How Has Post-9/11 Legislation Affected You? 1212
goldspider asks: "I hope this is received in the spirit it was intended in. In a recent Reuters article, the Internet as a whole has been referred to as 'collateral damage' of the U.S.-led War on Terrorism, because of the perceived loss in privacy and online rights as a result of post-9/11 legislation. I am curious to hear about some specific examples of how this legislation has personally or professionally affected the everyday lives of Slashdot readers."
Canadian border (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm sick of people saying "Oh, it doesn't bother me because it makes me feel safer." It DOES bother me, and NO, it DOESN'T make me feel safer. If someone wanted to get across the border with explosives or something, they're gonna do it and these stupid spot checks aren't prevent it.
nothing really changed (Score:2, Interesting)
The effects on me (Score:2, Interesting)
The only upside to 9/11 for me has been that people now respect me for the job I try to do much more, previously people griped when being security checked but now very rarely does this occur.
But there are a minority who judge me as though I am poor at my job, especially in light of the current security breaches (check UK news sites) of people managing to smuggle the same weapons as used to hijack the planes on 9/11 on to aircrafts now.
This despite the fact I do the job as I always have done, believing I am protecting the people - working as hard as I possibly can to make sure the tragic events never occur again.
Re:Well, for starters... (Score:3, Interesting)
I can't get drunk at Half Time anymore (Score:2, Interesting)
This isn't all that important to the quality of life, but it's a good example of an institution making a profit oriented rule and hiding it under the false label of increased security.
Great article (Score:5, Interesting)
There was a letter to the editor in this quarter's issue of "2600."
In it, this guy was talking about how he was pulled off a plane just before it was about to leave the gate because a flight attendant saw him reading an article in 2600 about vulnerabilities in "Passport." She claimed he was reading a terrorist pamphlet.
The story of course ends with this guy being rescreened after talking to a few spooks and being let back on the plane. Of course, he said his flight was something like 2 hours late at this point.
Screw the new laws, I'm more worried about the new public attitudes that are letting this kind of shit go down without so much as a second thought.
Things have changed in airline IT (Score:1, Interesting)
Not sure if this is due to legislation. (Score:3, Interesting)
Now, in order to get into the visitors area of EPA building where the "theatre" is, we have to fill out visitor cards with our name, address, phone number, etc. Then we have to fill out a check-in sheet with the guard (with our name, address, phone number, etc).. This isn't too bad, but a bit unusual for 50 people having to fill in to talk about their hobby.
The clincher is we've got a 3rd peice of paperwork to fill out now: Our laptop information. Brand, Model, Serial Number, Name, Address, Phone number, etc. Of course, no one has their serial numbers memorized, so it's time to bust out the laptop bags.
I can somewhat understand since it's in a "government" building - but this is a bit overboard for a hobbyist group meeting. It's worse than going to the airport - picture 50 geeks in line to fill out 3 peices of paperwork, and only 1 of them brought a pen!
Enough ranting now I guess.. I'm gonna have to recommend we meet in McDonalds next time or something.
Re:Canadian border (Score:5, Interesting)
It is so annoying at the borders. Going to the US with my father driving can be trying because he has one of those huge islamic-reminiscent beards (although he's not islamic) and the US border people always root through the car, look in all your containers, make a mess of everything, and don't put anything back where it was. Rude asholes. Do unto others as you would have done unto you. (If you're not white or with white people, you generally experience great discrimination at the US border crossing over from Canada. Sad but true. It's happenned to my family on numerous occasions, before and after 9/11.)
On a similar note, a friend of a friend was driving from (Alberta) Canada to the Utah early this year to attend the Salt Lake City Olympics (as a spectator) and one of the guys he was going with was Islamic and wore a turban. They got across the border without too much trouble but on the interstate, there was a period of about 15 minutes where there was a state trooper car front of them, another behind them, and one on the side, totally boxing them in. The troopers backed off eventually, but still, it is unnerving and (both this the first story are) proof that just the way you look can bring about great discrimination from fearful people.
