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Privacy Your Rights Online

SBC-Yahoo Partnership Cuts User Privacy 217

Posted by michael from the yahoo-knows-you're-a-dog dept.
simeonbeta2 writes "The San Francisco Chronicle is running a story about Pac Bell's dsl partnership with Yahoo. Initially touted as a new service, Pac Bell is apparently now mailing existing dsl customers to urge them to install additional client software that will enable 'incredible new features and services'. While SBC's privacy policy is not excessively intrusive, use of the new software is covered by Yahoo's privacy policy, which is just a bit more Orwellian." The story's a little overblown - Yahoo's privacy policy reads that way because they offer financial services and the like, where they may well need financial information from you to provide the service. The reporter needed to investigate this new software DSL users are being asked to install, and find out what sort of user tracking it enables.
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SBC-Yahoo Partnership Cuts User Privacy More

SBC-Yahoo Partnership Cuts User Privacy

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  • Less privacy?
    Hasn't that been happening as revenue (def. not profits) collapse for shitty free sites like Yahoo?

  • HOLY CRAP!! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Stigmata669 ( 517894 ) on Friday December 13, 2002 @05:19PM (#4883485)
    Big companies still don't care about your rights!

    • Big companies still don't care about your rights!

      Nevermind that!

      A /. editor actually researched a story!

    • Of course they do. Any right you have they might be able to sell back to you.
    • > Big companies still don't care about your rights!

      Yeah, I don't see what the big deal is either. Especially for the slashdot crowd... I mean, everybody here should know that when an ISP sends you a "new and improved" version with "amazing new features," installing it is the last thing you want to do.

    • i swear this is not an "in soviet russia" post.

      around here (l.a.), sbc-yahoo has all these billboards and radio commercials and their slogan is "internet that logs on to you" (yes, this is too stupid to make up). their website [yahoo.com] indicates that they've now changed that to "internet at the speed of you", perhaps realizing that having the internet log on to you may not be the ideal user experience.

      but this may explain their privacy issues.

  • Well... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Kafka_Canada ( 106443 ) on Friday December 13, 2002 @05:20PM (#4883492)
    Does this herald the end of an era? Hardly...

    Is it even news?
    • Maybe SBC is trying to sabotage DSL and other low-cost broadband "solutions?"
      • No, they are just greedy and tryying to make more money. I'm sure if you install their software it will make you some kind of personalised homepage that will be chock full of ads. I'm sure it also does things like collect data on your surfing habits and then they can sell the results of that.

        Basically, SBC isn't content just being a wire provider and getting paid for that, they want to be like AOL and use information on their users to make more money.
  • Symetric DSL is said to be available on the SBC site but it is apparently rolled out nowhere. My only alternative is to get a T-1 which is about 450 more a month.

    I cannot believe it's taking this freaking long to get decent service and access to the internet.
  • Wait a sec I run Linux with RASPPPOE, how am I supposed to install the software? :)

    Yeah install it where the sun don't shine SBC

  • Modems... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by EverStoned ( 620906 ) on Friday December 13, 2002 @05:22PM (#4883508) Homepage
    I haven't even touched the CD that came with my cable modem, thank you very much. It's full of that transfer monitering crap - isn't it?

    Comcast...grumble...
  • when Prodigy was bought out by SBC. They went on and on about no changes, same service, etc. Then I started getting almost weekly mails with cd's in nice bright colorful cases urging me to install my new SBC Yahoo! Dial software to enable new worlds of features! Of course I didn't because I just kept my Prodigy account around for the old email address and never dialed in, so what was the point of installing new software?

    Finally they started bombarding me with emails that extolled the virtues of the new software. My guess is when you install it then it checks you off on the master list on the server that you installed it, nevermind if you never needed to or didn't care at all. Finally after trying to register on the web site and failing miserably, I just called and cancelled the account. And ya know what? My spam amount is down 95% since then ;) There's something to be said for smaller ISP's...
    • Anyone remember rocketmail? I had a great email address on rocketmail about a decade ago. Yahoo bought them out, and urged everyone to switch. I didn't.. until they forced it. One day I logged in and my rocketmail account was just a profile under my Yahoo account. They said I could receive mail on it, but it would just be forwarded to my Yahoo mail. Grrr!

      I still use Yahoo, but had to compromise on my email handle since the one that I had in rocketmail was already taken. Now, I'm going to start using my own domain for email. They make a good portal, but they're rather obtrusive. And they haven't learned yet how annoying popups are to their users...

    • Re:I went through the same thing... (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Apathy costs bills ( 629778 ) on Friday December 13, 2002 @05:32PM (#4883574) Homepage Journal
      "There's something to be said for smaller ISP's..."

      Yes, and I will say it. Smaller ISPs are wonderful, except they always get bought out by large ISPs, and then you get screwed. It's happened to me three times. Now there are no local ISPs left in my area.
    • Yep- same here, that process was hilarious. I got the Prodigy acct last spring on a $9.95 deal and then a month or 2 later the SBC/Ya-Poo snail mail spam started. I ignored the mess and finally opened one of the missives. I never even logged into my prodigy email account until then and when I did it was nothing but crap about how GREAT the New Internet was going to be with SBC/Ya-Poo. I actually did install what I thought was one piece of the s/w on my windows system (the Y! messenger) and instead it loaded some lame browser and hijacked a bunch of settings. I then realized that eventually I would not be able to dial into the account on my Linux systems much longer so I cancelled too. I told the guy that 'The Internet I was using was just fine, thank you very much, I don't need marketing drones at SBC deciding what I needed to see.

