Latest ID Theft Tactic: Fake Job Listings 195
citking writes "News.com.com reports that, in an attempt to curb identity theft on its service, online career listing site Monster.com has begun warning its users of fake job postings bent on stealing personal information. 'Regrettably, from time to time, false job postings are listed online and used to illegally collect personal information from unsuspecting job seekers', according to an e-mail sent by the company yesterday to registered users. With the increasingly difficult job market, things such as background checks and non-disclosure agreements are becoming more and more difficult to avoid, so where does one draw the line for giving out personal information in response to a classified ad? CNN has a small article about this as well."
Attention! (Score:3, Funny)
Have you been a victim of identity fraud?
Don't know where to turn?
Well worry no longer! I can track down all activities of your online "alter ego", and for free! To apply, simply supply me with the following personal details, and I will search for all online transactions using these details
Re:Attention! (my name?) (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Attention! (Score:2, Interesting)
(Those are all useful keywords to search for
Why would I want to steal the ID.... (Score:1, Funny)
Re:Why would I want to steal the ID.... (Score:2)
uhhh. its called ebay.
i don't mind (Score:1, Funny)
Nigerian Job Offers (Score:4, Funny)
So when the job offers from Nigeria that need my bank account number to pay me start arriving , I will know what to do.
How long before... (Score:2, Interesting)
Separate email for employers? (Score:2)
The real solution is to think over what sort of info the employers NEED. Are you applying at Wal-Mart? Does the "contact" with the hotmail email address really need your SSN for a background check before the interview?
Some jobs you're just going to have to go out on a limb for. However, if you're going for employment at a tech company like I am, then you might want to examine their contact info. Is their email address the same as the site for the company? Have you called them via phone first? Can you find that phone number listed elsewhere (google)? If everything seems okay by this point, there's not much else you can do if you want a good-paying job with a company that wants to examine your background (be it for clearances or anything else).
In summary, use common sense.
My name. (Score:4, Insightful)
Sure, they'll need to know more details eventually; but that can wait until after I've met them in person.
Re:My name. (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:My name. (Score:2)
How many jobs have you actually found, initially supplying only your name?
You think maybe this tactic, even if it does work for you in this terrible job market, will work for somebody with a rather common name?
Re:My name. (Score:2)
Re:My name. (Score:2)
Not if you're named John Smith. Google has its limits.
Besides, as cool as that sounds (yes, I have a graduate degree from an internationally famous university, so I'm not just jealous), it's no guarantee that people will even acknowledge your resume these days. I really wonder when this person last looked for a job the hard way.
You'd think so, wouldn't you? (Score:2)
Now, I'm no longer in that scene, being a graduate school survivor, but when I was, I remember getting a request from a Swiss library asking whether I had any spare copies of "my book" 'Manifold Theory'. (The library's copy had been stolen, and it was out of print.) Of course I'm not the person they were looking for, and in fact (I believe) that the author was in fact already dead at the time they asked. (an odd coda is that a paperback version [amazon.com] is now back in print)
So really, names aren't always that useful, even in a slightly specialized field.
Re:My name. (Score:2)
Not necessarily. Most jobs are not filled by someone who mailed in a resume; most jobs are filled by someone who was personally recommended by a friend or cow-orker of the person doing the hiring.
In the past, this would have meant being told "company X has a job you might be interested in, send them a resume"; in many cases it is now possible for company X to find enough basic information about you to invite you for an interview without asking for a resume first.
Of course, this does depend upon you not being confused with someone else of the same name; I know of three people who share my name, but fortunately (for me) their web presences are quite limited.
Re:My name. (Score:2)
Re:My name. (Score:3, Funny)
D Phil at Oxford in Computational Number Theory, eh? You're probably right. Lesser mortals, however, may not be so lucky.
Still, I like your arrogance.
Re:My name. (Score:2)
(Following my own post. Bad karma.)
OK, OK, so I under-estimated you. Canuck Boy Wonder who first enrolled at his home town University to study maths at age 13, violin virtuoso, holder of at least one record for finding digits in the value of PI, 6th best mathematical student in the whole of North America... I thought at first glance that there were several Colin Percivals being described by Google, but now I see it's just one.
I thought you were a bit young to be doing a D Phil.
