Microsoft Patenting IM Translation? 446
theodp writes "The USPTO just published Microsoft's patent application for a Method and system for translating instant messages, in which the software giant demonstrates how an English-speaking sender can type 'Hi' in an IM and it will be translated to 'Hola' for a Spanish-speaking recipient."
A couple thoughts (Score:5, Insightful)
1. This patent is described as setting forth "A method and system translating instant messages between users who communicate in different languages"
Notice that it's only one method being patented; there's nothing stopping me from coming up with my own method. This is not a good patent, but there are worse (one-click shopping comes to mind).
2. This patent, if worded a bit differently, could set forth a way to transparently translate between the native languages of devices, not users, which would perhaps be a more interesting patent considering IPv6, pervasive intercommunication between devices, et cetera; did Microsoft drop the ball on this one?
Re:A couple thoughts (Score:2, Insightful)
A content translation module implemented as a computer-executable module (e.g., DLL, exe) utilizes the information contained in the user profile to translate messages from the source language to the destination language. The translated message is then transmitted to the destination device. Because the message is translated prior to delivery, the destination device receives the message according to the destination language.
In other wo
Re:A couple thoughts (Score:2, Funny)
Re:A couple thoughts (Score:3, Funny)
Sweet, God can claim prior art! Who'da thunkit.
Re:A couple thoughts (Score:4, Insightful)
Well, I have worked with database systems where the language of the screen displays is selected based on a user profile: the screens are transmitted already translated to the client (admittedly not on the fly translation). I have also used a little known service called Google that uses preferences to decide which language I normally work with and to offer translations from other languages to this language. This translation is also done prior to delivery to the client.
On the other hand, Microsoft may be the first vendor to translate messages in a specific manner for a particular kind of messenger service.
The situation with software patents is becoming totally bizarre. Actually, I almost wonder if someone in the patent office is trying to help point up the absurdity to a degree where the need for changes in the law will become obvious even to the US Congress.
I have prior art. (Score:3, Funny)
#This program converts English to a different language
#Pipe shutdown announcements for it to keep the
#slow witted among users from saving their files.
#
#by: Travis Goodspeed, aka SHEENmaster
pig|wall
Re:A couple thoughts (Score:5, Funny)
They're probably out to launch some kind of "We're so much better than AOL campaign and wanted to make sure that this bullet point on their list of features could be unique to them.
The fact that they did it poorly is unsurprising.
Given the way babel fish treats documents with whole paragraphs worth of context, It's hard to imagine that IM language translation is going to be remotely useful.
Claude: Hi, Ivan, that vaccuum cleaner you left is on the fritz again, it doesn't suck.
Brrrring! You have a new translated message from: buddy_claude "Hello, I use recreational vehicles. The space you left was cleansed by Fritz repeatedly. It is great.
Re:A couple thoughts (Score:2, Interesting)
I just tried this with the fish... (Score:4, Funny)
Hi, Ivan, that vaccuum cleaner you left is on the fritz again, it doesn't suck
English to Spanish....
Hi, Ivan, ese limpiador del vaccuum que usted dejó
está en el fritz otra vez, él no aspira.
Spanish back to English...
Hi, Ivan, that cleaner of the vaccuum that you left you are in the Fritz again, he does not aspire.
Close but not quite...
Microsoft will have it hands full.
Sean D.
some more translations (Score:5, Funny)
we are as insecure as hell can be.
automatic windowsupdate-
we don't need anymore embarassments.
US legal system-
we gotta check which pocket it is in.
We are optimistic about china-
Bill will not be alive to see MS china turn a profit.
aids program africa-
You will be given 60 million $. 40 million will come
back to the US in inflated drug profits.
windows eula-
you've handed your ass to us on a gold plate.
xbox-
we gotta blow that 40 billion somewhere ya know.
pocket pc -
Its just happy to see you.
WindowsME-
We got that one done by monkeys. The ones who rivalled
Shakespeare. Our real engineers were trying to figure out
if their muffins were y2k compliant.
Microsoft Test Labs-
Have you rebooted your toaster today?
Hotmail-
We haven't gotten to the bottom yet. But we're getting there
Outlook Express-
Your gateway to the wonderful world of viruses.
