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The Internet Your Rights Online

ICANN Sneaks In Reserved Names For Existing TLDs 148

dtobias writes: "In the ongoing and contentious debate over new Top Level Domains, one flamewar-provoking issue has been whether certain names ought to be reserved as second (or higher) level domains within new TLDs because there's something inherently (or at least potentially) abusive to their use. Entrenched interests of all sorts have proposed everything from famous trademarks to city, state, province, and country names to generic drug names for such exclusion, while people favoring a more free and open Internet have opposed all such exclusions in favor of the traditional First Come, First Served system." (Read on for more.)

"But, under everybody's noses, ICANN has recently snuck in some name exclusions for the existing TLDs, com, net and org. This was hidden in the revised agreements between ICANN and Verisign. See this page in ICANN's site (this is from the com agreement, but similar provisions are in the other two).

Among things that are excluded from use as second level domains are all one and two letter names, all names that are the same as another TLD (both the existing ones and the group like museum that's planned for debut this year), and, most questionably, various names and acronyms relating to ICANN, IANA, and other Internet governing organizations, including aso, dnso, pso, ietf, and ripe. No other organizations in the world yet have the power to ban their names or acronyms from use in all TLDs (though many are clamoring for these powers), but ICANN and IANA have taken this right in a bald power grab, stopping the many other entities in the world whose initials happen to match these from having a right to try to obtain sensible domain names for themselves.

These exclusions apply only to new registrations, not renewals, so the many existing domain names that violate these exclusions will be allowed to continue so long as they don't lapse for nonpayment or get cancelled by a domain dispute panelist's decision.

I have more domain name information and commentary in my site."

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ICANN Sneaks In Reserved Names For Existing TLDs

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  • by Anonymous Coward
    Ok..This could be a troll...or it might not be. First of all, you either cleverly left out, or just didn't know , That ruling was later over-ruled by a higher court. Due to profits from a addresss which a domain name is...It is infact property. -tmm
  • by Anonymous Coward
    Microsoft sells rights to keywords tied into the IE addressbar through a front organization called RealNames. Netscape has a similar system. Both have been online for many years -- the whitehouse(.com) trick stopped working long ago.

    The fact that everyone here is fussing over foo.COM or foo.INC or foo.CX just shows how overly nerdy people are. It's actually easier for the masses (the asses) to type "foo" into the addressbar and let the browser's search/keyword function figure it out. But since you guys are so old skool, you've been typing full domain names and haven't figured it out yet.
  • To suggest that it would be No Big Deal to setup a competiting DNS system is bunk. You do realize that the top level DNS server handles over 1 million queries a second?

    Yeah, I have a 486 box running Linux 2.0.38 which I can donate. We only need about 100,000 more of them and we're set.
  • by Anonymous Coward
    Actually, Scotland has already had this debate. It's true that .sc is taken and so is .ca (for Caledonia), but most people seem to be agreed that .aa would be okay- the old Gaelic name for Scotland was "Alba".
  • The problem with your [1] and so forth is that it requires the cooperation of the people running the DNS servers. Unless you happen to dial into an organization that has a supportive person in charge of DNS, it won't happen.

    I advocate the solution of subverting the hierarchy by standing on top of it. Quick example: you want to create a TLD called blah, and a domain called slashdot inside of it. So, you configure the root of blah as ex1.com and ex2.com. What happens now?

    Your resolver remaps all queries for blah TLD entries and appends either ex1.com or ex2.com (balancing the load), and then passes it along. Your ISP's name servers see a query for slashdot.blah.ex1.com and do the usual thing with it.

    This attacks the problem from the *client* side, so there is no expectation or need for the server operators to change. Also, anyone can create any alternate TLD, since it's just a matter of convincing people to use your set of supporting domains instead of someone else's.

  • by Anonymous Coward
    So if I change my name to France Sucks, do you think they'd let me in the country?

    Actually it's not the country that sucks, it's the people. But don't take my word for it. Go there with an open mind and find out for yourself.
  • by Anonymous Coward
    In addition to that, let's pass a law that says you must build on land within 60 days of purchase. There are an infinite number of domain possibilities. You have to be creative...
  • by Anonymous Coward
    Got two things for ya.

    One - you cant register TLDs, only SLDs within TLDs..

    Second, 'hosting content on a hostname' within a domain is not the only use of a domain. WWW != Internet.

