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New Kazaa Lite Protects Identity 668

Denver_80203 writes "Found this story about the new Kazaa K++ 2.4.0 and it's new sister program which claim to protect your identity while sharing files. Any of you folk know how legit this could be? We all knew it wouldn't be long... is this the war or just another battle?"
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New Kazaa Lite Protects Identity

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  • by Ice_Balrog ( 612682 ) <ice_balrog&netzero,net> on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @09:41AM (#6441979)
    I don't know if Kazaa K++ can hide your identity, but what I do know is this: Kazaa K++ is an excellent program. It is so much better than vanilla Kazaa. No ads, spyware, many cool features make it a great program.
  • How? (Score:5, Informative)

    by bazik ( 672335 ) <bazik&gentoo,org> on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @09:46AM (#6442042) Homepage Journal
    How can you hide your identify on a Peer2Peer system where other users get your IP when they connect to your machine to download stuff (for backup reason of course)?

    I doubt there is a way... netstat kills your privacy :P
  • by Entropy248 ( 588290 ) on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @09:46AM (#6442044) Journal
    The new versions contain several features designed to foil scanning attempts. PeerGuardian attempts to catalog a range of IP addresses used by or suspected to be used by labels, the Motion Picture Association of America, the Recording Industry Association of America, and other agencies. The database is built by contributions of individual users, although the methodology used to determine and verify the IP addresses is unclear.

    Stop trying to flood my P2P network...
    Now we have blacklisting and whitelisting (through Sig2DAT). Though both of these methods together would seem to defeat P2P "spammers", the easiest way for them to get around this might be to spam the whitelist. The next move in the P2P wars remains uncertain.
  • by SugoiMonkey ( 648879 ) on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @09:47AM (#6442060) Homepage Journal
    mldonkey is pretty good and has Fast Track (meaning Kazaa) support.
  • by Doctor7 ( 669966 ) on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @09:48AM (#6442073)
    It doesn't use a fixed list of IPs, it links in to a user-created database, so that shouldn't be a problem. Some of the other upgrades sound a bit less convenient. One is the ability to block people from requesting 'show all files from this user' - great for people with a directory full of infringing material, not so great for someone like me who's sharing fan music videos and wants anyone who downloads one to be able to see what else I've got - so if this feature isn't optional, I won't be upgrading.
  • by drgroove ( 631550 ) on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @09:49AM (#6442078)
    Limewire [limewire.com]

    Runs on anything, has a decent following, so there's a good chance the song/file/app you're looking for is available.
  • by Zocalo ( 252965 ) on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @09:51AM (#6442102) Homepage
    I don't know about and native Linux Kazaa client clones, but Kazaa runs just fine if you run it on Linux via the WINE emulation layer. Couple that with the Linux version of BitTorrent and a copy of WASTE and you have all your P2P client needs met.
  • by Karamchand ( 607798 ) on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @09:52AM (#6442107)
    It is optional. You can find the option in Options => Kazaa K++ Options => K++ Options => User's [sic!] can't get a list of all your shared files checkbox.
    HTH!
  • by Rysc ( 136391 ) <sorpigal@gmail.com> on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @09:54AM (#6442128) Homepage Journal
    Kazaa used to distribute kza, a linux curses app which was very basic but worked fairly well. Then they changed some stuff about the protocol, kza broke, and they've never released an updated version. At this point you're basically stuck with Wine, and last I knew installing Kazaa under Wine failed (you have to install under windows, and then run under wine).

    For a while there was giFT, an attempt at implimenting an open Fast Track client. But due to some of the same changes that broke kza, which were an attempt by the authors to keep out third party clients, giFT could no longer connect. giFT still exists as a fastrack-like open File Transfer network. They've not had an official release as far as I am aware, but you can grab CVS and a frontend and compile it without too much trouble. It works well, but the number of users is small (and will remain so until they actually do a release.)

    So basically, no. No alternative.
  • by gregmac ( 629064 ) on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @09:56AM (#6442150) Homepage
    do firewalls protect your IP identity or are they useless for that?

    No, firewalls just block connections in (or out) of your network. That said, if you're using NAT through a firewall with the rest of your office (not that you should be using kazaa at work...), then it can be tracked to your office, but not a specific user in the office.

  • by stinky wizzleteats ( 552063 ) on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @09:59AM (#6442181) Homepage Journal

    In other P2P networks. Freenet [sourceforge.net] and GNUnet [ovmj.org] both offer crypto and anonymity. Freenet isn't a P2P app in the pure sense. It's more of an underground www. GNUnet has better anonymity (theoretically - due to it's ability to resist traffic analysis attacks), but it is a younger project.