Reason seems to have stopped in the US (Score:1, Interesting)
When do the american people regain their ability to think for themselves? Bin Laden is still having a field day.
USA Patriot Act (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm SO glad this law is being used for its intended purposes. People who have no problems giving up their civil liberties in the name of "homeland security" are sadly mistaken if they think law enforcement has either the ability or desire to restrain themselves from misusing/abusing their new powers.
In New Zealand (Score:4, Interesting)
In May, I travelled to Honolulu for a conference. I flew directly from Auckland to Honolulu. At Auckland, on the way out, I had to go through two sets of metal detectors and x-rays, as well as a search of my carry-on luggage (although that may have been because I was carrying a plastic poster roll). When I flew from Honolulu back to Auckland, there was just a single metal detector and a single x-ray, and no-one searched my poster roll, which I was still carrying. In short, the security for international flights in New Zealand was much better than in Hawaii.
The Effects on the Other Side (Score:5, Interesting)
Last month, I tried e-mailing a friend who goes by the name of Jamal Bin-Laden (not related at all to the terrorists, he's not even Saudi Arabian). He replied not to MY e-mail but to a forwarded e-mail from my Bahraini ISP. Apparently they blocked the e-mail because of his name, read the contents, and when they saw I was only asking him to bring back some tiny M&M's from London (I'm addicted!) they forwarded it to him without even bothering to cover their tracks. There goes online privacy for you.
And on a related note, I had to cancel my post-grad plans to study in New York after all my Arab friends there came back. Let's just say people weren't very nice to them.
While this might have nothing to do with American legislation, it's somewhat ironic to see how 9/11 effected everyone negatively, Americans & Terr^H^H^H^HArabs alike.
May the victims of 9/11, the starved to death children of Iraq, and online rights all rest in peace.
Re:Well, for starters... (Score:1, Interesting)
brush up on your history. ever hear of the marshall plan? that helped out a few people. others might claim the fall of soviet-style totalitarian communism was a good thing, too. the US also played a central role in starting the IMF, UN, and other such agencies devoted to helping out the rest of the world. furthermore (i can't remember exact numbers, so forgive me) the US spends more on foreign aid than the next 9 richest countries combined.
yeah, the US does so little to help out the rest of the world. the only rue thing in your post is that fuckers like bin-Laden are insane.
Re:No Changes... (Score:5, Interesting)
Am I afraid of police throwing me in jail without access to a lawyer or a trial? A little bit. In any repressive society, you learn to adapt, and you hope you aren't the one singled out for special treatment. You have to be realistic about risks, though. I'm more likely to be killed in a car accident than tortured by police, and I'm more likely to be tortured by police than killed by a terrorist. If you are an active supporter of Bush's perpetual war and are a white christian, then you're probably more likely to die at the hands of a terrorist than the police, but more likely to drown in your bathtub than either.
But the effects of repression go much further than the direct victims. As long as repression against voting-rights activists in the South was successful, all blacks in the South had suffer the daily minor humilations of being second class citizens, as well as make less money for more work due to discrimination and greater power inbalance at work. The most visible effects of the racist violence during the civil rights movement were the bloody bodies and smouldering buildings, but you can bet that millions of blacks had to suffer inferior schools, longer work hours, less access to health care, etc.
Currently, the repression we are seeing benefits anyone with power. For example, even if there isn't a strike on the west-coast docks, the dock workers will be forced to accept less at the bargaining table due to Bush's threat to replace dock workers with soldiers during a strike. This sort of thing will also have a chilling effect for anyone group of workers daring to stand up for themselves. And if some workers must accept less pay and benefits, it has a way of filtering out to the rest of society, making us all work longer for less.
Think back to the days of the Soviet Union after Stalin. There were some high-profile cases of political prisoners, but it wasn't necessary to imprison millions to keep everyone in check. Or China after the massacre at Tiananmen square -- a few thousand were killed and probably a few thousand imprisoned, and that was enough to seriously impact a social movement that could have improved the lives of over a billion people. Sure, 99.999% weren't affected directly by the Chinese repression, but that's more an explanation of why the Chinese repression was successful than a justification for why it was acceptable.
