Sklyarov Released On $50,000 Bail 534
Mike Schiraldi was the first to write about Dmitry Sklyarov's release from jail, even before it happened: "According to this live report from the courtroom, Dmitri will probably be out of jail real soon now. Of course, he still won't be allowed to leave Northern California, but it's a start ..." Soon after, inaneboy pointed out this Reuters story on yahoo which says that Sklyarov has been released, on 50,000 dollars bail, raised by his employer, ElcomSoft.
phalse phace wrote to say that the EFF has just posted an announcement as well as some background.
Re:Leave Law Enforcement out of it. (Score:3, Insightful)
your attitude seems to me that the penalty for vandalism and assault ought to be death. Not only death but death without a jury, a trial, a lawyer, a sentence. No chance at appeals or the opportunity to call witnesses or defend yourself. In your eyes if a person commits vandalism then he or she ought to be summarily executed by any police officer who happens to be at the scene.
Unfortunately there are plenty of people like you in this world and that's why brutal opression exists all over the planet.
Re:Logical Flaw in Prosecution (Score:3, Insightful)
Which is something which US corporate interests would not want to happen...
Sklyarov's release (Score:1, Insightful)
In addition to the $50,000 raised by ElcomSoft for his release, will they be helping with his legal defense as well?
I'm sure that the EFF and hopefully even the ACLU will pitch in to his ongoing legal defense also... what other groups could get involved as well? And do they even know enough to get involved?
Adobe (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:The feds must be really ptroud... (Score:4, Insightful)
Amazing victory (Score:2, Insightful)
(Usual disclaimers: IANAL etc.)
He is not free, just has a much bigger cell... (Score:4, Insightful)
Ummm, he is most certainly not free. He is just out on bond awaiting trial. He has no passport, and no freedom of movement (he can't leave California, and he most certainly can't go home to Russia).
Yes, this is an improvement of his general situation, but this is far from over. He still faces the possibility of hundreds of thousands of dollars in fines and years in prison.
For now, he just has a much bigger jail cell.
Re:The feds must be really ptroud... (Score:2, Insightful)
The problem with the Reuters story... (Score:5, Insightful)
Overall, I think it's a reasonable story, and not slanted. But the average reader (side-note: how much do we think this will be picked up by the mass-circulation papers?) will end up thinking that this is a symptom of the decline of the Russian ex-empire in that it's legal to pirate CDs there. The reality, of course, is the reverse: it's legal to make a fair-use backup for your own purposes, as opposed to out-and-out piracy, and that is what Sklyarov's software addresses.
Re:A couple SF Chronicle articles (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:The feds must be really ptroud... (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Smuggle Him Out Before They Lock Him up Again (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:The feds must be really ptroud... (Score:2, Insightful)
Yeah, I'm looking in your direction, FBI... Killed any kids lately?
If he knows whats good for him... (Score:3, Insightful)
What gets me is (Score:5, Insightful)
The last time I checked, even though the west won ther cold war US law was NOT the Law of the Land in Russia.
There is the legal concept of "Fighting Words". This covers things like inciting to riot, or other illegal acts. The Supreme Court has issued many rulings on this. These are the rulings that allow Nazis to stroll through a jewish neighborhood, while under police protection. This area of law is part of free speech rights, and basically knocks down the idea that you can be arrested for incitement to an illegal act. IANAL. A search for the phrase will turn up many referances.
People can buy instruments of violence in the US. But tread on someone's imagined profits, and watch out. Even if you are just speaking, or selling.
There could be a tremendous constitutional legal issue tied up with this. I hope the DCMA gets nailed.
Great! (Score:2, Insightful)
Just hope they junk the DMCA and stop imprisoning people for a little dope while Wall Street jerks off over the prospect of hooking us all cheap, generic happy pills (Prozac).
Rogue Bolo
Re:The feds must be really ptroud... (Score:1, Insightful)
The difference here is huge, the FBI is not breaking any laws by arresting him. Sklyarov knew what he did was illegal in the US, so what does he do? Comes to a convention there. I high profile hacker convention no less. Although i'm not comparing the crimes outright, when was the last time you have seen a Columbia drug lord attend a pharmacutical convention in the US?