    When it's time to retreat from gnutella, these represent the next stage in the information war.

  • Re:Check out UDPP2P (Score:5, Informative)

    by stikves ( 127823 ) on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @10:00AM (#6442192) Homepage
    Please forgive me if I'm wrong, but UDPP2P does not seem to be "promising".

    I've checked the web site. It basically says "we broadcast all the queries and if someone has the file we meet each other by using secret codes hidden in those queries".

    A peer-to-peer network that does queries in terms of network-wide broadcast is always doomed to fail. Gnutalla failed (and was redesigned) the same way. Even Novell NetWare was unable to scale because of SAP (service advertising protocol).

    Nevertheless, the web site says "peers will somehow know each other". This is also a big problem in P2P networks. -- No design only big words.

    Anyways, if I were you, I'd use freenet [freenetproject.org]. It's anonymous, and it works much better than the scheme explained on the web site.
  • by Paddyish ( 612430 ) on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @10:01AM (#6442205)
    No. Results would still be returned from a general search. All this would do is disable the 'see more from same user' option which allows you to browse a single user's shared file collection.
  • by Dave2 Wickham ( 600202 ) on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @10:02AM (#6442214) Journal
    May I point you to giFT-FastTrack [berlios.de]?
  • Re:umm (Score:5, Informative)

    by DoorFrame ( 22108 ) on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @10:04AM (#6442232) Homepage
    Only law enforcement agencies can be accused of entrapment. There's no such thing for a non police corporation. They can entrap all they want. Remember, you're going to be going to civil, not criminal court.
  • by Gaijin42 ( 317411 ) on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @10:09AM (#6442276)
    Fair use applies to the user not the distributor. Therefore each person sending you the file is still in trouble, even though they only sent you a little bit. You the user are still in trouble, because you have the whole file, and therefore are exceeding fair use (probably.. fair use isn't really well defined)

  • by tufte ( 15392 ) on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @10:12AM (#6442302)
    The problem for you is that although you do not have a copy of the music, you are a contributory infringer because you assisted someone else in creating an unauthorized copy. See 17 U.S.C. sec 106 [findlaw.com], which gives the copyright owner the exclusive right "to authorize" another "to reproduce the copyrighted work". The language of the statute isn't precise, but think of it like aiding and abetting a crime.
  • by evilad ( 87480 ) on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @10:19AM (#6442382)
    My favorite is mldonkey [mldonkey.org], which hits a whole bunch of different networks, including FastTrack (which Kazaa uses). The gui is separate from the p2p application, so you can turn off your workstation but leave your downloads running on your server in the basement.

    I'm utterly impressed with it. Very easy to use, and I really like being able to hit all the differnt networks at once. It's also pretty cool having native guis available for linux AND windows.
  • by Doctor7 ( 669966 ) on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @10:32AM (#6442519)
    It would be really stupid of KaZaA (Sharman Networks) to do, yes. But they're not the ones doing it, KazaaLite and K++ are ripped and modified versions of the program done by individuals (although with all the modifications they're adding, they're getting to the point where even SCO would have trouble finding any code in common with the original ;-))

    What KaZaA did do was add the Participation Level, which basically improves your chances of downloading if you're sharing a lot of popular files. And in my opinion that was a modification which would encourage piracy.

  • by Doctor7 ( 669966 ) on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @10:35AM (#6442547)
    The recent versions of K++ (not sure about the basic KazaaLite) will let you jump supernodes, and keep hitting 'search more' until you run out of local supernodes. I'm finding it much easier to get matches on obscure stuff with these options.
  • by rosie_bhjp ( 40538 ) on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @10:41AM (#6442616) Homepage
    Then use spybot s&d [kolla.de]. I like it a bit better than AdAware and some spyware checks for and disables AdAware.
  • by ShineyNewSlashdotAcc ( 681011 ) on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @10:45AM (#6442654)
    It aint gonna work. The reason is simple : The rules have changed. Distribution of music is now much easier and cheaper than before and a large chunk of the old distribution network is *no longer necessary*. This is totally irrelavent as to weather or not this new distribution model is legal or not. It is happening. It probably cant be stopped(I mean the software industry tried and failed thru the 80s/early 90s)

    So now the RIAA have several choice.