Clippy-
The result of years of hard research at our lame labs.
Apple-
Our *real* research labs.
Fun with Babelfish... (Score:5, Funny)
English-French-English:
Hello, Ivan, this pickling solution of vaccuum that you left is on fritz still, it does not suck.
English-Portugese-English:
Hi, Ivan, this liquid of cleanness that of vaccuum you left is in fritz another time, it does not suck.
However, with the correct spelling og "vacuum", something still gets lost in the translation, especially if you use more than one step:
English-French-German-English:
Good day, Iwan, this vacuum cleaner, which you left, is not still on Fritz, it sucks.
and my personal favorite,
English-German-French-English:
Hallo, is not again of Ivan, this vacuum cleaner which you left, on Fritz, sucks to him.
Re:I just tried this with the fish... (Score:3, Insightful)
-1 clueless (Score:5, Insightful)
A method and system for placing an order to purchase an item via the Internet. The order is placed by a purchaser at a client system and received by a server system. The server system receives purchaser information including identification of the purchaser, payment information, and shipment information from the client system. The server system then assigns a client identifier to the client system and associates the assigned client identifier with the received purchaser information.
The important part is the CLAIMS, not the abstract. The first claim from the Microsoft translation patent:
1. A method for translating instant messages exchanged between two or more devices over a network by one or more users that communicate in different languages, the method comprising: establishing a user profile indicating at least one user language and one or more translation preferences of the one or more users; receiving a message as input composed by at least one of the users according to the user language; translating the message from the user language to at least one different language corresponding to the one or more translation preferences; and transmitting the message in translated form to at least one of the two or more devices.
This seems to cover pretty much all practical IM autotranslation schemes, if this claim is granted.
Translation between protocol suites is a very different problem and Microsoft and others already have plenty of IP there, which is why things are worded the way they are. I don't think anyone dropped the ball-- this is a very broad, desirable patent if granted.
Re:-1 clueless (Score:3, Informative)
hum (Score:5, Insightful)
A method for translating instant messages exchanged between two or more devices over a network by one or more users that communicate in different languages, the method comprising: establishing a user profile indicating at least one user language and one or more translation preferences of the one or more users; receiving a message as input composed by at least one of the users according to the user language; translating the message from the user language to at least one different language corresponding to the one or more translation preferences; and transmitting the message in translated form to at least one of the two or more devices.
Thus if you only change one of these parts you have successfully circumvented the patent. Long claims like these ones may seem powerful, but in fact the opposite is true. Generally it is the short ones that have the biggest coverage.
One thing that comes to mind is that the message must be transmitted in translated form. If you transmit it first with a language tag and have the other user translate it then you are OK. And since that solution has now been discussed in a public forum it can never be patented.
Tor
Claim #13 (Score:4, Insightful)
13. A system for providing real-time communication over a network between two or more devices to support multiple languages, the system comprising: at least one source device coupled to the network for transmitting a message composed according to a source language; a content translation module having instructions for translating the message into a destination language; and at least one destination device coupled to the network for receiving the message from the content translation module.
This seems to cover any IM system where the translation is done on the server and then re-transmitted to the recipient. It doesn't require that the system have profiles, preferences, etc.
Hopefully this claim will be thrown out as overly broad, but knowing the USPTO it won't be. I know from experience: my name is on a fairly broad patent covering "web-bug" images. Fortunately it's owned by IBM and they're not enforcing it. I got a nice bonus for filing it back in 1996 or so. :-)
Laura
Re:A couple thoughts (Score:2)
Re:A couple thoughts (Score:2)
Nope, should have patented it yourself.
Prior art? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Prior art? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Prior art? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Prior art? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Prior art? (Score:3, Insightful)
Very true indeed. (Score:4, Troll)
Some early results can be seen in the GameCube/DreamCast title "Phantasy Star Online" where you can select from a menu of sentence patterns, subjects, objects, etc. We're trying to get it to the point where you can translate free text, without the awkward results that stuff like Babelfish, et al. yield, maybe augmented by a player-aided cache of words and phrases, with improved using in-game human feedback and machine learning.