Its pretty clear that it is his own ego that in the end was his undoing. Kind of like returning to the scene of the crime. To be honest tho, this whole thing is pretty silly. Who the hell really cares about eBooks anyway? And as has been stated, it doesnt apparently seem that you needed to be a genious worth the worlds admiration simply because he hacked something so trivially simple.
Unfortunately for him, his 15 minutes of hacker fame has caught up to him and bit him in the ass.
I may not like the law, you may not like it, but you can't just throw the whole system out the window on a case by case basis.
Re: Getting out of Jail... (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Very indicative of our society today... (Score:5, Insightful)
IMHO, doing the right thing would be dropping the charges and letting him go home.
Re:What for? (Score:2, Insightful)
Tim
Re:The feds must be really ptroud... (Score:1, Insightful)
But to me there is a big practical difference between the former example -- which involved the unambiguous butchering of human beings -- and the latter, which involves issues that are arcane and technical for the typical "Joe on the street" (even though it may seem much more clear and obvious to /. readers and tech-savvy people in general). Unless the Feds did due diligence in looking very carefully at the crypto and interoperability exemptions in the
DMCA [loc.gov], sections 1201(c)(1) and 1201(c)(4), then they were basically (and, IMHO, not unreasonably), following the law as written. Since this case is not nearly so obvious to a lay person as murder would be, and since there is zero case law on the books for the DMCA, it's not that unreasonable for them to take the "seems like the right thing to do; if not, the court will tell us" approach. Unfortunately this means that an (again, IMHO) innocent person gets thrown into a federal detention center for several weeks.
I'm not saying it's right -- just understandable.
Remember: it takes a solid, clear-headed understanding of US constitutional history and philosophy; a good knowledge of the pertinent recent history in the technological realm (Betamax, PC-BIOS, DAT, Diamond Rio, DeCSS, and now this); and a decent technical understanding of how this affects crypto folks, researchers, everyday users, and the net in general; to truly appreciate the implications of this case in its full context.
I've been trying to educate my parents (who immigrated to the US from Soviet Russia in 1977) about this case, and even for them it has not been an easy sell. It makes for an interesting barometer, though, and I suggest anyone trying to educate their less-tech-literate friends about this keep that idea in mind.
-HJR
How? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:How? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:A couple SF Chronicle articles (Score:2, Insightful)
That book is over 150 years old (isn't it?). It should be public domain and completely legal to trade electronic copies of online. Right?
This, I think, is perhaps one of the most frightening signs of the difficult times we have ahead of us: common people don't expect that they should have the right to share "copyrighted" information.
Dima's not on the streets yet... (Score:2, Insightful)
Background: When I was a dumb college kid many years ago, I flaked out on several speeding tickets and such, and wound up with several warrants for Failure to Appear. The total dollar amount was $1400, and as a minimum wage cashier for a pet shop there was no way in hell I could pay it. So, on Sunday evening of Spring Break week, I turned myself in to the local PD. 2 court appearances later (different jurisdictions) both judges declared time served, making me a free man in theory. Reality was it took a day and a half from the judge declaring me free to me walking out of LA County Jail a free man. Dima is a bit higher profile than I am, but it's still going to take some time.
Even when he hits the streets, he is still imprisoned, just in a 3000 mile wide cell. He is not a free man until he hits international airspace on a jet bound for Moscow. He is still separated from his family, his job, and his school, and facing 5 years imprisonment in a foreign country.
Ergo, we must continue to turn up the heat. This is yet another small victory, like Adobe, but the war is far from over. On a positive note, press coverage is picking up, and more publicity is a very good thing. Let's not lose our momentum here folks, onward... Free Dima!
Re:Very indicative of our society today... (Score:3, Insightful)
Dmitry didn't plan on being a martyr for an anti-DMCA crusade. Yes, the DMCA is a bad law. Yes, it would be good to challenge it.
But at this point, this has nothing in my mind to do with the DMCA. It was to do with a foreigner, the "breadwinner" of his family, who was detained wrongly in this nation.
Give him back to his family. Worry about the DMCA after you worry about humanity. Intellectual property will wait.
