Texas Rep Wants To Jail File Traders 739
kUnGf00m45t3r writes "There is an article on Wired about how Texas Rep. John Carter wants to jail some college students to scare people away from illegal file sharing. He says, "What these kids don't realize is that every time they pull up music and movies and make a copy, they are committing a felony under the United States code," Carter said in an interview. "If you were to prosecute someone and give them three years, I think this would act as a deterrent." Right..."
What these kids don't realize (Score:3, Insightful)
Yeah, right.... (Score:2, Insightful)
The world is going to hell in a handbasket.
Deterrent... (Score:5, Insightful)
He's got a point.... (Score:5, Insightful)
3 years of training and a felony conviction? (Score:5, Insightful)
There just isn't enough violent crime in the US anymore. Let's all thank the Texan for finding a way to correct that problem.
Re:Yeah, right.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Tom.
Stupid (Score:3, Insightful)
His priority is corporate payrolls, not the people.
Revolition time, overthrow the gov. that the people Remember, the gov is SUPPOST to represent the PEOPLE, lately they just represent the CORPORATION.
Overthrow it.
An ineffective stance (Score:5, Insightful)
Filesharing is, in my opinion, much like speeding. A whole hell of a lot of people do it, and only a small percentage ever get caught or have to face the music, so to speak. When more than half of drivers are doing 70 in a 55, and only 1 in 5,000 are pulled over and given a ticket, there is no deterrent! Similarly, if you've got hundreds of thousands of students sharing files illegally, and you only punish "a few" of them, that's not going to discourage the rest of them.
The idea that "they won't bust me" is always going to be prevalent. Either we put them all in jail for committing these horrible felonies, or we don't bother busting any of them.
Re:Hmmm... (Score:2, Insightful)
Sheesh.
File traders (Score:5, Insightful)
Let the punishment fit the crime (Score:5, Insightful)
"What these kids don't realize is that every time they pull up music and movies and make a copy, they are committing a felony under the United States code," Carter said in an interview. "If you were to prosecute someone and give them three years, I think this would act as a deterrent."
I know the american judicial and political system can be pretty screwed up at time, but just how much support does this guy think he's going to get from his constituents (read votes), when he starts sending kids to jail for three years in punishment for what amounts to fiften dollars worth of copyright violation?
To compare, how long do you expect Jeffrey Skilling (former Enron CEO) to spend in jail for the $30 billion lost there . . .
First Stone (Score:3, Insightful)
Ric Campaign for the national sig: "*Just kidding, Admiral Poindexter!"
All we need is several million (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Yeah, right.... (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:logic? what about message? (Score:5, Insightful)
What message does jailing students send to American citizens? The one I can hear is "Innovative students who offend Corporations will be jailed. Even if the 'guilty act' does not merit such severe action ".
Re:Hmmm... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Hmmm... (Score:3, Insightful)
fine, but let's do something else first... (Score:5, Insightful)
In the grand scheme of things, cleaning out corrupt politicians is a whole lot more important than cracking down in file trading by people with no money. I'm sure jailing people like Carter for a few years would have a wonderfully deterrent effect on other politicians. What about it?
How many students wanna end up in the military ? (Score:1, Insightful)
OMG!!! You mean, I wont get to rape young girls in Bosnia, engage in illegal trafficking, be able to rub shoulders with terrible Afghanistan warlords and partake in their feasts, form an illegal nexus with the Defence Contractors, be a pawn to the politicians and shoot innocent civilians in broad daylight ?????
Please...please tell me that aint true..
Who got this guy elected? (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't think that a justice system should be used to "scare" someone - especially when a great number of people don't think that much of a crime has been committed. Basically people have taped each others' CDs and records for years, and music still gets made, Puffy Daddy still buys his plane, the sky doesn't fall in. The problem is we don't see "these kids" as criminals - okay they are, but not the kind of criminals who need to be jailed. We do see a lot of musicians as criminals though, they make vast fortunes from music that is likely to inflame racial tensions and advocate criminal acts - this Texas Rep should choose his friends more wisely if he hopes to be re-elected.
