Ellison Wants National ID Card, Powered By Oracle 666
cplater writes: "This article discusses Larry Ellison's call for a U.S. national ID card, and his offer to provide the software for such an initiative." There's an advertising slogan to be proud of: 'Oracle, the Big Database behind Big Brother'. Or 'Oracle, the All-Seeing Eye'. Or 'If it's good enough for Orwell, it's good enough for your company'. Update: 09/23 23:22 GMT by M : Richard Jones writes "The British Home Secretary is considering compulsory identity cards, despite the fact that such
cards would not have made any difference in the recent
terrorist attacks on New York and Washington. The British
have generally opposed their reintroduction since the wartime
system of identity cards was abolished in 1952."
National ID card (Score:2, Insightful)
The WTC Law (Score:2, Insightful)
I'm in favor of this idea (Score:4, Insightful)
One unique ID that can log me into my systems, allow people to contact me, allow me to make purchases and make the coffee machine brew exactly the way I like it? Sign me up!
This is no different than what we have now with Social Security Number, Driver's License, MasterCard, IP Address. The difference is that all these numbers aren't interchangable.
Security issues? Use PINs or biometrics. Big Brother issues? Allow users to control their database entried, or opt-out entirely.
I look forward to one card wallets.
- JoeShmoe
Re:SSN (Score:4, Insightful)
Your employer needing it is understood. He has to have your SSN to file forms and payments for you with the IRS. That was part of the original purpose, correct?
Now for the other people. They need some way of differentiating between you and anyone else. They need a Unique Identifier of some sort. How else are they supposed to make a decision on whether or not to extend credit to you? Getting a phone or other utility turned on is a type of credit.
Is it wrong for them to want to be able to go back and look at your history of paying other creditors? Getting a loan is not a right, it is earned by showing that you have fullfilled your obligations in the past and therefore, probably will this time.
If we didn't have some sort of unique identifier assigned to each of us, how would you propose they do this? "Ah, you're a white guy living in a good neighborhood. Here's the $250,000 you needed." If you can't profile people by their past actions, you have to find some other attribute to judge them by.
Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't think this would be such a bad idea. As Ellison said in the article, all we would be giving up is the "illusion" that we can't be tracked.
Re:of course! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:National ID is Good, IF DONE PROPERLY... (Score:2, Insightful)
that's the problem. The god damn SSN isn't used properly (my fucking video store demanded I give them my SSN or I could walk out the door w/o a membership -- they are the only store in town w/a decent DVD selection (3/6.00 ain't fucking bad))
We already know that this will be abused and it won't work. Let's not beat around the bush here. It is going to go the way of everything else. HELL.
I don't want to have a single unique identifier. My CC only has my purchases from my grocery store (if they want to know how many fucking bottles of Coke I drink so be it) but if they start tracking how many times I buy beer at the local drive-thru I am going to get pissed off.
That's exactly what is going to happen. That damn ID UPC is going to be on my neck and seen from satellites up above.
No thanks.
And this is going to make us more secure...how? (Score:4, Insightful)
We already have many forms of identification. ID's which can easily be counterfited. How many fake driver's licenses, Passports, and credit cards are there in circulation now? How in your wildest dreams do you think you will be able to prevent counterfitting your new "Big brother" ID?
Everyone's vitals presumably will be stored in a giant database. What happens when the database is hacked and Abdul's fingerprints are matched with his newly counterfitted ID? That's right, he breezes right through security and we're right back to square one again! A cool hack would be to replace Dubya's prints with ohhh say...Ted Kazinski's...
Besides, in any case you dumb shit, all the terrorists have to do is keep their noses clean! That's right, come to the country and apply for one of these silly ID's..."got any priors?...No?...here you are Mr Atta!" Make their first offense the big one and what good will the silly ID do? Absolutely Jack Shit! What about foreign nationals? Are they going to be issued temporary cards for the duration of their stay? Based on what? What they disclose at the point of entry? This is a non-starter.
You really want to do your bit to help prevent terrorism Larry? Why don't you take a couple of your billions and endow a few schools in third-world countries? Maybe through education the worlds desperate will learn how to escape from their desperate situations and they will be less likely to commit desperate acts.
Bah! (Score:5, Insightful)
It's complacency that burned us once and as much as we want to go back to our complacent little sheep lifestyles, that is no longer an option! These gimmicks are trying to restore a happy illusion that we're safe again and can go back to our complacent little lives, but even if they succeed for a few years, they will ultimately guarantee another tragedy like this down the road, when someone figures out how to defeat the measures.