I am really looking forward to the time where international players freely interact -- it will be an interesting sociology experiement to see how national and cultural means, norms and paradigms manifest themselves in a virtual world.
Re:Prior art? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Prior art? (Score:5, Insightful)
This is why we need to change the system so that patents are published upon submission. The public can submit comments and prior art to the patent office and they can act more as administrators, like they are doing now. If a company doesn't want to risk giving up trade secrets in failed submissions, then they will only submit material that is worthy of a patent.
Re:Prior art? (Score:3, Insightful)
In this case, the application has been published and this patent is likely two to three years away from approval (if ever). Of course this is only a voluntary process right now - and I wonder why MS has chosen this path - perhaps this is really just a "marketing patent" as someone else sur
those examples dont pertain. read the patent (Score:5, Insightful)
this pending patent covers their particular modular translation service, residing at a user-preference-designated network address (whether it be one device or a plurality of devices).
furthermore - the method states that a message comes from a sender, through the communication server directly to a recipient (no translation whatsoever to this point). the recipient's machine then automatically sends a translation request to the translation server specified in their stored preferences, and the result of that translation request is displayed.
the uniqueness of this system is that someone could set their preferences to point at a 3rd party translation service that perhaps gives better results than the stock german->japanese translation widget that MS might provide. the server passing along the traffic can remain willfully ignorant of any possible translation issues and keeps complexity of its logic down.
you may maintain this is a 'Bad Patent'(tm), and indeed babelfish is curiously close in function and it's use in procedure, to this patent.
in UO/PSO/etc the server handles translation without automatic user request.
therefore, those 'prior art' examples are not relevant.
remember, it's -procedure- and -method- that are patentable. not -functionality-.
you CAN'T patent 'translation' (and this patent isn't trying to). you CAN patent a non-obvious implimentation of it.
There is still prior art to this. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:those examples dont pertain. read the patent (Score:3, Insightful)
(Henry Petroski has amply described this in The Evolution of Useful Things [amazon.com].)
Bite the wax tadpole (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Bite the wax tadpole (Score:4, Funny)
My irc 'pals' have made me a verb to stand for typos.
Re:Bite the wax tadpole (Score:3, Funny)
I am so sad, I could not resist
Re:Bite the wax tadpole (Score:2)
What do you want to say today? (Score:5, Funny)
User one types: "I use Linux, how about you?"
.....translater.....
User two's screen: "I am a communist with viral ideas towards intellectual property"
User one types: "Have you heard about Microsoft's monopoly and their under-handed business tactics?"
....translater....
User two's screen: "Have you heard about how Microsoft's masterful innovation in information technology has made it the industry leader?"
Or if Stallman coded such a utility/library:
User one types: "I want some pizza"
.....translater.....
User two's screen: "I (as in "self") want (as in "desire") some GNU\Pizza"
Re:What do you want to say today? (Score:5, Funny)
And it better be free!
Re:What do you want to say today? (Score:2)
Re:What do you want to say today? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:What do you want to say today? (Score:2)
OMG!11!! (Score:4, Funny)
Sorry, prior art: (Score:3, Funny)
psxndc
Is there prior art? (Score:5, Interesting)
This patent sounds like a strategic business move though and something that nobody else is doing...
Re:Is there prior art? (Score:2, Informative)
Language translation filters were written for it more than a year ago, at least.
Cool! (Score:3, Interesting)
Cool (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Cool (Score:3, Insightful)
Hehe, I don't know why this isn't modded up, it fits in perfectly with the discussion. Maybe the mods just don't "get it."
Code! (Score:5, Funny)
Heres the code!
Can't see it working to well, babelfish has a hard enough job dealing with... generally.. well written websites. How will it handle, "how u 2 day?"?
(Sorry for the bad code... its been a while...)
Re:Code! (Score:3, Funny)
str de vuelta; }
Re:Code! (Score:2, Funny)
1337? (Score:5, Funny)
Me: Haha, I just beat you at CS!
Translation: 0w|\|d j00! C$ p053r!
Re:1337? (Score:5, Informative)
Imagine the fun with bad translations.. (Score:2, Funny)
sweet! (Score:4, Funny)
Linux user sends: Linux rocks!
..
MS' IM translation magic
..