Terrorists checks are just a placebo (Score:5, Interesting)
When I was bringing my bag on the airline, I was checked 3 times. Getting onto every flight and my connecting flights. Somehow I triggered a "possible terrorist" flag and had people hand check my luggage. Maybe it was my scruffy beard?
Anyways when they checked my carry on luggage they ran it through an Xray. They made me take my trekking poles out to see what they were (they are poles for hiking). They didn't care about the pot that showed up as a big grey cylinder in the middle of my pack.
For my carry on luggage I had a camera lens in a 1Liter drink cooler. It was in there because it's soft to keep it from getting damaged. They never opened it up. I can think of all kinds of stuff to put in there... They never once checked the carry on bag itself. Couldn't something be hidden in the liner of the bag?
Coming back I had to have my checkon bag checked again, but this airport didn't have any xray machines. They had to hand check everything. I gave the guy my bag, he opened it up and saw a backpack filled with stuff. He asked me "Is this all hiking gear?". I said yes and he just zipped it up and put it on the belt to go into the plane. Luckily that backpack has 75liters of gear in it and not explosives. I was thinking on the whole flight back:
"Sir is this all camping gear in this backpack?"
"No it's approximately 75Liters of C4."
"Hmmm let me check my manual here... explosives, dynamite, C4. Sorry sir but you can't bring C4 on the plane. You must be an Al Queda terrorist?"
"Why yes I am, I guess you caught me. Take me in."
If a terrorist wants to bring something on the plane, it's going to get on the plane. The people who setup these security checkpoints are either:
A. Ignorant.
B. Setting up a Placebo
C. Making a boost in their political career.
D. All of the above.
You choose.
Amtrak, etc. (Score:5, Interesting)
Case in point.
I was on an Amtrak train to Washington, DC. I walked down the corridor, down the steps, onto the train. I hung out in my chair, and when I was asked for my ticket, I said, 'I'd like to buy one please.' We were already well on our way, and I'd bought tickets before on the train, not a big deal, there's like a three dollar surcharge or something.
Nope.
I was informed that I needed to get off of the train in Wilmington, purchase a ticket, and wait for the NEXT train to come by. This made me kinda late, and extremely irritated.
I asked why I had to get off of the train.
I was told that company policy had changed in the wake of the 9/11 attacks, I had to present photo ID, buy a ticket, and get on the train, I'm not allowed on the train without a ticket.
I was already on the train. It was already moving. It was already about 30 miles out of Philadelphia. Let me make this point very clear. I WAS ALREADY ON THE TRAIN.
I said to the guy, 'I'm already on the train. It's already moving.' He said I still needed to get off the train at the next stop, buy a ticket, and wait for the next train.
I looked him square in the face and said, "Let's say I was a suicidal bomber or a terrorist, and I wanted to kill people or blow up the train. I could do it if I wanted to, because I am ALREADY ON THE TRAIN."
"We don't like to hear things like that, sir."
Sigh.
I was already on the train. It was already moving. I sure hope everyone on that train felt safe.
Emmett
How has it affected me? (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:Try being a private pilot these days (Score:1, Interesting)
On the other hand, VFR is a different matter. It's true that you have to avoid, nuclear power plants and it's also true that FAA either doesn't know or or is unable to tell you where the nuclear plants are located but if you can't spot the cooling tower of a nuclear power plant from 5 miles away, I don't want you in the same airpace with me.
I would submit that general aviation has boomed since 911. Given the choice between flying in a commercial airliner with lots of strangers or flying in a private or chartered aircraft where you know all the passengers and the pilot, which choice would you take?
My pilots licence is collecting dust (Score:4, Interesting)
I havent flown as Pilot in Command since.
