China Shuts Down 17,000 Internet Bars 599
Astin writes: "According to this article, Chinese authorities have shut down more than 17,000 Internet bars for failing to block Web sites considered subversive or pornographic. Out of the 94,000 Internet bars in China, 17,488 have been shut down and another 28,000 were ordered to install monitoring software soon. Of the 27 million Internet users in China, about 4.5 million rely on these bars. Foreign news organizations fall under the category of 'subversive'."
Wow... (Score:1, Interesting)
Looks like they are thinking before their time!
Well... their laws are their laws... (Score:1, Interesting)
As far as the internet bars go, serves them right for not installing monitoring software. They violated the law - the got shut down. I'm sure as soon as they pay their fines and install the proper software they'll be back up and running. China is not like Russian in the days of Stalin. They're actually a very progressive society - for socialists that is...
Huh. (Score:2, Interesting)
?
Be happy if you live in the US (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:They did try to revolt once (Score:3, Interesting)
However, just because one attempt was crushed, doesn't mean the next one will be. If anything good is to be extracted from that mess, it proved that a 'free' mentality pervades a large minority, or perhaps a timid majority.
The hard-liners are getting old. They will die soon. If you can't beat them punch-for-punch, let nature take care of the problem.
In the US, This Would Be "Illegal" As Well (Score:5, Interesting)
My friend and I recieved, on one occasion, a visit from the local police department, concerning that children had acceess to our machines and that our machines could be set to display objectionable content. The woman who had filed the complaint did not actually see objectionable content or had an experience where her child did, she merely voiced the possibility that it could happen.
Police seem to take this sort of stuff seriously. I'm not sure why it's any surprise that a government particularly against free speech would have a slightly more aggrevated reaction.
Re:Highlights of the above report (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:China ruled by Stupid Jackbooted Thugs. (Score:1, Interesting)
Not in an Internet bar in China.
CNN is a MouthPiece for Capitalists (Score:1, Interesting)
USofAmerica is a Plutocracy - I dont have to explain how their media re-enforces certain 'subversive' ideals... christ, imagine if the Communist news media was pushing its agenda into America... wouldnt Americans, via McCarthy inspired mass-hysteria, not be a little put-off? Would it too not be considered "subversive".
Remeber people, right and wrong is very much a matter of perspective.
During my travels in China... (Score:5, Interesting)
The funniest time was when I went with my wife to her hometown, in southern China. In a city of 100,000 people (which they call a village in China), I was the only non-Chinese person who had been there in over 2 years. People turned and stared at me wherever I went (my in-laws were joking that they should have charged admission to see me). Yet just down the street was a perfectly functional Internet cafe.
These things happen slowly, but they do happen. Don't think for a second that Chinese dissedents can't figure out how to use encrypted proxies or whatever, to get information in or out, just as easily as we western geeks do to get around stifling workplace rules...
:-)
Re:Let me get this straight... (Score:2, Interesting)
Was 9/11 horrific? Of course. But what should we do about it? Well, the Taliban is pretty much gone, so that's thing number one. But in the long run, America's security has a lot to do with the rest of the world. If we don't stand up for freedom everywhere, we risk being the only place on Earth where it's practiced (albeit imperfectly).
Now, I'm not going to say "get over it" because you've already been told that. I'm going to say "do something about it". You gripe and moan about people's priorities, but I don't hear any solutions coming from you, or even a point other than you don't like people getting on with their lives. It is possible to carry on a normal life and not forget about a horrific event. We did it for about 4 years during WWII, and we still haven't forgotten Pearl Harbor. Let people deal with things their own way, and stop trying to make people conform to your idea of mourning.
Re:They did try to revolt once (Score:5, Interesting)
A short summary of the Tianamen "incident" of 1989:
Originally it was a popular protest by students to restore the honor of CCP Secretary Hu Yaobang after his death. He was sympathetic to the growing democratic movement and was forced to resign (dishonorably) in 1987.
The request was denied and a hardline editoral was published which led to further protests.
As the movement grew larger and larger, and more and more out of control, it was moralized by the advancement of anti-corruption in the government. So they could be said to be disruptive for a morally correct reason.
The protests turned into a series of hunger strikes, and sympathetic protests in many other major cities.
The protests grew stronger and stronger, leading to the paralysis of the cities' normal operation.
During all this the CCP was split on the proper action to take. But they could tolerate such disruption only so much, and were fearful that this activity would grow so much that it woud lead to another cultural revolution.
By the time the cities had been "occupied" for more than a month, hard measures were decided upon.
The students were asked to peacefully leave, but they refused. During the month of protest their movement had become more and more radical, any moderate protest leaders had been driven out and removed from positions of power.
The government greatly wanted a calm ending to this movement but could see no other recourse but to forcefully remove the protestors, which turned quite ugly due to the radical nature of the protest by then and an overreaction by the army.
Any sort of pro-democratic spin on the movement was *only* added as part of a positive spin to win support and demonstrate that they (the students) were justified in their activity. But it was really more anarchy than democracy that the movement was representative of.
The CCP, whether through indecision, fear of bad press, or other factors, was incredibly patient with the protest. Can you really imagine any country allowing its cities to be occupied by a hostile, anti-government protest? Check out the story of the US reaction to the WTO protests in Seattle.
