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Spam Your Rights Online

RC Car Craze: The Spam Connection 314

Posted by timothy from the spam-from-ix dept.
Rick Zeman writes "The Washington Post is reporting that the latest toy craze, miniature radio-controlled cars, is actually fueled by spam, and that spammers are actually helping brick and mortar retailers. Dunno about you guys, but I get a couple of those a day...and I've resisted the 'temptation.'" The Washington Post wants to know your age, ZIP code and sex, and even provides you with hints on the first two. ...or read the same story on MSNBC.
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RC Car Craze: The Spam Connection More

RC Car Craze: The Spam Connection

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  • Link to non-reg-req version (Score:5, Informative)

    by Motherfucking Shit ( 636021 ) on Sunday December 22, 2002 @04:45PM (#4941316) Journal
    MSNBC is carrying the same article [msnbc.com] without the registration requirement.
  • It's a lot easier than boycotting 3rd world child labor or commercial software. To bad grandmothers and perverts are the true targets of spam; not us.

    • Re:why not boycott spam products? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by jvj24601 ( 178471 ) on Sunday December 22, 2002 @05:03PM (#4941416)
      It's a lot easier than boycotting 3rd world child labor or commercial software. To bad grandmothers and perverts are the true targets of spam; not us.

      Except that in this case, perverts (as far as I can tell) were not the true targets of spam. We (parents) were.

      This spam did not interest me, specifically (because my son isn't into toys like that), but my coworker (who also has a 7 year old), who actually ordered some these cars, went on to say "Yeah, for once, some spam was actually useful. Go figure." Go figure, indeed.

      I have over 30 email aliases assigned to my company email address for various software-registration and mail-order companies, and what not. And I get scores of spam and hate it. But if I ever got a spam that read something like "Get memory from cruical.com for 70% off", I (and I suspect many /. readers as well) would probably read it. It all depends on the target and message. If I could change my spam from porn and HGH and penis enlargement to computer-related hardware and software discounts, I would mind it a whole lot less...
      • This spam did not interest me, specifically (because my son isn't into toys like that), but my coworker (who also has a 7 year old), who actually ordered some these cars, went on to say "Yeah, for once, some spam was actually useful. Go figure." Go figure, indeed.

        Except that if he bought it from the spammer's, he's likely paying $29.95 for the lower-quality Chinese "knockoffs" which I can go downtown and buy a dozen for $66 from "cash-and-carry" distributors. Hell, for real wholesalers, the real cost is even lower.
    • To what end would you boycott the product?

      Whether you don't buy the car at all, or buy the car from a reputable non-spammer seller, the spammer still does not see a profit.

      Besides, with the run-away hit that these cars already are, the few thousand lost sales that an absolutely succesful slashdot-wide boycott would cause would not be noticed.

      But you're absolutely right in that people should never by a product from the company that spammed them. If you receive an ad for something cool, go out and buy it from their closest non-spamming competitor.
  • Jump [google.com] with Google.

  • Actually... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    ...the spam has caused me to NOT buy these things. I figure if they are going to spam, the product must rank right up there with the penis + breast enlagement pills.

    • Not all that bad (Score:4, Informative)

      by fleener ( 140714 ) on Sunday December 22, 2002 @05:29PM (#4941552)
      I bought some of the cheap non-name-brand China imports at a local mall merchant for $15 and saw a couple national chain stores in the same mall selling them. Only after purchase did I go back and look at those spams to see I bought the same product.

      From my point of view, I supported a local merchant who imported the product, avoided giving my money to a retail chain corporation, and avoided giving money to a spammer. The cars are fine. In the same mall I would have paid $21 *more* for a MicroSizer. And the $20 Radio Shack ZipZaps are out-of-stock until after Xmas.

      As a gadget, these cars lose their luster quickly for an adult. For my children, they couldn't care less whether it's a MicroSizer, ZipZap, or noname junk. They'll never want upgradeability. I bought 4 cars for $15 each, totally $60. I saved $84, thankyouverymuch.

  • in other news... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Shymon ( 624690 ) on Sunday December 22, 2002 @04:48PM (#4941330)
    Harvard business school recently stated that marketing causes people to buy things! This startling discovery is said to revolutionize the way people do business. "no more hiding my merchandise for me!" said one excited store-owner.

  • I have one (Score:2, Informative)

    by LinuxInDallas ( 73952 )
    Hey, I bought one of these guys and they are very cool. They sell them at Frys and my friend's 4 year old loves it. For the cheap price they are a great deal. They're also great for annoying the family pet.
    • Yep, that's why I bought mine. It was a $10 impulse buy at walgreens. The cats go nuts trying to catch it. I hadn't even seen any advertising for it, other than the $50 one at Thinkgeek [thinkgeek.com]. Saying that spam fueled the sales is rather speculative.
      • Hands up, I bought from a local store simply because the spam gave me an idea for a Christmas present.

        Could be an interesting twist on guerrilla marketing.. send out completely fake spams to generate interest in a product. Nothing to blacklist or complain to a host about because it's all a fabrication. Hmmm.

  • I didn't get any of those spams, and in fact lately I get only 3 or 4 spams per day, in part due to my ISP implementing email filtering (postini is the name I believe), and in part due to my aggressive attitude towards spam.