    It is perfectly legitimate to register a domain to use for naming hosts providing a variety of services, none of which include http service on any host named 'www'

    True, many domains are truly not in use, but defining as use as 'hosting content' is incorrect.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 29, 2001 @12:45PM (#257664)
    But then again, why Is Nissan Motors entitled to that name anyway?

    They're not and that's why they don't have it, Nissan Computer Services in North Carolina does. However, Nissan Motors has appx two and a half shitloads of lawyers so they will wield them like a hammer and pummel that poor Jew fellow who owns Nissan Computing Services.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 29, 2001 @12:52PM (#257665)
    "uselessness of 1-letter names" Actually once the United States catches up the with rest of the world's grasp of WAP 1 letter names would probably be the most sought after names on the market. Imagine how much easier JAne and Joe Handheld Device user would go to your site if they only had to enter 1-2 letters.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 29, 2001 @02:27PM (#257666)
    The Internet Domain system was never intended to be used as a keyword system. That's why Netscape and Microsoft built search and keyword capabilities right into their address bar interface. Your hypothetical index has been there from the very beginning, and it's called Yahoo (etc).
  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 29, 2001 @12:41PM (#257667)
    He was true to the spirit of the internet and of free information for the good of humanity. Now, IANA and ICANN are just another corp trying to squeeze blood from netizens. Fuck ethics. Fuck the individual. Fuck poor African nations without a net presence. Fuck everything between me and a bigger bank account.

    We need:
    [1] a new set of root servers (easy).
    [2] copy all existing TLD and SLD info to these servers (time consuming/expensive but possible)
    [3] set policy. "First come, first serve." (that's it. done.)
    [4] Convince big name ISPs to point to these root servers. (extremely difficult)

  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 29, 2001 @01:22PM (#257668)
    Each time there is a legitimate conflict, the disputed page should point to an index. For example, nissan.com should point to a plain html page that says:

    Do you want:
    - Nissan Computers [linktonissancomputers]
    - Nissan Motors [linktonissanmotors]

    Same for anything else. sunsetmotel.com (I just made that up) would be an index to all the Sunset Motels in the world. If there are 15 legitimate contender, it's better to have an index, than to have one winner and people who can't find the address of the Sunset Motel they have in mind.

    That's why I prefer an index like Google with some editorial power. Compare a helpful index [google.com] with the winner of a stupid URL war [sunsetmotel.com].

    Downplay ICANN! Use search engines and private indexes!

  • by Wakko Warner ( 324 ) on Sunday April 29, 2001 @12:58PM (#257669) Homepage Journal
    This little Shockwave Flash video about ICANN [paradigm.nu] made my day. Funny stuff.

    - A.P.

    --
    Forget Napster. Why not really break the law?

  • Norway (.no) has it this way. One domain for you; provided, of course, that you're a registered corporation/organization. Also, the name you register has to be derived from the name of your organization, i.e. shortened, full, acronymized etc. Makes you wonder about por.no ..
  • Yeah, who's ever heard of big Asian industrial conglomerates making cars and computer gear.

    Ignoring the likes of Hyundai and Daewoo, ofcourse.

    ...j
  • by Xunker ( 6905 ) on Sunday April 29, 2001 @12:37PM (#257672) Homepage Journal
    What happens when two companiesvie for the same name?

    This bothers me because then the 'big boys' woulds decide with copyright holder is entitled to teh domain. Case in point, Nissan.com [nissan.com] run by Nissan Computer services, but Nissan Motors wants it, too.

    Under the old system, Nissan Computers got it becuase he was there first, and because he has a legal right to the name. Under the new system, I guarantee that Nissan.com ( dot-whatever) would go to Nissan Motors without any sort of consideration. This a a Bad Thing.

    But then again, why Is Nissan Motors entitled to that name anyway? 'Nissan' is not their name, it's Nissan Motors (or something to that effect).
    .
  • Sounds like the Internet community needs better representation. Of course, since ICANN is theoretically representative now (kinda) (sorta), perhaps there's grounds for a malpractice suit, or at least an ethics inquiry.

    Dare to dream, I guess.

    Caution: contents may be quarrelsome and meticulous!

  • by Skapare ( 16644 ) on Sunday April 29, 2001 @11:41PM (#257674) Homepage

    The Internet became popular not because some business decided to push it, originally. Businesses were latecoming. It became popular because there were enough people doing enough cool stuff that it attracted everyone else.

    What does this have to do with domains and root servers?

