Germany Wants To Put Time Limits On Porn

nappster writes: "According to this article (sorry, it's in German), Germany thinks it can control the Internet, so now it's considering requiring that porn sites restrict their hours to 11pm to 6am. Exactly how they will coerce sites operating outside Germany is not explained, hence the term 'imbecility' that some have used to describe this proposal." Swim through the German with the Fish.

Here's the reason

[batobin]

Although I don't agree with their decision, I can see where they are coming from.

I was in Germany last summer, and was quite surprised as to what material showed up on my TV. After coming home from a beer garden one night, I flipped on the TV and saw raw porn right before my eyes. I changed the channel, and found more. Public TV, no joke.

The reason for this was that Germany has a kind of "everything goes" rule after 11 PM. TV stations found serving perverts at night was more profitable than merely going off-line.

I think Germany's new proposal is silly, merely because of the vast differences between TV and the Internet. On TV, there are a limited amount of channels, and setting restrictions on what they can display is legitimate. Setting those same restrictions on the much more open Internet just doesn't make sense.

As a german citizen

[Kong the Medium]

I read this piece of "NEWS" (ix.de [www.ix.de] reported this item last week [www.ix.de](Use the fish)), and promplty filled my nose with coffee.

To clarify: the main reason for this so called "Sendezeitbegrenzung" from 11 pm to 6am is the childrens protection act. ( Will somebody please think about the children :-)). It seems some of our politicians haven't greeped the fact that Germany isn't the navel of the world anymore.

In essence this new Law the "Jugendmedienschutz-Staatsvertrag (JMStV)," proposes to extend the youth protection laws allready in place for Radio and TV to the Internet. ( Think FCC for Internet for the North-Americans on /.). So this will be another try, to censor content or to restrict the access to information on the internet. But we all know, how effectfull the earlier tries have been.

I'm sure everybody knews how resourcefull 6-18 year olds can be at getting the po^H^Hinformation one wants.

It's not quite that bad

[tempfile]

I agree that the idea is a joke, but first I want to clarify something that probably got lost in all the babelfishification (I'm German). The article says that "content not suitable for minors may only be made accessible between 11pm and 6am, if there are no access-control facilities installed". First, Germany's laws about erotica are rather lax. Softcore is rated "16 years" per se, so it's not even affected. Second, the law would only affect sites that freely distribute their content without stuff like adult content.

So the bottom line is that the only sites affected would be free-access hard core porn sites. Of course, controlling all this is technically impossible, and the very arising of the idea is due to technically illiterate German politicians. Several of ideas like this were turned down over the past few years when the people who know what they're talking about basically told them that they would be either technically impossible or extremely expensive.

Re:Here's the reason

[Anonymous Coward]

What you saw is NOT porn by Germany's legal standards.
The definition is AFAIK: porn contains images of sexually aroused genitals.
That means: penis bird is porn, biology books are not, I'm not sure if goatse even counts as porn.
The films you saw count as "erotic", the means they show sexual actions but not beaver shots etc.
The main brackground for this fuss is that making porn aviable to minors (below age 18) is illegal in Germany (you might get into prison, no joke). In this sense the time retriction is rather braindead, because the porn sites won't be allowed to show porn to minors anyway (at the whole day).
As you correctly noted, the restriction comes from the TV regulations, where erotic content should be only show after 11 PM. AFAIK there isn't even a clear law for this, because some private TV channels show discussions with sex themes even in the afternoon, but they usually get bashed (only verbal) by the official youth protectors afterwards.

But before you whine all along there is something I must point out: Germany and Europe in general are much more tolerant to these things than the US, what they usually sets off is violence, not porn. I must remind you that the US is a country where "fuck" is beeped out in some US shows. These regulations on the internet for Germany are pretty retarded, but never forget that the US have their own retardness in many other respects.

- Posting AC due to NAZI bitchslapping.

Re:Here's the reason

[alhague]

The reason for this was that Germany has a kind "everything goes" rule after 11 PM.

It's really only "a kind of", because "everything" means the same as FSK18. FSK18 means the "Freiwillige Selbstkontrolle" (this is supposed to mean: "there is no such thing as censorship, only voluntary restrictions") says you must not see this unless you're 18.

FSK18-rated movies my be shown in Cinemas, on Public TV from 11pm to 6 am, on encrypted digital TV from 8pm to 6 am (FAQ de.rec.tv.misc [pardesoka.de]). They must not be made accessible to children by anybody (in public) apart from their parents (but only in private).

FSK18 is the least restricted class of ratings that is available, but it doesn't cover everything. So there remain certain films,comics,games etc. which may neither be mentioned, nor be made commercials for, nor be broadcast in any media. They may be legaly sold "under the shelf", however, which distinguishes them from still another class, which is actually prohibited material (h*rdc*r* pron, hate speech ...)

Re:*sigh*

[hwilker]

Well, checking facts before posting would have helped in this case. I do live in Germany, and used to live in the US for a while. No other qualifications, sorry.

• Internet connectivity is not "ten times more" expensive than in the US anymore. A flat-rate DSL is around EUR 50/USD 45, available at least in many urban areas from a number of companies. This is comparable to what I paid for cable internet in California. Modem/ISDN access is still metered by time for most users, though, but can be bought at around 1ct/min. AOL monthly cost is around EUR 20, if I remember correctly.
  
• The government still has a major stake in Deutsche Telekom, which in turn is majority owner of T-Online, which is the largest ISP in Germany. On the other hand, both Telekom and T-Online have their stock traded in NY, I think. Other ISPs have no connections to the government at all.
  
• "No red LEDs on the front of equipment"? This sounds like an urban legend. It's not true; you can buy home appliances like cooking ranges that blink a number of red LEDs and 7seg displays at you, looking like the bridge on the "Enterprise", and I happen to have 1) a compact stereo system, 2) a portable tape player, 3) a stationary tape player, 4) a TV (around ten years old) and 5) a camera all sporting red LEDs somewhere around their bodies.
  

Of course all this doesn't invalidate the previous posters comments about other countries' lawmaking abilities in the tech sector...

Germany is more free than America....

[t_allardyce]

The United Nations Human Freedom Index (0 = least freedom, 40 = most freedom):

Sweden 38
Denmark 38
Netherlands 37
Austria 36
Finland 36
France 35
Germany 35
Canada 34
Switzerland 34
Australia 33
United States 33
Japan 32
United Kingdom 32

Ooops.. looks like Sweden is the best country on earth.. Um the UK.. er.. must have been pulled down because of err Wales.. yeah, if it was just England then we would be right up there. HA HA HA HA the US is crappier than Canada and Germany :)

Source: http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/8Comparison.htm#Back 87 (does anyone know where the newer index is?)

A proper translation

[TACD]

Eeesh... you still use BabelFish? World Lingo [worldlingo.com] has always been a better machine-translator:

Agreement with protection of children and young people in the Internet

Federation and countries agreed after one year's negotiation on principles for the protection of children and young people in the InterNet. The measures to temporal limitations for youth-endangering contents encounter criticism. On the corner points the bosses of the state and Senatskanzleien of the countries and the boss of the Office of the Federal Chancellor, franc walter stone Meier agreed, on Thursday in Berlin. The paper is present the Financial Times Germany. Basically the countries are to be responsible for the protection of children and young people in the media. The federation reserves itself rights of codetermination. The introduction of a " positive Ratings for harmless supplies " is suggested, which rejects the economy as " vorzensur ". The paper is to become basis for a youth medium protectorate contract (JMStV). On portals such as T-Online on Erotik pages without sufficient acces protection one link, says peace man Schindler of the Mainzer authority protection of children and young people.net. It expects now a stronger printing on the contents contents of to banish references to Sex supplies in the virtual Hinterzimmer.