      Also about SBC, it looks like they are finalizing the take over of PacBell's identity. PacBell Park in SF will change to SBC Park and they are running these ads on TV about how you can trust SBC when the chips are down because they are the ones that actually repair the lines when they go down in a storm. Oh, and don't bother switching to the other phone companies for service, since they do not. Bastards.

  • No Linux Client (Score:3, Interesting)

    by zrodney ( 253699 ) on Friday December 13, 2002 @05:22PM (#4883512)
    I got a flyer in the mail from SBC/Pacbell/Yahoo about
    this new service. I have dsl via pppoe on a linux
    box running as a vpn router, and I use mozilla/phoenix
    as my browser.

    I tried going to the web page on the flyer, but it
    just doesn't do anything.

    I wonder what happens if I never sign up for this
    yahoo service? Guess we'll see eventually.

  • reporters research? (Score:3, Funny)

    by CrazyDwarf ( 529428 ) <michael.rodman@gmail.com> on Friday December 13, 2002 @05:22PM (#4883515) Homepage
    Since when are reporters supposed to actually research something before writing their opinions, er... articles?

  • Don't need it. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by dirvish ( 574948 ) <(dirvish) (at) (foundnews.com)> on Friday December 13, 2002 @05:24PM (#4883521) Homepage Journal
    I have SBC DSL and haven't installed any of their software. I am just using a Lynksys router. I would never install any of their software.
  • But for the most part, privacy online is what you make of it. Essentially, you are the controller of your online privacy. You let out as much info as you choose too. Don't want your shopping habits shared with some marketing weenie...don't shop online.

    Craenor
  • Great...so all a writer has to do to make a name for itself in the geek community is yell "LOSS OF PRIVACY! and they come running to see what it is and defending the piece. I just wish it was not so easy, but it is.
    Seriously folk, some measures to protect privacy need to be taken, but every single time you read about this on /. it is like someone taking a knife to a guys balls. Nice to see the write up saw that called the SFC out on it. I wish more were like him and took an honest look at internet use and how we need to balance out the commerce uses with it's awesome ability to share info.
    Please flame me. I am in a bad enough mood without having to put up with the "Everything should be free!!!!" rants. If yahoo is using a EULA to protect privacy for my stock transactions, then I like it. If they are using the EULA to track to my surfing habits (like every other ISP does not or cannot already) then to hell with them and hope they enjoyed sexwithrats.com.
    War having a brain.

  • New software (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Dylan_t_p ( 630258 )
    I was to be a sbc dsl user about a year ago, and I recently went to help my friend mike set up his dsl with sbc/Yahoo! while there is more software than the enternet 300 program that I had to load (now you have enternet 300 AND the connection manager) no biggie though becuase it all hides down in your task bar or system tray depending on how you set it up.

    I don't think it's a real big "invasion of privacy" or even a major privacy cut for that matter I still use sbc/yahoo! dial-up and I have no complaint about it at all the only thing that they really want you to install for "added features" is the yahoo browser which hey if you can put up with msn explorer you can live with installing the yahoo browser
    • I don't think it's a real big "invasion of privacy" or even a major privacy cut for that matter I still use sbc/yahoo! dial-up

      Maybe you aren't seeing past what software is installed on your system. On the server-side, they can track you in many ways. Plus, they have your credit card information (which must be accurate) so it's all tied back to a real person! With an email address and a mailing address... and a social security number, driver's license #, and hordes of other information associated with the above.

      I specifically avoided SBC-Yahoo DSL because of their EULA. This year is the last year for my Yahoo mail account - I'll be closing it as soon as the subscription ends. Figure I might as well pay for web hosting and just use that webmail! No ads, no loss of privacy.
  • I'm a long time PacBell DSL customer .... every time I call them with a problem I've gotten "you're running Linux we can't help you" from the 1st level tech support people - one person even hung up on me claiming it was my fault the line was broken BECAUSE I was running Linux (even though I explained exactly how they had broken the routing tables) ...

    So now they want me to download this wonderfull new software onto my Windows/Mac box .... to invade my privacy .... HA! ha! (as Nelson would say) .... tough

    • Yeah,

      I know, most of the first level tech support people are morons. However, sometimes, if you confuse them enough and give evasive enough answers, they'll let you through to a higher level person if you ask. Some of the higher level people actually know stuff. My roommate managed to get all the way through to one of their sysadmins (we have problems establishing reliable UDP connections to some ISP's, but only if it goes through one link, and they were able to confirm where the problem was). So, the answer is, confuse the hell out of the first level people by talking about networking protocols and you might actually get through to a real sysadmin.

    • Re:What do I care ..... (Score:3, Interesting)

      by bcboy ( 4794 )
      Wow. I've had exactly the opposite experience. Fast, effective help. No odd looks about running linux. The installer was actually pretty interested, and asked for info on configuring the network settings so he could help less experienced linux users.

  • I've got SBC DSL... (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    ...and I never installed the software, who needs it? I plugged the DSL router into the wall and a hub and everyone's online. Does anyone use this software?