    Speaking of which, does anyone remember web poision? It was a cool little CGI script that generated snacks for spambots. A page (linked, or so it appeared to the spambot) would have dozens or hunderds of bogus links and email addy's, and each trip would generate another, completely new page. I want to put something like that on every server I use.

    • I want to put something like that on every server I use
      Try Sugarplum [devin.com].
      • High Five! Thank you. Now if everyone put it on, the spammers would be crying out. My only question is, what of the bounced emails? Could something like that clog the spammers, and their victims (ISP's)?
        • I'll warn you. It could suck up your transfer rate if you have one. The bounced emails? I doubt it that there are any on demagogical8@radburya.gov or unretaliated@palaeornithine.slapping.info or rTewstx4kljls@thurt.tv, do you?
          • If the spammer sends an email to one of the bogus addy's, where does it go? If the spammer has hijacked an isp's server, then? Not that I have much sympathy for any admin who is so slacker, but still I wonder.

            I also wonder if there is a way to limit the transfer rate (not a problem for me, but it would be great if we got this spread around). I intend to fight back.

            • It gets a host unreachable or similar if the domain is not valid. Spammer do not hijacke an isp's server, they use open relays, open proxies and so on. What they put in their Return-path (part of the envelope) is their biz so bounces get to the Return-path address if the domain is bouncing. You better fight back in analyzing your spam, report it to the ISPs (hoster, dropbox providers etc) and dive into usenet into nanae [google.com]. For getting some practice I mean :)
            • Trust me, you need to have a mechanism in place to stop the spammer's spider sucking up all your bandwidth or it'll get really expensive to do this!

              I've written a perl script that does the same for my site, and it's set up to only allow links down to 4 layers deep from the first page (pages are randomly generated, but each bogus URL includes a depth key=>value pair hidden in the mess.

              Also ensure any random email addresses really are random (as much as possible). I have the script perform an nslookup on the domains it generates to make sure they don't resolve - it also slows down page generation significantly, which is another bonus...
  • Now that it's shown that Spam actually helps the brick and mortar stores, now are we going to see Walmart and KMart behind a lot of spam in the future?

  • bad journalism alert (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Stanley Feinbaum ( 622232 ) <mister_feinbaum2 ... m ['mai' in gap]> on Sunday December 22, 2002 @04:50PM (#4941342) Journal
    The Washington Post wants to know your age, ZIP code and sex, and even provides you with hints on the first two

    And yet slashdot still links to their site, as do you guys link to the new york times' site.

    As a professional journalist, I can tell you that they use that information you input to profile you and sell it to advertisers. Try posting a google cache link next time instead.
    • As a professional /. lurker, I can tell you that they can sell my profile as long as they want. Ever heard of bogus information? Throway email addresses?

    • Re:bad journalism alert (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Graff ( 532189 ) on Sunday December 22, 2002 @05:30PM (#4941555)
      I can tell you that they use that information you input to profile you and sell it to advertisers.


      This is why I always put down that I'm a female, born in 1902, who lives in zip code 90210.

      They can ask all they want, but all they will get is the most misleading information I can give them. Having a database full of garbage is much worse than them getting rid of the database entirely. Hopefully they will realize that some day and stop bothering us.
      • right .. because you should get everything for free, right? How DARE the washington post ask for the most basic of user demographic data in exchange for their content? The bastards!
        • right .. because you should get everything for free, right?

          No, actually. They had ads on that page and I'm sure that they get paid for those ads. I have no problem with them making money but I don't feel that the article was worth me giving them any data. If they can't make enough money without obtaining and selling the data then I would just as soon not read the article.

          I hope the Washington Post is very successful and is swimming in cash, I just don't like being asked for or giving out data about myself.

      • Re:bad journalism alert (Score:5, Funny)

        by writermike ( 57327 ) on Sunday December 22, 2002 @07:53PM (#4942109)
        This is why I always put down that I'm a female, born in 1902, who lives in zip code 90210.

        So, you're the whippersnapper that's been putting me on all those mailing lists! I might be 100 years old, but my cane can still fit up your butthole, sonny.

      • Re:bad journalism alert (Score:3, Interesting)

        by babbage ( 61057 )

        Actually, these sites are well aware that a lot of people use junk data. That's okay -- it's not being used for anything critical at this point (and IMO will onlt be 'critical' if/when sites start moving to pay models en masse). The more interesting & useful side effect of having these registration models is that it provides an anchor to *far* better demographic modelling of the site.