Remember your Senator (Score:1, Insightful)
Remember your Senator next election. These, to my knowledge, are the Senators who voted for the DMCA. Write letter, make phone calls, but above all else don't forget to VOTE THE BASTARDS OUT.
AK Frank Murkowski Republican
AK Ted Stevens Republican
AL Jeff Sessions Republican
AL Richard Shelby Republican
AR Dale Bumpers Democrat
AR Tim Hutchinson Republican
AZ John McCain Republican
AZ Jon Kyl Republican
CA Barbara Boxer Democrat
CA Diane Feinstein Democrat
CO Ben Campbell Republican
CO Wayne Allard Republican
CT Chris Dodd Democrat
CT Joe Lieberman Democrat
DE Joe Biden Democrat
DE William Roth Republican
FL Bob Graham Democrat
FL Connie Mack Republican
GA Max Cleland Democrat
GA Paul Coverdell Republican
HI Daniel Akaka Democrat
HI Daniel Inouye Democrat
IA Charles Grassley Republican
IA Tom Harkin Democrat
ID Dirk Kempthorne Republican
ID Larry Craig Republican
IL Carol Braun Democrat
IL Richard Durbin Democrat
IN Dan Coats Republican
IN Richard Lugar Republican
KS Pat Roberts Republican
KS Sam Brownback Republican
KY Mitch McConnell Republican
KY Wendell Ford Democrat
LA John Breaux Democrat
LA Mary Landrieu Democrat
MA John Kerry Democrat
MA Ted Kennedy Democrat
MD Barbara Mikulski Democrat
MD Paul Sarbanes Democrat
ME Olympia Snowe Republican
ME Susan Collins Republican
MI Carl Levin Democrat
MI Spencer Abraham Republican
MN Paul Wellstone Democrat
MN Rod Grams Republican
MO John Ashcroft Republican
MO Kit Bond Republican
MO Max Baucus Democrat
MS Thad Cochran Republican
MS Trent Lott Republican
MT Conrad Burns Republican
NC Jesse Helms Republican
NC Lauch Faircloth Republican
ND Byron Dorgan Democrat
ND Kent Conrad Democrat
NE Chuck Hagel Republican
NE Robert Kerrey Democrat
NH Bob Smith Republican
NH Judd Gregg Republican
NJ Frank Lautenberg Democrat
NJ Robert Torricelli Democrat
NM Jeff Bingaman Democrat
NM Pete Domenici Republican
NV Harry Reid Democrat
NV Richard Bryan Democrat
NY Al D'Amato Republican
NY Daniel Moynihan Democrat
OH John Glenn Democrat
OH Mike DeWine Republican
OK Don Nickles Republican
OK James Inhofe Republican
OR Gordon Smith Republican
OR Ron Wyden Democrat
PA Arlen Specter Republican
PA Rick Santorum Republican
RI Jack Reed Democrat
RI John Chaffee Republican
SC Fritz Hollings Democrat
SC Strom Thurmond Republican
SD Tim Johnson Democrat
SD Tom Daschle Democrat
TN Fred Thompson Republican
TN William Frist Republican
TX Kay Hutchison Republican
TX Phil Gramm Republican
UT Bob Bennett Republican
UT Orrin Hatch Republican
VA Charles Robb Democrat
VA John Warner Republican
VT James Jeffords Republican
VT Patrick Leahy Democrat
WA Patty Murray Democrat
WA Slade Gorton Republican
WI Herb Kohl Democrat
WI Russ Feingold Democrat
WV Jay Rockefeller Democrat
WV Robert Byrd Democrat
WY Craig Thomas Republican
WY Mike Enzi Republican
Re:What gets me is (Score:3, Insightful)
Although, his actions are not a crime in his home land, he did commit a crime against a company protected by US law (no matter how ridiculous the law may be). The instant he set foot on US soil, he could be arrested, charged and prosecuted accordingly.
People are wondering why he is still being prosecuted despite having the charges dropped. Bottom line is that although the "victim" dropped charges, the federal gov't is aware a crime has been commited. Hence, they have to prosecute. Clearly, somebody wants his ass in sling and are determined to make an example out of him.