Joe Lunchbucket gets: http://www.goatse.cx
emoticons (Score:3, Interesting)
Or what about the one sticking your tongue out? Isn't that VERY offensive in some cultures? Great...we're going to start WWIII because of this.
How will they translate this? (Score:2)
Screw you.
F|_|ck Yo|_|.
Better yet brb, lol, kma?
Re:How will they translate this? (Score:2)
Translations (Score:5, Insightful)
Do-it-yourself (Score:3, Interesting)
leverage (Score:2)
Who knows though, it'll probably take a lot more than this.
Not again. (Score:2)
Oh, I can just see it now. (Score:5, Funny)
Language1: May I buy you dinner?
Translation: Can I offer you money to eat you?
Re:Oh, I can just see it now. (Score:3, Funny)
Other IM Patents (Score:2)
Bad Headline (Score:5, Funny)
How are we supposed to come up with knee-jerk reactions without reading the article if Slashdot doesn't help us?
Prior Art (Score:5, Informative)
Obligatory Patent "Translation" (Score:3, Funny)
Translates to:
Okay, we finally admit that the point-n-click interface isn't the single most effective means of accomplishing every last task mankind could ever come up with.
So we hereby patent the 'pipe' command.
Translates to:
Screw you Jeff, I just patented the zero-click!
This patent was available? (Score:2, Interesting)
IANAL. IAN American. And my employer strongly believes in patent protection for IP of any kind, including software, but this strikes me as being an example of totally the wrong kind of patent ever to be issued anywhere, under any circumstances to any organization. Doubly so to MSFT.
What about the babblefish Gaim plugin? (Score:3, Insightful)
Language translation is not exactly an innovative idea.
Anyone else care to list babblefish style plugins for their favorite IMs.
Didn't you mean.... (Score:2)
How are they going to (Score:2, Interesting)
Published Prior Art (Score:3, Interesting)
From the site:
¡Recepción! (Score:5, Funny)
What they type...
a/s/l por favor Hola, cómo va? Qué usted está usando? Desee al cyber? Satisfágame en los Juguetes R Nosotros en la cañería. Traeré un vino de la botella y dos condoms.
What your kids see...
a/s/l please Hi, how goes? What you are using? Wish when cyber? Meet in Toys R We in the pipe. I will bring a wine of bottle and two condoms.
More MS Bloat for Users (Score:2)
Do I really want to have a language dictionaries stored on my Handheld or Phone? As it is, just installing spell checking features for only one language takes up an alarming chunk of my Palm Vx's RAM (8MB). Imagine what it would take to hold a few translation dictionaries. On a phone,
Scary... (Score:2)
prior art (Score:5, Informative)
Prior Art? (Score:5, Informative)
I would also imagine that the feature was in CVS and publically downloadable before that.
W
Use the whole world to build a translation tool (Score:2)
Create a website that lists every English word, and users can submit the corresponding French word. Whichever French word is submitted the most for a particular English word becomes the accepted value.
In addition, there would be "associate words." For example, what does "key" mean in English? Is it a house key? A key on a keyboard? In such a case, you could have "key" associated with 2 different groups of words:
key (keyboard, computer, technology, mouse, input)
key (house, car, door, loc
Classic Translation Problem (Score:5, Interesting)
Tranlator - English -> Russian
Russian : "The vodka is good, but the meat is rotten"
Automatic translation is a classic AI problem. Shouldn't there have to be a "working" prototype prior to issueing the patent??
Just goes to show... (Score:2)
real IM speak (Score:2)
And it would have to be damned fast - otherwise it's goin
Let's see a model! (Score:5, Informative)
1836 -- The Patent Act of July 4, 1836 reestablished the examination system of 1790. Models were once again required by the Commissioner. "The model, not more than 12 inches square, should be neatly made, the name of the inventor should be printed or engraved upon, or affixed to it, in a durable manner."
It was left to the commissioner of patents on whether or not he wanted to request a model. This case absolutely screams to the model requirement. In my opinion, for technology patents certainly, a person should not be able to patent something that they have no model for.
Microsoft is probably the least able to produce this product. Translation software? Show us that you have this technology. (Yeah right.) You want to translate on the fly on text filled with abbreviations and slang?