        From this point of view, you could tell them that you, NYT reader # 07593146, are a twelve eyed Tralfamadorean that lives on the fourth planet from Betelgeuse for all they'd care, because you're still giving them the data that they *really* need:

        • Basic demographics: NYT reader #07593146 reads from one computer at home & two from work, tends to follow stories about computer technology, usually enters the site from $third_party, and can be relied on to view $number of ad impressions per day
        • General ad targeting: a while back she/he/it was looking up travel stories about Europe, so they might be interested in airfare deals
        • Specific ad targeting: she/he/it tends to spend time reading the car reviews and, while there, always lingers on station wagon ads & never follows links for SUVs. Knowing this, car advertisers might want to pay more to target station wagon ads at this customer, etc
        • adapting to evolving preferences & technologies: It has been noticed lately that this user isn't registering any pop{up,under} ad impressions, suggesting that they've adopted some kind of filtering software (maybe Mozilla, but if so they're also spoofing the user-agent string). With that in mind, they might decide to stop trying to serve popups to this person, and deliver more intrusive traditional ads instead, leaving the popup inventory to users of different browser software for now.
        • Sanity check: Gee, for a 12-eyed Tralfamadoerean, user #07593146 doesn't seem to interested in any of our stories on exobiology, astrophysics, geopolitics, or opthamology. Maybe we shouldn't trust that data... :)

        Mission accomplished. This kind of profiling is all based on simple traffic analysis, and most of it isn't really possible without a pervasive registration scheme. This is a damn goldmine to web publishers. If people actually trusted the publishers & were honest on their profiles, that would be icing on the cake, but playing games like this really isn't as much of an obstacle as you might be hoping.

        Hey, the people running the site are computer nerds too, they think the same way you are and know the same tricks you do. There is no race of Tralfamadoreans around Betelgeuse, but that doesn't stop them from being attentive... :)

    • Why? We all know that the information will be sold to marketers. It's not up to Slashdot to protect us from this. Simpky to inform us. We have a choice. We can go without, follow the link and provide our details, or follow the link and lie about our details.

      Most people lie. I was told that the average web surfer owns their own company and earns more than $1 000 000 per year.

    • Re:bad journalism alert (Score:4, Funny)

      by FyRE666 ( 263011 ) on Sunday December 22, 2002 @07:05PM (#4941943) Homepage
      As a professional journalist, I can tell you that they use that information you input to profile you and sell it to advertisers. Try posting a google cache link next time instead.
      So what? I always sign up as cmdrtaco@slashdot.org anyway ;-)

      (only kidding... it's cowboy neil)
    • As a professional journalist, I can tell you that they use that information you input to profile you and sell it to advertisers. Try posting a google cache link next time instead.

      What harm does it do for them to ask?

      They can better target their advertising...so what? They know who's reading their web site--great. Maybe they'll write more stories that I'm interested in. If the /. link warns of registration ahead, then I know that I have to trade some of my information for their information. They're trying to make a buck, just like everybody else. Good for them. I know that it will be used to advertise at me. Besides--the most important point is this:

      I can choose to lie, or not. Usually I just wait for a no-reg link to appear in the comments. It saves me from all these little dilemmas. (Dilemmae?)

      I ask your opinion--as a professional journalist--who is going to pay you for your work if news organizations have trouble making money?

  • I'm getting one (Score:2, Interesting)

    by DJayC ( 595440 )
    I think Santa got me one of the Evolution Mini-RC cars. I saw them on ThinkGeek [thinkgeek.com] waaaay back. It wasn't until recently I noticed the spam. As far as I can tell, the ones going around in spam are the junkier versions. I think it's just another attack of people trying to sell cheaper imitations much like the Furby craze, which spawned tons of imitations that lacked the features of the original.
  • As a complete R/C addict, I'm quite happy to see some spam that I'm actually interested in for once. Although I'd never buy the junk that RadioShack or other such places are trying to pass off as RC cars - Yokomo make a mini RC car called the Puchimaru, which is of far higher quality.
    http://www.yokomousa.com/kits/puchimaru/ index.html

    So what's the problem with spam being used to sell RC cars anyway? It's not like it's the first thing to be advertised via spam, and it certainly won't be the last. After all, if they're getting 1/3 of the people who recieve the spam to buy the cars, people must actually not mind recieving this certain spam, right?


    -Nutter
    • So what's the problem with spam being used to sell RC cars anyway?

      Spam is theft of service and trespass to chattel.

      I will NEVER purchase ANY product advertised through spam, and I WILL work to have all spammer 'store' pages shut down, regardless of where they are hosted.

      ALL spammers, without exception, are thieving criminal scum who deserve to die.
  • If you want to spend money on an R/C car, don't go for this mini crap. My little brother can't handle the 1/10 scales very well yet, so he got one of these mini cars. They don't last very long. It was exchanged once because the steering went bad on him, and the second one did the same thing. Spend your money on a bigger R/C car. It's definitely worth it.
  • "One of those contractors, Steve Harper, said he has sent 5 million e-mails so far. Earlier this month, he claims he sold 330,000 cars after sending a million ads in one day." And people wonder why spam still gets sent. It is because people buy stuff that is spamvertised.
    • "One of those contractors, Steve Harper, said he has sent 5 million e-mails so far. Earlier this month, he claims he sold 330,000 cars after sending a million ads in one day." And people wonder why spam still gets sent. It is because people buy stuff that is spamvertised.

      The first thing I thought of when I read that was: How do we get this guy's address and send him junk mail, like slashdot did to Alan Ralsky [slashdot.org]? Come on, folks, I want an address, I want an aerial map!

    • The problem is that because spam costs the recipiant money and costs the sender almost nothing, only a very small return rate is required to keep the spammer in the black (or more) every year. The solution is to enforce token-based mail sending that has an associated real world cost, even if it's one the end-user can specify himself for unknown senders.