  • Whenever I see one of their commercials... (Score:4, Funny)

    by dagg ( 153577 ) on Friday December 13, 2002 @05:39PM (#4883609) Journal
    Whenever I see a commercial for SBC-Yahoo-DSL, there is only one thought that comes to mind: ten years ago, did any of those three words mean anything (maybe SBC meant something to some of you). It cracks me up that three terms that meant nothing to me 10 years ago all teamed up to make one huge-freaking-term: SBC-Yahoo-DSL. How can other companies compete with that?

  • Just sign here, don't worry, we'd never enforce it (Score:5, Insightful)

    by dpbsmith ( 263124 ) on Friday December 13, 2002 @05:40PM (#4883624) Homepage
    In a novel by John D. MacDonald, a condominium buyer is told by the sales agent that the long fine-print contract he's signing is "a formality." Later, when the buyer discovers all sorts of problems with the condo and the agent is stonewalling him on getting them fixed, the agent says "After all, it says in the contract you signed that..."

    The buyer protests "But you said that was just a formality." The agent says "That's right--it is a formal, binding legal contract enforceable in a court of law."

    In real life, when it is honestly a negotiating situation, when I see things I really don't like in contracts I test them. "Can I strike this out?" "Can I write here, 'I have sixty-day return privileges and ask you to initial it?'" The results are very unpredictable. When the clause really IS just boilerplate that they don't actually plan to use, very often they will be perfectly agreeable, and you can get the verbal understanding down on paper. But occasionally, they'll freak out--that clause is in there for a reason and they've been ordered not to let anyone mess with it.

    Unfortunately, none of this shrink-wrap and click-through stuff is a situation where you really have any power or any ability to negotiate. You can't strike out clauses and see if they'll agree to accept them.

    Nevertheless, it's a very good idea to assume that contracts really do mean what they say and that all the fine print and boilerplate really might become operative someday.
    • > Unfortunately, none of this shrink-wrap and
      > click-through stuff is a situation where you
      > really have any power or any ability to negotiate.

      Yes we do.. just do what everyone else does. Ignore it. ;)

      EULA's are almost never enforced, because for the most part they're unenforcable. They mostly serve as CYA tactics in case problems ever do come up. Why do you think XP forces users to validate? Because Microsoft knows that EULA's are easily ignored and broken and they're powerless to stop it.

      This stuff is only used when someone is actually going to court.. for stealing the software. And I'd wager you hardly need a EULA to realize that stealing is bad..

      • Re:Just sign here, don't worry, we'd never enforce (Score:5, Informative)

        by Henry V .009 ( 518000 ) on Friday December 13, 2002 @06:13PM (#4883800) Journal
        Stealing is bad. That's good to know.

        Is installing a program on more than one computer stealing? Is installing bitkeeper and contributing to cvs without paying $5000 stealing? Is installing a program on a multi-processor box without paying for the multi-processor version stealing? Is using frontpage to make an anti-Microsoft web site stealing?

        Existing law makes no provisions for a seller to dictate to a buyer what he may or may not use a product for.

        But a EULA does. And if a EULA is equivalent to a binding contract, then it can be enforced as a contract can be.

        Twenty years ago no one would ever have considered a EULA the same as a contract--no one signs it, there is no proof of who exactly agrees to it. But no one should underestimate the power of established tradition. As EULA's become more and more ubiquitous, they will become more and more accepted by the legal community. And eventually and gradually, without a single legislature passing any law on the matter, the courts will rule by precedent and make EULA's legally binding. And then you can trust that the consequences of forcing average consumers to agree to long and complex legal documents whenever they want to buy a common consumer good will be felt. The law will intrude even deeper into people's everyday lives, making everyone less free. No, people won't read them more carefully--that's impossible anyway, the EULA's necessary to install something as common as Windows with the necessary updates already includes more pages than the Bible. People won't choose to live as hermits in the woods, either--rather they will simply bend their backs and bear the burdens of a few more laws.
        • Is using frontpage to make an anti-Microsoft web site stealing?
          That sounds like Captain Kirk logic there -- an oxymoronic contradiction intended to crash the computer! :->

          IMO, if you want to write anti-MS webpages at least do it right and do it on a Linux box or a Mac! And if you HAVE to do it on Winblows, at least use gvim!!!
    • Unfortunately, none of this shrink-wrap and click-through stuff is a situation where you really have any power or any ability to negotiate. You can't strike out clauses and see if they'll agree to accept them.

      The same holds true when you're signing, say a morgage. The person in front of you is typically a minion from a third-party (escrow company). They don't have the power to accept or reject changes and asking for any change will only result in a several-day delay.
    • Send Travis McGee down there to discuss your privacy with them!!!.

    • Re:Just sign here, don't worry, we'd never enforce (Score:5, Insightful)

      by dillon_rinker ( 17944 ) on Friday December 13, 2002 @06:24PM (#4883857) Homepage
      it's a very good idea to assume that contracts really do mean what they say

      This should be hammered into every person - there is no such thing as "boilerplate" in a contract. There is a REASON for EVERY SINGLE WORD (unless the attorney who prepared it is guilty of malpractice) It doesn't "become operative someday" - it is in force the second you agree to it. You may not understand the purpose of all the text in the contract, but the attorneys who prepared it do, and will enforce it if you arouse their ire.
      • This should be hammered into every person - there is no such thing as "boilerplate" in a contract.

        Yes, there is. In real estate, a boiler plate contract is when you go to your local printer and have him print a copy of your contract with the header "STANDARD CONTRACT" on top.