    1. Try to roll back the technolgy that enables this new distribution channel. This is possible but not very likey.

    2. Use more draconian law enforment techniques. Posibble but I mean whata ya gonna do... start sending colleage kids to prison ? For what stealing a Brittney track ? Is this what we want ?

    3. Try to adapt to the new medium. Be creative and come up with new profit channels that take advantage of the medium.

    Personally I dont think 3 is very likely either... I think RIAA is going to have to be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century.
  • by Stonehand ( 71085 ) on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @11:02AM (#6442802) Homepage
    Regarding prohibition, Amendment XVIII only prohibited manufacture, sale, transportation, importation and exportation. Technically, consumption was NOT illegal. Unless you can find a similar loophole in copyright law... it's going to be mostly an issue of pragmatism (scaring off the sharers is both easier and more efficient than scaring off the downloaders).
  • by baggachipz ( 686602 ) on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @11:03AM (#6442809)
    Let's see... is freenet a good, safe alternative to current P2P apps? Let's consult the Freenet FAQ [freenetproject.org]:

    Is Freenet searchable?
    No search mechanism has yet been implemented.


    Bzzzzzt! Sorry, you lose. Try again!
  • by Scutter ( 18425 ) on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @11:06AM (#6442835) Journal
    it obviously only works on a punctual basis and not as a permanent protection.

    FWIW, Ad-Aware isn't supposed to work that way. It's on-demand only. If you want the on-access scanner (Ad-Watch), you have to actually pay the $20 for Ad-Adware Pro (which I highly recommend, by the way, as it works *great*). Oh, and just like your favorite anti-virus, you have to keep the signatures up to date.
  • Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @11:10AM (#6442873)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Protection is key... (Score:1, Informative)

    by XplosiveX ( 644740 ) on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @11:13AM (#6442891)
    Protecting your IP address while browsing the web is easy with programs such as Anonymizer which block your IP address. However using p2p programs anonymously is more difficult. P2P relies on people's ability to connect to your machine, and to do that they generally must know your IP Address.

    There are some methods out there that attempt to address this.

    Programs such as FreeNet have been around for some time that blocks the location of the traffic. However, there are easier methods than FreeNet out there to protect your identity.
  • by Gaijin42 ( 317411 ) on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @11:22AM (#6442988)
    The point is that you cant share ANY of the file under fair use. Its USING the file that is fair, not sharing it.

    And in the end, you have the whole file on your computer, which is clearly in violation.

    This is a dead end. Fight the battle in trying to establish real fair use laws, not in trying to find wierd loopholes that will just be easily closed
  • by HFXPro ( 581079 ) on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @11:24AM (#6443008)
    You will need to download the Objective Caml compiler from caml.inria.fr and the corresponding gtk library for use with OCaml (check the Readme for the exact version) if you wan to use MLDonkey. I suppose you could perhaps find a deb package if your using debs. The Debian community seems to have much better support of OCaml applications then the Redhat community. BTW, Objective Caml is a great language for anyone who wants to learn a functional language.
  • by aldousd666 ( 640240 ) on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @11:37AM (#6443138) Journal
    I was going to mod you down, but instead I'll be informative. Spyware can be detected by checking the network connections, and/or sniffing packets. I'm sure somewhere out there (people who work for kolla.de or lavasoft) people are already doing this. You can't hide spyware from a hacker. If you don't know anything about what I'm saying, try netstat -a at a command prompt (dos) you can see your incoming/outgoing connections. If you do it with Cydoor enabled kazaa, you'll notice some shifty odd IP addresses, which you can investigate further by jumping on a linux box and 'dig'-ing for the source, or nslookup them on you windows box (far less complete) to see who is connected to you. Some programs may hide spyware in the connection to their servers, which would be the way that it would have to in the new Kazaa in order to appear spyware free, but the guys with the packet sniffers would eventually dig this out as well. If they say it's spyware free, they'd better not be lying, becasue they will eventually be exposed.
  • Re:K++ edition (Score:4, Informative)

    by ncc74656 ( 45571 ) <scott@alfter.us> on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @11:45AM (#6443234) Homepage Journal
    The article said K++ and K-Lite are integrated with the PeerGuardian database. That's a list of IPs from which to refuse traffic. You can get the plaintext list here [simplyclick.org] and run it through a converter here [bluetack.co.uk] that converts the list into a script full of iptables commands to cut off the ??AA at your firewall, so they won't even get through to whatever filesharing software you're running.
  • by *weasel ( 174362 ) on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @12:06PM (#6443458)
    the RIAA exists because traditionally it has been very expensive to break into the music business.
    now that the wall is being torn down, the RIAA is going out of its way to try to ensure its relevancy. (payola, tighter distribution contracts with artists, destroying the credibility of digital distribution, etc) it sucks - but it's all legal.