  • I hate them, buy real ones... (Score:5, Informative)

    by Magus311X ( 5823 ) on Sunday December 22, 2002 @04:53PM (#4941362)
    Seriously. The ZipZaps, and most of the stuff from Tyco and Nikko aren't that fantastic.

    Get the real deals. 1/18th, 1/10th, or 1/8th. Electric or nitro. On-road or off.

    HPI [hpiracing.com]
    Kyosho [kyosho.com]
    Serpent [serpent.nl]
    Tamiya [tamiya.com]
    Team Associated [teamassociated.com]
    Team X-Ray [teamxray.com]
    Traxxas [serpent.nl]

    RC racing has got to be one of the geekiest and most rewarding hobbies to boot. Meet a lot of nice people this way at events.

    -----
    • and its one fine piece of engineering. Most of the fun is in building them, I think.

      Its kind of unfortunate to see that they havent really come out with anything new since '97. Must've fallen on hard times.

    • You can't knock these till you try em.

      I got one from radio shack for my 5yro nephew. After the purchase I was obligated to test it for any bugs or defects. The one I "tested" had some sort of issue with it, I couldn't give my nephew something that was defective. So I decided to keep the defective one and get another one for my nephew.

      Really fun taking bong rips and watching these little things run around in circles.

    • Re:I hate them, buy real ones... (Score:4, Informative)

      by Nutter9182 ( 621637 ) on Sunday December 22, 2002 @05:08PM (#4941443) Homepage
      umm.. No link to Losi? No link to Yokomo? C'mon, you even linked to Tamiya, HPI, and Traxxas.. you've gotta link to the good manufacturers too. (Yea, I'm just kidding, Tamiya, HPI, and Traxxas all make some decent products) ;)
      Losi [teamlosi.com] Yokomo [yokomousa.com] Traxxas (you have the wrong link) [traxxas.com]

      RC racing definately has the perception of a geeky hobby, but I do consider it to be the one non-geek thing I do - being covered in dirt, oil, and fuel isn't very geeky imo. :) I'm glad to see that there's other RC racers here on /.

      -Nutter

    • I have a Kyosho eletric car, 1/12 scale, and I love the thing. It can run about 25mph (motor is old and cells haven't been matched in a long time), jump 6' off the ground, and generally just tear shit up like a mofo. I wouldn't give it up for anything.

      Now, I work in a Network Control Center. If I even considered bringing anything that transmits RF, I'd be so fired. That is where my DigiQ Micro IR car comes into play. The car is all of about 1.5" long. It has a small dome on top to receive input from the transmitter.

      The transmitter I have cost more than the radio gear for my Kyosho. It has tons of control functions like stepped acceleration and anti-lock breaking. The car itself has 2 motors connected directly to the rear drive wheels. The transmitter keeps track of what these motors are doing and can adjust each one seperately.

      Now, I keep 2 of these things in my drawer at work. We can have a small race in the space of a single 2' square floor tile. Everyone at the office loves them. We have even started talking about forming DigiQ leagues for races during lunch.

      Sure, big cars are more fun, but these things can be a blast anywhere. Hell, I even had a small race on the coach tray table of a damn airplane.

  • Yet another "mainstream" pro-spam mention (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Motherfucking Shit ( 636021 ) on Sunday December 22, 2002 @04:54PM (#4941364) Journal
    I was a bit dismayed to see that this article seemed to glorify spamming without mentioning any of the negative/annoying side effects. It was one big "spam works, spam == sales" promotion. The author essentially makes the case for spamming as a profitable enterprise - portraying spammers as ethikul bidnezmen - and I'm afraid that articles like this will only help to encourage the "mainsleaze" spammers.

    From the article,
    "If you see a product more than a couple of times on e-mail, that means that product is selling," Finn said. "No one would be sending it repeatedly if was not selling."
    I say it's more like "No one would be sending it repeatedly if they'd actually sold out their product." Anything that needs to be spammed over and over, ad nauseum, isn't selling, thus requiring repeated spam runs in order for the spammer to make a decent ROI.

    I groan at the thought of how many professional marketing types will read this article and decide that spam is the way to make _their_ product next year's must-have Christmas gift.
    • Anything that needs to be spammed over and over, ad nauseum, isn't selling, thus requiring repeated spam runs in order for the spammer to make a decent ROI.

      To me, it seems more logical that repeated ads for the same product means that it is selling. I wouldn't think spammers have the resources to repeatedly spam something that isn't making them immediate cash flow. It makes much more sense to me that the repeated ads are the result of the spammers seeing something sell and just getting greedy (and/or lazy).
      • To me, it seems more logical that repeated ads for the same product means that it is selling. I wouldn't think spammers have the resources to repeatedly spam something that isn't making them immediate cash flow. It makes much more sense to me that the repeated ads are the result of the spammers seeing something sell and just getting greedy (and/or lazy).
        The article seems to imply that the spammers are "subcontractors" in a way for the manufacturer - that the manufacturer sells a spammer a lot of X thousand minicars, and then the spammer has to sell those minicars. If the spam was really working, you'd think the spammer would have sold his lot in the first run. If the spam was really working, there would be no need to spam again.