        Ideally, you should have two different copies of your "STANDARD CONTRACT" -- one for when you're buying real estate and one for when you're selling real estate. And of course, you should always impose your own copy of your contract on your adversary.

    • Dynamic EULAs (Score:2, Interesting)

      by _KhlER3L ( 601441 )
      You mention the ability to alter contracts when doing business face to face.

      Maybe digital EULAs could do the same. They could have checkboxes that would change the installation process, maybe leaving parts out, or adding parts, or changing things like expiry dates, depending on what the user agreed to, with background logic creating a balance of acceptable terms for the software developer. A DEULA could be returned to the software developer via the web to automate a custom fee structure.

      Right now, they are, at least in every instance I've found them, monolithic documents with a single, giant checkbox. Perhaps the future EULA will be a tree heirarchy of optional clauses.

      Thinking the idea might be useful as software becomes more and more a mix of commercial and free software, with their possibly conflicting licenses.

      Just an idea.. Maybe a bad one since it would keep lawyers employed.

      _KhlER3L

  • Shhhhhocking! (Score:4, Funny)

    by Longinus ( 601448 ) on Friday December 13, 2002 @05:42PM (#4883627) Homepage
    Those accursed SBC Yahoo!DSL ads have been saturating the airwaves recently, and its driving me apeshit crazy to see SBC touting the wonderful new service as "personalized Internet" (the exact slogan is "Internet that logs onto you"--insert Soviet Russia joke here). All it is a Yahoo! page created dynamically (they make a big deal out of this fact) based on users interests that they set when installing the "upgrade". There may be some lame toolbar or other IE customizations or something useless and obtrusive like that.

    They're just bundling in consumer profiling into the ISP, so people basically pay to be advertised to under the guise of having a homepage that displays things they're interested in (and apparently everyone is interested in consumer goods, top 40 music, and celebrity gossip). Obviously this is a staggering innovation, perhaps patent worthy (if Amazon hasn't beaten them to the punch, natch).

    The whole scheme is just retarded and I had a nice chuckle when SBC (my ISP...) emailed me offering a free (!) upgrade to Yahoo!DSL. Fortunately this "service" isn't supported under Linux, so I could use it even if I wanted to.

  • "Privacy" (Score:2, Insightful)

    by thellamaman ( 631602 )

    I just love the way everything's been portrayed so positively in recent years. Very rarely now do you hear the prefix "anti-". Everything has a warm, fuzzy sound to it. My point being.. why has every site's "policy of how much we use your info to screw you" become a "privacy policy"? If someone started a crummy site up that gleefully sucked in SSNs and credit card numbers only to auction them off for identity theft, no doubt there would still be a cute little link that said "Privacy Policy." I presume it would say:

    • We understand that your personal information is very valuable to you. We just thought you'd like to share the wealth! It's very valuable to us, too. Hehe, yes, very valuable! We'll give your information to only the best identity thieves, so they'll make sure your assets are done away with quickly and easily

    Don't get me wrong, I enjoy Yahoo! services and think their policy is quite reasonable. It just seems like a little more truth is in order sometimes.

  • The Note (and my opinion) (Score:4, Informative)

    by Valen0 ( 325388 ) <michael.elvenstar@tv> on Friday December 13, 2002 @05:45PM (#4883643)
    I still have the note about this in my mailbox from Monday...
    *begin note*
    Dear SBC DSL Internet Services Member,

    SBC Internet Services* has been working to improve your member benefits. We've recently joined forces with the world's number one Internet destination -- Yahoo!(R) -- to bring you SBC Yahoo! DSL, a powerful new, feature-rich Internet experience that will replace your existing SBC Internet service.

    Upgrade here: http://yahoo.sbc.com/activatedsl/upgrade.html

    Upgrade to SBC Yahoo! DSL today. We've designed your new service so you can upgrade in just minutes, and of course, upgrade is free. All you have to do is follow the on-screen
    instructions. It's that easy. Before you know it, you'll be enjoying a whole new set of nhancements, but 4 important aspects of your account won't be affected by this upgrade:

    Your email address will stay the same.
    Your monthly price will stay the same.**
    Your billing method will stay the same.
    Your high speed DSL Internet connection will stay the same.

    _

    With SBC Yahoo! DSL, you are in control. You have the power to choose which software to download based on the features you want: ***

    + SBC Yahoo! Browser Environment Software
    This software package gives you the SBC Yahoo! DSL custom browser with built-in Messenger and LAUNCHcast Radio plus easy access to email, finance, games, and more. In addition, this package also includes Parental Controls and Firewall software.

    + SBC Yahoo! Dial Connection Manager Software
    Loading this software gives you unlimited remote dial-up access to your account, so you have the ability to log in
    with your existing email and password even when you're on
    the road.

    + SBC Connection Manager Software (coming early 2003)
    This software includes a large set of support tools that monitor, test, and repair your DSL connection to ensure high-quality service. In addition, the SBC Connection Manager will diagnose any connection problems and provide automated help to resolve the issue.

    Mac users can also upgrade to the SBC Yahoo! DSL experience.
    Download for Mac users is coming soon.

