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Aussie ISP Scans Downloads For Copyright Violation 423

Steve Nakhla writes: "According to this article, Excite@Home has begun snooping users' downloads in order to find copyrighted or pirated material. Violators have their access cut off. As an Excite@home user, this alarms me. What exactly is their definition of copyrighted? Doesn't the New York Times copyright their online articles? Can I not view them any more for fear of violating Excite's policies?"
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Aussie ISP Scans Downloads For Copyright Violation

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  • by Alcimedes ( 398213 ) on Thursday August 23, 2001 @03:38PM (#2209931)
    i have a quick question. would something like pgp work to stop this snooping garbage? just have the data encrypted when you send it to people, and then no one can snoop, right?



    it would be a bit of a pain, but nothing too bad. ftp servers would just contain the key when you log in, and irc people could just have the key displayed every min. or so.



    nosy bastards oughtta leave me and my data alone!

  • This scares me (Score:2, Interesting)

    by jimmcq ( 88033 ) on Thursday August 23, 2001 @03:45PM (#2209994) Journal

    I've never been one to feel paranoid, but this kind of stuff creeps me out!

    They can monitor my computer use at work... and now they are monitoring my computer use when I'm at home.

    This just sounds like another case of innocent until proven guilty... Not even the government can monitor this kind of stuff without the proper warrent, but this corporation can. When exactly did the big corporations get more powerful than the government??!?

    What ever happened to the right to privacy? How have we let things get to this point?
  • by Tin Weasil ( 246885 ) on Thursday August 23, 2001 @03:50PM (#2210047) Homepage Journal
    If they were really penalizing people for downloading all copyrighted materials, then you would get yanked for downloading GPL'd software, since it is, in fact, copyrighted.

    Hey! Take a look at the bottom right corner of your page when you load slashdot! There is an OSDN copyright!

    Really, I don't think any aussies who is doing anything legitimate (reading the NYTimes for example) has anything to worry about here.

    I support any ISP for yanking connectivity of anyone for any reason. It's the ISPs right. Maybe they don't like you because you don't take baths (sorry RMS).

    What is disturbing is that the ISP in question is actively monitoring it's user's online transactions and actions. That, in my OP is a violation of privacy.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 23, 2001 @03:50PM (#2210050)
    Excite@home could give a rat's ass about "copyright violations." What they really want is a way to get rid of people who use a lot of bandwidth, and an easy way to do it is to scrutinize their high-bandwidth-volume customers and find an excuse to terminate their service. Copyright infringement is a convenient excuse.

    This allows them to save money by not expanding their infrastructure.

  • by Neon Spiral Injector ( 21234 ) on Thursday August 23, 2001 @04:10PM (#2210217)
    I work for (run) a small town ISP. We sometimes fear the large national ISPs with their advertising budgets. But things like this just make me feel good.

    We care about our customers. We fought to get each one, and do our best to keep them. I remember what it was like to be a subscriber. So, I run things now as I would have liked them to be run when I was on the other side.

    We log when you log on and when you log off and what IP you were assigned. That is about it. I don't care what you do out on the net. But if you cause trouble and someone complains to us, then we take action.

    Of course broad band is a little different, you can cause a lot of trouble quicker than with dialup. We are just now deploying broad band fixed wireless. I would like to keep running things the way I do now. I hope my faith in our customers isn't misplaced.
  • by stevew ( 4845 ) on Thursday August 23, 2001 @04:20PM (#2210300) Journal
    First off - we're talking about Australia - they have a different take on things down there, and what may be legal here might not be there (and vice-versa.)

    If I recall correctly, the 1996 Telecommunications Act made ISP's the equivalent of common-carriers, and they are exempt from worrying about content issues. The DMCA modified that to the extent that you can be tried and convicted by the ISP by them merely receiving a letter claiming you've done something wrong. The DMCA requires that they take action upon receipt of a letter. So - the ISP can only be held liable if they don't take action.