No, I don't think you need ever bother to write a CV. Other people's mileage, however, will differ.
Re:My name. (Score:2)
Assuming you're talking about the Putnam (which isn't really a fair benchmark -- it's heavily weighted in favour of discrete mathematics, which happens to be what I'm good at), I was "in the top 6", not necessarily 6th. The competition organizers refuse to give out the exact ranking of the people in the top 6, instead just ranking us all at "Putnam Fellows".
I thought at first glance that there were several Colin Percivals being described by Google, but now I see it's just one.
No, there are several. There's one here [pesgb.org.uk] involved in petroleum exploration, and another one [uclan.ac.uk] doing tech support in Lancashire. There's also a Colin Percival involved in marketing for an Australian engineering firm, and another Australian Colin Percival who died in 1992.
Sending resumes out never works anyway. (Score:5, Informative)
In this economy, employers get THOUSANDS of resumes for every job posting. Most of course, are garbage dot-com resumes [callipygian.com] or from other unqualified individuals. It's nearly impossible for a good resume to break through the signal-to-noise ratio.
And high-quality companies will not have to resort to advertising jobs in this economy, except to fulfill some "equal opportunity" requirement, showing that all new jobs are publically posted.
My advice: Stay away from Monster and other job boards. Get friends who are working at the companies you're interested in to submit your resume for you. If you have no contacts in a particular company, hand deliver your resume, or send it US mail. At least, your resume will stand out this way.
Re:Sending resumes out never works anyway. (Score:1)
In general, though, I agree that simply responding to thoses posts is not worth as much as "networking" (to verb a noun).
Worked for me (Score:4, Informative)
Of course, YMMV.
Amen to that (Score:5, Funny)
1. The employer never sees you in your nice crisp suit as you deliver the resume.
2. The employer never has your resume on his desk, in physical form, printed on quality paper stock.
From the employers point of view, it's nice for them to know that an applicant is capable of completing a task, even one as mundane as locating their office, and delivering a resume, without accidently lighting him/herself on fire along the way.
Re:Amen to that (Score:2)
Re:Amen to that (Score:5, Interesting)
I realize that you can't walk into a large company, get to see a hiring manager, and hand him your resume. Still, you need to get above the noise. Quality employers get THOUSANDS of resumes, mostly junk, for every posting.
So, what I did was get some of those yellow string-fasterner "Interoffice Memo" envelopes at an office supply store. I drove around to the companies I was interested and gave my resume to the receptionist in one of these envelopes marked "HR/Staffing".
My theory was that resumes that got to HR this way would be presumed to be from an employee! While I can't prove the exact reason why this worked better, I can say that I got a response to nearly all resumes I submitted this way! It's worth a try.
Re:Amen to that (Score:3, Interesting)
So, how many interviews are you looking at?
Re:Sending resumes out never works anyway. (Score:2)
Almost never... I did get my current job that way. While it's no nirvana it has been steady work through tough times. And since we are a small company these job sites do offer us a way to get in front of a lot of candidates - although I do admit that most of the resumes we get don't come close to meeting the job requirements and go straight into the trash.
Re:Sending resumes out never works anyway. (Score:3, Interesting)
According to various newspaper companies, the amount of jobs being listed in the classifieds is the lowest it has been since 1960. It is very bad if you're unemployed currently. I went to a job expo and there were literally tens of thousands of unemployed job seekers for only a few dozen jobs at the most. It was terrible. The energy crisis is definitely not helping the situation either. Pray that things go well in Iraq and that the oil fields are not burned or damaged.
According to NPR if Sadaam burns his own oil fields analysts predict prices will rise to $80 a barrel! This would make gas $4.00 a gallon! This will differently bring the country into a deeper recession rivaling the 1930's and bring tens of more millions of people into the unemployment line competeting with you for any job.
Re:Sending resumes out never works anyway. (Score:2)
Well... this is off-topic, but... why on earth would Saddam burn "his own" oil fields?
What puzzles me is why people (even smart ones) make the logical leap from "he burnt Kuwaits oild fields" to "he will burn Iraq's oil fields", without thinking of obvious differences.
