Anti-Piracy Labeling Bill in Works 303
Rinisari writes "Just posted on news.com.com is an article with more on the bill that could make all digital consumer products be required to be labeled with information regarding any anti-piracy technology within the device. Senator Ron Wyden, D-OR, will be the primary sponser of the bill (he's also got a text-only site)."
Actually.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Not a bad idea (Score:5, Insightful)
Unfortunately, it probably won't stop most of the unwashed masses from buying the latest [fill in the name of the flavor du 'jour] CD.
About time! (Score:5, Insightful)
Good luck on this bill!
No Big Deal (Score:5, Insightful)
And further, as the technology becomes more and more popular, eventually, won't EVERY product have one of these labels on it?
Although this act seems like it could be a step in the right direction, I think it should be cut down before it wastes (American) tax-payers dollars.
Sounds good to me... (Score:4, Insightful)
I hate ever so much switching CDs.
Just as offensive as "explicit lyrics" (Score:4, Insightful)
It will also help sell "forward thinking artists" and labels who don't have the label.
I like it (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, I am aware of the irony of using that case for DRM, for the information people may need to use for good judgement can be hidden using DRM. I believe it is a weak arguement though.
Re:Fucking Democrats (Score:4, Insightful)
Opponents of Hollywood's drive to strengthen copyright law are mounting a new strategy: Require anything that has antipiracy technology built in to be clearly labeled and let consumers decide at the cash register.
So, they aren't trying to pass a law to require digital copyright protection on devices, they are trying to legislate disclosure of "anti-piracy" technology that might otherwise silently sit on that new CD player you are ready to buy from Circuit City.
Why are we bitching at the Democrats? Oh, because it was on slashdot and the genius editor posted it "from the compromising-freedom dept", so we don't have to actually read the the article before shouting profanities at the "Fucking Democrats".
It's really needed. (Score:5, Insightful)
Wait, aren't they on "our side"? (Score:5, Insightful)
So, they aren't trying to pass a law to require digital copyright protection on devices, they are trying to legislate disclosure of "anti-piracy" technology that might otherwise silently sit on that new CD player you are ready to buy from Circuit City.
Why are we bitching at the Democrats? Oh, because it was on slashdot and the genius editor posted it "from the compromising-freedom dept", so we don't have to actually read the the article before kicking into full knee-jerk mode.
"I want people to walk into every store in America and see that the product they're about to buy has restrictions," Wyden said. "Let's take this to the marketplace."
Uh, that's what we want, isn't it? (well, short of making the whole copyright BS go away, I mean).
Kind of like Magic Gate tech from Sony (Score:5, Insightful)
Labels like these are not the solution and only restrict manufacturer's rights and put a crimp on their profits for no reason whatsoever. Of course, Wyden is from Oregon and may have a small stake in the paper manufacturing increase that will necessarily occur if such a bill is passed.
Don't underestimate the "masses". (Score:5, Insightful)
And part of that is because nobody TOLD them there are consequences.
But as soon as warning labels start showing up, some of 'em will start to wonder what they're being warned about
So some will ask, or look around on the net, and maybe find out. Then they'll be able to make an informed decision about whether it matters to them enough to affect their purchase decision.
And others will just avoid products with the warning label in favor of those without - which will create pressure on the providers to stop using technologies which require a warning label. B-)
Don't underestimate joe sixpack. Just because he isn't an expert on the things YOU'RE expert on doesn't mean he's dumb or lazy. He may be quite the genius, and just focussed on other interests.
Re:Just as offensive as "explicit lyrics" (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I like it (Score:4, Insightful)
I completely agree. I also think that laws shouldn't be passed regarding this issue. It shouldn't be illegal to break DRM, but it also shouldn't be illegal to put DRM on a disk. When the companies get too greedy and the functionality of their products is lost, they'll feel it in their pocketbook.
Let the consumer decide.
Re:Wait, aren't they on "our side"? (Score:3, Insightful)
File under UNLIKELY (Score:4, Insightful)
the urgent need to abolish DRM and copy protection . (Don't get me wrong, I would prefer lack of copyright and copyprotection, I'm trying out for Fox News with all this wild speculation)
Re:Labeling (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:ANOTHER WARNING (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes, they are different.
Don't call it anti-piracy! (Score:5, Insightful)
Please, let's call it "Anti-Fair Use" (Score:5, Insightful)
-dameron
Re:Don't underestimate the "masses". (Score:4, Insightful)
Especially when the warning reads: Secured for your protection.
The industry always likes to reverse the meaning of all important words to make something bad sound good. Remember SDMI or "Secure" media. All warnings that the product is so secure that you can't even use it!
Re:Labeling (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Labeling (Score:4, Insightful)
Take off the tin-foil hat!