    My solution is to send all the lawyers in the land to this little island off the coast of Africa where there are no scheduled boats or planes. This in and of it self should take care of congress since it's mostly lawyers. Think of what a wonderful world it could be! ;-)
  • Re:woah, WOAH!! (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Angst Badger ( 8636 ) on Thursday August 23, 2001 @05:08PM (#2210617)
    Isn't this a MAJOR invasion of privacy? I can't remember exactly, but I seem to remember that ISPs were told they were NOT allowed to do that to modem users, as it violates several privacy issues. You're required to get a warrant prior to initiating any snooping whatsoever.

    Yes, it's an invasion of privacy, but the question is whether it is an illegal invasion of privacy. If it was a government agency doing it, then yes, they'd need a warrant. For a private company to monitor what its customers are doing with company equipment is another matter altogether, and in many cases may be perfectly legal.

    In some states, for example, you can legally record (your own) telephone calls without informing the party at the other end. Tennessee is one of those states. Maryland -- as Linda Tripp learned to her dismay -- is not.

    Please bear in mind that there are extraordinary restraints on the actions of government agencies because they have extraordinary powers. Private citizens and private companies are under much lesser restraints. Moreover, analogies between telcos and ISPs (or between the telco branch of Big Fnarking Company and its ISP branch) are flawed because there are very specific laws governing common carriers, which telcos are, and few laws governing ISPs which are not, I repeat not, common carriers.

    I'm not saying this is the way it should be, but in the absence of laws to the contrary, that's just how it is. Considering that ISPs can and have been held responsible for the actions of their customers in some instances, management may feel like they have to cover their butts by snooping. Of course, they may also just be tired of losing money on MP3-and-warez-sucking bandwidth hogs.

  • by nfras ( 313241 ) on Thursday August 23, 2001 @07:39PM (#2211315)
    Well, not only is Excite@Home in trouble, but Optus, the Australian partner is due to be taken over by Singtel, which is 70% owned by the Singapore government. Amid the recent allegations of spying on Australia by Singapore, it looks like the guys at Optus@Home are getting some practice in for when Singtel take over.
    Oh yeah, and the Australian Defence Department uses Optus for satellite communications. So that means that we are allowing our second largest Telco, which has a record of snooping on its users, which also provides telecommunications services to the military and ASIO (Intelligence), to be taken over by a foreign government which has a track history of spying on us! Christ, I thought the western world had a dim enough view of Australian security without this shit.
  • by TekPolitik ( 147802 ) on Thursday August 23, 2001 @07:57PM (#2211382) Journal
    At first it looks like it may be an illegal wiretap. This is covered by the Telecommunications (Interception) Act 1989 (Cth) [austlii.edu.au]. The difficulty lies in the interpretation of "Interception" in section 6 [austlii.edu.au] of that Act


    Don't worry too much about subsection 2, none of those provisions apply even though it looks like they might. Subsection 1 is the problem, because it defines interception as "listening to or recording". Since the software downloads are not audio content, they're not "listening to" it, and it seems unlikely they're recording it. There's no reason to expect a court to decide that a checksum, CRC or other hash would constitute "recording", since "recording" implies substantially duplicating the content rather than merely identifying the content probabilistically.

    It is unlikely that a court would hold that anything other than the reproduction of the content itself would constitute "recording".


    IANALY,TINLA

  • by Phrogman ( 80473 ) on Friday August 24, 2001 @12:45AM (#2212171)

    If they intercept the images that a person downloads from a pay service - or the text articles or whathaveyou, does that mean they are illegally accessing that service?

    I mean if I pay good money to access a porn^H^H^H^H^H pay news service and receive the benefit of that service, how can they legallly be allowed to (presumably) gain the same benefit from that service without paying for it?

    Why, that ought to be illegal...

We are each entitled to our own opinion, but no one is entitled to his own facts. -- Patrick Moynihan

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