It also seems pretty hypocritical to add a levy on blank CD media and STILL go after individuals who are buying them. It seems that the music industry wants to be paid twice - once for original CDs and once for blank media.
don't make laws that are unenforceable (Score:1, Insightful)
Enforcing copy right law is impossible without tremendous effort and cost. Problem is, the US government, and most other governments in the civilized world, are tripping down that road hand-in-hand with the copyright cartels.
I do not wish to have my tax dollars spent enforcing the copy right monopolies of others. When tax dollars are spent wrting and enforcing laws pertaining to copy right that is exactly what is happening.
Re:Or... (Score:4, Insightful)
Then when you go to the big house, you'll be in and out in less than 2 years, and it won't make the headlines.
Re:Hmmm... (Score:2, Insightful)
No, I guess not.
I'm not talking about whether or not the law is just, but whether prior compliance with a law makes it alright to disregard the law later.
But if I concede that it is wrong to break the law (at least in the situation above), then the question of whether the law is just is a lot more important. There's also the question of whether the law is sensible. A law that can't be enforced and is flouted that much makes a mockery of the legal system.
Maybe more students should vote (Score:2, Insightful)
Boycotts are a good idea but imagine the shock value of millions of students registering to vote in order to "send a message" back to Congressman Carter. Fighting corruption while simultaneously keeping your butt out of jail would be cool too.
Re:Hmmm... (Score:4, Insightful)
As it is, I do buy a few CDs, but only if I consider the package as a whole is worth owning. If record companies want people to buy CDs they should try making the product 'value-added' enough that its better than just having the MP3. Good artwork, lyric sheets, stylised packaging. Do anything to make it worth the money, but don't expect people to pay for a CD when its as easy as ripping it, or P2Ping it.
Thats my opinion anyway.
Re:Let the punishment fit the crime (Score:4, Insightful)
Can that be correct? It may be illegal, but is it really a felony? That seems a bit harsh, but then again, there are a lot of things that are felonies in Texas that aren't felonies elswhere.
Of course Unlawful Carrying of a Weapon (Handgun, whatever), is only a mesdemeanor.
Re:An ineffective stance (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes, it would definately deter hundreds of thousands of filesharers from his reelection... Let's face it, if the American people made enough stink about changing the copyright laws to allow casual filesharing, it would happen. There are enough people who do this and vote that it would make a significant difference. All we need is ONE candidate up for election who makes this his issue and the rest will scurry into place, either immediately agreeing, or seeing the light after they lose.
Attention Texas geeks and college students (Score:1, Insightful)
Register to vote [state.tx.us]. Today.
Call Carter if you want, not that it'll do much good; he got 78% of the vote in his last election [state.tx.us] in a district that votes even more Republican than the rest of the state, if such a thing is possible.
But maybe you can throw a scare into some of his colleagues.
The antidote is massive voter registration. These guys are counting on college students to not vote; are you going to fulfill their expectations?
My Rant (Score:4, Insightful)
Swapping a song is more akin to going to your library and copying an article out of an encyclopedia. I mean, the library paid for that encyclopedia, but Britannica certainly isn't getting any type of royalty or extra revenue for your actions. And, this behavior is actually accepted (otherwise, why did my college library have eight copy machines on each floor?).
The fact is, and this has been stated over and over again, that the recording industry is using a business model that is quickly becoming antiquated because it has not adapted to changes in digital media capabilities (i.e., instant gratification: easier and cheaper to download a single track from the Internet than to drive to the music store).
Furthermore, what is the motivation or desireable quality of owning a physical CD at the cost of $15? For the eight garbage tracks that you get in addition to the 1 or 2 good songs? For the really cool cover artwork? For the satisfaction that your $15 contributed to the squandering lifestyle of the artist, or even worse, the recording label?