        One good analogy I can think of is that a local furniture store chain which has been in business for 50+ years is going out of business. They've been "going out of business" for several months now (their situation is real, the patriarch gambled away the store's assets in the casinos, and they really are bankrupt and going out of business). The thing is, there are commercials on TV every day for the last few months screaming "we're closing our doors forever and we must get rid of our inventory! This week is your last chance to get amazing deals!" Yet week after week is the "last week" to buy. If the ads were working - if they were actually selling off the inventory - this whole thing would have wrapped up weeks if not months ago. It's the fact that they aren't selling the product that keeps them advertising.

        Remember, spammers have unlimited resources - that's how they operate, by abusing other peoples' resources. It doesn't cost a spammer any more to make 10 spam runs than it costs him to make 1 spam run. The furniture store has to pay for their television ads and even they're still running commercials... Because they aren't selling their stock.

        I tend to believe that spam I receive over and over indicates a product that's not selling, thus the need to keep re-advertising for it.


      • To me, it seems more logical that repeated ads for the same product means that it is selling. I wouldn't think spammers have the resources to repeatedly spam something that isn't making them immediate cash flow.

        Wow. Good point. Just think of all that money flowing out of third world countries due the the help of, now wealthy, random investors! Man. What a gold mine!

        Of course - repetition of spam has nothing to do with sales. It has much, much more to do with the low cost nature of the medium. And the tactics involved.
    • I was a bit dismayed to see that this article seemed to glorify spamming without mentioning any of the negative/annoying side effects.

      Don't worry, M$NBC will make sure that only a few "legitimate" operations will be able to spam you. To do so, they will pump up the problems of unregulated email servers or some other stupid pap. How else can you extend your monopoly into the net? Works for both M$ and NBC. Then all your mail boxes will look like your AOL or Hotmail. At least then they might stop paying people to send out porn spam. Annoy people enough and you can screw them as you please when you claim to be their savior. Good stuff, eh?

  • Once in a while I receive a piece of spam that I don't mind. And this RC Car is the one out of about the last 1001 that I didn't mind receiving. Some companies do have innovative and/or entertaining and/or cool products. That RC car sure has been tempting though.
    It's nice every once in a while when you receive spam for a product that stands on its own merit; it doesn't need to be hyped up or anything. It is what it is, plain and simple. If spam should be anything, then that is what is should be.

  • Voting With My Dollars (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Myuu ( 529245 ) <myuu@pojo.com> on Sunday December 22, 2002 @04:57PM (#4941380) Homepage
    Ya, I thought those were pretty cool, and I was just about to buy one until I start get those SPAM messages. I was so sick of deleting and sifting through them I said fsck them and bought something else.
  • and he can't even read, so it wasn't because of spam.

  • You gotta be kidding me. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by FreeLinux ( 555387 ) on Sunday December 22, 2002 @05:01PM (#4941408)
    Ali estimates that for every e-mail Penn Media sends out, his firm wins one sale and retail stores win 20.

    21 sales for every email sent???? Who the fuck is this guy trying to kid?????
    • Ali estimates that for every e-mail Penn Media sends out, his firm wins one sale and retail stores win 20.

      21 sales for every email sent???? Who the fuck is this guy trying to kid?????

      They meant batches of emails, not individual emails. So when they send a spam batch to 100k email addresses (or however many they do), they result in 21 sales.

    • I think he's including sales that have nothing to do with his e-mail at all. He's taking sales numbers, dividing by e-mail numbers, and then saying "because I sent out fewer e-mails than there are customers, I created 21 sales by sending out these e-mails. So I'm not a horrific parasite leeching off of legitimate businesses, REALLY!"

      For anyone who believes him, I have (the MPAA-equivalent of) fifteen ("ordinary") CD-R drives to sell you! ;)

  • and the fun part.... (Score:4, Funny)

    by Lumpy ( 12016 ) on Sunday December 22, 2002 @05:05PM (#4941428) Homepage
    is the local gas stations and walgreen stores have the same el-cheapo cars they are trying to sell in spam for $19.95 for $5.95 - $7.95

    again, its advertisers taking advantage of the uneducated or lazy people to sell their wares..

    I completely pissed off two co-workers that where bragging about their "find" in the internet of the impossible-to-get mini-rc cars. that I went out at lunch and bought 3 of the exact same off-brand for the same $19.95 they spent+shipping, with the only comment from me being, "did you even look here in town first?"

  • RC Car Craze (Score:2, Interesting)

    by fhic ( 214533 )
    I have a girlfriend who brought me back a bagful of these from Japan last summer. There's a reason why they're popular: they're fairly cool, relatively cheap, and they appeal to the geek-gadget demographic. And most of mine are still working, pretty odd for a cheap toy. I wonder how many of the second-generation knockoffs will still be working six months later.
  • Retailers get a free ride from guys like us," said John Nesbit, vice president of Chicago area Internet marketing firm Penn Media, whose business now includes buying the knockoff mini-cars from a Hong Kong factory and selling them on the Internet.