Okay, show us that you can do this. Show us your model (AND make it no more than 12 inches square!). Given their record breaking incompetence, there is no way in God's green acres that Microsoft has this technology workable or will have it in the near future.
Maybe a commissioner of patents write in campaign would fix all of these software problems up?
Lets STANDARDIZE! :-) (Score:2)
Esperantu meets modern Egypt with a refreshing twist of alien sci-fi!... Just add electronic ink.. shake vigorously and *poof* you're in the future!
FBI needs training to learn IM (Score:5, Informative)
Been available for Mac OS X for over an year (Score:5, Informative)
I've been using for a few years a fantastic multi-protocol IM client for Mac OS X called Fire [sourceforge.net].
It has had automatic translation capabilities in several languages for well over an year, and it works very well. Further more, Fire also supports AIM, ICQ, Jabber, MSN, Yahoo, IRC protocols.
Microsoft is following industry practice (Score:4, Insightful)
I think this is ultimately only fixable legislatively. It's important that the EU do not pass software patents--by having at least one large market where open source software can be developed without this nonsense, people will keep creating software even for functionality that's patented in the US. But in the long run, we really need to get patent reform in the US.
The effects of these kinds of patents are so hostile to business and competition that sooner or later, legislators must see the light.
Translate this, Bill (Score:3, Funny)
Si vous croyez qu'on peut tener un brevet pour traduction des MI, vous etes un plus gros connard que j'ai pensee.
Encoule toi, voleur!
IBM was demonstrating this 3 or 4 years ago (Score:4, Informative)
There may be detail differences in the implementation that the Microsoft patent application describes, but in general this is nothing new.
I've done this before (Score:3, Interesting)
That said, there is some prior art in William Gibson's Iduro where a conversation is translated back and forth between english and japanese. Sure, it was as audio, but really what's the diff?
Reason to be paranoid? (Score:3, Funny)
Je deteste Microsoft!
You see:
I love the innovation and security that I get only with fine Microsoft products!
Of course, if you had read the 40-page EULA for this translation software, you'd have known that this was going to happen.
MITRE's simple instant messaging (Score:3, Informative)
Diplomat (Score:4, Informative)
The dawn of a new patent era (Score:3, Funny)
Do something we've done for hundreds of years - but do it on a computer!
The second era of software patents:
Do something we've done on computers for decades - but do it on the web!
The new era of software patents:
Do something we've done on the web for years - but do it on IM!
I have prior art on this (Score:5, Interesting)
game with chat, and we could set it to run messages
through babelfish on the server (or whatever AltaVista's translation service was).
We even did translation twice for some games, The idea was to simulate international business negotiation, so to make the communication harder, we'd have messages translated from english to german to english, to simulate a scenario where a merger between an english and german company had taken place.
Ridiculousness (Score:3, Insightful)
Perhaps instead we ought to have a public registry which new ideas may be entered into, and all prior art may also be seen and shown when it exists. Those with a truly novel concept would be clearly noted as such and those making use of their invention would voluntarily contribute to encourage the further development of science and progress.
Much like the Free Software movement, but as applied to all inventions.
Ayttm gives prior art (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Holy cow! A potentially unique patent! (Score:2)
If they get really ambitious, they could introduce human elements into it that could assist in case of a snafu. Maybe on a subscription basis or something.
Re:Um... (Score:3, Funny)
Or, as Babelfish would say after a round trip into Japanese:
Re:Patent? Doesn't Star Trek Consitute Prior Art? (Score:2, Funny)
The man ...... will cease ..... to exist
We are(God it's hard doing Shatner in a slashdot post!)
A More Practical Solution (Score:2)
Eliminate the application fees.
Now hear me out. Right now, the patent office is a cash cow. Take away the milk, and Congress will start coming up with ways to shrink the office instead of building a massive new complex on very expensive real estate in Alexandria, Virginia.
Also, patent examiners will be more inclined to come up with ways to quickly deny patents instead of quickly granting them, since maintaining the patent is now just "work".
If you're clever, you might even be able to pitch this as p
Re:I guess I'll have to spend 5 minutes... (Score:2)