More on Oregon and GPS-tracked Gas Taxes 773
An anonymous reader writes "Wired has an update on Oregon's proposed replacement for their gas tax. Currently two candidates are in development, the first a GPS based system that tracks where a car goes to determine the number of miles driven. The other is a odometer-like device. Both would transmit the data to base stations periodically to determine the tax on a vehicle. There was a previous slashdot article."
Doesn't make sense to me (Score:5, Interesting)
A more important reason is that GPS, which can monitor exactly where a car goes within the state and at what times, eventually could be used to implement different tax rates, according to Whitty.
Followed by:
Whitty said there will be no privacy issues because the machines are being designed to store only the number of miles traveled, not the exact locations visited.
The whole thing sound ludicrous to me. I think people would complain more about getting another bill every month more than raising the gas tax a few cents. I understand that voters have turned down an increase in the tax over the past few years, but this seems like a very stupid way to get around it. Every gas station is going to have to have one of these devices installed. Then the pump will have to be changed so that it will give the user a different price depending on if he has a device or not.
Seems like a high cost plan with lower voter approval to me.
This is Crap (Score:5, Interesting)
Environment (Score:5, Interesting)
Out of state drivers (Score:5, Interesting)
What is this supposed to accomplish? (Score:5, Interesting)
If you want to reduce emissions and raise tax income, you're simply going to have to raise gas taxes. Tracking drivers like this is not only a potential invasion of privacy (there are other situations in which an odometer reading is significant) but also not infallible, especially if you use the odometer method. It's not like someone isn't going to figure out how to cheat the damn odometer.
Weird (Score:2, Interesting)
Brilliant! (Score:3, Interesting)
Shield yourself from harmful radiation AND save! (Score:3, Interesting)
"This super-absorbant shielding will shield you from those harmful radiowaves, emitted by the super-GPS tracker in your new Oregonian car! Easy to install and saves you gas money! Easy to remove for the state inspection."
Tax revenues based on consumption. (Score:0, Interesting)
Could be interesting, or a disaster (Score:5, Interesting)
To make any sense at all, they'll have to acknowledge that Portland Transportation is VASTLY different than the rest of the state, particularly outside the Willamette Valley. Portland is a city, and has public transportation (not a great system, but it's at least there.) People have alternatives. And it's got a complex city road system.
The rest of the state is mostly rural, with long highway stretches that aren't nearly as expensive to maintain. There aren't bus alternatives most places. Driving 10 miles a day in Baker City is incomparable to driving 10 miles a day in Portland, in terms of impact on the roads.
They allude in the article of having the ability to tell where you are, so charge more for being part of the downtown rush hour vs. on a logging road that sees 10 cars per day. If they use it, they can possibly have the semblance of a fair system. If not, it's business as usual, where the rest of the state pays for things that mostly benefit Portland.
(I grew up in Corvallis. There's real traffic during home OSU games, for the 4th of July fireworks, and when the Jehovah's Witness convention is in town. That's it. And that's the 4th largest city in the State.)
Oregon's in such a financial free-fall right now, though, that anyone that can come through with a way to generate revenue, quickly, will get seriously listened to. So, I wouldn't be surprised to see a badly written new tax fly through without being scrutinzed.
Re:Doesn't make sense to me (Score:3, Interesting)
That's just a handheld, inside my car. With an external antenna it could probably be even better.
Great for out-of-state drivers (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Love it (Score:3, Interesting)
Comment removed (Score:2, Interesting)
The idea cannot work. So why do they propose it? (Score:5, Interesting)
It seems to me that the GPS idea is part of Oregon government corruption. The idea cannot work for the reasons mentioned at the end of this article: Airplanes are safe, but laws often crash. [hevanet.com] Why are they proposing something that cannot work? Probably someone is using the idea to make money.
For more about problems in the government of Oregon, see this: Complicated methods corrupt Oregon government. [hevanet.com] Basically, people who want to use government to make money have found the perfect way to prevent negative court judgements: The Judiciary in Oregon is not allowed enough money to do its job. Try calling the Oregon Court of Appeals in Oregon on any Friday and you will find that they are closed because they don't have enough money to stay open 5 days a week. With a limited Judiciary, those who want corruption can accomplish almost anything.
The corruption uses other methods, some of which are mentioned in the articles.
You have to realize this about Oregon (Score:5, Interesting)
Yes it is illegal in Oregon for the average consumer to pump their own gas, because they might spill a little as opposed to the highly trained pumping engineer that you meet at your gas station every fillup (who loves spilling gas down the side of my car)
Lets see, adding custom hardware into my car (500 dollars) adding a reading mechanism to each pump (500 dollars). Ammount that I pay in gas taxes every year (10K miles, 50/MPG, 200 gallons) probably about $70. So it will take about 10 years for them to even break even (or maybe worse, make me pay for the upfront costs through higher car/gas prices)
Re:Ticket System Relies on Selective Enforcement (Score:3, Interesting)
If 10 people break the law, they goto jail...
If a million people break the law, they change the law.
On a side note, I agree about the low speed limits. They should up the speed limit to 70-75.
Re:Doesn't make sense to me (Score:4, Interesting)
Wonder what the new laws and penalties will be that will have to be put in place to 'prevent' this?
That and as another poster mentioned, all the cars will have to have these devices installed, the pumps at the stations will have to be severely modified/replaced....and a whole new section of the government (a new dept?) will have to be formed and paid for to monitor this...and pursure those suspected of hacking their systems...
And finally...sure enough, if there can be potential for abuse in this system...eventually there will be. Privacy could easily be infringed upon in the future as new government gets into power there years from now, that might not be as sensistive to privacy concerns as the ones in power now claim to be. Once everyone has these...not much of a step to require the units to be 'upgraded' to where they can track you better...
Re:Rube Goldberg (Score:2, Interesting)
But heavier vehicles, which get worse gas mileage, also damage the roads more, so there is still a very clear case for gas taxation.
What if those heavier vehicles use hybrid or electric engines? Why should an owner of a Honda Civic Hybrid pay less than the owner of a regular Honda Civic? The Hybrid is heavier and battery disposal causes pollution.
In a perfect world, I could see this as a reasonable solution. But in reality, it would cost far much to implement in a way which didn't allow abuse to be worth the minimal benefit. Maybe in 5, 10, or however many years, when a significant portion of traffic is using gasoline-free engines. Of course, then you could just tax based on vehicle registration.
Re:Doesn't make sense to me (Score:5, Interesting)
Well, let's see. The American Association of State Highway and Transportation Officials (AASHTO) [apao.org], New Zealand [transit.govt.nz], South Africa [tips.org.za] and the United Kingdom [the-statio...fice.co.uk], for starters.
What does more damage, 167 Volvos or 1 Expedition? Hmm, going to have to say the Volvos...
And according to experts around the world, you'd be wrong.
this is (Score:2, Interesting)