In case of Kuwait, SH was just playing sour loser and trying to prevent Kuwaitians (plus allies) from benefiting from their oil, when we knew he'd be asskicked out. In case of Iraq, it's "his" oil. Iraq will still have the oil, no matter what the outcome (unless you really believe in extreme conspiracy theories). There's hardly point in burning any of it. It won't slow US troops down; it's like panting in your pants to prevent cops from arresting you. Unlikely to work to say the least.
Re:Sending resumes out never works anyway. (Score:2)
Most of course, are garbage dot-com resumes [callipygian.com] or from other unqualified individuals. It's nearly impossible for a good resume to break through the signal-to-noise ratio.
Hey! I'm one of those people you're throwing out! It so happens that I am very qualified for the stuff that I do (C++ development on Unix, Win32). Just because a lot of unqualified people worked at dot-coms doesn't mean that we are all idiots. Since you're looking for someone to blame, why not look at the VCs and underwriters who supplied millions to anyone who could spell internet and conspired to fleece investors?
Ironic (Score:3, Funny)
"Wanted: Tech professionals needed at top companies now [zdnet.com]"
I don't see any warnings about ID theft there, though...
Re:Ironic (Score:3, Informative)
Yeah, that is an excellent link - to Dice.com, a job site that is in Chapter 11 bankrupty. Good thing, too. Their jobs are always the same, and their site is as buggy as all get out.
I thought job agancies already did this (Score:2, Insightful)
The line is drawn at where no information is given (Score:5, Insightful)
Even if monster had absolute highest employer screening methods, you are still trusting that monster has a secure server, that their network infrastructure is resistant to attack, that monster's employees will not illegitimately sell off your information, or anything else.
All this hassle and the hiring rates out of these sites remains dismal because there are so many applicants. To any unemployed /.ers out there, I suggest you read "What Color is Your Parachute?" by Richard Bolles. And follow its advice of hunting for jobs on foot.
Lucky for me (Score:2, Funny)
Same here! (Score:2)
Severe penalties (Score:5, Interesting)
If you steal ones identity, are found guilty of such crime, you should become an indentured servant of sorts having a portion of all your earnings being taken for compensation appropriate to the damage you cause. The frustrating thing is that many of these people that go about stealing identities appear to be functioning members of society and for whatever reason see fit to steal a family members, friends, or strangers identity and run up thousands of dollars of false debt.
Re:Severe penalties (Score:2, Insightful)
Only when employer confirms and employee doesn't complain is it safe to advance any money.
Current practice of lending money without properly verifying the identity of the applicant is the real crime here.
Past employers as well! (Score:5, Interesting)
A year later, I'd heard they'd gone under and had almost forgotten about them when I tried to refinance my wifes car and was turned down because of poor credit. Poor credit?!?! I'm a homeowner, I have five credit cards, and two car loans, and I had never been so much as a day late in making a payment. I had 10 years of history, and all my balances were low. So what do you think I found when I pulled my 3 agency report? A $1,400+ dollar Pacific Bell phone bill in collections, that went to CarHunting.Com Inc (they can't sue me for slander, the FBI is still trying to track the owner down for defrauding creditors and employees). A call to a couple former employees revealed that the companies phone service had been shut off shortly after I left, and that the owner had used MY name and MY SSN to secure a new account and get them turned back on. Most NORMAL people at that point would think that a simple phone call to the phone company could straighten this out, right? Wrong. It took two years of fighting, and three investigations, before the phone company would finally acknowledge that the bill wasn't mine and remove it from my credit report. Even the notarized affidavits from former employees, and work records showing that I'd been working soemwhere else at the time, weren't enough to convince them that it wasn't my bill. In fact, it wasn't until I hired a lawyer and the lawyer started talking to the FTC and they began talking about lawsuits for FCRA violations that the phone company finally caved and removed the bill.
So the risk soesn't exist only when applying for a job, but during and after your job as well. And it's ALWAYS a pain in the butt to fix this kind of stuff. A simple rule of thumb though, is to ONLY give personally identifiable information (birthdates, SSN's, etc) to companies that you can verify are real and trustworthy. And DON'T work for scum. If a company will screw its customers, it'll probably screw its employees too.
Re:Past employers as well! (Score:2)
That should teach you turning them in to the BSA. Disgruntled ex-employers can be nasty too!
