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More on Oregon and GPS-tracked Gas Taxes 773

Posted by michael
from the he-knows-when-you've-been-eating-meat dept.
An anonymous reader writes "Wired has an update on Oregon's proposed replacement for their gas tax. Currently two candidates are in development, the first a GPS based system that tracks where a car goes to determine the number of miles driven. The other is a odometer-like device. Both would transmit the data to base stations periodically to determine the tax on a vehicle. There was a previous slashdot article."
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More on Oregon and GPS-tracked Gas Taxes

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  • by Hrshgn (595514) <rince2001@gmYEATSx.ch minus poet> on Tuesday June 03, 2003 @04:31PM (#6108878)
    We have a GPS-based system [admin.ch] for Trucks here in Switzerland.

    Hrshgn
  • No Retrofitting! (Score:2, Informative)

    by moc.tfosorcimgllib (602636) on Tuesday June 03, 2003 @04:37PM (#6108948) Journal
    ODOT's website plainly states that there will be NO RETRO FITTING on cars. [state.or.us] [pdf format]

  • by fishbowl (7759) on Tuesday June 03, 2003 @04:39PM (#6108969)
    "Then the pump will have to be changed so that it will give the user a different price depending on if he has a device or not."

    That's a bit easier in Oregon than you might think. Oregon gas stations are all full service. You do not pump your own gas there. Anywhere in the whole State.
  • Re:This is Crap (Score:3, Informative)

    by pizen (178182) on Tuesday June 03, 2003 @04:39PM (#6108972)
    A GPS tracking system makes it easy to get caught for speeding but you're still breaking the law so what are you complaining about?

    Except GPS is far too inaccurate for this. Say I'm driving on a stacked road (surface street underneath an expressway) how will it know where I am so it can know which speed limit I should be observing. I'd hate to get a ticket for driving 55 on a different plane above a 25.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 03, 2003 @04:40PM (#6108987)
    See, you have to understand Oregonians. I was one. I was born and raised in Oregon, but I quickly moved down to California before things got too insane. Honestly, they've always been insane, but now they're getting crazy.

    Oregonians enjoy big brother. The passed a law recently allowing any CHP officer to search your car with or without probable cause just to be on the safe side. This is yet another stab at our rights to privacy and freedom. And Oregonians just love it. Imagine how futuristic Oregon would be if they had all their vehicles tracked via GPS. There would be an extremely fair gas tax levied across the state. And nobody would miss their privacy, afterall, they're just Oregonians.
  • Re:Too easy to cheat (Score:4, Informative)

    by tomhudson (43916) <barbara@hudson.barbara-hudson@com> on Tuesday June 03, 2003 @05:01PM (#6109221) Journal
    <quote>Tthey don't remove the panel. they use dental drills and tools</quote>

    The do not. On the Taurus, for example, pulling the whole unit out is no big job. And most chrysler vehicles can have the odometer set to any value you want with a laptop, a DOS program, and a conector.

    There's a place 5 blocks from where I live, that's all they do all day. Strange thing, in Canada, it's a weights-and-measures act offense ($50.00 fine, no criminal record), not a criminal code offense. Fucking stooopid uf you ask me.

  • Yes (Score:4, Informative)

    by mindstrm (20013) on Tuesday June 03, 2003 @05:27PM (#6109466)
    A cheap handheld consumer GPS has an accuracy of about 15 feet... but will show movement even smaller than that. Meaning: You can't trust the exact coordinates more than 15 feet, but relative to each other in an area, the coordinates are more accurate.. if you move 5 feet west, the gps will usually show yuo 5 feet west of wherever it said you were the previous time... it's not like the numbers jump around a 15 foot radius while yuo stand still.

    As the other poster said, you can see which lane you used on the highway. I can tell if I'm in my front or back yard.

  • by Granular (244934) on Tuesday June 03, 2003 @08:45PM (#6110966)
    What does more damage, 167 Volvos or 1 Expedition? Hmm, going to have to say the Volvos...

    And according to experts around the world, you'd be wrong.

    Actually, when designing a roadway, both of these vehicles would be neglected, as their axle weights will cause an insignificant amout of roadway damage when compared to heavy trucks.

    But, if we really wanted to take these vehicles into account...

    Ford Expedition - Axle weight: 2634 lbs
    Volvo S40/V40 - Axle weight: 1615 lbs

    For simplicity, let's round these numbers to make the Expedition heavier (r 3000lbs), and the Volvo lighter (r 1000lbs).

    Using the Asphalt Institute's (AASHTO uses AI EALFs) Equivalent Axle Load Factors (EALF, damage caused to an asphalt roadway, compared to that caused by a single 18,000lb axle), we can determine the Equivalent Single Axle Loads (ESALs).

    1000 lbs - 0.00002 EALF
    3000 lbs - 0.00018 EALF

    Thus, 167 Volvos would cause 0.00668 ESALs worth of damage (167 Volvos * 2 Axles each * 0.00002 EALF), while the one Expedition would cause 0.00036 ESALs worth (1 Expedition * 2 Axles * 0.00018 EALF).

    Thus the age old question is answered, even while skewing the problem against the Expedition, 167 Volvos are more damaging to roadways then a single Expedition. (Concrete roadways will reflect similar, but not the same, damge trends.)

    BTW, IAATE (Transportation Engineer).

Reality must take precedence over public relations, for Mother Nature cannot be fooled. -- R.P. Feynman

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