    So the end result is, the spammers are doing all the advertising and the retailers are getting all the benifits. The moral of this story is that spam works... just not for the spammer! Ha ha, irony, gotta love it.
  • Let me prefice with some basic statements:

    The spam model is based off of the traditional direct marketing blanket campaign where you throw out as wide a net as possible and see what comes back.

    While spam has a lower effectiveness than tradtional snail mail campigns, it nontheless pays becuase some people are interested in buying what the spammers sell (even when its a scam, unfortunately).

    If you believe in the free market, then there is nothing inherently wrong with advertising in any medium (though in Soviet Russia there is...).

    The problem with spam is the lack of regulation that balances consumer protection with the free speech rights of advertisers.

    Clearly, as consumers we should be able to opt out of receiving spam without having our email address validated and resold, be confident that the advertisements we receive are not fraudulent, have transparency as to which company has sold our information, and importantly, have the ability to register to not receive any spam from any companies.

    Spam is an easy target for criticizing as it's annoying and the lack of regulation makes it pernicious. Our focus shouldn't be to persecute those sending it, but to push for strict legislation that balances the rights of the consumer with the rights of the advertiser.

    ----
    in Soviet Russia, sig signs off you.


    • There _are_ no free speech rights of advertisers as it pertains to my electronic mail address.

      I simply do not want ANY mail that does not pertain to my business activities. Where do they get off thinking they have the right to steal the time it takes to read the header, address and possibly the text to determine if it's junk or not?

      • OK, I'll bite. If you read my post you'd have seen that I'm advocating your right to opt out of receiving ANY email marketing. This should be your right.

        Does CDW have the right to send my busniness catalogs?

        Making blanket restriction on who we can and can't speak to as individuals and businesses--and what we can and can't say--is a very bad idea.

        Don't you think it's a much better idea to be able to say: "I don't want you to speak to me" or "I don't want any of you to speak to me" (and to have this enforcable by law) rather than have a law that simply says "none of you have any right to talk any of them?" There seems to me to be a big difference. My belief is that the rights of the individual and the rights of business are pretty closely intertwined. When we set up rules to govern fair practice in business, we should tread lightly so as not to constrict our rights as individuals.

        ----
        in Soviet Russia sig signs off you
        • OK, I'll bite. If you read my post you'd have seen that I'm advocating your right to opt out of receiving ANY email marketing.

          Why should anyone have to TELL spammers not to waste their network resources, disk space and time with unwanted junk mail? Why should I have to opt-out to the THOUSANDS of criminal spammers out there?

          A bullet through the brain of a spammer is a much more effective "opt-out" solution, IMO.

    • If you believe in the free market, then there is nothing inherently wrong with advertising in any medium

      So, if there is a free market, then I would be allowed to walk in your house and staple fliers to your wall? I would be allowed to fill a dumptruck with pamphlets and spill them all on your front lawn? I don't think so. A free market doesn't mean property rights go out the window.

  • The Washington Post wants to know your age, ZIP code and sex, and even provides you with hints on the first two.

    I do confess that I do provide false information to Washington Post on that page. IE, 1965/20171. I don't want web sites knowing that much information about me. It all seems stupid because with enough patience you can derive that and much more with an IP address.
  • From the article:

    John Nesbit, vice president of Chicago area Internet marketing firm Penn Media


    Jaffer Ali, Penn Media's chief executive

    One of those contractors, Steve Harper, said he has sent 5 million e-mails so far. Earlier this month, he claims he sold 330,000 cars after sending a million ads in one day.

    Harper, who works out of Dover, Del.

    Patrick Finn, executive vice president of marketing at Hi-Speed Media Inc., an e-mail marketing firm in Sherman Oaks, Calif

  • Zip Zaps Vs. Women (Score:4, Funny)

    by vudufixit ( 581911 ) on Sunday December 22, 2002 @05:26PM (#4941545)
    Unlike women, Zip Zaps are: 1. Easy to pick up 2. Low cost 3. Low commitment 4. Low maintenance 5. Have a short recharge interval

  • Is that so? (Score:5, Funny)

    by NoMoreNicksLeft ( 516230 ) <john.oylerNO@SPAMcomcast.net> on Sunday December 22, 2002 @05:39PM (#4941592) Journal
    "If you see a product more than a couple of times on e-mail, that means that product is selling," Finn said. "No one would be sending it repeatedly if was not selling."

    Ironically, the latest Kinsey survey reports that the average american penis length has increased to an astounding 11.5 inches, Forbes is delcaring that the number of millionaires in the USA has jumped 19,422% since last year due to perfectly legal Nigerian banking loopholes, and this slashdot poster has 19, count them, 19 barely legal blonde sluts hovering around the computer desk at this very minute.

  • Mr. Hi-Speed Mailer Loves This Article (Score:5, Insightful)

    by zentec ( 204030 ) <zentec AT gmail DOT com> on Sunday December 22, 2002 @05:45PM (#4941614)

    It simply legitamizes the business of advertising through a cost-shifted model.

    While the incremental cost to the end user (victim) is immeasurable on a single email basis, over a prolonged period the time spent weeding through the trash that comes in via email has a very real cost in lost time/productivity.