Re:Past employers as well! (Score:2)
Most NORMAL people at that point would think that a simple phone call to the phone company could straighten this out, right? Wrong. It took two years of fighting, and three investigations, before the phone company would finally acknowledge that the bill wasn't mine and remove it from my credit report.
Nope, don't call the phone company about your credit report. Dispute the line with each credit agency, as the phone company will likely fail to respond within their alloted time, thus requiring that the line be removed.
After that, go and fight with the phone company. Of course, your experience is exactly what you should expect - they're the phone company, they don't have to care.
Re:Severe penalties (Score:2)
Probably because if society did start sending people to jail for longer terms for this sort of thing, then credit issuing companies would be under more pressure to properly verify identity before issuing credit, which would mean fewer credit accounts and less money for them. I mean, how hard is it to find a person's mother's maiden name online, with all the genealogies being published on the web?
Re:Severe penalties (Score:2)
Against Monster terms of use... (Score:3, Funny)
Gosh, I hope so ;-).
Damn . . . (Score:5, Funny)
Job - Software Developer (Score:5, Funny)
Excellent opportunity for pseudo-elite narcissistic code-monkeys with mediocre GPA's, 2 years Everquest experience and a predilection for sleazy pornography.
Starting salary $75k-$100k ***
*** In order to be eligible for this introductory salary offer, please sign and overnight the available forms at reputable recruiting services [signyourlifeaway.com].
Fake Job Listing as Sales Tool (Score:3, Interesting)
Watch out for cults to (Score:4, Interesting)
Anyways, you'll get alot of e-mails from them on job sites as well.
Re:Watch out for cults to (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Watch out for cults to (Score:2)
Re:Watch out for cults to (Score:2)
The androids at Arthur Andersen were worse though.
Another reason to avoid them... (Score:5, Interesting)
This is just another reason to avoid agencies, they truly are a parasitic bunch.
Over here in the UK I was looking for work last year, and scoured the local agencies. Many, many times I'd apply for a position only to be told eventually that it didn't exist. The agency just wanted to know how many Perl Programmers were around.
Worse than that, though, is the way that several agencies will advertise the same position with subtly different descriptions - and you don't realise until you get called for an interview. In one case an agency told me that they wouldn't put me forward for a position I was applying for because I'd also registered with another agency!
I've started keeping track of bad (and the rare good) agencies in Edinburgh - if you're local feel free to look at the list [steve.org.uk] and submit your experiences.
(Yes that was a plug, and yes the section needs updating)
Re:Another reason to avoid them... (Score:2)
They do it so they can build up a large collection of CVs. They can then go to major employers and say "do your recruitment through us, we've got x0,000 programmers on our books, we can fill all the positions you need, deal with us exclusively, only a 15% cut per placement".
I had to search for a job a few months ago. At first it seemed like there were hundreds of jobs which would suit me. There weren't. Not by a long way. (I was lucky - I got a job through a contact).
Re:Another reason to avoid them... (Score:2)
This is quite normal and understandable, but it shouldn't take until the interview to find out that it's the same job. Ideally they'd talk to you first on the phone.
An employment agency doesn't want to present someone who's already being presented by another agency. It'd be like two competing products approaching an advertising agency. It's silly because one side of the deal has an obvious conflict of interests. In the first case it's you (who has two agencies) and in the second case it's the advertisers (who have two products).
In theory I guess you could argue that the employment agency is presenting several people for the job instead of just you, but they can do that because they're in a better position than you are.
When I was job hunting a while ago several job agencies were often looking for people from the same job. The first question every one of them would ask once they'd described the job to me in more detail on contacting them was if I was already talking to another agency about it. If I was, they can't also represent me.
Re:Another reason to avoid them... (Score:2)
Depends on what you mean by "graduates".
It's true that there are lots of small IT companies in and around Cambridge; there are two whole business parks full of them, for a start, one of which is basically a collection of new start-ups just getting off the ground. Quite a few Cambridge University graduates stay on in the area and get jobs with these places; short of getting something in London, the market is probably better in East Anglia than most places in the UK just now.