    all that aside this is about theft. downloading mp3s for material you haven't paid for -is- theft. whether it -should-be- or not is debatable. but under the law, it is. bummer.

    so this little arms race may be between the good intentioned hackers vs the big bad corporation - but legally it's just pirates against copyright holders.

    the fault -doesnt- lie with the consumer, it lies with the pirate. if you've noticed, not even the RIAA is saying 'p2p is bad' anymore. the specific practice of illegal distribution of music is what they're fighting now.

    they logistically can't (and don't even try to) sue -you- for downloading. it's not obvious from the information available within a p2p app whether or not you are downloading a song you have fair use rights to (if i own nevermind, i can legally download the mp3s for that album) - and it would be financially prohibitive to even try to figure that out.

    -however-, sharing the files is absolutely illegal. the RIAA -owns- the distribution rights for signed artists, and you are infringing on their copyrights by pirating that right.

    sure, maybe some day the artists will wise up - but until then, you -are- breaking the law. get used to it, get an ipod, or uninstall kazaa. check your justifications at the door.

    and whether or not p2p affects CD sales is irrelevant. discussing that is like trying to justify theft from a profitable business because they're still profitable despite the theft. sure - it's a neat little communistic self-delusion - but it's still theft under our laws.

  • Re:Wasted effort (Score:3, Informative)

    by Quill_28 ( 553921 ) on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @12:10PM (#6443487) Journal
    Why father purchased records when he was younger, I like to listen to them. He has given them to me.

    I no longer have a record player and even if I did I would prefer to listen to them on my computer. I download "The Great Pretender" off Kazaa.
    I purchased a cd, my daughter then played ruined it(my fault shouldn't have left it out). I then downloaded the cd of Kazaa, created a new cd.

    I believe in the above two examples I have broken the law. The RIAA would like to see me hang i guess.

    Do most people steal on kazaa? oh yes, but in the above cases what other good options do I have?

    The RIAA says that I should take better care of my cd. I say I already paid the royalties for the cd, why should I have to pay them again?
    They leave no alternative other than buying a new cd. Ain't gonna happen.

    btw, I do have a JOB, a wife and two kids. I have lways had a JOB, since high school and during college and now.

    The RIAA lumps people like me(doing the above) with people who download and then burn cd after cd without ever paying for them.

  • by DeathPenguin ( 449875 ) * on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @12:27PM (#6443660)
    The RIAA could engineer a p2p app that didn't require that sort of image and continue the automated scanning process.

    You would need a new client, you'd need a new protocol.
  • by el_gordo101 ( 643167 ) on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @12:30PM (#6443696)
    Most of the online retailers use Muze (http://www.muze.com) for their online music samples as well as for editorial content regarding music and books. I have seen their operation and it is very impressive. They have terrabytes of data regarding music and books.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @12:41PM (#6443798)
    No, thats wrong.

    Simply get the binaries pre-compiled for your platform, sire. [mldonkey.net]

    Alternatively get them here [berlios.de].
  • Re:Score one for us? (Score:3, Informative)

    by Cipster ( 623378 ) on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @02:04PM (#6444550)
    You should take a look around some of the forums at the .torrent sites. People have been getting e-mails from their ISP's because Universal looged their IP while downloading the leaked version of The Hulk.
  • by wirelessbuzzers ( 552513 ) on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @02:07PM (#6444572)
    Actually, the folks at UDPP2P had an interesting idea in this regard. The client negotiates through the search network to find a server, but doesn't gets that server's IP. The server sends the data via forged UDP packets, encrypted, with some extra code to correct for out-of-order and dropped packets.

    I think there was a paper on /. a while ago about a similar method of sending data; you take a big, not quite square matrix M and multiplied the data file by it, getting a bunch of rows; you send these rows along with row IDs; once the receiver has enough of these rows, he can construct (using the row IDs) the inverse of the submatrix of M that spawned them, and derive the original message, even if the rest were dropped or corrupted. VanderMonde matrices work for this, although I imagine there's a sparser solution.