Somebody pointed out that they hope he flees because he won't get a fair trial here. Because they are trying so hard to force the DCMA on us, that statement is probably true. A conviction will set precedent. If he does manage to flee, he only has to wait for the statute of limitations to expire before he can attend his next conference in the US.
I'd like to see this tried in world court where they'll laugh at the DMCA and open the path for him collecting civil damages for violation of his rights.
BTW, what *IS* the Statute of Limitations on the DCMA? Knowing the forces behind it, it's probably knows no time limitation (like murder). Lord knows, they will make a witchhunt out of this and burn the little bugger at the stake just to get their point across.
Let's wish this guy luck, hope he runs fast, hides well, and pray the somebody in the High Court comes to their senses.
An EU perspective (Score:2, Insightful)
From the EU perspective, the following question has popped up in my head:
Adobe eBooks and the reader are available for sale in the EU, where it should be legal to make a single copy of an eBook for personal backup use.
So how is it possible to make these legal copies?
I've just mailed this question to Adobe Germany's customer support, and await an answer.
Anyone got an idea about the backup obligations if any,
a company has when selling software products in the EU?
Although it is normally taken for granted , even if the product is shipped from the US, by being offered for sale and taxed in the EU, it is covered by EU consumer protection laws.
So, where do the US DCMA and EU consumer laws conflict?
Ideas?
Justice for Sale (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Party (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Very indicative of our society today... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Adobe (Score:4, Insightful)
slashdotters.
good lord. You can't commit perjury unless you're IN COURT.
the best Sklyarov could get against them is maybe some petty-ante little charge like laying a false complaint.
anyway, if he shows to the trial, even if he's convicted, Elcomsoft gets its money back. It's being held by the bail bondsman now. Nobody can touch it unless he jumps.
he may have a case against the California D.A. for malicious prosecution though. And get this through your legally-untrained skull: it's the federal government who's holding him. Adobe set the ball in motion, but they're not the ones that're doing anything now.
the next time we should discuss Adobe is when their employees are called to the stand. That's when we find out where they really stand on the issues. Right now they can't do anything - good or bad.
Re:My talk with Dmitry post Release (Score:2, Insightful)
That's the one thing I've been wishing somebody would say here on /. - doesn't someone have contact with Dmitry? Why doesnt someone ask him all those questions we've been theorizing over: what he thinks about it all, whether he wants to stay and fight this out (without asking if he plans to skip bail, of course!), his point of view on all of this.
How about the next /. interview being with Dmitry?
My View of the Day (Score:5, Insightful)
I almost didn't go to this hearing. I thought to myself, "What's the point? The deck is stacked against me, the media will spin its own story regardless of the facts or what the EFF has to say, and we'll all be ignored, anyway." At the last minute, I decided that I had to go. I didn't want to, I had to. Though mine may be the proverbial voice in the wilderness, as an ethical software engineer of almost 25 years, I couldn't let this transgression against everything I hold dear go unanswered.
I dressed up in uncharacteristically formal attire, in the event I was asked for an on-camera interview, and drove to downtown San Jose, arriving at about 09:45, and walked to the "Snake" at the end of Caesar de Chavez Park. There were about two dozen people there, most of them carrying hand-made pickets, including a former colleague, who coincidentally also happens to be a Russian named Dmitriy. Also milling through the group were a few media representatives (I saw units from KGO, KPIX, and TechTV).
I didn't see any obvious representatives from the EFF there (though I was asked several times if I myself was a representative). Things seemed a shade disorganized to me. The march toward the Federal building one block away was supposed to start at 10:00. By 10:10, no one was moving, so I walked down myself to make sure I got a seat in the courtroom for the bail hearing which was to take place at 11:00.
I arrived at the Federal courthouse, and made my way through the security gauntlet. (You remember that scene in The Matrix where Keanu Reeves shows up in the lobby with all those neatly-dressed security guards? It was a lot like that. Seven Marshalls stood nearby as they X-rayed my mini-MagLite three times.) Finally convinced I was harmless, I went up to the fourth floor to Judge Infante's courtroom and waited to enter.