On the other hand, I find the numbers you gave a bit suspect. Those two business parks I mentioned only house a few hundred companies, and Cambridge isn't a big city, so where are the other 14,000? Also, given that there are two universities in Cambridge, and between them they only have a total annual graduation of a few thousand people, your numbers would suggest that several whole universities' worth of graduates came to Cambridge to work for all those companies that I've never seen. Something doesn't add up somewhere.
Did your figures perhaps refer to Cambridgeshire, the county, rather than just Cambridge, the city? Or maybe "graduates" includes everyone who started working for these companies straight out of uni, even if they've now been there a decade?
Re:Another reason to avoid them... (Score:2)
Ah, I see. Yes, if you're talking about all graduates, the number quoted is quite credible (though I too suspect rather fewer companies). As anyone who comes into Cambridge on the southbound A14 in the morning can testify, commuting isn't always a good plan, though... :-/
Re:Another reason to avoid them... (Score:2)
If the interviewer knew about such things, he/she would not be working as an interviewer!
You gotta love this URL: (Score:2)
(i mean the URL _itself_ not the page it goes to - that's just a news story about this issue).
Well Duh! (Score:2)
Does the public really need to be educated on this?
I would NEVER give that information out until I was sitting across the table from the prospective employer or at least had a verifiable phone number and did it over the phone..even then I think it would have to be face to face for me to be comfortable.
It just seems like a "Well Duh don't do that" type of message...
Oh Darn (Score:2, Funny)
Recourse for the victims? (Score:2)
Once your SSN gets out and has been used for fraud, you're still stuck with it! The SSN bureau will not replace it for any reason. With four separate credit bureaus with their own secret databases, it's pretty much impossible to clear your own record.
What probably needs to happen is a small branch of the FBI that is devoted to investigating identity theft and, most importantly, who has the power to go to all four bureaus and push through some name-clearing on behalf of the victims. It'd be a much better use of taxpayer money than having the FBI infiltrate antiwar movements and discredit them.
Re:MYTH: There are unwilling identity theft victim (Score:4, Informative)
If your credit record is tarnished, it can be more difficult to:
* Buy a house
* Rent an apartment
* Buy/lease/rent a car
* Obtain airline tickets
* Get a job! (Yes, employers now check credit records)
All of the above is more aggravated by the fact that the credit card companies, far from being inconvenienced much by the theft, acutally BENEFIT in the form of offering you only extremely high interest loans for some very important things. Try to buy a house in the SF Bay Area on bad credit. Got $800,000 cash, right now, in your bank account? Sorry.
Clever troll, but people whose reputations in a digital world get tarnished are victims, and DO deserve recourse.
Re:MYTH: There are unwilling identity theft victim (Score:2)
You imply that having an identity stolen and false credit opened up under your name goes hand in hand with patronizing these businesses. It's entirely possible for a criminal to steal your identity and obtain credit from, for example, Mastercard -- without you ever patronizing them.
That's what identity theft is. You didn't patronize Mastercard at all -- the criminal did under your name. However, anyone who looks at your credit record is presented with "official" evidence that you're a deadbeat who patronizes Mastercard. That makes it your problem whether you use them or not.
I would take your Soprano analogy and make it fit more with what we're talking about. Person A goes to the Sopranos and obtains a loan with person B's name. 10 months later after non-payment, Person B's knees get broken. Is this B's fault for lying with the dogs?
No.
Re:MYTH: There are unwilling identity theft victim (Score:2)
To make your Soprano's analogy more correct, Person B's knees get broken only later when THEY GO TO TONY for a loan.
----
I take it you've never taken out a loan from a less than reputable loan shark. I assure you, fail to pay the mob money they think you owe them, and the thugs will come find you, not wait for you to request a second loan.
As it is for credit. If your reputation is tarnished, even though you do not USE credit agencies, those people who assume the records to be correct (Landlord, potential bosses, police) will punish you on the merit of the bad data.
It is your problem, everyones problem, whether you choose to participate or not. The more digital the world becomes, the more it becomes a problem.
Re:MYTH: There are unwilling identity theft victim (Score:2)
I have many friends and family members just as stupid as you are.
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and people like you will always be more likely to stick by it as long as you get spread a little of it over to people like me.
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Now you fuckers are building up a potential disaster.