Perhaps my views are seeded in jealousy. There, I said it. Because I have no marketable talent, I'm forced to work 40+ hours a week and live entirely on that paycheck. Recording stars might put in long hours at the studio (boo hoo--we all put in long hours to meet our deadlines probably more frequently than they record an album), but in my eyes, they aren't truly working unless they're touring. And, just because they can sing or otherwise attract public appeal, they have the opportunity to afford all kinds of luxuries PLUS have big companies give them all kinds of products for free in hopes of some sort of endorsement. I wonder what that would be like....
Call it theft or whatever, but I think that the everyday 40+ hour a week employee has voiced its opposition to the practices of the recording industry that takes money away from the working class to support the lifestyle of the artists.
Re:Whats good for the goose... (Score:2, Insightful)
Or, to put it differently: As long as white-collar criminals are in charge, white-collar crimes will be tolerated.
What I don't understand is why ordinary people tolerate and defend Bush's actions. After all, it is you and I who pay the bill at the end of the day.
Re:Yeah, right.... (Score:1, Insightful)
US: "Is Iraq totally compling"
Blix: "Nope, but he is sorta complying."
US: "That's not good enough, we're going to war."
This war isn't to "protect" anyone. This war is to enforce twelve years of ignored sanctions and an all-but-ignored peace agreement. It's just as proper to consider this "Gulf War part II" as it would be to consider it "Gulf War II."
Re:Yeah, sure. (Score:5, Insightful)
This isn't just in comparison with other "democracies", this is of anywhere, including dictatorships.
It now looks like it's trying hard to keep anyone else from approaching this record.
This is something for the "land of the free" to be ashamed of, not proud of.
Re:Hmmm... (Score:5, Insightful)
How about jailing HIM as an exemple ?? (Score:2, Insightful)
For the above reason, my thought is that this guy is only after the publicity as such a proposal wouldn't go through a real court.
This is why file sharing should be legal (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Yeah, right.... (Score:0, Insightful)
Sorry, but what the hell is the point of even having a country if you're bound by every other country's laws? There is a lot of stuff you can do in country X that you can't do in Y, and vice versa. So, if you are actually in someone else's country and you break their laws fair enough, you get your ass slung in jail, but if you are at home and a foreign court decides you broke their laws while you weren't even there (this is what ICC does, in a nutshell) there's bugger all they can do about it right now, which is as it should be. Sign up to ICC and your citizens can be extradited to face a foreign court for something that isn't even a crime where they are now.
God, this man's hypocrisy makes me want to vomit.
No, he's pretty consistent actually: the duty of the American government is to put the interests of American citizens first. Again, if your government isn't about looking after its own tax-paying law-abiding citizens, what the hell is it for?
Re:if they put someone in jail for this (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Hmmm... (Score:2, Insightful)
I guess it is actually the ability to enjoy the bar, and not the bar itself, that they are selling.
Like how they're selling the right to hear the sound waves, and not the right to own the media. sort of. It's just the sound waves are contained on the media, and you can't steal another because you don't own the rights to two copies of the sound waves.
And why do CDs cost more than tapes?
Re:Hmmm... (Score:3, Insightful)
Using that logic, you might as well say that taking a photo of someone is stealing.
Let's start with congressmen's children (Score:2, Insightful)
If not them, then certainly the children of representatives and senators. If this guy wants to show how truly just he is, then I'm sure he'd be more than happy to make his children examples of what happens when you don't follow the law.
Oh, and when in doubt, blame college students!
Re:Hmmm... (Score:5, Insightful)
Jails are for extremely violent or disorderly people who have the potential to ruin others' lives and do not care what happens to others. Most college students (except for some of the frat boys around here) do not fit into this category (not even close!). Jails are for dangerous crimes; violent crimes are dangerous, drugs are considered dangerous (perhaps if you are a pusher, but what about the rest of the people in jail for drug dealings and possession?), and cheating the (economic) system in grandiose ways is sometimes considered dangerous.
