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Italian Police Censor "Blasphemous" Websites
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Anyone can make an omelet with eggs. The trick is to make one with none.
Anyone can make an omelet with eggs. The trick is to make one with none.
URL (Score:2, Insightful)
As it seems speaking your mind is less and less accepted. Ones again the church is at the frontier of squelzing ideas and expressions they don't like.
And more and more I get the idea the world is on a one-way road to new dark-ages..
Hmm (Score:5, Insightful)
ho hum.
Re:Another example of ignorance (Score:3, Insightful)
Have you thought that maybe the Vatican finds these sites as offensive as you find those with child porn?
On the other hand, they might want to keep quiet about paedophilia
Re:Another example of ignorance (Score:4, Insightful)
This reminds me of the times when Catholic leaders tried to stop Copernicus and other thinkers, etc.
I am not saying that the websites are in good taste or even right. But to say the sites are blasphemous and restrict the right to make up one's own mind is thinking straight from 1200's.
Re:If anyone ever sued me for Blasphemy (Score:2, Insightful)
However the fact that the Vatican is seemingly able to lean on the Italian police sufficiently to get them to take such drastic action tells us something about the power of religeon in an otherwise secular society.
The Vatican is killing thousands of Africans (Score:4, Insightful)
First, you won't get killed in America for wearing such a T-shirt either (unless you go out of your way to get out to some obscure redneck bar on the ass of the world, somewhere in the deep south or Texas, but then, you're endangering yourself if you go hang out with such yahoos regardless, where people have been hassled for wearing a FreeBSD T-shirt because "it has the devil on it." Kind of like going to South-Central LA dressed as a Klansman, and I would warrant that if you go looking for trouble deliberately like this, you'll have similiar results in just about any country in the world. Try wearing Nazi regalia into a bar in Germany, or France, or the Netherlands, or a T-shirt with a pakistani flag on it in Delhi, etc.).
And don't be so sure and self righteous in making the claim that the vatican isn't killing people. If you talk someone into jumping off a cliff, and they reluctantly take your advice, you are most certainly a party to murder (Dr. Kavorkian in contrast never talked anyone into suicide, he just lent a hand to those who'd already decided, but I digress). The Vatican has actively been discouraging suckers^H^H^H^H^H^H^H believers in Africa not to use condoms, even to prevent the spread of AIDS (with the Vatican knowing full well that without condoms the disease would spread faster and wider than otherwise), threatening those poor men and women with an eternity of torment by fire if they take that small precaution against the spread of AIDS (and those poor people believe that nonsense and take the Vatican's admonitions to heart). This influence, with the full weight and authority of the church behind it, has helped fuel an epidemic which has killed millions, and as far as I'm concerned much of that blood is on the Vatican's hands. I won't go into the racial component of this atrocity, except to say that it wouldn't surprise me if some of the old, white men in the upper echelons of the Vatican weren't secretly pleased with the results of their policies.
So the Vatican may not kill you for beshmirching the name of a legendary, likely never-having-existed woman who sired the bastard Christian demigod Jesus (though they do apparently think nothing of violating your basic right of free expression for doing so), but they'll certainly encourage you to kill yourself via unsafe sex, especially if you're an African.
Re:well... i'm american... (Score:3, Insightful)
You would hope that but it only happens to an extent. Yes they can live "free" but they sure as heck would be persecuted at every opportunity.
Also note that if you'd gone around New York on Sept 11 supporting Allah, you probably would have been locked up just to keep the peace. There are limits to free speech and just because it's in the constitution in America doesn't mean it's a sure thing there.
Whether all this is good and bad is left to your right to free choice - something notably absent in the American constitution, directly anyhow.
Re:Offensive speech (Score:5, Insightful)
1. website != billboard.
2. offensive to you == interesting to me
I find a lot of Catholic belief particularly offensive, such as their medieval attitudes towards science, their anti-contraceptive stance and their denial of female reproductive rights. But I wouldn't ever want to censor them. Voltaire always sez it best...
"I might not agree with what you say, but I'll die defending your right to say it."
Oh God Damn (Score:2, Insightful)
Religion is the scourge of the world. Whether it be Catholic, protestant, Islamic or *any* type.
I just read on CNN where two Southern Baptist preachers beat an 11 year old boy bloody for not taking his Bible (book of lies) study seriously.
I say to the fabled Hell with all religion!
Let the faith harping bigots and haters of freedom of thought and expression burn!
My religion is education and the scientific method, and it works God damnit!
Have you guys ever seen a man walk on water? No, me neither. Why don't we all get together on a boat in the deepest part of the ocean and do a little experiment and see if this BS is true. We could use Osama as the subject or perhaps a couple of Southern Baptist preachers.
Freedom of Speech (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:The Vatican is killing thousands of Africans (Score:3, Insightful)
Um
Compared to the US (Score:1, Insightful)
1) I don't like censorship but I still think letting everything go is a poor solution. If anything should be censored, it would be most advertising IMHO.
2) I find pictures desecrating the Blessed Virgin Mary as vulger as someone raping a child (again, hold the Catholic jokes please!)
3) If you want to set up a site like that, have the sense not to do it in the city that is more or less the Catholic Capital!
4) It's hard to pass judgement anyway on a story like this without details. What kinds of depictions did the sites contain? How accessable were they (could flyers be found in the city, were children accessing them, etc....).
Anyway, thought I'd put my two cents in.
Rights (Was: Offensive speech) (Score:5, Insightful)
Why? Speaking and acting are two different things. Theres an old saying "sticks and bones may break my bones but words will never hurt me" that makes the difference clear.