National IDs are unconstitutional. (Score:2, Insightful)
If you're looking for more information, you can just go to aclu.org and search for "national id" you'll find plenty of information about why they are a very bad idea....
Re:National ID is Good, IF DONE PROPERLY... (Score:4, Insightful)
If it includes too much information then we worry that this information can be too easily exploited to harm people. If it includes too little, advertisers will still require some other monitoring system when you make purchases etc. Of course you could make other systems illegal but that has lots of other problems.
Putting in a bunch of personal controls is useful for you, but what about your grandma or neighbor or cousin? We still have to figure out what an appropriate level of privacy is in general, cause most people won't deviate much from what they are told they ought to have. Perhaps this means it should be totally opt-in. Or, maybe the National ID should only be tied to activities that legitimately require ID now, such as driving, bank records, military, credit cards, etc.
Given the complexity of modern life and the amount of goods and services we use for with others are responsible, where should the limits on privacy be? And what is the level of acceptable intrusion, if any?
Re:SSN (Score:2, Insightful)
Simple. You could voluntarily provide references, as you do when you apply for a job, for instance. If you don't have such references, you could put up some collateral or have someone with assets guarantee your loan. It happens all the time.
And comparing an SSN to the kind of national ID card that is proposed is not valid. We are not required to show our SSN card to a police officer who stops us walking down the street. We don't show our SSN when we buy a loaf of bread. Some states require us to show a social security card to get a drivers license, and this bothers me a lot, but having to show a card on demand any time would greatly change the balance of power between police and citizens, and would probably be a violation of the fourth amendment.
Re:I'm in favor of this idea (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Reread 1984 first. (Score:2, Insightful)
The whole system operates on smoke and mirrors, as most Americans simply aren't aware of what's going on.
I am recontextualising that statement to make comment.
Not to sound like some Anti-NWO freak here, but really really people need to take a look at what is going on here.
Dont want to open a can of worms, but I was out of the country during the the "election", and for all intents and purposes, people the world over viewed it as a Coup. Pure and simple. Its not what CNN said. Its what the person in the street and the international media were saying. Like you average European.
Next, support for the administration was pathetic, his and crews numbers were so low, here and abroad.. He had no support.. And rightly so, look at the dismantling of progressive efforts, and a return to 50's style cold war ethics and games.
So when this horrible tragedy happened on the 11th, as shocking as it is, isnt it amazing that those approval numbers went up to 90%, the world over, and all discourse about what a numbskull we have in office has been obliterated for fear of being called "anti american' and the same old cold war era crap. Even people who critique the Bush policies for a living are hanging up their hats "In this time of need".
Now, with the magic approval ratings so high, and critical thinking at such a low, is it not kind of odd that a plethora of REALLY scary ideas are being drawn up and passed through the senate and congress right now as we speak with absolutely no discussion or representation of what it is that the people here truly want? Maybe we should wait until the population is thinking more clearly?
Also, how bout all this money being handed out, another 40 billion for emergency military aid, seen as a down payment by congress on a larger sum yet to be announced. Add that on top of the other 40 billion added to the 300 or so billion the defense budget was already at. The Cheifs of Staff were pissed off earlier this year that Bush could not round up more budget for the boyz. And now he was just handed a "blank" check.
And they have given partial OK for the missle sheild. How the hell did that happen. Search the news over the last week, they slipped that one by us while we were awating news of some city getting Anthrax in our drinking water.
So yeah, maybe a ID card is no big woop. But as part of a larger package of privacy and security measures that are becoming instantly enacted on the American people. You gotta wonder who this war is really being fought against. At this point it seems it is only us.
Re:SSN (Score:2, Insightful)
The totally scary profiteering thing from this is the airline industry.
They just got $15 billion from the federal government to prevent bankruptcies, turmoil etc. and at the same time they have fired over 100,000 people. Isn't this what the money is supposed to prevent?!?
Throwing money at the problem is necessary at a time like this, but do it with some sense. Have a firing freeze for a change. If routes are reduced, then maybe airline employees will work fewer hours,
which might give them time to spend the paychecks they are still getting thus helping the economy.
So 100,000 people at say $50,000 a year average (a guess, but fairly informed my dad is a pilot and my step mom is a flight attendant) is $5 billion a year they're saving as a result of these layoffs.