How is file sharing, something that has been going on for years and years *anyway* (ever copied a tape or CD? recorded something off the radio kept it? recorded something off TV and kept it?), suddenly such a grandiose crime that it is ruining others' lives in such a serious way?
Jails are designed to hurt and punish people who haven't learned not to hurt and punish others. By not buying a CD, who am I hurting? If I like an artist enough, I will by their CD. If I don't consider it worth my money, I won't. In the past, I would just tape songs I liked off of the radio to make mix tapes. How is this different? Let's start turning in powerful people for making mix tapes with songs off the radio, shall we? I do believe that qualifies as an "illegal download." Then maybe people will realize how ridiculous this whole business is (in most cases, anyhow).
Piracy? Theft? Hahahahahahaha. I guess "copyright infringment" isn't scary enough of a word. If I go to jail for piracy, I better have looted and pillaged. If I go to jail for theft, I better have acquired lots of new physical possessions from a store, defeating store security.
Great Idea! (Score:3, Insightful)
If he succeeds, pretty soon there won't be any file trading, just like now there are no more illegal drugs in this country!
Re:why not all boycot buying cds ? (Score:2, Insightful)
The record industry can then point to the drop in sales and say "SEE! We told you so! Our sales are hurting because of file sharing!" and the law will crack down even harder until enough people cough over the dough.
I'm not saying you should support the record industry - I don't - but just cold hard facts.
Re:What these kids don't realize (Score:1, Insightful)
Have any of these guys even done the math? The RIAA's numbers don't add up to billions of loss as they purported; the number is in the low millions on how much their sales have gone down.... and in our current economy I'm sure that must have had NOTHING to do with it? Damn I loath these uneducated people in our Government.
I host a p2p server and have for many years. I will continue to host one as long as there is an internet to host it on as an expression of what little freedom we 'have' remaining.
I'm not a thief for sharing files - in fact I don't share files because that would leave me at legal risk; however, I do provide an area where people chat and there is the potential for sharing files but that part is out of my control. Frankly though, I have conducted polls and asked people directly - what were my results? 1) Most people downloading files are in an economic position in their lives where they cant 'afford' to purchase the music and software they currently use. 2) Most people purchase these same cd's and programs when they can afford them, IF they were worth a crap when they were using them. 3) Nearly all surveyed feel cd's and programs are too expensive for what you get from them - if a music cd only cost five bucks we would have half as much file sharing. 4) Most will continue to share files until they are arrested and/or there is nobody else left to share files with.
We will not go quietly into the night - we will not give in - we ARE the future and no lamer member of government or the riaa/mpaa/bsa/what-freaking-ever, will change our goal of sharing files.
Nobody can look at the copyright laws of today and tell me they are not a COMPLETE mockery of what our founding fathers intended. Frankly, I think all amendments to copyright law should be found unconstitutional and stricken...
We're not going anywhere - and your future votes (presuming people learn how to vote so the president doesn't need to buy his way into office) are dependant on US - Most households transfer files daily and do you know what that means? It means the majority of America disagrees with the legal standards in place regarding copyrights. So do what you must but one way or another, we will win - even if that means it will take a generation or two to accomplish it!
Re:Hmmm... (Score:5, Insightful)
That's absurd.
It's also absurd that someone is willing to ruin some bright and basically good kid's life (a felony on your record severely limits your options) just to make an example and a point.
Here's a legal proposal for you: it should be unlawful to use criminal law to make examples of anyone. If you prosecute one offender, you should have to prosecute them all. (College campuses everywhere are suddenly vacant; millions of voices are suddenly silenced.)
Re:Hmmm... (Score:2, Insightful)
Selective Enforcement (Score:2, Insightful)
For those that do not know, it is illegal to practice selective enforcement.