There, I met some more reporters from TechTV and the LA Times. Again, I was asked if I was from the EFF.
"No, I'm a software engineer," I said.
"Oh, an actual real person!", said one of the reporters. I got asked why I was there, and tried to explain my concerns. I don't know how well I succeeded.
While waiting, the rest of the protest group arrived at the front of the Federal building. We could see them from the windows of the waiting area. Not too long after, the corridor began to fill up with spectators awaiting admittance to the courtroom.
I managed to buttonhole the LA Times reporter, and tried again to explain the issues as I saw them. I related this case to the DVD CCA debacle, which the EFF is still fighting on both coasts. I felt I was actually beginning to help him understand, when our conversation was cut short when the courtroom doors opened and we were allowed in.
After inquiring with the Marshall what the rules were (laptops okay, cellphones bad), I pulled out my laptop and started making a few notes. While sitting there, I picked up a fragment of a conversation between the Marshall and a spectator who walked in.
"Hey, aren't you on the wrong floor?" asked the Marshall.
"Yeah, but this looked really interesting," said the gentleman.
I didn't get his name, but it turned out that he's a bankruptcy lawyer who was also a computer programmer back in 1963. He saw the hearing listed on the court calendar, and stopped by to watch. We chatted a bit about recording devices and court stenography methods.
At 10:55, Dmitry entered the courtroom with another man, Juan Valencia Rowa (sp?), who was under indictment for a drug and parole violation. Both were handcuffed, dressed in freeway-cone-orange scrubs. By the time court was in session at 11:00 sharp, the spectators' gallery was filled.
Judge Infante banged court into session. It was immediately apparent that this man worked strictly by the book. He was formal and precise, almost to the point of stuffiness. The first case called was Dmitry's. Counsels for the defense and prosecution introduced themselves, and Judge Infante read the summary of the government's criminal charges aloud to Dmitry. Standing next to Dmitry was a Russian translator (identity unknown).
Infante then asked for motions from counsels concerning bail. The government prosecutor stated that they considered Sklyarov a flight risk, since he is a Russian national and has nothing tying him to this area. Nevertheless, a deal had apparently been worked out whereby the government was willing to allow him go free, provided the following conditions were met:
Defense counsel, in support of this, presented character references from Dmitry's professors in Russia, as well as a letter from the Russian Consul. The Judge accepted this arrangement on its face, and ordered exactly those conditions be imposed on Dmitry for his release.
The Judge expressed a concern that the US Department of Immigration might present complications. Dmitry is here on a travel visa. When that visa expires, Dmitry could theoretically be arrested again for violating immigration laws. Judge Infante inquired if Immigration was okay with Dmitry's extended stay. Defense counsel replied that arrangements were not yet finalized, but were underway.
Defense counsel then announced that a custodian for Dmitry was available immediately. Sergei Osokine of Cupertino then stepped forward and introduced himself to the court. Judge Infante informed Osokine that he was vouching for Sklyarov's promise to appear, that he was to inform the court immediately if he became aware of Sklyarov's flight or intent to fly, and could himself become liable for the bail sum should Sklyarov disappear. Osokine indicated he understood and agreed to all this.
Defense counsel then announced that the bail sum was also available immediately, in cash, paid by his employer. Dmitry was then uncuffed, and brought to the center of the courtroom to sign the papers indicating the conditions of his release. The date was also set for the preliminary hearing: 09:00, 23 August 2001. Having forgotten to do so earlier, the Judge then informed Dmitry of the maximum penalty for his alleged crime: $500,000.00 and five years in prison. Once everything was signed, Judge Infante ordered Dmitry's release upon payment of bail to the court clerk, and moved on to the next case. The spectators' gallery emptied almost immediately. The entire process took about twenty minutes.
Outside, an actual representative of the EFF :-) stood before a camera claiming victory in this round of the dispute. Defense counsel, in a different interview, also said he was pleased with Dmitry's release, but that there was still a long way to go before a final resolution.
I stood around with Dan Kaminsky and helped answer questions from a reporter from Reuters wire service. Dan and I can get a bit animated about these issues, and I fear we ranted a bit. Hopefully the reporter wasn't put off by it.