    If we start using non-ICANN domains for our really cool stuff, the free stuff, and resist the temptation to put anything more than instructions on how to get to the cool stuff (e.g. change your resolver hosts) on legacy TLDs, then it can more quickly build up a following.

    If the .mp3 domain gets going soon, how long do you think it will take the RIAA to be using alternate domains?

  • Actually, this has been relaxed a bit lately. You still have to be a registered corp/org, but you can have several domains (I can't find any limit in the current docs), and the domain names don't have to relate to the organization name.

    Regarding por.no, it was reserved, together with a bunch of other names (such as city, county and other geographical names (which are used as third level domains, previously for businesses based in those areas, you had to have national presence to get an SLD). The reserved list shrunk significantly during the relaxation of the rules, ee the list [norid.no]

    of reserved names.

    © 2000 Ilmari. All ritghts reserved, all wrongs reversed

  • I wish there was a "-1 Naive", or "-1 Fantasy", moderation -- this poster fits the bill.

    ~dlb
  • This is Slashdot. We don't even permit you to read the article before posting.
  • by Nightpaw ( 18207 ) <jesse@NosPam.uchicago.edu> on Sunday April 29, 2001 @03:19PM (#257678) Homepage
    How would you define legitiamte use? Is this: http://www.orangepurple.com/ [orangepurple.com]? I register the name, but I just don't know what I'm going to do with it yet. Am I a bad person?
  • This just *screams* out for some outside-the-box thinking.

    First, let's all agree on some not-necessarily-human-friendly universal description of what things are (incorporating D&B #s or whatever), something that you and only you can and should have and that computers and people can use when they must refer to precisely you across arbitrary contexts.

    For everyday usage, let's build computers that "do the right stuff". For instance, if I type http://coke the machine should present me with visual images of a can of soda and a lump of coal, the default selected by the current context. (Was I previously searching for minerals? Was I previously searching for entertainment or food?)

    Everybody in the world will ultimately come up with their own personal names for a few things, and other things will come together "by convention", just like real life!

    Y'reckon?
  • "Content hosted on them"?

    That's ridiculous. One of my own domains sends and recieve thousands of emails a day, but has nothing "hosted on it" if you're referring to HTTP... On the other hand, one of my other domains DOES have something "hosted on it" but consume far less bandwidth because it's almost never visited.

    I'm not squatting on either of them, and as far as I can tell, nobody would have any right to snatch them back off me, regardless of whether or not I have "something hosted on it".

  • by Frac ( 27516 ) on Sunday April 29, 2001 @12:35PM (#257681)
    I think the remedy is simple. We should just reserve all the current names that are registered under the .com, .net, and .org domains for the new TLDs, so that cybersquatters won't be able to abuse the new domain names offered. And the current domain owners get also their rightful domain names under the new TLDs.

    Um, wait a second...

  • actually it is free to register something like city.state.us but you need to be authorized by that city to handle the domain. after that city.state.us is delegated, you can charge whatever you want. the nic.us site says this (or used to)
    so its not always free...
  • To be found here:
    http://www.paradigm.nu/icann/icannstage.html [paradigm.nu]

    And a Reg story here:
    http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/18530.html [theregister.co.uk]

  • Pespico and their cronies will have to pry my hunting rifle and target pistol from my cold, dead hands.

    Easily enough arranged. Home address, please?

  • Only American LIBERALS use the terms "offensive," "abusive," etc. Get your politics straight, jerkball.

    Hey, according to *Dutch* standards, even American liberals are very conservative.
    Thank you for exactly pointing out what I meant: there are other viewpoints in the world than the American ones, but it seems hard for some Americans to accept that this mere possibility even exists..
  • by Reinoud ( 33024 ) on Sunday April 29, 2001 @01:18PM (#257686)
    "In the ongoing and contentious debate over new Top Level Domains, one flamewar-provoking issue has been whether certain names ought to be reserved as second (or higher) level domains within new TLDs because there's something inherently (or at least potentially) abusive to their use"

    Abusive? To American standards? To Muslim standards? To Buddhist standards? Does this mean the entire world has to compy with a view of what is abusive that is typically American?
    It is bad enough already that the com/net/org domains fall under American jurisdiction, now we have to comply with American conservatism too...
    When will everybody start to realize that the Internet is more International that the United States?
  • The whole TLD system needs to be fixed - period.