    _

    Once you upgrade... you'll receive incredible new features and services, including:

    + A home page you can customize to give you the information and features you want.
    + Email account with 25MB of online storage space.
    + 10 FREE additional email addresses - each with 10MB online storage space.
    + 110MB of online storage with SBC Yahoo! Photos and Briefcase.
    + 3 premium listings in both SBC Yahoo! Classifieds and SBC Yahoo! Auctions.
    + 2 select premium services like Bill Pay and Games memberships.
    + 20% discount on additional Premium Services in select categories.

    Don't wait. Upgrade now and start enjoying your enhanced Internet experience right away. And be sure to check your email for additional information about your account update.

    Upgrade here: http://yahoo.sbc.com/activatedsl/upgrade.html

    P.S. Remember - your email address stays the same, your monthly price stays the same, your billing method stays the same, and your high speed DSL Internet connection stays the same. Act now. It only takes a few minutes to upgrade to the custom features of SBC Yahoo! DSL.

    If you have any questions please go to http://yahoo.sbc.com/activatedsl/ for additional
    information. For technical support please call:
    1-877-SBC-DSL5

    * Pacific Bell Internet Services, Nevada Bell Internet Services, Southwestern Bell Internet Services, Ameritech Interactive Media Services, SNET Diversified Group and Prodigy Communications, L.P.

    ** Your basic monthly price does not change during your existing term commitment.

    *** Download of software is not required for the upgrade.
    Download available for Windows users with
    Internet Explorer 5.0 or above. Mac users can also upgrade to the SBC Yahoo! DSL experience. Download for Mac users is coming soon. Minimum systems requirements are provided online for the options you choose to download.

    SBC Yahoo! DSL is an information service that combines DSL transport, Internet access and applications from SBC Internet Services, with customized content, services, and applications from Yahoo! Inc., to provide the customer with
    high-speed broadband access to the World Wide Web. Further details on offers/packages provided during enrollment and registration. Acceptance of Terms of Service required.

    Yahoo!, the Yahoo! logo and other Yahoo! logos and product and service names are the trademarks and/or registered trademarks of Yahoo! Inc. SBC, the SBC logo and all other SBC logos and product and service names are the trademarks and/or registered trademarks of SBC Properties, L.P. All
    other brand names may be trademarks or registered
    trademarks of their respective owners.

    (c) 2002 SBC Properties, L.P. and Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved.

    Privacy Policy: http://yahoo.sbc.com/privacy
    *end note*
    My thoughts: I don't think I'm going to "upgrade". From the note at the bottom about "your price will not change during your term commitment", I'm thinking that it's a trial of a more expensive service. I staying with the regular service. My server computer runs Mozilla on FreeBSD anyway. I don't need any of the Yahoo stuff.

    NOTE: This post was edited to pass the "Lameness/Junk" filter. Slashdot didn't like the long horizontal lines that were in the Email.

    NOTE2: This post was edited to pass the "too few characters for line" filter. Slashdot didn't like the way the lines were broke up.

    • SBC, CPNI, and targeting small ISPs (Score:5, Informative)

      by Tackhead ( 54550 ) on Friday December 13, 2002 @06:28PM (#4883884)
      From the Note:


      > Your email address will stay the same.
      >Your monthly price will stay the same.**
      >Your billing method will stay the same.
      > Your high speed DSL Internet connection will stay the same.

      "**"? Why did I just instinctively reach for my wallet?

      >[...]With SBC Yahoo! DSL, you are in control. You have the power to choose which software to download based on the features you want: ***

      "***"? ...and my firewall? :-)

      Interestingly enough, just a few weeks ago, I got a snail mailing regarding an opportunity to opt out of SBC's sell^H^H^Hharing of my CPNI (Customer Proprietary Network Information) data.

      Unless I opted out, SBC promised that it would dutifully use the record of every phone number I dialled to figure out what sorts of crap^H^H^H^Hexciting products and services I might be interested in.

      I wondered how the fuck a phone company could use that, and then I realized that if SBC is partnering up with Yahoo in order to provide DSL, that going through every phone user's CPNI records to target ad campaigns to users of competing (dial-up) ISPs would be a perfect application of this.

      After all, with CPNI data, SBC could easily send "u wan2 swtch frm AOL" mailings to AOL users, "Tired of seeing Sky Dayton buggering the rotting corpse of Mindspring/Netcom every day?" mailings to Earthlink users of Mindspring or Netcom POPs, and "Why are you still with these small-timers" to users of independent/local ISPs.

      Rant: I hate telcos. I hate marketroids. They seem to feed off each other, in an evil, sickening way that makes spammers seem honest by comparison.

      At any rate, if you do business with SBC, I'd strongly recommend that you opt-out [sbc.com] of having your calling records used for marketing purposes. (You'll need a copy of your phone bill to use that link. A few days later, you'll get a receipt in the snail-mail confirming your opt-out. No word on how long it lasts, but knowing the DMA, you'll probably have to jump through the hoop on at least an annual basis. )

      • And you know what the great thing is? when you call the CPNI hotline to opt-out, the guy ends it by trying to sell you 'value added services'!
      • At any rate, if you do business with SBC, I'd strongly recommend that you opt-out [sbc.com] of having your calling records used for marketing purposes.
        Is the CPNI opt-out some sort of California regulatory action or something? The link you provided only covers PacBell and if you search the SBC website and look for a personal info opt-out for the old Southwestern Bell (including Texas) there is nothing there.