    I've seen many arguments that there needs to be a balance between the rights of the recipient and the rights of the advertiser. Sad fact is, in any circumstance where any of the cost of the delivery of the advertisement is shifted to me and without my consent, it's consumer fraud. The adversiser has no right to take one microsecond of my time in effort to delete their advertisements from my email box, or to force me to get up from my chair to answer the phone or toss their ad from my fax machine.

    Telemarketing, spam, junk faxes or stapling posters to my tree, the costs of delivery are heaped upon me and I'm sick and tired of it.

    As far as spam goes, it's time to start pushing for the death of SMTP. It was nice when the Internet was sheltered, but it's now part of the real world and just like the real world, there's plenty of morons to cause problems.

    The biggest problem with SMTP is that it has too much implicit trust. Spammers take advantage of this and either falsify headers or steal relay services. Giving priority to systems that have valid credentials and all but ignoring those that fail basic trust guidelines will cause spammers to play fair, or go broke. Those spammers that play fair will have no alternative but to honor remove requests or find their trust level set to zero.

    • Re:Mr. Hi-Speed Mailer Loves This Article (Score:4, Interesting)

      by LostCluster ( 625375 ) on Sunday December 22, 2002 @06:28PM (#4941797)
      The key change I would like to see is a model in which the SMTP server is replaced with one that must hold the "payload" content of the message, and instead send a token message that contains the IP address at which the full message resides, other header data, and a reduced hash of the message contents so that the message cannot be tampered with once its been "sent" without being rejected.

      Once an server is identified as having sent spam, the owner of the server can nuke the payload message, therefore making the tokens a pointer to nowhere, so client software ignores the message. Or, if the server owner is not cooperative, a blackhole can be applied to the server, causing client software to discard tokens sent by this server (even for not-yet-read messages that were sent before the alert was issued) so that the message content is never delivered to the user.

      Of course, the few users who actually want spam can continue to get it so long as the sender can find bandwidth willing to allow it, and the users decide to ignore any blacklisting. Nobody's first amendment rights are being denied, just every step in the process gets a chance to opt out.
    • You're not far enough down the plant stalk there. I think the root goes much deeper.

      I think it's long past time to push for an end of commercialism and mass manufacturing.

      No. Nix that. Mass manufacturing in and of itself is not evil. The problem is something deeper. . .

      I think it's long past time to put an end to Greed. Greed is a disease.

      Until then, I quite like the SMTP system. The microseconds I spend deleting bullshit mail are a price I am prepared to pay for the conveniences of email. Having my email sent directly to me is cool. Whatever other system people come up with might not be as reliable, whereas any new system WOULD without question be quickly compromised by greed. The enemy you know. . .


      -Fantastic Lad

      • Wow... there's a student who got an A+ in FUD 101.

        Saying that a new protocol for e-mail is so flawed it'll be compromised by greed before such a protocol is even proposed by anybody.

        Don't worry, nobody's gonna take SMTP away from you. It's just that once a new protocol is deployed, only spammers will be remaining on the old protocol. When the siganal to noise ratio gets too low for you, don't worry, we'll still let you change your mind and switch over.

  • Web Bugs... (Score:2, Informative)

    by davinc ( 575029 )

    They are little 1x1 images encoded with names that are basically serial numbers associated with your e-mail addres. If you view HTML based e-mail, the server records that you have viewed the page as soon as the gif is requested.

    Just looking at junkmail counts as a success for spammers in this case. Oh, and you get added to special lists of people who actually read junkmail.

  • In other news, cart seen pushing horses... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by LostCluster ( 625375 ) on Sunday December 22, 2002 @05:53PM (#4941652)
    I think we have cause and effect backwards...

    Zip Zaps and the like are this year's "hot toy" just like Tickle Me Elmo and Cabbage Patch Kids have been in years past. Kids love them, so parents have got to go find them... stores everywhere are selling out, they can't make these things fast enough.

    This popularity is not the result of spam, instead spammers are jumping on board trying to sell the product that parents would do anything, include pay over-inflated prices to a spammer, to get. It wouldn't surprise me if half the "Get your Zip Zaps from me!" spam turns out to be scams, yet parents are willing to take that risk at the hope of getting the toy little Jimmy must have.

    Whenever anything gets this popular, spammers will be there to exploit the image.

  • When I first saw the story headline, I clicked on the link as soon as I got to it, without reading on. I read the 3 pages of the story before coming back to Slashdot. Then I read that it needed registration. What? I didn't have to register. So I went back and now I have to register. OK, so I tried a few more times. It seems that in their farm of servers, some are not configured to ask for registration, yet. So just keep hitting it a few times with the same URL, and you'll eventually get a server that doesn't hassle you about your private info.

  • "If you see a product more than a couple of times on e-mail, that means that product is selling," Finn said. "No one would be sending it repeatedly if was not selling."

    I guess breast enlargement for men is selling, 'cause I'm a guy, and I get a couple of these a week. Hmm, down from a couple a day, so I guess they're not quite as popular, but still....
    • If a product is selling, that means you'll see it on e-mail more than a couple of times.

      Hey, wait a second... that version makes sense, could it be the original that is the one that is backwards?

