of a flat monthly rate or a per-minute-only rate on a phone that works everywhere in the world with no long term contracts. And don't pull stupid shit like subsidizing the service with the price of the phone and vice versa. I don't insist that it be "dirt cheap". I know it costs $$$$ to build a world-wide cellular network, but there is a fair and reasonable way to charge for it and nobody's offering that.
Re:Side effects (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Portability in action (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Side effects (Score:4, Interesting)
And I don't have to sign up for plans that commit me to spending $[some_large_number] per month; just a flat rate per 30 seconds.
Re:Side effects (Score:5, Interesting)
Complain to your regulator and your competition authority. At least in Germany they have some serious teeth.
There is no technical reason whatsoever for the operators not to use ISDN call divert (or the equivalent mapping for this service in SS7 terms) as a mechanism for transfering the call to the new destination. In this case the only time when the call travels to the premises of the old operator is when it is set up. The actual voice (or data) should go directly to the new destination. There is no reason to charge you for the call set up only as for an entire call and there is no reason to route the call through the old operator network.
The fact that the phone operators in Europe do not use this on purpose (it has been in GSM since 1997) is already a part of an investigation by the European comission. More specifically, it is the investigation on unfair roaming charges.
So you are in you right to b*** and should do so. As a result of enough people b*** we may sooner or later get decent roaming charges for roaming mobile to roaming mobile calls so it may be a good idea to be persistent in this.
Re:Portability in action (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Portability in action (Score:3, Interesting)
It's the same situation in Denmark: basically no one charges when transferring your number from another provider, since they are desperate to get you to change. Couple that with 1 DKR per minute (~15 cents), no monthly fee and no contract that binds you.
Re:How soon will we run out of phone numbers again (Score:3, Interesting)
who needs a phone anyway (Score:1, Interesting)
Whats the deal with the keeping the phone number the same for your whole life! (well until we are all electronically tagged at birth in which case you dont have a choice). I like moving house, because it means I get to choose who has my number. It weeds out all those people (work bosses, annoying friends, marketing, etc) that someone managed to get hold of your phone number can no longer bug you.
Look at changing your phone number as exercising your right to privacy!
Sptint charges this fee already (Score:5, Interesting)
I called to let them know that I am dropping them for another carrier at the end of this month, and that I planned on taking my number with me...
They said, and this was a real gas, "We don't offer that service. You'll have to give up your phone numbers if you leave Sprint."
"But you're charging me for number portability!"
"I'm sorry, sir, but you won't be able to keep your numbers"
"Then why are you charging me for number portability"
"Sir, Federal regulations require that we charge the number portability fee"
"..."
I couldn't believe my ears..
Anyone else with Sprint heard the same story? I think that charging a fee for a service one can't utilize comes down to, oh I dunno, fraud...
Difference between Europe and US (Score:3, Interesting)
more importantly, thanks to the strict regultations, number portability gives an EXTREME amount of power to the users.
For example, if I ever feel that TMobile (my provider) is not performing as well as i expect, i simply threaten to ask for my PAC number (a number provided to port your number) and its suprising how far they will bend back to help you
Re:Portability in action (Score:2, Interesting)
All you need is a cheap GSM phone - $400 is way too much. You can buy them outright (unlocked - which is important) for under $150 (I paid $300 for a fancy one in Madrid last time I was there and my previous phone died on me).
Sprint customer service believes the world is flat (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:The cycle begins again? (Score:3, Interesting)
That being said, I have faith in human ingenuity. The folks that persuaded thousands of idiots to order penis enlargement pills should have little trouble working out an effective cell slam scam.
Re:How long will this last? (Score:3, Interesting)
A little known secret is that even if you signed up for pulse only, touch tone usually worked anyways. These days they'd actually have to do some work to block touch tone, rather than to enable it, as it is so pervasive.
I don't see a charge for touch tone dialing anymore though, so I am assuming this has been rolled into my ridiculous $25/month base service charge.
-josh
Re:The cycle begins again? (Score:3, Interesting)
> (CDMA?), seems to me they'd have to give the slamee a
> new phone.
Technologically, it's doable, but not as easily.
AT&T Wireless uses mostly D-AMPS IS-136, but they're trying to roll-out GSM into their markets because a) D-AMPS sux, and b) the data capabilities of D-AMPS sucks. Cingular is in the same boat as AT&T Wireless.
[Note that, as any anal-retentive RF Engineer will tell you, GSM and IS-136 D-AMPS are both TDMA (i.e., Time Division Multiplexed Access).]