This plus $15 billion from the government *and* jack up the unemployment rate with a lot of people who have limited skills in any other industry?!?
My prediction is that the airlines will have record profits given this income and the lowered costs and the execs will all have huge bonuses.
I am not saying that the industry doesn't need some help right now. I have no problem at all with the government paying to replace the planes that were lost in this tragedy. I also have no problem with an aid package for the industry, but have a little sense and do it in a way that will help the economy rather than do more damage to it in multiple ways.
Require no layoffs without cause or no money.
A vision of our future.. (Score:2, Insightful)
Nifty Pic [akamai.net]
That pic had the caption:
'Police held two men at gun point in New Jersey after a bus driver reported they spoke, "little English," and seemed "suspicious."'
The read this quote from MSNBC [msnbc.com]
DAILY LIFE IS CHANGING
Daily life in America is likely to change as a result of the Sept. 11 attacks -- with the newly created Office of Homeland Security likely to play a role in those changes, current and former government officials said.
"I think in order to defend the homeland, we're going to need more information about virtually every citizen. So we're going to have more databanks and databases that have information about us,"
INCREASED SURVEILLANCE
Even as Americans returned to their normal pursuits, surveillance was increased. For example, there were car inspections at the Mets-Braves baseball game at Shea Stadium Friday night -- the first major outdoor sporting event in the New York area since the attacks.
Here is a copy of the Anti-Terrorism Act of 2001 [eff.org] second draft.
As well as the "Mobilization Against Terrorism Act". [cryptome.org]
All I can say is, be careful what you wish for and what saying "Oh whats a little ID card."
It won't stop there.
Privacy freaks (Score:3, Insightful)
Having a national id card that allows for one to say you're you through a picture on a card and fingerprints is not a bad thing at all. At least it can make everyone certain you're who you pretend to be.
I've been living with an ID card for my whole life now (in belgium), there are no fingerprints on it, but there are my pictures, address, etc... and I don't have any problem with that. I have to show my ID card only to governement people, I can show it to anyone though, but am not legally bound to do so. tons of people have already seen my id card, address etc, do you think I get a pizza van in accross the street with 15 cops xraying my house? There are few things I need to use my ID card for: dealing with the administration, banking, crossing boundaries of Europe, when a cop wants to verify that I have everything all right with my car (taxes paid, car passed the yearly security test, ...) among others. What's bad with that? Do you think they enter everything I do in a database?
To go on with the privacy stuff, if you guys (and ladies) don't trust your goverment with your personal information then ELECT PEOPLE YOU TRUST. If you're tired of corrupted congressman/president/parties then vote for someone else!.
I don't see a single reason you'd want to hide things from your government, if you're a lawful citizen, then the cops/fbi/cia/nsa/whatever have absolutely no reason to get [extra] data about you, right? If that's not the case, then it's a sign you don't have the right people in the key positions in your governement.
I'm not saying there's no corrupted people in my country government, far from that, but if they decided to go for an electronic version of my ID card with more data on it that allows for tracking things I do with that card, then I say "no problem, go ahead", if it can simplify things when dealing with day-to-day matters, then they get a high five from me.
I think that those who want to hide things are those who should not be allowed to hide them. Yuo want to hide you have an affair with your secretary, fine with me, the governement is not interested in that anyway. You want to hide you're growing marijuana in your garden then you have a problem... If you want to be allowed to smoke pot, then make it lawful to do so instead of hide it. it seems like you're doing thinks backward. Make things legal instead of hiding the fact you're doing these things. If the people you have elected don't want to vote these laws, then vote for other people.
Big companies give money to politicians to get the laws they want, that's called 'corruption' and is illegal. Corruption has always been there but it seems to me that USA got it to a point where people have absolutely no control over how things work now. Politicians will vote laws that favour big companies anyway, because having flourishing businesses in your country is good for the people, but with corruption/bribes/lobbies as they are, politicians don't vote these laws for the people but for THEM. Solution: make parties open their finance books, enforce anti-corruption laws, ban lobbying, make politicians have to say what they own when they enter a function and have they declare what they own when the leave that function and create something to control that. Sue the corrupted guys, ....
So next time you have to vote again, vote for people you trust, I think it's high time the USA have a decent uncorrupted government and remember also that whatever government is in place in your country also has an influence on my country, whether I want it or not.