    Adding .whatever won't help, because the system was intitially designed when the internet was relatively small *and* largely corporate free. The TLDs had meanings - .net, .org, .com, .edu, .gov. It's pretty simple to see what those things mean.

    Then, the internet went global. Now you have every company on the face of the globe competing for the same name in the .com domain - because companies are allowed to have the same name in the real world as long as they are different types of business. This doesn't work with the current TLD system.

    To further compound the problem, companies in the same business are allowed to have the same name, provided they don't overlap regions. Restaraunts are a classic example of this. How many differrent cities have a "Grandma's Restaraunt" or "Mom's Kitchen", when none of them are related? So who gets mom.com?

    First come, first serve makes sense initially, but the problem is easy to see, and easy to see blow up - which is what happened - when it goes global.

    The TLD system needs to be completely revamped to have several different manners of identifying the same business.

    1) There should be a geographical notation TLD - sort of a business.city.state/province.country

    Ex: momskitchen.newyork.newyork.us and momskitchen.neworleans.louisianna.us

    People will adjust to the difference in nomenclature - and it isn't all that complicated. However, this system presents a problem for large multinationals. So, we need to address this. Perhaps a .mtl domain would work for them.

    2) We need to have a business type TLD system - so that Bob's Car Market and Bob's soul kitchen and Bob's spandex emporium all can have a reasonable web address. So businessname.businesstype.country might work for them.

    This is the type of stuff that is going to need to be done to fix this problem. It's going to need to be totally revamped in a manner similar to what I have above.

    Then, when changing over, give businesses 1 year to grab their web address (since they can no longer claim ignorance to the net) and then put them up for grabs.
  • by Medieval ( 41719 ) on Sunday April 29, 2001 @01:02PM (#257688) Homepage
    What percentage of them are actually used? I'd like to see all TLDs that don't have content hosted on them after, say, 60 days, freed up. Use it or lose it.

    Two problems here.
    1. TLD is a top level domain, like .com or .org; I'm certain you meant second level domain.
    2. What if people aren't putting web content on them? What if, for example, they are using it as a second level domain specific to a particular non-web service, like email? Some companies have domains dedicated to email, for various (legitimate) reasons.
  • The rub lies in the companies who provide the actual physical circuits -- the MCIs and Sprints of the world.

    Get real, will you? I knew Jon Postel [isoc.org] - I had a beer with him in Geneva the year he died - and I knew his long and close friendship with Vint Cerf [worldcom.com], whom I also know. And Vint is now Senior Vice President for Technology at MCI WorldCom [worldcom.com].

    One of the things that tied Vint and Jon together (apart from being close friends for thirty years) was that both of them cared passionately about a free and open Internet. Vint still does. You only need to look at his page on Social, Economic and Regulatory Issues [worldcom.com] to see that. ISOC [isoc.org]'s slogan 'The Internet is for Everyone [worldcom.com]' is very much his slogan.

    I think everyone agrees that ICANN [icann.org] is a mess - but it's a mess brought about by lawyers (mainly American lawyers), not by the Internet pioneers. Also, and this is what makes me most worried about articles like this one, is that the people who are doing most to damage the concept of a free, open Internet for everyone are not the pioneers - they're the get-rich-quick sleazoids who come in on the back of the pioneer's work and try to grab a chunk of the territory for themselves. We can all see that people who register patents [slashdot.org] for old and obvious ideas just by tagging 'Internet' onto the end of them are sleazoids. Can you not see that alternate TLD registrar wannabes are also sleazoids?

    Yes, ICANN stinks. Yes, we need a more open, democratic authority controlling the top-level domains. But the Internet pioneers are not the enemy, and MCI is not the enemy. And in my opinion, the second thing that needs doing to ICANN (after making it democratic) is to move it out of American legal jurisdiction.

  • by hattig ( 47930 ) on Sunday April 29, 2001 @12:48PM (#257690) Journal

    I do agree with the first two options (although not with the third as I think that is abusing the system badly - maybe Coke will pay ICANN and Verisign to reserve coke.tld in all namespaces in the future (even coke.book or coke.museum or whatever silly TLDs are released) whatever their Trademark covers).

    However, if uk.com is accidentally not reregistered, then there will be an awful lot of angry customers of uk.com when their domains stop working. I imagine similar services exist for other countries, de.com? fr.com? eu.com I know exists...

    Perfect as Verisign just start their own "uk.com" service using the reserved word because "The domain just wasn't reregistered - your credit card was never authorised (never entered into the terminal more like) - sorry, nothing we can do"...