This is more of a consumer-protection law than anything else. It's reasonable to expect the dealer/manufacturer notify you (and discount appropriately) when he tries to sell you known broken goods. Wouldn't you be a bit ticked if the CD burner you bought was used as a hammer by the store manager's kid, without any notice about it?
Copy-protection is making a product broken the moment it comes out of the factory. Note it as damage.
Re:I dunno... (Score:3, Insightful)
Software/Games already have copy protection all over them, disabling means to copy, also without any indications of protection. If that's on music CDs, shouldn't be a problem at all. But if I have to buy new DRM drives. That's a problem.
Re:Not a bad idea (Score:2, Insightful)
BUT we can't "sample" them.
Hypocrites!
...and don't give me that "Its the record company doing it" bullshit.
Re:Wait, aren't they on "our side"? (Score:5, Insightful)
Fool me once (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:It's really needed. (Score:5, Insightful)
FINALLY (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:F***ing Democrats (Score:4, Insightful)
I wish that were true, but not a lot of Democrats support the 2nd Amendment. Many Democrats are as rabid on the War of Drugs as any Republican, and the WoD is probably the greatest threat to the Constitution in the last 100 years or so. It's completely destroyed the 4th Amendment, and it's making inroads on several other important elements of the Bill of Rights.
The sad fact is that neither the Republicans or the Democrats have any great respect for the Constitution. Both parties seem to view the Constitution as an inconvenient obstacle to whatever goofy social agenda their constituents like at the moment.
Truth-in-labelling is really a libertarian idea. In other words, buy copy-protected music if you like, but you should at least be allowed to know what you're buying. No force, no fraud, the holy duality.
(Disclaimer) I'm not a doctrinaire libertarian-- for example, I don't think we should sell the National Parks to Disney. But the major parties need to start being just a little more concerned with liberty, or pretty soon there won't be any left.
Re:Actually.. (Score:5, Insightful)
How about You just leave out the anti-whatever E-mail?
And dont bombard him, bombarding someone just ensures that they take shelter from your bombardment.
Instead, try and educate the man. present an UNBIASED viewpoint and use FACTS.
if you flood the man with propoganda, he's just going to run to the MPAA/RIAA money even faster.
Tell His constituents what he's doing, and EDUCATE THEM!
Take an inteligent aproach, and he MIGHT listen to you.
And for you residents of Oregon, Call His office, send him mail (NOT E-mail), Tell him what you think of his actions, and be sure your vote reflects your opinion the next time he comes up for election.
Act like a freak/fanatic, and he will respond to you accordingly.
Act like an inteligent person, and he might actually listen to you.
"Anti-piracy" a misnomer (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:because he doesnt have the money (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Gotta love this quote (Score:5, Insightful)
First, art does not exist in a vacuum. Rather, it draws on previous experience and the public domain. Renaissance artists admiried Greek art; Disney borrows fairy tales. Countless classical composers wrote fantasies on folk songs. The erosion of the public domain harms all artists by eliminating the ability to borrow from the past.
Second, the zealous defense of copyright has the ability to unreasonably restrict what an artist may use in the course of their work. Say, for example, that you want to make a short film of a play you wrote. Hope you made the costumes yourself; the storebought dress your lead actress is wearing is probably a copyrighted design. Does she sit down in a chair in one scene? Better clear it with the furniture designer before you distribute your film.
Noone's saying, of course, that you can't make a home movie to send to grandma. But what about, say, a group of high school students who just want to put their rendition of a Shakespeare play on the web? Or a computer-programmer-by-day who's itching to share a monologue he wrote? The promise of the Internet (and cheap electronics) was that now _anyone_ could try their hand at being creative, and possibly be heard.
The main harm of this concentration of copyright is not to a "mainstream" artist with the backing of a studio and corporate lawyer. It is, rather, to the individual who wants to go out and make something new - just because. And that's just sad.
Anyway, that's my understanding of (that part of) Lessig's book. It's good, go read it. (though I'm not sure I agree with his proposal for radio spectrum...)
Re:Not a bad idea (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Actually.. (Score:4, Insightful)
Politicians who are focused and supportive of certain industries are generally ruled by hype and money...if you only have considered opinions and no capital, you are welcome to express yourself and will in no way influence these folks.
On other issues the Senior Senator is considered and thoughtful, even erudite and reasonable. In this place, he has been won over by the RIAA/MPAA twins to believe that if he doesn't protect their content, then he will compromise all intellectual property derived in the US. It is an argument that will not be won except by the voice of his constituents.
As a citizen of Oregon, I can tell you I've seen far more responsive government representatives from Arizona (still have the letter from John McCain where he corrected my beliefs about his encryption legislation) than from Oregon.