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---
If you want to continue to hold your position that society owes you protection from your own choice of a bullshit way to handle money and reputation,
---
Your assumptions about me are incorrect -- I'm not a credit fiend or a willing patron of the system. Nor do I believe that tax money should be spent sheltering a broken system. You have assumed that, for some reason. I simply acknowlege that the system is there, and is not going away soon. Rather than rail against the system for being broken, I'd like it fixed.
In case you missed the point I was making earlier, I'm *not* calling for bailing anyone out. I'm calling for reform in the system. I'm calling for accountability on the part of the credit bureaus and, since that accountability doesn't come lightly, I'm calling for the institutions we already fund to be authorized to push forward that accountability on behalf of the victims of crime.
However, you continue making false assumptions and persist in childish name-calling. You're losing me as an audience, here. I didn't even get past "you fuckers are..." before I stopped paying attention to your response. Not the best way to make a point, dude.
Re:MYTH: There are unwilling identity theft victim (Score:2)
Of course, you can't forget that our currency is no longer "real", ie backed by gold or chickens or whatever. The value of the dollars you possess is dervied by the potential profit realized through interest paid on government debt.
Essentially, if usury were to be outlawed tomorrow by constitutional amendment, our entire financial system would collapse.
I feel just like you do, but debt is such a foundation of our society, it can't be swept away. I choose not to participate in the debt system, but I shudder when I think about the future...
Re:MYTH: There are unwilling identity theft victim (Score:2)
(Don't start lecturing me on Economics and Wizard of Oz, I know all that
Re:MYTH: There are unwilling identity theft victim (Score:2)
You answered your own question. The relative scarcity of gold, combined with its resistance to corrosion and resulting long life, and its aesthetic qualities make it an ideal currency.
I don't particularly care what the currency is, but it either must be scarce and virtually impossible to forge, or it must be actually useful (like chickens).
The reason a piece of paper is a poor currency is because it can be instantly created, making it worthless over time. This is in fact what happens.
This is obviously a huge debate, but as you can see, the term "real" is quite applicabale. Paper is not a real currency because anyone can make it.
I don't believe people should have the hard earned fruits of their labor devalued. Whether by companies screwing the shareholders byt issuing more stock "awards" to their executives, or the government secretly taxing the people by inflating the currency, or a thief counterfeiting money.
Its all wrong. Gold is our best solution to this problem, at least until that can be easily created.
Of course, in time, money will be useless. I am not sure if that enlightened age will come, but it will.
Re:MYTH: There are unwilling identity theft victim (Score:2)
And what about if I need to borrow money to buy a fucking car? Or a house? Or any other more reasonable example that groceries?
The credit agency system also affects people which don't use credit cards. And then there are those occasions where you simply cannot do without a credit card (renting a car, certain online purchases, purchasing petrol after hours, ...)
Not a troll: he's right. (Score:2)
About ten years ago, the credit reporting companies merged my credit (non-existent at the time) with my mother's (bad), because we had the same birthday and same first name (long story) and, obviously, the same last name and she died about the time I got my first job. It was the best thing that ever happened to me, because it forced me to learn to live without credit.
Re:MYTH: There are unwilling identity theft victim (Score:2)
And here is where you prove yourself to be an retarded fuck. Why don't you just shop at places that don't deal with credit cards? Just because you can't find any, you complain about getting ripped off? Well, aren't you just a little self-contradicting parasite.
Surely, if you have even one iota of right to complain about getting ripped off because you choose to shop at locations you believe rip you off, everyone else has infinitely more right to complain about unregulated tyranny of credit agencies. At least everyone else is being a reasonable parasite instead of an asshole self-righteous parasite.
I used to be a libertarian, but then I realized that we live in an economy of scum bags, and you either deal with the scum bags or you starve to death. Any government action to limit the power of large corporate scum bags is A-OK in my book. You don't like it? Then go back to the state of nature and leave me alone.
Re:MYTH: There are unwilling identity theft victim (Score:2)
In any event, although I too have no credit card, I see no difference between getting "ripped off" by a merchant who pays money to a credit company and getting "ripped off" by a merchant who pays money for air conditioning I don't like. I also see no difference between your having to deal with merchants who accept credit cards and other people having to deal with credit reports.