Verizon Wireless, SprintPCS, and ALLTEL use IS-95 CDMA. So it is technologically conceivable that a consumer could get forcibly moved from AT&T Wireless/Cingular/Nextel once the GSM migration is complete. Ditto for Verizon Wireless/SprintPCS/ALLTEL.
The issue is generally the phones are the same, but internal settings in the phone must be changed to change carriers. This would have to be accomplished more than just moving the subscriber information from one service to another (like with long distance), but also reprogramming the settings on the phone.
Don't feel easy yet; cellular service providers have had what they call "Over the Air Programming" (OAP) for years now, so they could send the programming information over the radio control channel to change the phone's settings.
I wouldn't be surprised if as cellular technology continues to mature, users start to get spam short messaging service messages saying something like, "Reply to this message to improve your cellular phone service". If the user replies, they get moved to a new $2.99/minute rate plan with SleazyCell company.
Re:The cycle begins again? (Score:4, Interesting)
Another thing, AWS is switching to GSM because they can cram more calls into any given channel compared to D-AMPS. It wasn't about quality. There is arguably no difference in sound quality to the end user. It was capacity issue. (Remember the class action suit brought against them a few years back because they oversold service) And as for data, a few telecom equipment companies were working on a data solution for D-AMPS(comparable to GPRS) but stopped development when AWS annouced that they were switching to GSM back in 2000.
Re:How long will this last? (Score:3, Interesting)
Portability? Hah! (Score:3, Interesting)
I recently decided to switch from Verizon to Cavalier Telephone [cavtel.com], a local CLEC. It took me almost two months to complete the transition, including some two weeks where I had no inbound phone service, unless the caller was coming from Cavalier's network (i.e. 0.0001% of the universe). Sparing everyone the gory details, I had problems including:
I was told many times over that neither company had ever experienced such a painful switch; even so, the fact that such a disaster could happen at all tells me that companies aren't paying nearly the attention they should to number portability issues, considering the millions they're raking in from it.
# portability? We don't even havephone portability (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm amused by our friends across the pond feeling bad for Americans because they don't have number portability? But do our friends with the silly accents realise the sorry state the US is in when it comes to mobile telecom in general?
Let's begin. The carriers here have no concept of a SIM card. Most phones are CDMA and are firmware locked to the provider. There are only two GSM networks I know of, T-Mobile and AT&T. Tri-band phones from these places cost as much as a Yugo. In addition, AT&T "provider locks" their expensive tri-band phones to only work on AT&T, and will not unlock them, not even for a fee (AT&T, if you're reading this, there are places online that unlock your phones for $20 or less, so screw you). T-Mobile unlocks your phone within 72 hours of being on contract, which is decent, however. Oh but should you wish to get a newer mobile from them, you have to resign a 1-2 year contract...
Oh yes, the contracts! Wait til you hear about these! Everyone's on contract here, because it's too expensive not to be. So here's how it works. You have this allotted quantity of minutes you pay a fixed monthly fee for, then you pay exorbitant rates (40c+ a minute) if you use them up. These quantities are decent, for example, T-Mobile offers 600 minutes, free nights, free weekends, and 500 SMS for $43 (27 quid) without tax. Nice eh? Umm, no, little do you realize how backwards the billing schemes are here. For one thing, minutes from that "600" get deducted for every incoming call. Even SMS get deducted for every incoming SMS sometimes. And 1 second rounding? Try 1 minute rounding. And if you don't use all your minutes in a month? *poof*, gone. Cingular's trying rollover, but since they're not GSM, they don't count. Oh, and should you wish to add or remove the number of allotted minutes to your plan, you have to resign a 1-2 year contract, with a termination fee in the $100 or $200s.
So in short, who gives a crap about number portability? How about we get reasonable plans and GSM phones which take SIM cards, before we worry about switching providers and keeping our numbers? What would you rather do, keep your phone when you switch carrier, or keep your number when you switch carrier? Especially since a decent triband costs hundreds of dollars?
Re:Sptint charges this fee already (Score:2, Interesting)
We called to cancel the phone and Sprint said it would be $150.00 to get out of the contract. Well this phone has been turned on since 99 and about 6 months ago we contacted Sprint to add minuets to the plan... but they never said anything about a new contract. But now they inform us that whenever you change add/reduce minuets from your phone plan there is a mandatory 1 year contract - which they don't tell you about.
Well needless to say my parents are now on a mission and refuse to pay Sprint... I hope their credit doesn't get fucked up. They have canceled the 2 cell phones we had from them, went to T-Mobile and got cool new color phones for free with a good plan 1000 anytime min for the same price we were paying for 300 + free nights and weekend from sprint.