What I did find off-putting were the chants that suddenly broke out from the picketers (who had moved to the other side of the courthouse). "What do we want? Free Dmitry! When do we want it? Now! Hey-hey, ho-ho, DMCA's got to go," etc. I know I have absolutely no practical experience in social agitation for political change, so please accept it as my woefully uneducated personal opinion that I see this sort of thing as infantile. It is not effective or witty, it is lame. It makes you look like brainless, uncreative drones on television, and people will tune you right out. Please think of something different.
After the Reuters reporter left, we answered a few more questions from the reporter from WiReD News, then I left for an appointment at 13:00. On the way to my car, I bumped into Brad Templeton, president of the EFF, who hinted that you may expect to see some new fundraising events in the not-too-distant future.
Why do I give a damn about this? When I first touched a computer at age 12, I saw it as the ultimate tool of creative expression. Theoretically, there was nothing you couldn't do with these machines, no idea that could not be expressed in a myriad of ways. In that instant, I immediately knew that this was what I would be doing for the rest of my life. Not everyone gets the chance to spend their life doing what they love, and I value very highly my good fortune of my vocation also being my dearest hobby.
One of the reasons I've gotten nice jobs in the Valley is because I'm fairly good at what I do. Apart from my enthusiasm, one of the primary ways I got so good was by taking apart things other people did, seeing how they worked, and using those discoveries to build new ideas. I even described my discoveries to others, in the hopes they would get new ideas, too.
In other words, I built much of my professional career doing exactly what Dmitry Sklyarov did.
When the Judge read the charges to Dmitry -- "trafficking in a device to circumvent a technological measure that protects a copyright" -- I nearly became nauseous. There is not so much separating me from Dmitry. I have often thought about -- and perhas will one day -- writing a display hack that takes whatever DVD is in your drive, wraps the movie imagery on to an OpenGL sphere, and bounces it around the screen ("Boing 2001", if you will). To do that, I would have to use the DeCSS code fragment published by Jon Johansen. And doing so would make me a "criminal," a threat to the State and public safety, just like Dmitry.
In a brief flash, I saw myself up there, humiliated, in a hostile place where no one knows me, no one understands what I do -- nor do they care -- answering terrifyingly punitive criminal charges for doing nothing more than what I have loved doing all my life.
I am Dmitry Sklyarov. What the hell am I supposed to do now?
Schwab
Re:Leave Law Enforcement out of it. (Score:4, Insightful)
The police SHOULD enforce even laws they think are stupid*; that is the only way the stupid laws can be corrected. Otherwise the public and congress never get any feedback that the law isn't working right. So they just go on and make more bad laws; which the police would then edit as they see fit, etc., etc. and so forth. Eventually almost everything would be illegal and the police would just arrest people they didn't like.
I realize that the police and DAs are human, and they are going to learn from The Courts which cases have enough merit to likely get a conviction and which ones aren't worth their time. I understand that they will have to make those kind of decisions at some level. But I'd rather the police err on the side of being automatons than have them err on the side of being "street judges". Let the real judges and the jurors be the ones to decide which laws are unconstitutional. Let the Governors and the President decide who should get pardons. Let the public get enraged and call their congressmen when bad or stupid laws cause good people to be arrested. That is the way the process is designed to work; that is where the checks and balances are; those are the people who should be making those decisions. That way bad laws get refined into good ones.
Don't get mad at the FBI for doing their job when they do it right; they have been dropping the ball enough lately that you have plenty of incidents where agents did their job poorly that you can get mad about instead.
*In the town I grew up in, it was illegal for women to wear pants. Of course they did; and didn't get arrested. The law was part of some old "blue laws" that everyone (including the police) thought were archaic. Ideally I'd like to see some city councilwoman arrested for wearing pants; then the law would get changed and the case would almost certainly be thrown out or she'd get a pardon or some such. As long as the laws are ignored they will stay on the books. And every kid who reads about them in school and laughs has their respect for other laws diminished. Worse, every time a policeman knows about such laws and chooses to ignore them, he (and really the rest of society as well) get conditioned to the idea that the police get to choose what laws they want to enforce.