        SBC are bastards deluxe. When I signed up for DSL months ago they were advertising 384 Kbps minimum speeds. I have only gotten over 300 Kbps TWICE in that period.

        A friend of mine who lives nearby only gets 150 Kbps! We both live in a barrio, maybe I need to poll DSL customers here in North Houston to see if there is a pattern of substandard service in minority neighborhoods.

        If there is I am sure the Texas Public Utility Commission would like to hear about it, but seeing as how Texas is "governed" by pro-business Republican assholes I am not holding my breath...
  • Before everyone goes jumping all over SBC and Yahoo (trust me - I'm not an apologist for either of them), michael is right - the reporter did a really poor job looking into why Yahoo might need a user's Social Security number or info about their assets. It's akin to asking why someone needs your street address when they want to send you something you've ordered (oh, wait, Bezos is trying the patent that, isn't he? ;).

  • There is more here than you think. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by immanis ( 557955 ) <immanis AT sfgoth DOT com> on Friday December 13, 2002 @05:46PM (#4883653) Homepage Journal

    I was involved in a DSL project in Japan that used a piece of third-party software that was, essentially, a program that would examine your system and create a file that contained things like OS, Memory, CPU, Disk Size, monitor type, and anything else like this that it could find out.

    This file was supposed to sit there until the DSL provider requested it behind the scenes. The purpose? Database Marketing. By knowing how old your system is, they can target you for new system sales. By knowing how small your monitor is, they can target you for sale of a bigger one. And so on.

    I left before I heard about successful launch. So I don't know if it ever went live. But do _NOT_ for one minute believe that there is "nothing to this kind of report." I've seen it. I can't say for sure that this is, in fact, what the Yahoo!DSL in the US is up to, but let's say it would not surprise me.

  • michael's behavior continues to astound. If MS had done something even remotely similar to this, he would have launched into them with a tirade that would still be going on, yet, here, he equivocates for Yahoo. I realize this is not much of a surprise to some, but it still amazes me how utterly biased the slashdot editors are.

    ObTopic: Generally, i think the EULA game is just a giant CYA exercise. Companies absolutely have to do this kind of stuff because you never know how you're going to get sued. MS had to word the EULA that way because thhe web-updates would download and install only IF you gave the auto-updater the chance to do so. Yahoo, similarly, IS exchanging financial info, and has to be restrictive. EULAs are EULAs. If you don't like them, don't play.
    • I agree in principle, but in practice, the EULAs are overbroad and are enforced that way. In other words, the corps get not only the rights they need, but a whole class of rights.

      It's as if MS needs the number 4 and 2000 but asserts that they have a right to all the integers. Sure, they just want to be sure that you don't misuse the numbers that are theirs, but you can be sure that some enterprising manager will find a way to take advantage of all those extra numbers.

      The GIF patent is another example of this. It is clear by the actions of the patent holders that they did not intend (originally) to maliciously enforce it, but somebody at the corp that held the patent saw a great way to produce revenue for the corp and (more importantly) inflate his/her own importance (look at the cash I generated for the company!). Intentions don't matter, really. No matter how much you trust the current management of the corporation, future management may decide to follow through on doing all that you said they could.

  • Simple Solution (Score:3, Funny)

    by Photon Ghoul ( 14932 ) on Friday December 13, 2002 @05:59PM (#4883730)
    I just use my 56k modem after dropping my DSL. No funky software to install.

    *locks himself in the bathroom and cries like a baby*
  • I recently did the switch although I knew it was to my detriment one day. So far I had some choices on what premium Yahoo services I wanted. I opted for additional briefcase storage for photos and files, and premium games ( which seems to just be so that I can enter tournaments with other Yahoo users that paid to play the free games) Plus it helps appease my wife since she can have 8 additional premium email boxes from Yahoo with POP access, vs SBC only giving us 2.

    I think the incessant bombarding of commercials may have brainwashed me for an instant as well "My wife didnt even know I liked Salsa music..."
  • Yahoo!'s actions are yet another example of the fascist imperialist corporate state forcing ordinary people to lose their privacy or become second class citizens. Not content with subscriptions and adverts, they want to own your computer too. This is just another example of the type of corporate control we should expect with the current regime, ie the Bush administration, in power, which exists to funnel money from hard working ordinary people into the coffers of the already obscenely rich while trying to divert attention from what it's doing by setting up fake wars - ie Iraq, Afghanistan, France, etc.

    The agenda of Yahoo is the same as it is for all the giant corporations, ie Microsoft, WalMart, AT&T, Sam Adams, AOL Time Warner, etc; it's to turn you into a wage earning slave exploiting your production on one hand, while controlling what you spend with the pitiful money they give you.

    This quagmire of big business and big gubmint working together to exploit you must end. But it will not happen by itself. Resources need to be devoted, and unless people are prepared to actually act, not just talk about it on Slashdot, nothing will ever get done. Apathy is not an option.

    You can help by getting off your rear and writing to your congressman [house.gov] or senator [senate.gov], or to the Bush Family Evil Empire at the White House [mailto]. Tell them that personal freedom and privacy combined with decent working conditions, a fair wage for a fair day's work, and decent, affordable, universal health care, are important to you - that you should have the rightt to control that that you store on your own disks. Tell them that you are appalled at Yahoo!'s and the pResident's efforts in this area, but that in the absense of full disclosure, you will have to find a less secure and intelligently run country to live in. Let them know that SMP may make or break whether you can efficiently deploy OpenBSD on your workstations and servers. Explain the concerns you have about freedom, openness, and choice, and how a corporate state run for greed's sake that exploits the workers destroys all three. Let them know that this is an issue that effects YOU directly, that YOU vote, and that your vote will be influenced, indeed dependent, on his or her policy on the rights of ordinary, hard working, people.