I did however cross the country with my brother who is a commercial pilot, and we both got lots of flak by airport security for just being around the planes (our own plane!) by the FAA security guards. It is quite unpleasant to have to explain to every block-headed idiot in a uniform that yes, that is my plane, yes, I am a pilot yada yada yada.
In order to get a pre-flight briefing, you are required to listen to a statement about suspicious people and terrorism. Its is stupid and inane and a real grind to listen to day in and day out.
When planning our flights, we have to pay special attention to TFRs (temporary flight restrictions) or we can lose our licenses. There are several in the Seattle area which have never been lifted since Sept 11; visual flight rules cannot fly into these areas. This is a total joke since the terrorists planes were jumbo jets flying instrument rules, and those are still allowed everywhere.
Don't live in a safe world... (Score:3, Interesting)
The biggest issues pre 9/11 were the condit mess, The fact that Europe was switching into a new currency, etc.
9/11 has caused changes both old and new.
American now has the best relations it ever has had with the Russians.
America and Europe have gone back to their more traditional antagonistic viewpoint that has dominated the 400 year history of this country (with a 60 year break over the last bit).
The problems of the Islamists have now become much more widly known. Remember all those girls dying in a fire in Saudi Arabaia because the Sadui's would not let the girls go out in public un-veiled.
Groups like Lashkar Jihadi, RIF, etc are now exposed as the demons they are.
No massive repatriation has occured of Muslims.
The government has stopped somewhere between 5 and 10 terrorist attacks on US citizines over the last year.
Make no mistake. Al-Qeda has ensured that at least the next fifty years will be a throwback to the crusades.
That is what has changed in America. Compared to that, the Patriot act is nothing.
Re:Well if your at college ... (Score:4, Interesting)
Yup. And do you know what the worst thing is?
Even discussing this sort of stuff can get one branded as "unpatriotic" or "insensitive". Having worked in the media , it was clear that a HUGE chilling effect came over it, even over here in australia.
Whereas we SHOULD ask questions like "Hey , is this interference in the mid east part of the cause of S/11. Why where we funding the taliban?", we havent been asking that, because any given question can be answered with "SHH! WHERE FIGHTING TERRORISTS! BOW YOUR HEAD IN SHAME!"
And the cycle goes on... And get's nuttier too. Questioning govt anti-hacker legislation can get one branded as "un-patriotic". ditto for fcking phone tapping legislation, drug legislation, camp X-ray legislation..... Any questioning is..... "unpatriotic"
So maybe we should give up , hey guys?... Freedom of speech is dead in the water. MIA.
Those founding fathers would not be impressed with a president who claims "There should be limits to freedom". (Rant ends here)
Re:Well if your at college ... (Score:3, Interesting)
Dude. Wake up.
The CIA is one of the major players in the drug trade.
Crazy conspiracy theory? No. Just a very short memory on the part of most Americans. Recall The Iran Contra Hearings?
It was testified on TV before congress that our government sells drugs to support terrorist countries. This is a demonstrated fact.
And the Taliban, for fucks sake ?!? They instituted the death penalty for Opium cultivation , or don't you remember that either.
Also, the war on some drugs causes massive amounts of money to go to police and prisons to incarcerate Americans who choose to cultivate a freaking plant.
It's *very* profitable to have drugs illegal since the government gets paid twice.
Buying an SUV does far more to support terrorism than buying drugs does. Where do the terrorists get most of their money? Oil.
Please make at least a token effort to do your patriotic duty and inform yourself rather than spewing lies that any bit of common sense reveals for what they are.
The Puritans would be proud... (Score:2, Interesting)
Are you asking how this has affected us in our daily lives besides:
The truth is, I am not really afraid of terrorists. I would certainly have a better chance of getting struck by lightning or winning the lottery and probably a better chance of experiencing both in the same day. I am afraid of government, though.
The US government has been keeping records since the Social Security system was put in place. Everybody in the US has a primary key. IBM designed a similar system for the Nazis, and look what they did with it. What has IBM been designing for the US government since the 1930's? I am sure I do not want to know.