I won't recommend voting against a candidate for a single issue, but I do believe that we must make it clear to him the nature of his misinformation, and if that includes sending him snail mail and discussing these at town meetings at every opportunity, then I will...
Never suggested being a freak/fanatic, but I can see how I mis-communicated my thoughts.
Re:Labeling (Score:2, Insightful)
I don't think that demanding that the products I buy in the store WORK is tantamount to demanding a nanny. When I buy CDs, I want to be able to play them ON MY COMPUTER and whatever other device was designed to play CDs. These copy-protected CDs have been known not to work in some computers, DVD players, and car CD players. Translation: buying them is like playing a crapshoot since you don't know if (a) it will have the anti-copying technology implemented or (b) what devices the CD will play in if it does. Maybe nobody expects a Yugo to hit seventy when climbing a hill, but if my brand-new car randomly didn't start on Sundays and Tuesdays, and it was a manufacturer-imposed limitation, I think I would be entitled to complain.
(Besides, when you buy a car, they do tell you the horsepower of the engine. People buying Yugos do have access to that information.)
I don't demand a nanny. I demand to be warned when someone is trying to rip me off, by selling me products that don't work as advertised.
Re:Labeling (Score:3, Insightful)
>Nobody expects a Yugo, the zenith of Communist >cosumer goods, to be able to keep up with a tricked >out CJ-7 in a hill climb
However, when you offer the Yugo as the next-generation replacement to said CJ-7 (equivalent strategy: let's replace your perfectly good CD player with our NeuteredDisc(tm) players!), and your target market wouldn't be able to tell a Yugo from a CJ-7 at the dealership without two tries (the discs and players look, are packaged and priced similarly, and advertising rarely mentions crippling), you need to make it abundantly clear that you're not selling the same set of expectations.
Finally, the louder and more obnoxious the warning label is, the stronger its impact on discouraging manufacturers to adopt an unpopular technology. Would you put a big "We Screw Our Customers" label on every box, assuming you didn't work at MSFT? The principle here is somewhat similar, I suppose, to the stigma against NC/17-rated films shaping the supply side of the market: you can make them if you want, but good luck getting the consumer to look behind the scarlet letters.
Re:Not a bad idea (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Don't underestimate the "masses". (Score:2, Insightful)
True, don't underestimate the masses, but don't count on them to support an anti-DRM position either. People are funny that way. Here are two possible scenerios:
1. DRM is promoted as a means to improve quality / reduce the sky-rocketing prices. Many consumers might be under the impression that they are footing the bill for piracy both in cost as well as selection. The "masses" may actually favor DRM tech.
2. The possibility that ALL CD's are labelled as "...may include DRM technology".-- In this instance, no real information is aquired by the consumer. I find it unlikely that the content provider would be required to disclose the exact nature of the DRM technology employed. I am sure Hollywood would be more than agreeable to a "generic" anti-pirating sticker especially if all CDs and DVDs had one.
Contrary to the intent of this bill, I suspect we will end up with scenerio #2...
Buy copy protected CDs and return them on mass (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Not a bad idea (Score:3, Insightful)
You are going to force them to charge LESS for a product that costs them MORE to produce? They have spent a fortune developing, licening, and implementing these restriction systems.
Has it dawned on you that it also implies that you are forcing them to charge MORE for normal CD's?
Even if we assume they initially started by reducing the cost of crippled content they will quickly apply "inflation" and set the price of crippled disks however they want and you are unforcing a surcharge for normal products.
-
What's likely to happen... (Score:2, Insightful)
Yeah, I know, it's not likely to happen.
Unfortunately, what *is* likely to happen is that non-crippled disks will increase in price while crippled disks remain the same. Now the price *appears* to be lower but nothing has really changed...the RIAA still gets the same amount of money out of you *and* the higher price on "open" CDs encourages you to suck it up and pay the fees for the crippled disk.
Pessimistic, I know...but still likely.
crap, right effort wrong implementation (Score:1, Insightful)
What if I popped in some gas in my car only to find out later that it would not start (or worse was corroding or gumming my engine)? Would I really need a special law just to prevent that and force them to put a label saying in effect, "Even though this pump is right next to all the normal gas pumps, looks the same down to color coding, and even though we call this unleaded you are supposed to know the 25 digit code found in small writing under the dirty nozel that indicates this is in fact not intended for cars except the brand new "Gas DRM" models... sorry for the confusion, pull up to the next pump"
Remember that if the companies want to play ambigous games then consumers can simply show a little sack and quit purchasing from them. Stop running to big brother and show a little backbone. Stop being fucking monkeys and be human beings! WILLPOWER, USE IT