When Copy Protection Fails 509
StArSkY writes "The Age in Australia has an article today explaining the experiences of a Melbourne guy who purchased the Norah Jones CD tht is 'copy protected.' Unfortunately the only way he could listen to the CD on Apple computers or Intel computers running XP was to copy the CD. This sort of defeats the purpose of the copy protection in the first place. Serious yet amusing at the same time."
Sounds Familiar (Score:5, Interesting)
How did he copy it? (Score:5, Interesting)
Same with software (Score:5, Interesting)
Well, guess what -- that disc is copy protected. So, in order to excercise my authorized right under the EULA, I have to defeat the copy protection...
News? (Score:2, Interesting)
Concerns about the CD (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:That isn't too bad. (Score:4, Interesting)
Actually, the exact opposite is starting to happen, to an extent; that is, record companies are starting to build in "added value" to CD's to entice you to actually buy the CD instead of just downloading the tracks. Here in Canada, The Tragically Hip [thehip.com] did something involving cheaper concert tickets [thehip.com] for people who bought their latest album; Wilco [wilcoworld.net] put an EP's worth of .mp3 files [wilcoworld.net] up for download for people who could enter a code from the packaging of their last album [wilcoworld.net]. This is another odd, unforeseen consequence of .mp3 sharing; record companies have to earn their money when they sell albums and are doing all sorts of stuff, like bundling DVD's with CD's (J5 [jurassic5.com] did that with their last album), or using contests, on-line content or other swag to actually separate you from your buck.
Re:Sounds Familiar (Score:5, Interesting)
They exist so that each copy of the program is serialized, and they can in theory, identify your identity if you leak the CD key to pirates. Of course, the way to thwart that is not register at all -- unless you have to do that silly Microsoft activation thing.
In the console world, we're a bit more enlightened, and never bother with such asinine methods such as "CD keys".
Re:He copied a cd? (Score:5, Interesting)
AFAIK in Finland you are even allowed to share your own legal music with your friends/family. As you can imagine, because of the p2p networks there have been serious discussion in who really is your friend (eg. the guy living in the States that you have never seen, but you know him by IRC, is he your friend?). It will be interesting to see how things will end up.
Re:cd key protected software (Score:2, Interesting)
Then when I install from the copy, not only do I have the key, I can also just open it up in textpad and copy and paste it. I hate typing those 20+ letter codes - I don't know how dyslexics do it!
Boycott, with a twist (Score:5, Interesting)
Of course, we should boycott artists and record companies that use copy protection (playback protection?). But we should do it in a way that causes the most inconvenience for the stores and record companies:
The store is obliged to pay the refund when the product doesn't work. A "copy protected" disc is not a CD, even if it's (misleadingly) sold as one.
I heard that the latest, copy protected, Robin Williams album was sold in more than 100.000 copies in my country. No more than 10 discs were returned. Let's make that number higher!
And the provided software sucks (Score:3, Interesting)
I've also come across this with some other CDs I own (Although not Norah Jones funnily enough).
Every time I buy a CD I rip it and store the CD away. This is so I can listen to the music I PAYED FOR while I'm at work without having to lug all my CDs around.
Also, I make copies of my CDs for use in the car. This is after having a company car broken into twice, where approx 100 CDs were stolen (My wife had the original CDs in those slip-case things in the glovebox)... so now we have a pile of original CD cases with no CDs in them.
I copy CDs so that I can listen to them without having the original that I paid for stolen or broken. Software that tries to stop me doing that... just kinda... PISSES ME OFF!
Right... I'm going home.
Re:Sounds Familiar (Score:5, Interesting)
Worked for me (Score:1, Interesting)
My machine is a Mac G4 (Aug'99) with a new-ish LG CD-RW/DVD-ROM combo drive I put in recently.
Not only did the disc play from iTunes (without fault), it ripped to mp3 with no problems at all. The disc even includes a little stand-alone app to play it in Windows, Mac OS 9 and Mac OS X. That worked too (from OS X).
Same with the Ben Harper disc.
It seems as though this copy protection is patchy at best. Not the sort of thing the industry should stake their reputation on.
Re:He copied a cd? (Score:5, Interesting)
You can't copy CDs for personal use in Britain as it's not one of activities listed in the fair use laws -- an activity has to be explicitely exempted for it to be free from the restrictions imposed by the copyright laws. See The UK Campaign For Digital Rights [ukcdr.org] for more info, particularly the FAQ [ukcdr.org]
Re:He copied a cd? (Score:3, Interesting)
They very much fail to make clear that breach of copyright is only a criminal offence when the breacher makes money out of it (or breaches "to an extent that affects prejudicially the owner of the copyright" - quote from the law). Any other breaches are simply civil offences (in general much less rewarding in Australia when compared to the US). [how large a breach needs to be before affecting the owner prejudicially has never been tested in the courts here to the best of my knowledge]
They also don't make mention of the right to back up software - a right which has been supported by the Australian Competition and Consumer comission when they supported the right to sell Playstation modchips [videocam.net.au].