    You CAN make a difference. Don't treat voting as a right, treat it as a duty. Keep informed, keep your political representatives informed on how you feel. And, most importantly of all, vote.

    • Yeah, yeah...

      Although I think that there are ligitimate grounds to complain on about software and phone service, I think that your rant goes over the edge. The majority of people out there doing business are people like you or I who choose operating a business as what to do with their life. There is certainly nothing evil about running a business. You talk about Wal-mart, Pac Bell, Yahoo! like they have a mind of their own. I will point out to you that these companies are founded and continue to be operated by human beings.

      If you want to complain about a monopoly that provides inefficient service and crushes any competition, go complain about the US Postal Service

      Finally, if you are reading this comment and remember only one thing, remember this: "Free Universal Health Coverage" is 100% pure BS. Someone is going to pay for it - we are. I suppose that since you imply that you aren't in business, you are a wage-earner. That money that you never see, that is taken from you paycheck every pay period, is where the money for "free" health care will come from. The US government can't just create free health care out of thin air any more than you or I could. Just remember, when you see the likes of Hillary Clinton, Robert Byrd, John Kerry, and Tom Daschle talk about providing you free healthcare, just remember where the money is going to come from. They want to raise your taxes until they own you and you are eating out of their hand of the US government.

    • They're so amazingly great! So, do you just copy and paste, or do you have a script that posts for you? And, is this a formal experiment in karma, or just a fun little game you're playing, or is this maybe a sociology experiment? Whichever it is, it seems to be working! Every time you post this rant with the blanks filled in, you get modded up, and not as funny either! You actually are hooking suckers with every single post! Too bad karma numbers aren't available any more to check your progress.

  • they dont allow servers anymore either (Score:3, Informative)

    by heff ( 24452 ) on Friday December 13, 2002 @06:13PM (#4883797)
    I refused to upgrade my account,
    the new contract prohibits the running of any kind of server on their service.

    It wont be long before they start portscanning people and sending off nasty letters like @home did back in the days.

    I really dont see what the problem is, they limit your upstream data to around 12/Ks. It's not like anything could clog the network.

  • Installed SBC/Yahoo as a new customer. (Score:4, Informative)

    by slackpad ( 557479 ) on Friday December 13, 2002 @06:15PM (#4883811)
    I just set up a new account with SBC/Yahoo. They no longer send you your PPPOE username/password - you have to run their monolithic installer to set up your account the first time. After that, though, it's regular PPPOE. I set up a sacrificial Windows machine to get my account info, then blew it all away and set up my Linksys router to do the PPPOE - it's working fine. None of their crappy software seems to be required at the moment.
    • Writing your own AOL-like dialer interface is expensive. Writing a program that looks like you have your own dialer, but really is just quitely going down the the Windows Registry and setting up DUN/RAS connections is easy.

      The dialer program is really designed to cut down on the number of "how do I set this thing up?" tech support calls. Speaking of tech support, notice how they're not exactly blasting an easy to remember 1-800 number like "1-800-PRODIGY" that they had before.

  • ITS TRUE! SHOUT IT FROM THE ROOFTOPS! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 13, 2002 @06:18PM (#4883825)
    I recently switched over to Yahoo!/SBC DSL thinking it would be neat to have access to the Yahoo! features. I had a problem with the install (after agreeing to the Orwellian user agreement) and decided to call tech support. A fellow named O'Brien answered. It started out friendly and he guided me through setting up online Solitaire, but things rapidly deteriorated. He began to question me about my sexuality - pointed questions that were quite disturbing. I tried to deflect them and get back to my Yahoo! DSL problems but he wouldn't let up. Finally I told him that he was behaving inappropriately and I wanted to talk to his manager. He called me a "thought criminal" and said I was dressing too flamboyantly. He said he was watching me through my webcam (apparently I agreed to this in the Orwellian user agreement) and to remain seated, as he was dispatching a team of Yahooligans to begin my re-education. I sit here paralyzed with fear, knowing that all that once was is no more. Pray for me.

  • Inevitability... (Score:3)

    by WeaponOfChoice ( 615003 ) on Friday December 13, 2002 @06:26PM (#4883865) Homepage
    I find it endlessly amusing that the same people who hark on about the hopelessness of the DRM cause and the certainty that the onwards march of technology will defeat every effort to maintain conventional copyright control of digital works somehow fail to make the connection that that self-same march will achieve much the same ends when it comes to their own online privacy. Technology is a two (or n) edged sword, it can give us freedoms we never dreamed of and expose us to scrutiny the likes of which Orwell himself never imagined. The common thread is the inevitability of it all - the technology will find a way and cares not as to whether the use to which it is being put is benign or malignant...

  • Well..... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Newer Guy ( 520108 ) on Friday December 13, 2002 @06:28PM (#4883883)
    They do bill it as: "The Internet that knows you" They simply don't elaborate how much it knows....
  • I was first with flashnet. Prodigy bought them so it became Flashnet by Prodigy or something like that. Then they merged with SBC and became SBC Prodigy or something. Now all this with Yahoo. Is my isp called Flashnet-Prodigy-SBC-Yahoo?