More importantly, free speech is considered a right because it is useful - because the advantages of people being able to say what they want is more important that the disadvantages. Ant the whole idea of rights is that they let you do things that would otherwise be illegal.
In other words, a right is a permission to do something without limits. This is obvious if you think about it - who needs a right to free speech to say things everyone agrees about? You can say things like that anyway, without the need for the protection from prosecution that a right gives.
Re:Rights (Was: Offensive speech) (Score:5, Insightful)
So libel laws shouldn't exist then? You think it's ok if I take out a full-page ad in the NYTimes saying that I believe you're a child molester?
In other words, a right is a permission to do something without limits.
Um. No it isn't. You have a right to carry a gun, but not a nuclear bomb. If you have a drivers licence then you have a right to drive on the highway, but only if you stay within the speed limit.
Cute... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:The Vatican is killing thousands of Africans (Score:1, Insightful)
Or did you forget that HUGE chunk on no sex until marriage and stay faithful after that? Yes, it won't solve everything (transmission via blood banks, mother/child transmission, etc.) but that's definately going to put a big crimp in things -- and makes the contraception issue much more reasonable.
Italian Police are hackers (Score:2, Insightful)
-asb
Re:Maybe it's just me but.... (Score:0, Insightful)
alessandro
from italy mind you. Long live www.porcamadonna.com!
Re:The Vatican is killing thousands of Africans (Score:1, Insightful)
Rest assured that the same Church that teaches the African people the moral dangers of using condoms also teaches them about the morTal danger, to themselves and to the rest of their community, of having sex outside of wedlock. The people who willingly violate the teachings of the Church are not "poor people" who don't know any better; they know why their people are dying, and they know how they can stop it, the same way it is in the US.
Want hard data to back up the Church's teaching on sex? Try http://marriage.rutgers.edu
Re:Another example of ignorance (Score:2, Insightful)
Not sure I can speak for the majority, but I certainly do not feel that my liberty has been taken away...
Making it easier to approve wiretaps, etc is perfectly acceptable IMHO given the challenges imposed by our enemies... If you disagree, then you are thankfully also provided for - A new administration could easily "undo" said changes in the future should they not be needed anymore.
You will believe in God! (Score:1, Insightful)
Any god. We don't care, just don't be an atheist.
> How about Satan? Can I be a Satanist?
No. Satan is a fallen angel, not a god. Try again.
> Can I be a Jedi?
No. No god, you see. There may be a church [jediism.org], but there isn't a god.
> How about Hinduism? They've got lots of gods.
That's fine. Just don't be going to the US. They only allow one.
Gotta play the Devil's(?) Advocate here (Score:5, Insightful)
Is there ever an expiration date on any of these sins of the father? How long must the US and Western Europe kowtow to the slave trade or Germany to National Socialism? "Gee I'm sorry that someone I never met but who has some tenuous link to me did something that you never experienced but have to give me grief for anyway."
I hate to say it, guy, but there is a point where you just have to let something go. Sure the Catholic Church is being a bit... parochial in it's outlook but then also remember that the Catholic Church endorses and teaches Evolution [newadvent.org] while many people are still throwing around the same Intelligent Design crap.
Geez. Just argue the facts instead of going of on some tangent back into history. At a certain point we become no better than those we deride.
Re:The Vatican is killing thousands of Africans (Score:2, Insightful)
Slashdot crowd... (Score:1, Insightful)
So far, most posts are along the lines of "free speech is great especially if offensive" when it comes to anti-Catholic messages.
However, the same crowd would be outraged if I said that "Bin Laden is a hero" or that "the WTC people deserved to die for being ignorant/arrogant americans." (By looking at the US media, even showing the twin towers or mentioning them seems offending to many).
The truth is that sometimes words hurt. And sometimes they hurt even more than physical abuse.
I usually enjoy reading
BTW, how do Italians feel about this?
Re:Exactly what I was wondering... (Score:3, Insightful)
I've been pushing for this for a long time now (yes, I've written my representatives). It has less to do with governments, but anyone in general.
Who can call up and ISP and ask for information on one of their customers? ANYONE. Who decides whether or not to give them the information? THE ISP.
If the government REALLY wants to push laws about the Internet, this should be one of their top priorities. They could make a great anti-spam law and at the same time protect the privacy of their citizens in the same bill!
A warrant should be required for information from an ISP, period. The same should go for accusations of abuse, copyright violation, etc. There's no excuse for terminating an account just because it was ACCUSED of violating some law, somewhere. Due process needs to take place. The current setup of various coporations shutting down websites works because, to the ISP (to avoid getting into a legal battle), you're guilty until proven innocent.
This needs to change
I disagree. (Score:3, Insightful)
Firstly, Africa is not dominated by the Catholic church. Most countries in Africa are listed between 30-60 percent Catholic, and in my experience these numbers have been inflated. Most tribes have indigenous beliefs that supercede Christian/Muslim doctrine; you've been there and you should know this.
Secondly, let's assume your premise is correct, that Catholicism is dominant. If the people of Africa wouldn't use condoms for fear of eternal damnation, why ON EARTH would they have premarital sex with multiple partners? If they have such strong religious beliefs in terms of sexual practice, who left out this latter core belief in their indoctrination? It just doesn't add up. If this logic was consistent, the Republic of Ireland would have 99% of their population infected.
Lastly, don't forget that the church pours big time and money into African AIDS relief efforts. And unlike many other religions, Catholic relief efforts do not necessarily mean proselytizing missions.
I respect your opinion that Catholics have a job ahead of them in terms of reform, but you're just making some mean, inaccurate conjectures to support an anti-religion stance.
Re:Gotta play the Devil's(?) Advocate here (Score:2, Insightful)