Re:Recourse for the victims? (Score:2)
So you don't use a credit card. Then an identity thief just applies for one in your name. All is fine until you need to borrow money to buy a house, or until you apply for a job that does a background check. Even without credit cards, identity theft can hurt you.
How many people get jobs through this method? (Score:5, Interesting)
I got my current job because I went to Uni with someone who was already working there; the interview was basically "this is what you have to do. How much would you like?"
Unfortunately, it's not always what you know, it's who you know that gets you a job.
Most, but that is no help if you don't know who (Score:2)
Most people get a job through contacts. I can't recall the exact numbers, but something like 3/4ths.
Unfortunatly that doesn't help if you don't know the right people. All the programers I know personally are out of work, so they won't help me get a job until they get one themselves. (or the rare case where they know they won't get it so they recomend me cause I might - that isn't like knowing someone at the company though)
Re:Most, but that is no help if you don't know who (Score:2)
I've never gotten a job through any other means, ever the crappy jobs I had during University were gotten through friends/family.
It's undoubtably the best way to go about it.
This is my dream (Score:2)
I *live* for the day when I score a job by going to a sushi bar with someone and hunkering down on sea urchin!
CIFAS (Score:2)
http://www.cifas.org.uk/
Welcome to the contractor world! (Score:5, Interesting)
If they want to know contact names for employers, they ask you for references from your last employer.
If anyone advertises a job, everyone else advertises the same spec, only 'nicer' then submits your CV to the first agency without the contact details and asks for a cut.
If they want to know whose hiring they quiz you on any interviews you've attended recently.
In reality the only real jobs come from family and friends who happen to need work done.
I have programmer friends who work in gas stations, as cleaners, shelf stackers and other manual jobs and they're lucky they have those. Competition is tough in the manual labour market aswell.
Dubyas an ass.
CV == curriculum vitae (Score:2)
CV stands for "curriculum vitae", and Dictionary.com says it's pretty much the same as a résumé [reference.com], but CV can be typed with fewer keystrokes (Caps C V Caps vs. R Alt 0 2 3 3 S U M Alt 0 2 3 3).
The left hand giveth, and the right hand ... (Score:5, Insightful)
I checked my job-search-only e-mail account, and found this message from Monster:
Okay, nice of them to look out for me. So I log into Monster, and what's the very first thing I see?This was on a web page served by FastWeb ("a Monster company"). I had to click "No" to get to my Monster home page.
Ug.
P.S.: My journal [slashdot.org] contains the stupidest, funniest job ads I've come across in the past year.
What about legitimate companies? (Score:3, Insightful)
The trend around here is that temporary worker providers is getting into more and more advanced markets, and the positions filled can't always be said to be temporary.
When one of these companies are hired for recruiting services for their customers you can get disclaimers that the applications can be used for statistical or 'corporate purposes within the said firm.
Isn't it a more immediate threat that more and more information is processed by these kind of middlemen with no real ethics of their own other than to find new ways to earn money. I think that any data could be used for data-mining, and if you have to attach disclaimers of your own to prevent it I can't see that it will be some rare exceptions...
fake jobs... (Score:2, Funny)
Someone didn't think this through... (Score:5, Funny)
No real loss to me. (Score:4, Insightful)
This is why 'national id' is bad (Score:2)
And don't tell me its not a requirement, as most any retailer will just refuse to do business with you if you want an account.. or to work for them.
What the government cant do directly, they let the business world to do it for them in effect.
"we cant restrict that, so lets let insurance rates go up on that part of the public..that will curb that 'problem' "
Just wait until the next national ID system goes into effect, opening up so many more opportunities to these criminals.
some stats (Score:4, Interesting)
we were told that approx. 60-80% of jobs are in the 'hidden' market and that roughly 50% of people who find there next job find it via networking. for IT postions we were told roughly 10-15% find their next job listed on sites like monster, careerbuilder, etc.
so while it is certainly not out of the realm of possibility, we were instructed how to network, even if you don't know a single person at the firm you are targeting. dealing with HR is one of the best ways to assure yourself you won't find a job.
good luck to all those looking for work!