  • People actually read their spam? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Joe Tie. ( 567096 ) on Sunday December 22, 2002 @06:16PM (#4941755)
    I'm so sick of spam, giant annoying flash ads, ten minutes of comercials before a movie I payed to watch starts, and related things that I can't take it anymore. I eventually broke down and just decided one day that I'm taping tv so I can fast foreward through commercials, going to movies late or just walking out for a while if the movie hasn't started yet no matter how crazy the people I go with think I am, and keeping flash turned off. It's actually turned out rather well in the long run, as I was quickly reminded that books will not only more often have a better story to tell than most television, there's no comercials!

    And that's why I'm surprised to not see much more of an outcry among mainstream advertisers about things like spam. I admitidly must have had a pretty low tolerance to start with, but everyone has a breaking point and this constant bombardment of brain numbing noise could ruin it for everyone if it gets too prevalent.

  • Have Your Micro RC and Eat it Too (Score:5, Informative)

    by Mulletproof ( 513805 ) on Sunday December 22, 2002 @06:27PM (#4941789) Homepage Journal
    Just because the spammers are ruining your day doesn't mean you have to forego the item completely... Buy a different manufacturer/model. I highly recommend the original Bit Char-G Micro RCs [sigmaautomotive.com] at either your local japanese toy shop, or lacking that-- a listing on eBay [ebay.com] will do the trick well enough. $25-$30 is generally the going price and yeah, the instructions are in Japanese, but if you can't figure out the large obvious pictorials, you shouldn't be using a computer anyway (in other words some assembly required, takes under 10min for the average first time user). Bit Char's were around before the micro RC craze here and they're good quality and well supported. Upgradable motors (up to 30,000 rpm!) and tires in addition to the bodies. Good stuff.

    What gets me is the number of people who let spam alter their shopping habits. Avoiding the seller I can understand. He spammed you, you're pissed. But boycotting the entire brand? Come on now. The manufacture most likely doesn't have a clue and even if they did, there's not a whole lot they could do about it. So just get your present as planned form either the store or a more reputable website. Easy, ne?

  • Well, the spam certainly seems to be keeping itself to country boundaries. I'm in Australia, and not only have I never seen one of the cars the article is talking about, I've never seen a spam ad for it either...

    Targetted spam? Why can't they do it with the rest of the spam, all of which seems to be trying to sell stuff to people in the US.

  • Mini RC spam you say? I haven't gotten those...then again, I don't read my spam.

    On the other hand, those mini RCs are sweet! I'd like one, spam or no.

    Hmmm...maybe I can find out wich particular brand is using spam and only support the competitors? Anybody care to inform me of the name of the non-spamming brands (if there are any)?

  • I first heard of these back in early October from someone at college and bought two of them from the hobby shop near where I live.

    They are GREAT fun... especially if you have cats (evil laugh).

    In spite of what the spam says, they *are* still available in stores... I checked right after I started getting these spams claiming they couldn't be bought anywhere else. Check your local hobby shop if you're interested.

  • Hmmm, I can supply fake info, or support MS via the advertising on their site.

    Choices choices
  • I love the ones that tell you to "check this site", and it includes your email address as part of a GET string. I just go to the main site to find the webmaster/info email (or use a whois), and sign in happily using:
    www.someurl?somebullshit=blahvlah&id=webmaster@spa mmersdomain.com

    I wonder how many of these idiots are actually getting their own SPAM. It wouldn't make me the least bit sad to discover that 99% of employees at spam-friendly inc are themselves getting spammed.
  • ... who hasn't ever heard of these things?

  • Fuel (Score:3, Funny)

    by Ogerman ( 136333 ) on Sunday December 22, 2002 @07:55PM (#4942114)
    The Washington Post is reporting that the latest toy craze, miniature radio-controlled cars, is actually fueled by spam

    That's funny... I always thought those miniature RC cars were fueled by watch batteries or triple-A's. I guess it's like they say.. there are endless uses for the ham in a can! (:

  • Review (Score:5, Informative)

    by Daniel Rutter ( 126873 ) <dan@dansdata.com> on Sunday December 22, 2002 @08:14PM (#4942165) Homepage
    People who'd like to see what a representative mini-car actually has in it, by the way, might like to check out my review of one, here [dansdata.com].
  • To every one of you that swallowed the mini-RC hype and bought one for yourself, a friend, or kids, please don't whine when you get spam for these latest crazes now that spam has been officially validated as a way for companies to sell their wares:

    1) A new money making scheme! Send me your wallet and I'll show you how one can do it.

    2) Big busted babes go sucky sucky!

    3) President Mgabe Mambo needs you to send money to save his country.

    4) HaHaHa

    5) Bigger longer faster...not the history of rocketry, but something else going off.

    6) Viagra for all!!! Now with more ginseng and ginko. WWW.Amateur-Pharmaceuticals-Inc.Com

    7) Stock ticker ABCXYZ is hott! Low trading fees.

    8) Mortgage your life away before rates go up!

    9) Get in on the ground floor...amateur elevator cams.

    10) Thought you'd like to see this...virus wipe out your hard drive.

    11) Can't handle your credit cards? Why cut them up when you can saddle yourself with another loan? Operators standing by to collect bank account numbers.

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