When I was a child, I was taught that only people under oppressive socialist/communist regimes had to worry about their government spying on them. Now it seems, everybody has to worry. The entire industrialized world is now spying on its citizens, and these governments are looking to broaden their surveillance and information sharing.
The government and the news media (the real terrorists) have drastically over estimated the threats posed by terrorists. As a result, the economy is in a slump. Jobs everywhere are scarce, and Linux has been directly affected by that ;)(ie. software projects canned by corporations, etc.)
So, are you asking besides all that how this has affected me? Hmmm... Well, I have felt threatened since that day. A close relative of mine was fingerprinted at work (which means that she is now a criminal so far as the government is concerned, see above). I have postponed (indefinitely?) travelling to the US. I suppose I could also say that I have experienced a true witch hunt, just like the ones they told me about in school.
Re:Try being a private pilot these days (Score:3, Interesting)
Try landing at one of the four airports in the DC area.
It is true that IFR was not as adversely affected, but there was still a significant impact. It was about a week before they even allowed IFR flight for part 91, as I recall. IFR flight without the option of VFR is much more restrictive, especially if you frequent uncontrolled airports and even moreso airports without approaches. Maintaining or, even worse, regaining instrument currency was difficult, too.
Even when departing IFR there was a period of time when I could not drive my car on to the ramp. I had to go to the FBO, prove to them who I was, then have them take me out to my plane in one of their vehicles. Then after landing I had to call them to reverse the process. And owner maintenance during that time? Forget it! Even as recently as two months ago when my partner and I were working on the engine late at night we got questioned by the local authorities. I'm actually glad to see that, but it is another indicator that things have really changed.
Things are mostly okay these days, but we do still live under the constant threat of increased restrictions (witness all the hoopla over the part 91 restrictions for 9/11/02) and increased security with little to no warning. Not to mention the press regularly publishing reports about how "dangerous" we are, and senators saying that GA is a gaping security risk.
if you can't spot the cooling tower of a nuclear power plant from 5 miles away, I don't want you in the same airpace with me.
Ha ha! Fortunately I can (for the most part). But we still had to pad the distance to about 10 miles, in case some official somewhere decided that the center of the circle was somewhere other than the cooling tower.
I would submit that general aviation has boomed since 911.
Parts of it have, yes. Especially chartered jet operations. But the part of the industry that deals with our small planes is still suffering greatly, IME. Ive talked with maintenance shops, paint shops, and interior shops. All report that business is still down but slowly improving.
Re:Eyeball to Eyeball with the Feds (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Try being a private pilot these days (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm not a pilot myself--far from it--but one of my most thrilling experiences in an airplane was when I rode [airline censored to protect the innocent] once; I expressed interest in "how the thing works" (kids, don't try this at home) and the pilots actually let me into the cockpit! I got to look out the front window, look at the instrument panels, chat with the pilots . . . it was great. I actually thought about taking flying lessons for a while.
Sigh.
Re:9/11...So What? (Score:2, Interesting)
They decide what moral lessons my children will learn (not anymore though, they are in private schools)they decide who I MUST commune with, they destroy property values by condeming property and building "low income housing" on it, then moving a bunch of free loaders in.
They have passed laws effectively removing the natural right to protect my home and property by declaring it a no loss situation because i have insurance. They tax me at ten times the rate of other people simply because I'm smart enough to know how to make money. they'll tax me when Im dead on money they taxed while I was alive so they can "even out' the balance between me and some moron who won't get out of bed in the morning, oh yeah, love those democrats of the farmer/labor party -
Hell, it is no ILLEGAL to pick up a rock in a National Park, and the list goes on and on forever. But if your a poor victim "of the state" we'll let you out of Jail early and then you can go and rape/murder another child somewhere.
Re:Terrorists checks are just a placebo (Score:2, Interesting)
Although I did get plastic cuttlery on one airline, even they could do a fair amount of damage.
Re:Try being a private pilot these days (Score:1, Interesting)
I'm a VFR pilot and my flying has been GREATLY affected. I got my license about 1 month before september 11th. My parents and grandparents were flying into town on sept. 29th specifically to go flying with me for their first time. However, I lived in Atlanta at the time and all VFR flights were grounded for like a month. So my family canceled the trip since we couldn't go up. Honestly, I was surprised that I still had an FBO to go back to when the ban was lifted. Alot of FBO's just folded. As expensive as aviation is, it's even more expensive when the planes aren't flying. W/O the student/rental income, alot of plane owners couldn't hack it.
Most of my flying was to Chattanooga to visit my girlfriends parents. Unfortunately, the field we flew into was right next to a Nuclear Power Plant. So even when we could fly again, we still couldn't go to the one place that we really wanted to go.
And guess which sect of aviation is the smallest threat to the general public? That's right. Light aircraft. What happened to that bonehead that flew the cessna that he 'stole' (yeah right) and flew into a building in Miami? He was the only casualty, the building had a few broken windows and the plane was dissintegrated. Who needs more proof that our planes aren't threatening? Yet, it seems every week, there's a new temporary flight restriction around an entire city, or over nukes, or over open air events, or whatever (despite the fact that it's been proven that small private planes can't do a damn thing to nukes). Why is it that VFR GA has changed SOOOOOOO much but commercial aviation has changed so little. If you're going to be paranoid, at least be paranoid about the relevant stuff.
Privacy (Score:2, Interesting)
In this small way, the terrorists have succeeded, I have less freedom and I trust my own government less.
Copyright laws (Score:2, Interesting)
And how do they do this? By claiming that money from production of pirated cd's and dvd's benefits international terrorism. That might be but I fail to see how true their claims can be that trading media files off the Internet can support terrorism...
I don't mind people selling pirated cd's to get a painful kick in the rear end, but the nice professional people seem to agree that importing audio/video media from outside Europe is also piracy, even if they're very legitimate products(region code breaking is evil etc.). And all forms of piracy, including this can support terrorism. I somehow have a hard time believing that importing a region 1 dvd to europe causes any financial gain to any terrorists. But hey, those politicians do this to protect us, let's not question them at such a difficult time.
Bottom line: whenever the lawmakers say "to fight terrorism", they can do pretty much anything, even when it has absolutely nothing to do with the matter.
Flying (UK) (Score:3, Interesting)
To do this would cost money that they weren't prepared to cough up.
So they levied a 7 UKP "security charge" on all flights, this money would then be used to beef up security and not etch into their precious profits.
Unfortunately, despite everyone coughing up this extra money people still managed to get on planes with bombs in their shoes [bbc.co.uk] and cannisters full of petrol [bbc.co.uk].
Obviously they're using our money well.
Well, I'm afraid to return to America (Score:4, Interesting)
Why? Well back when I was 20 I was in the Marines, and I was against the gulf war. I was pretty vocal about it (freedom of speech) and that got me a lot of flack from the military (that's clear). I got in a discussion with some other guys during lunch and they were telling me "we gotta kill S.H. because he violated this and this international law, yadda yadda". I told them if we were going to kill violaters of international law, we would have to start with Bush for Panama. Clearly a rhetorical argument.
Still, the Secret service was called, and I spent the night in a holding cell until my lawer came. I had to be photographed, psychoanalyzed, get a handwriting analyses, and had my background and family checked. But they had to let me go, becuase I was able to talk to a lawyer and he said "c'mon guys, it's obvious these charges are a bunch of shit". That happened a lot in those days, me getting arrested for a day and released without trial because the charges were just meaningless. They did this to hassle me and to keep me from expressing my opinion to people who might listen and change theirs. Noboddy, and I emphasize, Nobody, really thought I had threatened the presidents life. It was just a charade.
What's changed? Now they don't have to let me speak with my lawyer, and they can keep me indefinately. That has terrorized me!
Re:Well if your at college ... (Score:2, Interesting)
Give me a fucking break (Score:2, Interesting)