    In the UK, the first two rules already exist, hence there is only one 1 letter domain (x.co.uk), and a few 2 letter domains (bt.co.uk, f9.co.uk) that were allocated before Nominet came in to manage the namespace. It works quite well, and gets rid of confusion. You cannot have gov.co.uk, or nhs.co.uk, or org.co.uk, as the third-level-domain conflicts with an second-level-domain.
  • In the UK, the first two rules already exist, hence there is only one 1 letter domain (x.co.uk), and a few 2 letter domains (bt.co.uk, f9.co.uk) that were allocated before Nominet came in to manage the namespace.

    Also, how many anomalous names are there? www.bl.uk [www.bl.uk] is one - are there more? (There's stuff like www.parliament.uk [parliament.uk] and www.police.uk [police.uk] which are presumably post-Nominet and deliberate, but I guess that bl.uk is a relic ... ?

    (BTW, this new anti-troll device is really annoying. It blocks posts from subnets where there has been a lot of down-moderated activity in the last 24 hours. So if you have the same ISP as a lot of trolls, then you can't post (unless you log into university machines :-) I really hope they refine the bloody thing ASAP - it seems silly to block posts from people whose karma is high. Off-topic, I know, but I guess there's hundreds of people who want to say this but can't.)

  • they need to speed it up before it will completely take over.
  • You have to be creative...

    Or if you're not feeling very creative, there are more than a hundred interesting possibilities at Peckerheads domain board [peckerheads.com].
  • There's a difference though. Phone numbers made of letters are not unique, and in fact 1-800-GATEWAY and, say, 1-800-HAVE-WAX would be the same number. So it would really be impossible to consider a phone number a trademark.

    Of course, I don't think domain names SHOULD be considered trademarks, but that's how it will be as long as ICANN is in power...
    --
  • www.internic.com looks pretty official.

    It's official now, but a few years ago a company had it and was taking advantage of consumer confusion to pass through domain registrations to the real Internic (whose site was at www.internic.net) at a large markup. Presumably, some of these exclusions are designed to prevent that sort of fraud.

  • by Nonesuch ( 90847 ) on Sunday April 29, 2001 @01:04PM (#257708) Homepage Journal
    The name "coke" is a Trademark of Coca-Cola, but ONLY when used in reference to a beverage. I could choose to register 'coke.net' for my fossil fuel's distribution company, and it is unlikely that Coca-Cola could do anything about it.

    It is unreasonable to give major corporations first dibs on names in TLDs unrelated to their primary area of business.

  • by Nonesuch ( 90847 ) on Sunday April 29, 2001 @01:01PM (#257709) Homepage Journal
    Disclaimer: IANAL

    In general, with the exception of certain 'famous marks', a trademark applies only to one specific market.

    I may hold the trademark for "Ferret's Bookstore", but that would only give me ownership of the domain "ferret.books" , not first dibs on "ferret.com" or "ferret.shop" or "ferret.xxx".

    Before suggesting that an international organization take pains to protect American trademerks, first consider the definition of a "trade" "mark", and how a registration for a specific term used for a specific market in a specific locality applies to a global naming system.

  • by sheckard ( 91376 ) on Sunday April 29, 2001 @12:38PM (#257710) Homepage
    Why should they take away all 1- and 2-letter names? I can somewhat see the uslessness of 1-letter names (but having one would be very sweet), but two-letter names could definitely have some use. They say that they are trying to avoid confusion with established country codes, but why not reserve just country codes then, not everything?
  • by nahtanoj ( 96808 ) on Sunday April 29, 2001 @12:37PM (#257711)

    ...people and organizations that cannot stand a bit of humor and fun. This is what that is. If no-one can register icann-sucks.com then no-one can make fun of them, right? Wrong! This is a call-to-arms! Spoof them now! Let them know that we will not stand for this desperate grab to appear legitimate!

    Or we could just sit back and do nothing. Because, this is not that important or anything.

    Ciao.

    nahtanoj

  • As far as I know, there is no maximum length stipulated for TLD strings. The two-letter country code TLD/three-letter global (nominally) TLD distinction seems to be strictly convention. As you say, .museum and .aero are two longer examples which ICANN is considering. Other roots have many other examples. OpenNIC, for example, operates .parody and .null (see my URL, above!).


    Claim your namespace.

  • by Inti ( 99884 ) on Sunday April 29, 2001 @05:27PM (#257713) