Follow Slashdot stories on Twitter

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×
The Courts Government News Your Rights Online

Johansen Trial Underway 227

Info is trickling in about Jon Johansen's trial In Norway, where he is accused of violating Norwegian law. Aftenposten and VG Nett have stories, and there's at least one amateur account of the trial. The trial is supposed to last a week, and I'm sure Slashdot will keep up with it, so please submit only *new* stories about it, thanks.
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Johansen Trial Underway

Comments Filter:
  • Is Johansen a saint (Score:5, Interesting)

    by nutshell42 ( 557890 ) on Monday December 09, 2002 @04:47PM (#4846334) Journal
    An interesting link which was posted in the heise-forum:

    http://www.debian.org/~kju/decsstruth.txt

    in short:

    He stole the source, violated the GPL and didn't even have a linux-box.

    I don't know whether it's true but it sounds convincing

  • by core plexus ( 599119 ) on Monday December 09, 2002 @04:48PM (#4846341) Homepage
    Does anyone else get the feeling that this group of thugs need to be stopped? I almost said 'before they form their own "shadow government",' but hell, why bother? It appears "the entertainment industry" already owns the U.S. Government, or at least what they need to. And as they control all the mainstream "news", they can dispense with their propanganda all they like. The Average American Viewer just bellies up to the trough and laps it up, blissfully ignorant.

    I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore! Where's the "War on The Entertainment Industry Axis of Evil"? Sign me up!

    I'd also like to point out that we can all file "Pro Se" civil suits against the companies/individuals (once we have a list of the perpetrators), and many jurisdictions have provision for a "Public Interest" suit. Still, it'll only cost you $100 (at least that is the filing fee for Superior Court-where you can ask for any amount in damages), but it'll cost them thousands of dollars PER HOUR, per case. But I don't want to be the 'Little Red Hen', or else I'll be eating my bread alone.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 09, 2002 @04:52PM (#4846384)
    After reading the article, it's interesting to note that a U.S. based company also sells a program which will burn a DVD after breaking the encryption on it.

    So as long as you're a recognized company in the U.S., you can do whatever you want. To quote Austin Powers, "Yay Capitalism!"
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 09, 2002 @04:54PM (#4846406)
    Actually, many US Companies point to trends in Europe for what they'd like here. For example, the 1976 Copyright act was largely created so we'd be in line with the Berne Convention. Today, the laws are written to be similar to what's going on in the European Union.
  • by tomhudson ( 43916 ) <barbara,hudson&barbara-hudson,com> on Monday December 09, 2002 @05:09PM (#4846522) Journal
    <quote>

    State prosecutor Inger Marie Sunde claimed in an Oslo city court Monday that Jon Lech Johansen is guilty of breaching protection mechanisms in DVDs, ...

    </quote>

    The DVD itself is not altered. The protection mechanism that is being bypassed is in the DVD player.

  • by lkstrand ( 463964 ) on Monday December 09, 2002 @05:10PM (#4846535) Homepage

    According to the norwegian law professor Jon Bing, the outcome of this court is of historical intrest only:

    http://www.vg.no/pub/vgart.hbs?artid=995988 [www.vg.no]

    The reason for this is that after DVD-Jon was accused, the EU has got the EUCD/Infosoc directive wich is the european equvialence to DMCA.

  • Re:So what... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Pedrito ( 94783 ) on Monday December 09, 2002 @05:11PM (#4846539)
    How about Galileo's trial?

    Not really. I mean, in Galileo's trial, everyone understood the issues involved. They simply refused to believe them. Maybe I'm wrong, but it's not like Johansen is tried to prove something that people didn't believe. He may be convicted because the courts don't understand the issues. That's a different animal, I believe.
  • by icantblvitsnotbutter ( 472010 ) on Monday December 09, 2002 @05:48PM (#4847061)
    I don't know if it's so much the industry has the government in its pocket, as the government is happy to let things appear this way. Money flows in, the industry seems to get what it wants.

    My opinion is that the industry's latest push just happens to mesh well with the government's search to control information flow. Starting with populist (and popular) devices/media seems to me an ideal way to get the hooks in.

    Think about Clear Channel's ownership of almost all major radio stations. Or the way that the HDTV selloff (giveaway) went. It's much more than a simple who-owns-what, because the who (and how few) counts more than the what.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 09, 2002 @05:51PM (#4847095)
    http://politechbot.com/p-04233.html [politechbot.com]


    Somewhere in that there was some coverage of Jon having three OSen
    installed (FreeBSD, GNU/Linux and Windows), during which the prosecutor
    got confused by Jon referring to "GNU/Linux", rather than "Linux" per
    se; and appeared to be confused about how one computer can have more
    than one O/S (or, at least, there was a confusion which appeared to be
    about dual boot).


    Informal DeCSS History Timeline [harvard.edu]:
    http://eon.law.harvard.edu/openlaw/DVD/ research/ch ronology.html

    Johansen and livid-dev [harvard.edu]:
    http://eon.law.harvard.edu/archive/dvd -discuss/msg 01540.html


    I read through a lot of the list and several things struck me. Overall,
    I see the list as lending a lot of credibility to Johansen's case. I
    don't see it casting doubt as to this.


    This sounds more convincing to me.
  • Re:So what... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by kilogram ( 520192 ) on Monday December 09, 2002 @05:56PM (#4847232) Homepage
    It occurs to me that having trials where the judge, prosecution, or defense are so technologically behind, how is one to get a fair trial?

    Well, there are two literates/commoners that will be deciding his penalty. These are actually mentioned in a few of the articles, and they have first been screened on experience and skills, then the prosecution and defense have settled on the two now chosen.

    I read a quote from one of Norway's most prominent geeks, Jon Bing, earlier today; "Johansen is actually charged for breaking into his own property", which could describe the entire case. He has never actually distributed the movies, which is the only thing that Norwegian laws actually forbid. (You *can* copy whatever you want for your own personal use, but you *can't* distribute them)

    Further, whatever the judgement will be, this will not set legal precendence in Norway, as the DMCA (or something very similar) probably will be enforced shortly, thus overriding the older laws.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 09, 2002 @06:28PM (#4847692)
    Jon got hold of a trade secret - the decode matrix was open and he snaffled it.

    You can't patent or copyright a trade secret, since these require disclosure.
  • by perbu ( 624267 ) on Monday December 09, 2002 @06:33PM (#4847770)
    The case is somewhat redundant. Thanks to some UN copyright directive, legislation is already on the way to ensure that the next hacker which does anything like this will be put away without to much fuzz. So, the case will not be of any juridical significance.

    The defendant did not write the program in questing, the state hasn't got the faintest idea how a computer works, and decss is not that (technically) exciting compared to libdvdread [freshmeat.net].

    Have there been any legal issues with libdvdread?

  • by sjgman9 ( 456705 ) on Monday December 09, 2002 @08:32PM (#4849195)
    Bullshit. No company paid attention to the fact that there would be a market for a Linux/FreeBSD DVD player (or if not a market, then at least a NEED for a DVD player).

    So what if he reverse-engineered the CSS algorithm? Its just a math equation, albeit complicated. The creators of the CSS algorithm must not have been ignorant of Moore's Law (processors double in speed every 18 months).

    DeCSS was used for Jon to watch movies he bought on his computer. Most DVD players on windows include a DVD-Application anyway. Is using linux a crime? True, some other people can use the decrypted movie files, pipe them into the DiVX slimming machine and burn out 700 meg VCDs, but

    MOST PEOPLE DONT KNOW HOW TO SET THEIR VCR CLOCKS, LET ALONE PROGRAM A COMPUTER.

    I still value going to Blockbuster and renting a DVD for $4. Its a great deal for the money. DVD's are $20-30 in price, some cheaper, and its also a fair price to pay.

    True, with my knowledge of DeCSS, I CAN rent a movie, watch it, Rip it overnight and burn a VCD then return it, but I dont. Id miss out on the cool featurettes that make DVDs worth the money.

    All math equations and computer code are free speech. Especially the GPL. Just let the kid be free.
  • by HiThere ( 15173 ) <charleshixsn@ear ... .net minus punct> on Monday December 09, 2002 @08:56PM (#4849439)
    I used to believe that judges were frequently incompetent. Then I finally decided that there couldn't be that many incompetent judges. This leaves a few choices:
    1) many judges have a known track record, and the da is able to manipulate which judge will hear which case.
    2) many judges have been corrupted.
    3) most defense lawyers are incompetent relative to most district attorneys.
    4) some combination of the above
    5) ??? (somthing I haven't thought of)

    E.g., consider the case which declared that corporations were people. This is a totally absurd assertion, but it has been a "fact" for over a century. It is the source of much that is wrong with the US, and it traces back to one court decision involving a railway company in California during the latter half of the 1800's. If I decide that this is because of corruption, then either every supreme court since then has been corrupt, of the legal system has no means of correcting errors. If I decide that it's because of incompetence, then...

    And I'm *SURE* not going to decide that it's a sensible decision.

  • Re:Asinine (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Dyolf Knip ( 165446 ) on Monday December 09, 2002 @11:07PM (#4850491) Homepage
    "the nerds, geeks, etc. don't have a fucking clue about the legal system and yet they are trying offer commentary about it."

    Similarly, "the judges, the lawyers, the politicians, etc. don't have a fucking clue about technology and yet they are regularly passing summary judgement on it and destroying people's lives over issues they don't even come close to understanding." Hmmm, I wonder which is more dangerous, abusive, irresponsible, and totally reprehensible behavior?

    I find it unlikely that 'GUI' and 'GNU/Linux' were the only technical terms that arose. If the prosecutor understood but didn't question the others, why these? Declan McCullagh's suggesting that the prosecutor didn't know was likely prompted by more than a simple, "Please explain for the court what a GUI is." On the other hand, 'GUI' is found pretty early on when picking up the jargon, even thumbing through a 'Computers for Absolute Dummies'...

    Ah, screw it. This account is second hand from someone who admittedly doesn't know the language particularly well. Let's wait until we get the actual transcript translated by someone able to read it.

  • by Malcontent ( 40834 ) on Tuesday December 10, 2002 @04:09AM (#4852370)
    Did you ever write code? Did you test that code? Did you test the code by throwing in unexpected parameters and seeing how the system behaved?

    Maybe we ought to the same with the legal system. Take a thousand white people and a thousand black people of varying economic levels and throw them into the system. Knowing full well that every single one of them are innocent I wonder how many will come out of the system and how many will end up in jail or on death row?

    As it is now. If you are 100% absolutely innocent the best thing that can happen to you if you are arrested is that you will go broke, lose your job, and lose your family and friends. The worst thing that can happen to you is that you will die. The US legal system is horrible that way. Once you are in it you are fucked royally.
  • by IncarnationTwo ( 457191 ) on Tuesday December 10, 2002 @06:13AM (#4852826)
    Umh. Not applicable in Norway but in EU.
    Have I understood this right:

    EUCD says:

    [clip]

    (52) When implementing an exception or limitation for private copying
    in accordance with Article 5(2)(b), Member States should likewise
    promote the use of voluntary measures to accommodate achieving the
    objectives of such exception or limitation. If, within a reasonable
    period of time, no such voluntary measures to make reproduction for
    private use possible have been taken, Member States may take measures
    to enable beneficiaries of the exception or limitation concerned to
    benefit from it. Voluntary measures taken by rightholders, including
    agreements between rightholders and other parties concerned, as well
    as measures taken by Member States, do not prevent rightholders from
    using technological measures which are consistent with the exceptions
    or limitations on private copying in national law in accordance with
    Article 5(2)(b), taking account of the condition of fair compensation
    under that provision and the possible differentiation between various
    conditions of use in accordance with Article 5(5), such as controlling
    the number of reproductions. In order to prevent abuse of such measures,
    any technological measures applied in their implementation should enjoy
    legal protection.

    And article 5(2)(b):
    (b) in respect of reproductions on any medium made by a natural person
    for private use and for ends that are neither directly nor indirectly
    commercial, on condition that the rightholders receive fair
    compensation which takes account of the application or non-application
    of technological measures referred to in Article 6 to the work or
    subject-matter concerned;
    [/clip]

    *if i read this right* it says to me, that european goverments must
    *help* to break copyright systems that limit fair use [5(2)(b)] if
    copyright holders are compensated for example from empty CD media
    (as they are in finland).

    Am I completely mistaken?

    This would mean that if norway has to abide by EUCD directive because of some trade issues with EU, the fair use enabler should be rewarded not punished?

    Sources:
    (1) http://europa.eu.int/smartapi/cgi/sga_doc?smartapi !celexapi!prod!CELEXnumdoc&lg=EN&numdoc=32001L0029 &model=guichett

Those who can, do; those who can't, write. Those who can't write work for the Bell Labs Record.

Working...