Re:Australian Copyright Law (Score:5, Interesting)
Look at the internet censorship one.. or our "dmca".. or traffic, drug, petty theft laws.. hell, you pretty much need to kill someone here to do more than 3 months jail time
Identified? Yeah right. (Score:3, Interesting)
a) You gave it out
b) Somebody hax0red you (given the number of people that are DDoS bots, how many have a particular game installed)
c) You sold it second-hand to a dude that has leaked it
Not to mention, most of the serials don't sound like legitimate registrations at all, like "Name: l33t hax0rs Phone: 1122334455 Reg key: dkhgslksg". I seriously doubt that was ever a real key.
Kjella
A Roman Emperor once said (Score:5, Interesting)
Analogically speaking, EMI just messed up the gladiator games.
Unrest will ensue.
(Gee, I wish I knew the EXACT quote and which Roman Emperor said it....)
Re:How did he copy it? (Score:4, Interesting)
Bob
Re:Identified? Yeah right. (Score:2, Interesting)
d)Reg key made with a Keygen- "Name: l33t hax0rs Phone: 1122334455 Reg key: dkhgslksg" would be such a generated key ;>
Software backup is allowed as "fair dealing" (Score:5, Interesting)
It's actually quite interesting if you read it. The law makes exemptions for "fair dealing" and then goes on to specifically mention some things that are included in "fair dealing". However the wording (to me at least) doesn't indicate that the list is an exclusive.
I think you'd have every chance to stand up in court and argue that making a backup copy of a CD you own is "fair dealing".
The reason that hasn't happened is because in the real world the record companies have no interest in stopping you doing that anyway. There is no money to be gained and they don't want to cause a weakening of the copyright law by creating a precedent that expands "fair dealing".
Was it labelled a CD? (Score:3, Interesting)
Does anyone actually know who (if anyone) in Philips to bother about this? As I've just discovered that a supposed "cd" (it bears the logo) that I own is copy protected and I'm in a record label bashing mood.
Re:Why oh why (Score:5, Interesting)
Oh, poo, it appears that the guilty-until-proven-innocent idea the RIAA was operating under was just demonstrated to be wrong, at least among macintosh users. (Granted its a population subset, but the RIAA has 0 data to the contrary....) But the apple music store makes those nice record labels obsolete minus their functions "discovering" (pronounced: "manufacturing" c.f. avril lavigne) artists and "producing" songs. (long live daniel beddingfield....)
Go buy a mac. Apple _is_ fighting for your digital rights.
Re:How did he copy it? (Score:3, Interesting)
The coppied CD ripped just fine.
The irony of having to copy a CD to get around copy protection is just hilarious. What's even funnier is that I will probably give the copy away to someone since I now have no use for it.
Re:He copied a cd? (Score:2, Interesting)
An on-going problem with "copy" protection (Score:2, Interesting)
More recently, I have found that I need to crack any games that use SafeDisc v1 [macrovision.com] to play them on my DVD-ROM drive. For whatever reason, it treats using the original CD as if it's a copy but the crack version will use the DVD-ROM drive for playing just fine. Neither Macrovision or the game publishers provide any useful help in getting these older games working with DVD-ROM drives.
The question becomes, if the long term solution is to get a cracked version then why pay for the original version in the first place?
More dodgy fodder (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:He copied a cd? (Score:2, Interesting)
The very act of playing a CD is a reproduction of the original (copyrighted) sounds made by the musician at the time of the recording. Therefore, under a strict interpretation of this law, a CD cannot legally be played at all without explicit permission from the copyright owner.
Than again, that's exactly what the music industry wants - pay per play.
Re:Boycott, with a twist (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:He copied a cd? (Score:3, Interesting)
I purchased my listening license... (Score:3, Interesting)
The thing that seems to be missed most in these discussions is loosing and regaining your purchased material. When I buy my music I buy a LICENSE to listen to that music. Lets face it, the cd cost a couple of bucks, where does the rest of the money go. The pysical media cost next to nothing.
I was unlucky enough to have almost my entire cd collection stolen (yeah no insurance but there u go) and I'll put it straight: There is no way in hell that im going to fork out the hundreds of dollars to get them back again. I have already paid for my license to listen to the material I purchased a long time earlier. I am merely regaining the physical media to execute that license.
But that makes me a criminal? Well, bring it on!
Re:Australian Copyright Law (Score:5, Interesting)
Living in a country founded by criminals is a lot more fun that one founded by puritans
DON'T BUY IT! (Score:3, Interesting)
Or, buy the disc, make a copy as described, and return it claiming it didn't work on your computer at work and that you primarily listen to music at work.
Maybe I should try that approach with the new Ed Harcourt CD? I used to convince myself that a simple boycott is enough. However, a bit of piracy of the supposedly "safe" format will make the business case for "copy protection" even worse..
Re:How did he copy it? (Score:4, Interesting)
CD audio is just 16 bit PCM, like most WAV files. When you copy WAV files around, quality isn't lost. Why would it be on a CD? I can rip a CD to AIFF or WAV, burn it to CD, and compare and get the same audio data back, bit for bit.
