CAPPS II Trials Begin in March 287
corporal_clegg writes "According to this story on FoxNews, in March Delta Airlines will begin using a federal database that incorporates credit history and bank records in an effort to identify potential security threats. The federal system - CAPPS II (Computer Assisted Passenger Prescreening System) - will assign a "threat level" to passengers based upon information in the database and other criteria, such as whether the individual is on government watch lists. 'CAPPS II will collect data and rate each passenger's risk potential according to a three-color system: green, yellow, red. When travelers check in, their names will be punched into the system and the boarding passes encrypted with the ranking.' The scary thing is that no one really knows which databases the government will use or how long the records will remain. Slashdot covered this story in September 2002, and it now seems that the first airline is ready to give it a try. In addition to the links in the previous Slashdot article, a good background on CAPPS II can be found here." Actually, the last story we did on passenger profiling was just a week or two ago.
Ironic... (Score:5, Insightful)
Today? We are getting a "security" implementation that(purportedly) keeps the information it collects for 50 years. This has been disputed, by the Transportation Department, but it appeared in print, and the retraction was not.
Sad, sad.
sigh... (Score:5, Insightful)
- We don't know what airports this is going to be run at.
- We don't know what databases are going to be used
- What if some of the information is erroneous? How can we correct our own "profile"?
- Lastly...what does my credit check have to do with whether or not I'm going to blow up a plane?
And then they wonder why almost every single airline in the United States is at or near bankruptcy.
"Killing America in the Name of Security"
Re:sigh... (Score:1, Insightful)
I'm hoping at all of them.
>We don't know what databases are going to be used
"we" as in "I" don't care.
>What if some of the information is erroneous? How can we correct our own "profile"?
The same way you can correct your own profile now.
>Lastly...what does my credit check have to do with whether or not I'm going to blow up a plane?
I thought "we" didn't know what databases were going to be used?
>And then they wonder why almost every single airline in the United States is at or near bankruptcy.
This one I can answer;
Airlines are/were driven on profit. Hassling people at the gates would cut into profit, hence sercurity sucked. Paying people who actually knew something about security would cut into profit, hence security sucked. If people bitched about too much security and stopped flying, it would cut into profit, hence security sucked.
Security sucked so bad that 19 arabs, some with shady backgrounds that should/would have come up on govt watch lists easily boarded airplanes, hijacked them and turned them into guided bombs, murdering 3000 people.
So quite frankly if knowing that these systems are in place discourages (or gasp, even catches in the act) any terrorist, I'M ALL FOR IT.
So there.
Now WE know (Score:5, Insightful)
I am poor so I must be a threat.. (Score:1, Insightful)
But how does the fact that I've missed three car payments tell anyone anything about me.
The terrorists appear to be winning, one little piece (of my civil liberties) at a time.
Not a troll, but... (Score:5, Insightful)
Monitoring bank and credit reports will flag questionable purchases like, oh, let's say, 2 tons of fertilizer and a Ryder truck. But what about the ones who don't exhibit that kind of behavior? Credit reports and bank activity aren't going to prevent a hijacker alone, in my opinion.
Flight (Score:5, Insightful)
I fear that things will degenerate so greatly, that nothing short of armed insurrection will return it to the path of its founders' intent. I fear that day, because if force becomes necessary, then it is already too late.
What about other means of transportation? (Score:4, Insightful)
My wife and I both predict that within 10 years (most likely less) it will be required to carry "papers" while you travel, even in your car, not just on a plane or some such. Interstate travel will start to be as arduous as international travel. It's quite sickening, actually...
Re:And instead of applauding... (Score:3, Insightful)
Great... (Score:2, Insightful)
I love the land of the free.
Re:sigh... (Score:5, Insightful)
Boycott Delta (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:And instead of applauding... (Score:1, Insightful)
Seems a drug dealer was able to work out that cops generally didn't search old ladies for drugs. They don't fit the profile.
I'm sure a terrorist couldn't exploit such an obvious flaw.
Of course it will be much harder to find a suitable person to slip through this system . And even if they did, they would pay them in a manner that was obvious to law enforcement.
We all know its about making people feel happy that somethings being done, even if it doesnt make a real difference, costs alot of money and discriminates against some other group.
Don't ask yourself "Is this system (or proposed law) fair for me?", ask yourself "Is this system (or proposed law) fair for EVERY one?"
Re:Not really.. (Score:5, Insightful)
If I was denied, at boarding time, the ability to travel, instead of when I bought the ticket, I would be one very loud and pissed off guy. Credit has nothing to do with travel rights.