The reason it isn't legal, and shouldn't be is that by only presecuting select individuals, you create an inequity in the justice system (ok.. don't get on me about all the inequities there are now).
The point is that selective enforcement allows people (not laws) to determine who gets punished. Be the wrong skin color, wrong age, not buy-off enough people, and those prosecutors may come after you for simple crimes.
So, in order to send ANY number of people to jail, the prosecutors must show that they are actively persuing all crimes of this nature. In fact, if I was one of these kids I would probably use that as a defense. I would put to burden on the prosecutor to prove to a jury that they are not targeting (profiling) my racial/ethnical/age profile. Show me the hundreds of other cases out there you are investigating, etc..etc..
What these "kids" *DO* realize... (Score:3, Insightful)
Lobbying against themselves? (Score:2, Insightful)
When I moved out to go to university last year and got my (off-campus, non-university) broadband internet connection up, I signed up for a little service called Audiogalaxy. [audiogalaxy.com] Anyone remember Audiogalaxy? It was a community-oriented p2p music-trading service. The community-oriented bit, I found fantastic. Yes, you could just use it to download songs. You could also, however, join groups of people with similar musical tastes, who would forward you songs from artists you may never have heard before. Had it not been for Audiogalaxy, I might never have been introduced to artists like Pedro the Lion [jadetree.com], Onelinedrawing [jadetree.com], and The Weakerthans. [theweakerthans.org]
In the last year, I bought two CDs by The Weakerthans, one by Onelinedrawing, I have an order form filled out for a pair of Pedro the Lion CDs, some Pedro the Lion and Onelinedrawing merchandise, and I have tickets to see The Weakerthans in Calgary this weekend.
Is this a bad thing for the artists and labels? Do they just not want my money? I wouldn't have spent that money on Eminem and Britney Spears, sorry. If I hadn't been introduced to these other bands I wouldn't have spent that money on music at all. Peer-to-peer could be an absolute goldmine for the recording industry. It's free advertising. Do you know how much the recording industry spend on advertising last year? I don't even want to look it up. I'm afraid the incredible size of the number would cause this library computer to crash. It's probably written with scientific notation.
The funny thing is, the people who have the most lobbying power within the RIAA aren't the small record labels like Jade Tree or G7 or Vagrant or Deep Elm, the little guys who are attempting to run an honest business, support good artists, and bring good art out so that the public can enjoy it. They're the giant conglomerates, the ones who are responsible for Toni Braxton going broke despite selling $188 million dollars worth of CDs [salon.com]. These people don't care if I want to listen to good music. These people hate that I spend my money on bands I like, rather than no-talent pop-sensations. These people do not represent legitimate artists and recording companies - these people represent parasites, who take advantage of artists in able to fill their own pockets.
I can't use Audiogalaxy now. It got turned into a pay-service, and copyright restrictions wrecked the entire service. I buy far fewer records now, because I have less exposure to new artists. My friends still recommend bands to me; I'll read about a show someone went to in their livejournal, and I'll download an mp3, and if I like the band, I may end up buying a CD or some concert tickets. I'm a pirate, a felon, and a thief for that. This is insane.
Yes, there will be people out there who will never buy music, ever. They'll steal mp3s and burn hundreds of CDs. Whatever. There are people out there that pirate dvds, too. Yes, it does hurt the industry. What will hurt the industry more, though, is clinging to outdated business models and preying upon the artists that provide the foundation for the entire industry. These mega-corps could be capitalising upon free advertising, diversifying their portfolios. They could have a Spears for every genre going platinum, and without having to spend millions on full-page ads in Vanity Fair and putting giant billboards up in Times Square.
It won't happen. The big-wigs will continue to bleed their artists dry and fight all calls for change. And I'll continue to steal mp3s, listen to who I like, and buy CDs from talented artists who can't whore themselves out on Coca-Cola commercials, people whose success is based on actual artistic merit. So it goes.