Now, if the CD is stored in a lossy format (MP3), before reburning it, you might have a point. But CD copying software tends not to do that (except jukebox apps like ITunes).
Re:vinyl! when copy protection is impossible! (Score:2, Interesting)
Yes, in theory, LP has a high-end rolloff limited only by the equipment used - up to 40kHz is readily acheivable with a decent magnetic pick-up. CD, by contrast, has a high-end rolloff limited by the quantisation process - the Nyquist Limit of 0.5x the sampling rate. Basically, to know what the frequency of a signal is, you need at least one sample somewhere in the crest and another sample somewhere in the trough. This is a fundamental limitation that no technology will get around.
Changing the sampling rate of a digital signal is non-trivial (except for integer multiples). So the entire mastering process is performed at 44100 samples / second, the ISO9660 red book CD sampling rate, and gives a Nyquist limit of 22.05kHz - above the limit of a child's hearing. In practice no filter can be made with a sharp enough "knee" to fit the limit, so the response typically begins to tail off around 18kHz, in line with an adult's hearing.
So your analogue vinyl LP was recorded and mixed digitally at 44100Ss-1, and therefore contains nothing that wouldn't be on the CD of the same work. Except Vinyl Warmth, of course.
Apple Records tried to copy-protect The Beatles' Sergeant Pepper LP by including a frequency too high to hear, that was meant to beat with the ultrasonic bias of a tape recorder and cause the volume to modulate up and down on playback. One resistor and one capacitor would have got around it. It worked fine in the labs, but most home equipment of the day couldn't reproduce the copy protection signal at all and the album was easily ripped off
I did this and mailed Sen. Hatch about it. (Score:3, Interesting)
I also told him that I copy every single computer CD that I get and only use the copies so that my originals won't get ruined. I would do the same with DVDs if I could. I don't steal software, but I copy everything I have. Luckily, I pointed out, I am knowledgeable enough to get around all of these copy protection schemes; but most people aren't and it is illegal for me to help them.
Everyone should write their congresscritters and legislators about their experiences like this so that they will be more aware of the problem. Be a squeaky wheel.
What the band "Cold" had to say about MP3s (Score:4, Interesting)
This seemed completely backwards to me. Cold has basically bought into the line that they need the RIAA for promotion, and they're willing to give up their revenue from CD sales in exchange. It was the first time I'd heard a band actually come out and say this.
I think the digital music battle has a long way to go if artists fail to understand that what digital distribution offers is a way to break free from the record labels. I can't believe that so many artists are willing to give up their CD revenue in exchange for promotion and production costs as long as they still get their take of the concert sales.
Broken merchandise and returns? (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't have a laptop, unfortunately, or I'd try this... Go to a big music store with your laptop (some time when you've got a lot of free time). Bring along a printout of the Redbook standard (the one that they have to comply with if they want to put that little Phillips 'Compact Disc' logo on the disc).
Buy a Phil Collins CD that you know is copy protected. Bring it over to the service desk. Open the CD in front of them, stick it in your laptop, have it fail to play, and insist that it's broken and you want another one.
Go get another one, open it, and do the same thing.
Repeat until you've opened the shrinkwrap on every copy of the CD, forcing the store to either re-wrap them or (more likely) send them back to the manufacturer as defective (at the manfacturer's cost).
Then go on to Norah Jones. ;)
-T
Re:RETURN defective crap. It will work. (Score:4, Interesting)
-T
Interesting findings... (Score:3, Interesting)
I have a DVD player in my living room, which I doubt will be able to play those disks (heck it can't do CDRs/CDRWs).
I usually play my CD's on my computer and then redirect the audio to my home theater system.
Will I have to become a pirate to listen to my future CDs?
I guess this also raises the question whether or not you own the media or the songs on the media? What do you pay for? The right to listen to the songs (if so, can other people around you listen too?) or the right to listen to *that* media only? (then you can't make MP3s for your walkman/car player?)
It seems like the fact that you can't play that CD on some hardware is some sort of discrimination. You can't fully enjoy your CD. Will record companies refund you a part of the price since you can't play it on all your players? If you own the right to listen to the song, would making a copy be legal in that case?
Re:if only... (Score:2, Interesting)
It wouldn't be too hard to take a feed of the zeros and ones as picked up by the laser in a standalone CD player (even if there wasn't a digital out) and decode that. The process is published in the Red Book
Or, you could build a card that sat on a computer's bus, and emulated a well-documented sound card well enough to fool Windows - and grabbed the resulting data in onboard RAM, or possibly a dedicated separate HDD. All in all, copy protection is a fallacy. The only workable scheme would be one that could truthfully detect whether or not the listener is doing anything dishonest.
Anyway, even if the record companies do succeed in implementing such a scheme (I for one believe it's impossible) we can always make our own music! Unless/until the record companies find a way to regulate the manufacture and sale of instruments [excuse me chummy, that there guitar looks as if it might be going to be used to play a copyrighted song - you're nicked], anyway