Right now, I'm taking my Delta frequent flyer miles and giving them to the make a wish foundation. They have lost my business forever. If all airlines do this, I guess I'll be driving a lot.
Re:One more reason to get my BFR done (Score:2, Insightful)
Let's see, guy arrested for selling modchips, cease and desist letters sent to sites distrobuting OpenOffice, Lexmark suing third party toner refillers and now this...
I really think it's time to rename "Your Rights Online" to "Another one Bites the Dust". My rights have all left.
It really freaks me out that if I want to get on an airplane, I'm assigned a risk factor based on who knows what kind of information. But if I wanted to buy a gun, I can just go down to Wal-Mart.
Of course, if I sold modchips or toner cartredges I refilled, or the RIAA happens to notice the MP3s on my server (never mind they're original songs I wrote), I'm a criminal. Let's just hope CAPPS II isn't tied into any kind of RIAA piracy database...
Random is best! (Score:3, Insightful)
If there is any "methodology" at all to doing this profiling there is a danger that you would just probe the system till you discover the "right" person to send through.
Keep sending through different kinds off people until you know who you can send that would never get checked.
Random is the way to go.
Jesus... (Score:5, Insightful)
Not that any of this stuff is even necessary to prevent hijacking (just lock the cabin door, and have passengers fight back), or bombing (use bomb detectors!). Simple, obvious things like that are the way to prevent 9/11 type disasters, not creepy big-brother bullshit.
Its nothing more then a power-grab by totalitarians.
Obviously stupid searches are good (Score:5, Insightful)
Whenever you focus your attention on one catagory of people, you make it easier then it could be for another group. All the terrorists have to do is fly their members around a lot, and see who gets checked most often. The ones that don't, carry the bombs and stuff.
stupid searches are good (Score:3, Insightful)
Any time you focus more resources on one group, you have less on another. There's no getting around that. All the terrorists need to do is send their agents on lots of flights to see which ones get checked least often, and use them to carry the weapons/bombs.
Re:And instead of applauding... (Score:2, Insightful)
Within arms reach (Score:2, Insightful)
I hate to say it, have for a long time avoided thinking about it. But people really are that stupid. Just can't think about anything that's not within arms reach. Anything they're not exactly in the middle of is beyond comprehension. So lacking reason, they resort to whatever primitive analogs are available, such as emotion. "It feels good to know efforts are underway to ensure my safety."
Uhh, yeah, times have changed, SOCIALISM IS BETTER (Score:1, Insightful)
Banning the private ownership of all guns is necessary to make you unable to resist socialism. Gun owners and their families must be brutally killed and they must be shown to be MONSTERS and CRIMINALS to the masses!!
The people should be taxed at 100% of their incomes and the government can divvy it up fairly with exceptions for the government and the rulers.
Anyone who doesn't support socialism is a monster who should be destroyed.
Simple Solution (Score:2, Insightful)
CAPPS is not meant to prevent terrorism. It is meant to keep dissidents under control, and if possible out of our country. It is also meant to justify the massive amounts of information that the government is now compiling on every one of us.
This is part of an obvious trend of policies that eliminate privacy and freedom. Fun activity: Next time the terrorist threat level goes from yellow to orange watch C-Span to learn about what new laws the Big Brother has planned to make us safer. There is a direct correlation between the "terror alert color" and how Orwellian government proposals get. Last time it was orange, Bush told us that we had to attack Iraq because they support terror, subtlely implying that by attacking Iraq we would reduce our terrorist threat.
Our president claims that invading a middleastern country will reduce our threat of terrorism. CAPPS is not about terrorism, just like Iraq is not about terrorism, just like (fill in the blank) is not about terrorism. Wake up and smell the government.
By the way, did anyone else see the news story about how hacked Direct TV cards support terrorism? Nothing supports terrorism more than paying your taxes.
No, but I do think... (Score:3, Insightful)
Some random searches are good, sure - but not at the level they are at which is impeding travel for everyone with no benefit that I can discern (do you really think someone couldn't get just about anything through if they really wanted to?). Frankly I would be fine with putting an impervious shield between the pilots and the passengers, and letting us cattle (even the first class cattle) take their chances with nothing more than the metal detectors at the security screening areas they have now and no more near-strip searches. Anyone that tries to take over a plane now is going to meet with stiff resistance from every passenger on the plane now that we all "know" what happens to planes that get hijacked, so I think pretty much all of the searches for things like boxcutters are the very definition of pointlessness.
Re:What about other means of transportation? (Score:1, Insightful)
I think that if it becomes that bad in the next 10 years, one should consider either 1) leaving the U.S. for good or, 2) figuring out the best way to get rid of our current government by whatever means and replacing it with one the the founders had in mind.