    Funny, after Flashnet gave us a cd, prodigy gave us a couple cd's, sbc gave us one, and yahoo gave another, I've never installed any of it. I had to change my dialup number once, but besides that, everything works great.

  • So what's the point? (Score:3, Funny)

    by Squirrel Killer ( 23450 ) on Friday December 13, 2002 @06:40PM (#4883964)
    The story's a little overblown - Yahoo's privacy policy reads that way because they offer financial services and the like, where they may well need financial information from you to provide the service.
    So if the story is an overblown, muck raking, piece of non-news, why are you bothering to post it to the front page? It's like yelling, "Hey guys, listen up! Nevermind!"

  • Why A Blanket Policy? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by John Hasler ( 414242 ) on Friday December 13, 2002 @06:41PM (#4883979) Homepage
    > Yahoo's privacy policy reads that way because
    > they offer financial services and the like, where
    > they may well need financial information from you
    > to provide the service.

    Why can't they have different policies for different services?
  • The story's a little overblown - Yahoo's privacy policy reads that way because they offer financial
    services and the like, where they may well need financial information from you to provide the service. The reporter
    needed to investigate this new software DSL users are being asked to install, and find out what sort of user tracking
    it enables.

    This disclaimer simply magnifies the fact that Slashdot would like to be something more than simply a headline mirror, without all the trappings that come with journalistic integrity. What, exactly, do Slashdot editors "edit" if not the stories they post? Shouldn't the stories be checked out first? And if a story is bogus (as this one seems to be), wouldn't the appropriate action be to pull the story?

    I can't quite figure out what /. wants to be when it grows up (if it ever does). Neither can I, so I can sympathize.

  • Not a reporter (Score:2, Interesting)

    by basso ( 230632 )
    The reporter needed to investigate this new software DSL users are being asked to install, and find out what sort of user tracking it enables.
    David Lazarus is a columnist for the Chronicle's business pages. Michael's point may be good but it's important to realize that the writer isn't under the same sort of obligations that a reporter would be.
  • I called tech support and got the URL for signing up on line. (might have to try a few techs) it was something like http://register.sbcglobal.net sorry i forget.
    Then installed enternet 300 only
    E:\Setup\Efficient\reboot\setup.exe on my cd. No need for all their crap.

    Going to try raspppoe next.
    http://user.cs.tu-berlin.de/~normanb/

    They dont support it but their tech support is worthless anyway, they want you to uninstall anything that is not their network, seems thats always the problem in their mind, even when their field tech cant ping their server. :)
    OH well it is better than 56K

  • SBC is defiling our nation's pastime (Score:3, Insightful)

    by llamaluvr ( 575102 ) on Friday December 13, 2002 @07:10PM (#4884183) Journal
    Remember, when stadiums had cool names, like "Candlestick", or "Ebbet's", or "Joe Robbie", or "Municipal" (well, okay, not "Municipal")? Or when bowl games were called "Rose" and "Orange"? Now our stadiums are called "Comerica" and "Pro Player" and "Gilette" and "Tampax" or whatever! And our bowls are called "Tostitos" and "Chic-Fil-A"(!)! Corporate influences have destroyed sports in America.

    Anyway, there once was a park called Pac Bell. Granted, the name indicated that it was one of those "corporately defiled" stadiums, but it had a nice ring to it. But now we're going to have to call it SBC? [go.com]!?! They have gone too far...

    Comapnies need to 1) Stop being so schizophrenic, and 2) go away.

    Okay, you can mod me -1: Offtopic now
  • "[...] use of the new software is covered by Yahoo's privacy policy, which is just a bit more Orwellian."

    As everybody seems to know the name already, perhaps you'd be interested in reading some of his essays, newspaper columns, letters and editorials [resort.com].

    From the page: Orwell was 47 years old when he succumbed to tuberculosis in January 1950.

  • I have PacBell DSL (or SBC... whatever). I've gotten bombarded with things in the mail touting this SBC/Yahoo! thing. I went through the transition process and, after reading some of the license agreement, declined. I'll be switching soon, probably to SpeakEasy. I just don't like, or understand, all of the things going on behind my back here.
  • On the 8th day, the Lord created Coyote linux (www.coyotelinux.com).

    And the masses thanked the lord for a floppy disk based linux router with simple PPPoE support.

    And verily the masses did get IP addresses from SBC without the use of cheesy 'client software.'

    And the masses touted a simple, open source solution that even the unenlighted masses could benefit from, and could be used to show heathens the path towards enlightenment.

    And the masses did continue to enjoy the use of their DSL lines.

    And there was much rejoicing.
  • I helped my mother through the "upgrade," reading all the new agreements and not letting her download any new software. We got to a point in the activation where it said "upgrading your system" and then it said it had changed her Outlook Express settings automatically - this from within what was either a Java or ActiveX-based browser page, without us hitting any "ok" on any downloads, and running IE with "medium" level security, no default acceptance of certificates, etc.

    I'm wondering, how could it do this? She never had the original software installed (I set up RASPPPoE instead until I could get her a router - SBC is still behind the times here, using PPPoE and not ATM), and the idea that something could just start changing settings in other programs from within a browser, without any warning, worries me. Shouldn't this be considered a security vulnerability?

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