    Of course, your ISP/firewall wouldn't necessarily be happy about sending out all those fake UDPs, and many university networks throttle them. Also, the ..AA can still set up a fake server which logs you, since the server knows the client's IP, unless you proxy, which would cost in bandwidth. Or, you could send it to someone on the receiver's subnet and let them sniff, which wouldn't entirely give away their location.

    Perhaps one should point out that this is practically a new internet protocol, requiring root access and stuff... it might be better for them just to use IPSec with address hiding.
  • by drinkypoo ( 153816 ) <drink@hyperlogos.org> on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @02:46PM (#6444946) Homepage Journal
    If I lock my door on my house, you can still easily get in. That doesn't mean me not locking (or forgetting to lock) the door is inviting you to come in.

    The law does see a difference between locked and unlocked doors. Entering an unlocked door without permission (or reasonable assumption thereof, such as a place of business' front door) is trespassing. Defeating a lock and entering is breaking and entering.

  • by tomtomtom ( 580791 ) on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @02:59PM (#6445095)

    This is a really good idea. You can extend it to make it even better though.

    Part of the good thing about the erasure-correcting code approach is that if you use a big enough very low-rate code (although its quite tricky to do that with good CPU and memory efficiency) then you can have downloading from several servers concurrently without having to tell each server which parts of the files you want (just send random parts of the encoded data and theres a low chance of overlap from multiple servers).

    Now, here's the clever part: you use IP Multicast with multiple sources spoofing the same sender address. This means that (a) you save quite a lot on bandwidth since many P2P clients will be downloading the same source file (this is important since a big reason many ISPs and Universities have banned P2P is the bandwidth); and (b) it is MUCH harder (not impossible, but hard enough if you are not an ISP or a router at the very end) to find out who either the source or the destination is.

    I don't know if anyone has thought of this idea and tried to implement it. Someone should; maybe I'll give it a go when I have time.

    PS. There is a sparser and more CPU-efficient solution than VanderMonde matrices, look for Low-Density Parity Check codes.

  • by zcat_NZ ( 267672 ) <zcat@wired.net.nz> on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @03:14PM (#6445277) Homepage
    How can you fake your IP address?

    Apparently; like this.

    You search for a file, get replies via the net telling you who (by nickname, not IP) has it, and send a request back via the net to download the file, along with your IP and probably bandwidth. At this point you haven't been told the IP of the machine that has the file.

    So now the sending machine starts sending you the file as bunches of spoofed UDP packets, with a healthy measure of error-correction built in so you won't need to re-request any missing packets. You still don't know the sending machine's IP.

    What I'd like to know is;
    I request a file and several people have it. Then I let them all know that my IP address is "grc.com" and that I have practically unlimited bandwidth. Lots of hosts begin sending spoofed UDP packets at grc.com with no valid return address.
    Repeat until grc.com vanishes under all the traffic..

    I hope somewhere in the protocol they verify that the address they're sending stuff to is actually the one making the requests for it.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @03:14PM (#6445287)
    Google for "ubernet". That's all I can say.
  • by Jhan ( 542783 ) on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @03:22PM (#6445368) Homepage

    The way i read UDPP2P's docs it was basically a three stage process:

    • Request (forged IP, random rendez-vous number).
    • Offer (forged IP, random randez-vous #, broadcasted to all neighbors and tagged by "Request" r-v #).
    • Accept. (broadcast actual IP, tagged by "Offer" r-v #).

    Demi-ingenious, the provider now knows the requesters IP but not vice-versa.

    The provider proceeds to send the file to the requester as an unsorted bunch of UDP packages. There is no way to communicate with the server, so you just have to drink from the fire-hose. And of course UDP packets aren't guaranteed to be error free... Oh, and good routers will just throw away all the spoofed packages. <sarcasm>This could really work!</sarcasm>

  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @06:19PM (#6447425)
    I've tried to follow up with a description of specific
    design features for a P2P client using encryption, but
    I keep getting blocked by some /. posting filters. (It's
    the code snippets that cause the problems.) I'll
    write this up and circulate it on a newsgroup, perhaps
    sci.crypt or one of the usual places. Slashdot is a good
    place for quick points, but it's not like a blog that facilitates
    discussions.
  • License Agreement (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 15, 2003 @07:48PM (#6448190)
    As I was reading the License Agreement for the aforementioned software (yes, I read them) I felt I should point out section 2.4 - "...You agree not to use this Software to: ...Forge headers or otherwise manipulate identifiers in order to disguise the origin of any data transmitted to other users..."

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