The Declaration of Independence does state that we not only have the right, but the moral obligation to replace a government that infringes apon personal liberty. This supersedes the constitution which is now pretty much in "exile".
Re:And instead of applauding... (Score:2, Insightful)
And does it work, if used in place of more substantial security? El Al, as you mentioned, really does have good security. Yes, it's expensive; yes, it would be very difficult to scale to the volume we need. But we need to decide how much we care about security -- and, if we care enough to do it right, replace "feel good" measures that violate privacy with little effect in favor of measures that actually work. I object quite strongly to gratuitous gathering of information -- but less so to actual security measures (like placing all luggage in decompression chambers prior to loading).
Additionally, I simply can't conceive of an algorithm for detecting terrorists so selective that it will flag only 1 in every 10^6 as red and still be able to catch the actual terrorists out of the crowd. I've dealt with neural network systems (probably one of the best ways of going about something like this) and have quite a bit of respect for them -- but simply not that much.
Certainly, relying on the security guard's judgement may not be much better -- but the grandparent post's claim that building a database with my banking information will "protect [my] way of life" is just a bit much to swallow.
Re:sigh... (Score:5, Insightful)
On the fourth plane, Flight 93, the passengers had cell phones and found out what was really going on, but too late to save the pilot. They sacrificed themselves to stop the terrorists. Had the pilot lived, they might have been able to bring the plane down safely.
On the Shoe-bomber's flight, the passengers knew the score, stopped the Shoe-bomber quickly, and landed safely.
Even in the World Trade Center itself, a complex which could hold up to 50,000 people, less than 3,000 died. The rest, tens of thousands of them, because of wise managers ordering evacuations, and many acts of heroism and compassion, helped each other out.
Why hasn't Al Qaeda attacked America again in this way? Because the people are on to them. These attacks have simply stopped working, because the passengers stopped them. Cowardly thugs that they are, the terrorists are now resorting to taking potshots with rocket launchers well away from any airport, and in places like Kenya rather than the US.
So what good is all your great security? It doesn't stop terrorists, because they are already stopped. It doesn't give Americans any security, in fact it violates the one right that guarantees that Americans will be "secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects", the Fourth Amendment of the Constitution.
CAPPS II violates the privacy and security of Americans. There is no warrant issued, and any probable cause is supposedly provided by the result of the CAPPS II search to justify more searching of their persons, blacklisting, and possible arrest. Combined with Patriot II (if and when it is passed) CAPPS II could turn an innocent vacation into a one way trip to Gitmo for the now former citizen, all because of a computer glitch or an error in one of the databases. And unlike your credit report, there is no law to allow you to view or correct the data that CAPPS II uses.
I have no interest in sacrificing my rights as a native US citizen just for some imagined safety. Even if CAPPS II was somehow able to prevent terrorist acts, it doesn't do a thing for accidents which killed 88,000 more Americans in 2001 than Al Qaeda killed.
Oh, and those 19 terrorists in 2001, they passed CAPPS I with flying colors.
"There is something important to do, no matter how hard or painful."
Mothra (via Moll) "Mothra 3: King Ghidora Attacks"
Re:sigh... (Score:3, Insightful)
Thus we had a system designed to prevent airplane hijacking that was forced to ignore the single most effective predictor: if the person is an Arab.
Without that political correctness (and a number of other stupid things done to the anti-terror apparatus and intelligence apparatus by the Carter and Clinton administration), it is highly likely that the terrorism would have been prevented with the original apprehension of Moussari (or however it's spelled).
I think they're using the wrong colours... (Score:2, Insightful)
Say it aint so (Score:1, Insightful)
I used to live in the US (93-95) and enjoyed it. The people are great. But all this carnivore/TIA/privacy stuff has really got me worried. I am not so naive that I dont believe these things go on here but thats not the point: Here I am, an anglophone, ex-US resident, graduate technologist BLANKING the USA as a place of residence or partner in business because I cannot be CONFIDENT that the US government will not interfere with me. That really caused me to take a step back and I think US
I admire the USA. No other society for 1000 years has taken on the projects the Americans have: Thousands of miles of railroad and telegraph across deserted plains, space exploration, WWII, the internet, etc etc. I and many others like me have admired the courage with which the US has met challenges and the dignity with which she has met disaster , such as 9/11 and the shuttle losses.
This is not American bashing - far from it. I simply hope that Bush wakes up some time soon and asks the question "What is it about American FOREIGN POLICY that makes people want to attack us? What has happened to these people that they are so enraged?"