Catch up on stories from the past week (and beyond) at the Slashdot story archive

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×
Software Your Rights Online

Freenet Creator Debates RIAA 806

smd4985 writes "Over at CNET News.com, there's a good coverage of a debate between Ian Clarke of Freenet and Matt Oppenheim of the RIAA." In discussing whether it's "legal and moral to create and use Freenet", which is "a radically decentralized network of file-sharing nodes tied together with strong encryption", the RIAA's Oppenheim suggests: "Other than the fact that most infringers do not like to use Freenet because it is too clunky for them to get their quick hit of free music, it is no more of a threat than any of the popular P2P services."
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Freenet Creator Debates RIAA

Comments Filter:
  • by Surak ( 18578 ) * <surakNO@SPAMmailblocks.com> on Monday July 07, 2003 @02:50PM (#6384556) Homepage Journal
    Other than the fact that most infringers do not like to use Freenet because it is too clunky for them to get their quick hit of free music, it is no more of a threat than any of the popular P2P services.

    Really, Mr. Oppenheim? I don't think you understand exactly *how well* Freenet preserves anonymity. It is *impossible* to tell where any given file is coming from over Freenet, due to the fact that data is scattered and encyrpted across the network.

    With Freenet, you *can't* go after filesharers, because you don't know who the filesharers are? What are you going to to do? Take every single freenet node to court?

    You'd most certainly lose that battle, Mr. Oppenheim. Just like the courts ruled that Kazaa could not be taken down because it has legimitate, uses, so to does this apply to Freenet.

    And if you succeed in scaring people off the gnutella and kazaa, this is just where the hard core will turn: Freenet and distributed systems like it.

    Give it up, Mr. Oppenheim. Your days of controlling music distribution are numbered.

    We, the citizens of the Internet, will prevail.

  • Re:Shady dealings (Score:5, Informative)

    by guacamolefoo ( 577448 ) on Monday July 07, 2003 @02:51PM (#6384560) Homepage Journal
    Well that's still not a perfect analogy. For example, if the company added a feature to the ski mask that made it harder to pull off, and advertised this feature for use in bank robberies, they'd probably be held liable for its use in a robbery. Or if they didn't advertise it, but did know that the new feature's overwhelming use would be in bank robberies, then they might also be liable.

    I doubt it. An anlagous case involving the Tec-9 gun (hard to get fingerprints from and some other features which were allegedly used to promote sales to questionable people) was tossed:

    CBS News - Gun Lawsuit Misses Target [cbsnews.com]

    GF.

  • by angle_slam ( 623817 ) on Monday July 07, 2003 @02:56PM (#6384610)
    No. You buy a disc that contains music. There is no license except those that come from the copyright laws.
  • From the article (Score:1, Informative)

    by Khakionion ( 544166 ) on Monday July 07, 2003 @02:59PM (#6384634)
    How does this have anything to do with corporations? This has to do with artists and creators. Artists and creators, like anybody else who creates something, should have the right to sell what they create

    Corporations are getting filthy rich from the artists' will to express themselves. Remember that Napster's website spewed random quotes from popular artists who not only thought that music file-sharing was a great idea, but it helped the artists, rather than hinder them.
  • by ivan256 ( 17499 ) * on Monday July 07, 2003 @03:00PM (#6384647)
    This doesn't apply to material that requires a license. If you have the material, and you don't have a license, you have broken the fucking law. In the case of music, if you have the mp3's, and you don't have the CD or tape or whatever media you bought it on, chances are you pirated it.

    Your use of the word "fucking" doesn't make your point any more relevant. Why should the RIAA get to demand proof that you've paid them whenever they desire, but the clothing store not be granted the same right? If they catch you sharing files, obviously you're breaking the law and they should go after you. Other than that the only thing they should be allowed to do is to go crying to their mommies. They should have the same rights as everybody else, and that's it.
  • by Mr. Slippery ( 47854 ) <.tms. .at. .infamous.net.> on Monday July 07, 2003 @03:05PM (#6384676) Homepage
    This doesn't apply to material that requires a license. If you have the material, and you don't have a license, you have broken the fucking law.

    The bogus concept of software EULAs has confused you.

    Copyright has nothing to do with a "licence" to own or use a copy of a work. Copyright involves a licence to copy a work - a right to copy, thus the name.

    When there's no copying involved, there is no copyright issue. There's no copying and no licence involved when you purchase a CD from your local record store. (Software EULAs are based on the ridiculous notion that loading a program into memory is "copying". I don't think this has ever been upheld.)

  • by TheConfusedOne ( 442158 ) <the.confused.one ... l.com minus city> on Monday July 07, 2003 @03:23PM (#6384838) Journal
    The IRS asks you to provide receipts as proof of deductions or claims that you are making to change your tax liability.

    They could care less what you are buying or if you bought it or not, they only care when you are claiming it towards your taxes.

    They can use a visual inspection of your home as an attempt to prove that you may be underdeclaring your income (say you report an income of $25,000/year but have two Ferrari's in your front driveway that are registered in your name) but they can't simply order you to produce a receipt on any old purchase that you may have made.