Re:networking scum (Score:2)
when i called all my friends after being laid off to tell them i just got the axe = that was networking.
when my pops tells some of his friends that i just got laid off = that is networking
when i tell the dude who cuts my hair that i got laid off = that is networking
the gist is, networking, i.e. letting people know you are looking for work and seeing what they might know, doesn't have to be with complete strangers.
if you are unwilling to care/help your friends when they might need you (e.g. if your place of employment has an opening for a tech writer and your friend, a tech writer just got laid off) then i guess your definition of 'friend' is different than mine.
now it is to be mentioned that when our career transition company told us to network, they were also talking about how you meet/greet and find out about jobs from people you are not friendly with.
but the term 'networking' is not as nefarious as you make it. you may prefer to use a more business-agnostic term....
I got sick of posting my resume because (Score:2)
Craigslist, Monster, svjobs, hotjobs, all of them I suspect of either a)selling my personal informations or b) maintained weak security in both their systems or their policies which resulted in the afformentioned "annoyances"
And i'm really sorry to the afformentioned websites either, I don't mean to accuse you but hot damn my inbox / home POTS line gets filled with crap everytime i've used your service.
Hell, _that's_ not the latest id theft gig.... (Score:2)
Zero Knowledge (Score:3, Insightful)
Need to know if I can legally work in the country? Here's my certificate from HRDC. Need to give me a paycheck? Here's a unique deposit number from my bank. Need to do a credit check? Here's a certificate from my bank. etc.
Headhunters HOSE your resumeé (Score:4, Interesting)
I can tell you this - after a headhunter firm gets done with your resumeé, it will look like hammered shit with a side order of pus.
When I've created a resumeé, I laser printed it on high rag content, off white bond with matching envelopes. It was laid out logically, with a proper cover letter. I followed every rule of style, every trick of layout to make my resumeé stand out.
What I've seen from the headhunters were low-rez fuzzy pixelated faxes that looked like the original was laid out by a blind spastic monkey with no comprehension of the English language.
We would pull in a somewhat promising candidate and I'd say "Well, on your resumeé it says you have experience in C++ - " "WHAT? I'm a COBOL programmer - let me see that".
I'd far rather talk to somebody who showed the initiative to send us his resumeé directly than somebody who just sent his CV to a headhunter.
(And yes, I have recommended to my boss that we not use those headhunter firms again.)
Re:Headhunters HOSE your resumeé (Score:2)
This is a tricky one. I've suffered the same thing: beautifully typeset resume, as provided by me, turned into Word document in Courier with dull and boring written all over it, as provided by agency.
Then again, six months after having my own well-presented CV with covering letter rejected by a potential employer, I got a job at that particular place of employment via a reputable agency. At that point, you have to wonder whether the agencies are actually onto something when they claim to know what their employers want.
Then again, it could just be that the vacancy didn't really exist six months earlier, and did by the time I got serious about looking again and went to the agency. From my now-insider perspective, this seems an equally plausible explanation, and I guess I'll never know...
SSN... (Score:2)
It's honestly becoming more and more difficult to do anything without at least a SSN. The problem is, companies are all too often willing to give credit on a SSN and a signature...the only way to keep Identity theft from happening is to have built-in checks in the system...but this is easier said than done...
Where, indeed. (Score:2)
Name, address, phone number, spam-proofed (or at least filtered) email address. That's it. Nothing past that in something that's going out via the 'net.
Potential employer (or identity thief) wants more than that, I'll be (more) willing to give it out in person. Not over the phone, fax, carrier pigeon...
Re:Where, indeed. (Score:2)
Re:Where, indeed. (Score:2)
My experience (in interviewing for software developer jobs) is that once you get through the door, you talk to some number of real people (project and/or program managers, techies who actually do the work, etc.) and *then* you talk to an HR rep who gives you the company-standard employment application to fill out. This employment application tends to be select bits of info from a resume, plus weaselly things like "Date and reason you left that job".
My take on it is this: if I don't have warm fuzzies about the people/company/position, then they get nothing more from me. I don't fill out the application, as I've no intention of continuing talks with them.
I'd like to think that my bullsh*t detector would go off if it turned out that I was talking to information harvesters.
Re:Where, indeed. (Score:2)
Oh well; I ignore them.
Re:Prison labor (Score:2)