But don't just listen to me, go to your local library and check out some books on the subject. The excellent "Tianamen Papers" just came out last February, which documents much of the party actions that I've just described.
Re:IT is. (Score:2, Interesting)
Probably around 0%, because China means business.
By the way, when you said that "it is their country," I think you needed to be more specific. I think you meant to say "it is their regimes country."
Either way, notice the possesive "their". Remember the Cultural Revolution? Well, probably not unless you're old, but these people chose this form of government. It is to be assumed that this is what they want, or at least that this is not undesirable enough to spawn another revolution a la USSR. I say let the Chinese government govern their people however they want. They are a major power, not an island dictatorship. They seem to be doing some things right, and they haven't fucked up Hong Kong yet. "Information wnats to be free" is more accurately "We wish information was free". Unfortunately (or not), it can't happen everywhere.
Re:They did try to revolt once (Score:3, Interesting)
What's confusing me is that there were a few thousand *STUDENTS* in Tiananmen. You know, students. As in "educated, above-average people who are as different from anything you can call 'majority' as you get". As in "bah, they'll grow up and they'll come to their senses eventually". As in "we're 1.2 billion people here, we need someone with authority to rule us; that fancy democracy thing is not for us, but those 'intellectual' pricks just don't understand". Is it clear now?
And btw, the majority may be silent, but it's never timid.
Note to the Chinese (Score:3, Interesting)
Just tell it to translate the page you want to see from Chinese to English (or such), and it will ignore all the non-Chinese characters on the screen. So you'll get the website.
People have been using that to bypass filters at work for quite a while.
-k.
Difference with US reaction (Score:2, Interesting)
In Seattle, non-lethal weapons were used. Even in many third-world countries, protests are broken up with rubber bullets, not live ammunition. And if you complain that the students were radical, why not also point out that the gov't was hardline and refused to budge?
Now, I'm generally very defensive about China when Slashdotters rant about how evil it is without looking at the reality and practicality of the situation there, as it is making a lot of positive progress these days, but this is a case where the gov't could have done any number of things to avoid killing students, and it chose not to. Why? Not because it "had no choice", but because it too heavily weighs "stability of our nation" over individual lives. For that matter, even the "patience" may have been a bad thing, as a more controlled suppression of the protests earlier could have turned out a lot better.
State organs (Score:3, Interesting)
So, is it legal to say that the organs that the State extracts from executed prisoners are the best organs money can buy?
Re:why Americans so biased against anything non-US (Score:3, Interesting)
Not me, but I will firmly claim that it is much better than China.
When you criticize China, are you doing so because you've really thought about the issues, or because that's all the media has told you to do here?
I criticize the Chinese government because they are fundamentally hostile to individual freedom, believe that the citizens exist to serve them, and have no reservations about abusing their people to maintain their power. Yes, I know you can list things the US government has done that are not good, but the magnitude of the abuses is not comparable. Even the fact that you can criticize the US in this forum is a testament to the freedom that you enjoy here that you would not in China.
Now you've twisted _my_ arm (Score:4, Interesting)
You seem to be greatly afraid of "disruptions". No, don't tell me -- cultural revolution, right? Well here's a thought. The cultural revolution could not have occured on the scale it did if it wasnt for the (in)famous groupthink with which the Chinese are still struggling. By avoiding criticism, suppressing discussion, punishing "incorrect" reasoning, the Chinese strong men are supporting this tendency. They are promoting tribalism and so endangering their society.
Frequently, when speaking with ethnic Chinese, I hear such phrases as "We chinese do/say X..", instead of "I think". In a recent NYtimes report on AIDS, the author of a popular internet diary was interviewed about his recommendations for govt. AIDS policy. He felt the need to preface his remarks with "Well, I am only an individual, so I'm not qualified to judge.." My question is, who the hell _does_ judge policy, if not human beings? It is this fear of being the nail which sticks out, this sense of doing what your neighbor does, which has turned china into a giant gasoline pool, waiting for a spark. In an open society [amazon.com], individuals may go crazy, but the culture as a whole remains sound. Instead, the authorities whom you are defending have chosen to live in a closed society. They always fear the smallest flame.
In the US, we did have violent demonstrations in Seattle, they were publicized, debated, and no revolution, no mass bloodshed. In china it's forbidden to even mention Tiananmen square, secret police prevent people from assembling there on anniversary dates, professors fear for their jobs if they bring it up. The justification is fear of "disruptions", but few dare to ask why such a small spark can set fire to a whole nation.
Instead of ritually defending the CCP, or "we chinese" as a nation, those who truly care about the health of society should attempt to promote freedom of speech, of criticism, of protest. Strive towards open government and an open culture. This will provide channels to dredge the lake, and chinese human beings (as opposed to "The Chinese") will finally be able to speak for themselves without fear of commiting "incorrect" criticism.
Re:During my travels in China... (Score:3, Interesting)
One word: Automobile. Once all the nasty point source pollution problems are cleaned up or moved to where you, as a foriegner, cant see them, I would say most cities in china are much cleaner in the US, simply because they dont have alot of automobiles.Give the people of Shanghai 8 million cars, especially unregulated ones, and your pollution problems are back. Similarly, Eliminate all the cars from LA, and the air will be crystal clear year round. The sad part is, the more westernized china becomes, the more cars there will be, and the more and more polluted cities like Shanghai will become.