Anti-Terrorism Law Passed 777
Saratoga C++ writes: "Today (Oct 25) was the day that the US Senate voted on if to pass H.R. 3162, the anti-terrorism law. I have the roll call for today from the Senate. The only person with a "Nay" vote was Russ Feingold (D-WI). Thanks Russ. The final turn out was Yes: 98, No: 1, No Vote: 1."
Did the time limit make it in? (Score:3, Interesting)
I believe this final version passed with a (four-year?) expiration date, but I'm not sure I got that right.
Does anybody have a definitive answer on this? (And no, "I heard X and Y" does not count. I'm talking about a link to and quote from a factually reputable news source.) If there is a time limit, what are the parameters?
Question... (Score:2, Interesting)
To all of you who think that this bill "trashes civil rights", as Michael "Slashbot" Simms believes.
Exactly how is your freedom and/or liberty curtailed by this bill? Exactly what are you unable to do now that you were able to do before?
Clearly, if civil rights have been "trashed", there must be endless examples. And by the way, "potential" abuses don't count. I want REAL examples.
Commentary (Score:3, Interesting)
Anyway, here's some commentary that I included with version I wrote:
American Civil Liberties Union [aclu.org]
Center for Democracy and Technology [cdt.org]
Yahoo! News [yahoo.com]
Re:Question... (Score:2, Interesting)
America has a very strong history of protecting its civil rights, even in instances where they have been [apparantly] in jeopardy. It's extremely vogue here on Slashdot to make all manner of reference to the Nazi regime and other recent 20th-century democracies that have slipped into fascism or autocracy (BTW, off topic, the term fascism is horribly misused on this site).
The missing piece in the argument is that the American democratic republic is radically different in several key areas from other democracies and republics, especially European ones. Americans historically have a very high sense of self-preservation. The events of September 11th have massively re-inforced this notion. That self-preservation extends to issues of civil rights.
Americans have adamantly defended their basic liberties throughout history. There is not a sleeper majority of the American public that is apathetic to this issue. To be sure, the majority is less informed than Slashdot viewers (thanks to a handful of schizophrenic editors *coughing*timothy*coughing*), but that doesn't dissolve into the slippery slope wherein it is imagined that tomorrow, Americans wake up to telescreens on their walls.
What am I getting at? This bill, in its basic letter form, is dangerous, but that doesn't mean that the government has been given free reign to abuse civil liberties. If abuses start, the public will speak out, and this bill will be quickly curbed.
Stop worrying. You haven't been put in shackles.
Now go ahead and mod me down for disagreeing, per the Slashdot norm.
Re:Question... (Score:2, Interesting)
http://gi.grolier.com/wwii/wwii_hitler.html
Hitler actually lost the general election to the incumbent Paul von Hindenburg. He was subsequently _appointed_ chancellor by von Hindenburg, who thought that he could use Hitler to his own advantage, and form a coalition government. Unfortunately for everyone, he was mistaken.
A better example perhaps of dictator being voted into power would be Mussolini in Italy. There he was voted into office like you said, and slowly took away people's rights one by one....
http://gi.grolier.com/wwii/wwii_mussolini.html
Re:Question... (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm taking my best shot at answering in the same spirit the question was asked- for inspiring debate.
Civil rights are as much about what you can do, as what you cannot.
Thanks to this legislation, you cannot be certain that your home, and any object in it has not been disturbed by law enforcement officials in your absence. Law Enforcement doesn't have to notify you before invading your home and going fishing through your personal property. (This is another chip off of the 4th amendment- before this legislation there'd have been a warrant that would have to be served to me.)
Thanks to this legislation, if you have a guest over to your house, and he uses your telephone, you will never know if your phone has been tapped.
(Please don't tell me about what kind of company I keep- I let people who've had auto accidents outside my house use my telephone.)
Thanks to this legislation, I have no security in my person, house, papers, and effects against search and seizures conducted without a warrant issued under probable cause. I don't believe that law enforcement can determine probable cause, that's for a judge, and this legislation removes the need for a judge to make this determination.
Traditionally, the bar for what's an unreasonable search was easy to understand- with few exceptions, almost any search conducted without a warrant was unreasonable. This bar has now been removed. Warrants had to specify exactly what was to be searched, and law enforcement could not just go fishing and hope to find evidence of a crime, as they now can.
While I don't engage in any behavior I know to be illegal, ignorance of the law is no excuse in court, and without my knowing from notice of a warrant that I'm under suspicion, I cannot live freely with the knowledge that, at any time, I may be under investigation, or hauled in for a crime I did not commit, or an action I did not know was a crime.
Re:Russ Feingold is awesome (Score:2, Interesting)
On a little historical note...he's been doing stuff like this since he was in high school at Janesville Craig in the late 60's - early 70's. My dad was in his class and was his campaign manager for the student body. When he told me this way back when, I didn't believe him so I dug up his yearbook from '72, and sure enough...there he was..picture, signatures and all. Truly made him a hometown hero in my book and he's done nothing but solidify that image ever since. Honestly, I would not be suprised one bit to see him running or nomitated for president in one of the next few elections.
Approval Process Sucks (Score:2, Interesting)
I guess it was far more important to discuss MSN, MP3s, ATI and the like rather than THE LOSS OF CIVIL LIBERTIES AND UNIVERSAL MONITORING OF NETWORK TRAFFIC. Good Job Slashdot! Toys are much more important than life, right?
Re:What's good for the goose... (Score:0, Interesting)