    DRM does NOT protect copyrights. DRM protects copy restrictions. Why? Well look at CSS as the case of DRM-light. It keeps the normal person from viewing out-of-region material or using non-approved viewers. It doesn't do a thing to stop the technically savvy copier/user.
  • by usotsuki ( 530037 ) on Monday July 07, 2003 @03:28PM (#6384874) Homepage
    My best friend is black and has no problem with me saying "fo' shizzo ma' nizzo". "Nizzo" removes the implication of "n*****", that's what two different black people have told me. Besides, "nizzo" is short for a special Ebonics derivation of the N word which has a totally different implication, one of solidarity more than bigotry.

    -uso.
  • by miketang16 ( 585602 ) on Monday July 07, 2003 @03:33PM (#6384939) Journal
    As for political speech, it also makes no sense. How would anyone search for political speech on a P2P network? Would you look for "democratic ideals as they pertained to the Bush tax cut"? For people that want to distribute political speech online, there are plenty of Usenet groups and chat rooms for them to use. The facts here simply do not support the theory that these networks are being used for "general purposes."

    Ah I can tell someone has never used Freenet. The majority of content in Freenet is not really searchable, it's more of a blog-based environment. Freenet won't even release a tool to search it. A 3rd party had to. I think Matt has been using a bit too much KazAa if he thinks every P2P network has a little search bar on the side, with options for Audio and Video...
  • by angle_slam ( 623817 ) on Monday July 07, 2003 @03:35PM (#6384967)
    Even Microsoft has a replacement media program. If your disks are damaged in some way and unusable you can send them to Redmond and they'll ship you another copy.

    But that's because you are buying a license when you buy software. You can read the terms of the license and decide whether or not you agree with the license. With CDs, there is no license. You buy a CD and you receive the contents of the CD. You have fair use rights to create personal copies, but are otherwise limited in your ability to distribute, perform publicly, create derivative works, and copy. The limitations are in the copyright statutes.

  • Incorrect... (Score:3, Informative)

    by ShaunDon ( 589695 ) on Monday July 07, 2003 @04:25PM (#6385484) Homepage
    Actually dude, you are wrong. I happened to be at a church one day to see a presentation by one of their representatives, and the Gideons very much encourage you to take Bibles from hotels if you're so inclined. They consider that spreading the word. Oh wait, it's probably the Word, no? In any event, while it doesn't specifically say that you're free to take them, that is the intent of the Gideons if you are so moved by the Word. ShaunDon
  • Re:Shady dealings (Score:3, Informative)

    by prockcore ( 543967 ) on Monday July 07, 2003 @04:42PM (#6385707)
    I doubt it. An anlagous case involving the Tec-9 gun (hard to get fingerprints from and some other features which were allegedly used to promote sales to questionable people) was tossed:

    I remember that case. One of the things that is *rarely* mentioned in all the coverage is that selling a gun as "fingerprint resistant" is viable. Fingerprints on guns cause rust. A fingerprint resistant gun is less prone to rusting than other guns.
  • by Doc Hopper ( 59070 ) on Monday July 07, 2003 @05:15PM (#6386034) Homepage Journal
    Copyright infringement is not theft unless it's on a large scale. If I recall correctly, "large" is defined as $6,000 or more.

    It is a tort, and it is copyright infringement -- not theft, and not going to result in jail time or anything other than civil penalties. Of course, if you're sharing a file to the whole world, they could easily claim >$6,000 in damages.

    Unfortunately, the RI/MPAA intentionally wish to blur the lines, because fear of prosecution helps prevent copyright infringement. But making copies of copyrighted works doesn't make you a thief or a criminal -- it makes you an infringer.

    This is similar to how speeding doesn't make you a federal fugitive, or taking a piss in the bushes doesn't make you an arsonist.
  • by FuzzyBad-Mofo ( 184327 ) <fuzzybad@nOSPAm.gmail.com> on Monday July 07, 2003 @08:10PM (#6387346)

    Ever do your girl-friend in the poop-shoot? BAM! you just broke the law.

    Actually, that's legal now in every state. (Assuming you live in the US)

  • by Alsee ( 515537 ) on Monday July 07, 2003 @09:24PM (#6387815) Homepage
    But you DONT buy music. You buy a license to use it.

    Nonsense. There is no such thing as a licence to use. If you buy a CD there is no license of any sort involved. It is a plain old sale of an object, and you have the right to stick that object in a CD player and listen to it all you like.

    US legal code TITLE 17 > CHAPTER 1 > Sec. 106. - Exclusive rights in copyrighted works

    The owner of copyright under this title has the exclusive rights to do and to authorize any of the following: [cornell.edu]
    (1) to reproduce the copyrighted work in copies or phonorecords;
    (2) to prepare derivative works based upon the copyrighted work;
    (3) to distribute copies or phonorecords of the copyrighted work to the public by sale or other transfer of ownership, or by rental, lease, or lending;
    (4) in the case of literary, musical, dramatic, and choreographic works, pantomimes, and motion pictures and other audiovisual works, to perform the copyrighted work publicly;
    (5) in the case of literary, musical, dramatic, and choreographic works, pantomimes, and pictorial, graphic, or sculptural works, including the individual images of a motion picture or other audiovisual work, to display the copyrighted work publicly; and
    (6) in the case of sound recordings, to perform the copyrighted work publicly by means of a digital audio transmission

    Those are the ONLY exclusive rights a copyright holder has. They are therefore the only rights he has to license to someone. Without the grant of one or more of those rights (above and beyond existing fair use rights) a license does not exist. Basic contract law - a contract does not exist if they do not give you something of value. And those 6 rights are the only thing a copyright holder has to offer,

    -

If you want to put yourself on the map, publish your own map.

Working...