Not youth-free contents only in certain times

According to the paper youth-free contents might not be made common " or accessible " only between 23 o'clock and 6 o'clock, if no " pre and free check techniques " are installed. Such demands were not practicably called of experts so far. " we can check not all contents in the network ", said Arthur Waldenberger, Vorstand of the freiwilligen self-check Multimedia (FSM). That is in view of billions on the part of " imbecility ". The fact that the self-check is to be subject to a " sovereign certifying " by a " commission for the youth medium protection " is not acceptable " ".

Experts reject sections

Also InterNet experts of the Bundestag factions reject sections of the arrangement. " the youth medium protection is already monastery suited compared with other countries almost in Germany ", says the medium-political speaker of the FDP, Hans Joachim petrol. It is too simply, itself after land woman manners " bigott over the dirt " consumed by million Germans too ereifern. Erotik providers are the only on-line industry, which writes black numbers. Also the SPD wants to put " dinosaur discussions forward over transmitting time delimitations and license obligations " for the InterNet a latch plate, said Joerg Tauss, representative for new media of the SPD. The corner points are not consentable.

history repeats ...

[Anonymous Coward]

uh oh ... it happened again , a bunch of mentally deficient ape-descendants trying to decrypt german
law proposals with help of the almighty fish...
i think after 4 trys you should have learned that babel sucks hard at translating whole articles (or is it just you that get things always wrong?).
here is what you fin in the article:

1. it is an extension of youth protecting laws
   
2. this "from 11pm to 6am" stuff is just mentioned EXTREMLY shortly, its not a main point in the topic
   
3. the law would only affect ISPs
   
4. most stuff is being abolished anyways
   

--> no need to exaggerate

man... slashdot was once really mindfull and smart but it became another flame wars and misinformation site.
three points on my shitlist.

the english version

[vikool]

click here for the english version of the article: http://translate.google.com/translate_c?sourceid=n avclient&hl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ftd.de%2Fpw%2Fde %2FFTDPRAR3MUC.html [google.com]

Get a grip...

[dillon_rinker]

I am not a fan of porn &lt/understatement&gt), but folks, this is Germany. Ever been there? i have. I visited several small towns and one moderately large city. Every bookstore and newstand had a large selection of pornographic magazines. In the small town I stayed in, I noted one that featured people in sexual situations in the magazine rack at a toy and school supply store. Think about it - hardcore porn in a store for children in a small town. The newspaper featured frontal nudity most days - sometimes relevant to a story, sometimes not. MTV videos contained nudity.

In short, I think the German politicians (or whoever) that are proposing this can't be taken seriously. I think it would be roughly analagous to US senators declaring that images of people in swimsuits should be outlawed. No one would take them seriously, in the sense that no one would think that it could actually happen. It would be a rhetorical ploy with some other political goal in mind.

P.S. This is why you should travel..so you can spout inane drivel on slashdot and sound like you know what you're talking about :)

30 minutes later in Newfoundland

[AndroidCat]

There are also the places that are on 30 minute or even 15 minute boundaries. As well as a few places in the Pacific that shifted their time-zone ahead 23 hours or so to be "first into the new millenium" as a tourist gimick. (Probably ignored at the time, and long forgotten now.) Time zones are good. Railroads used to keep their own time standards for each company -- which meant making a tight connection in Chicago .. interesting.

But to get back on topic, I think the German government needs to hire a child of five to explain the Internet and the concept of "global communications" to them. They've obviously missed their connection with the Clue Train.

Misunderstanding

[bow]

There seems to be some kind of misunderstanding here.

The article mentioned talks about a proposal to require large german portals (like t-online [t-online.de] or freenet [freenet.de]) to only link to pr0n sites during the hours specified.
It is not about requiring those sites to only open during these hours.

German politicians (at least most of them) understand quite well that the internet is a international medium that can not be controlled by a single country.


Do not push the red button !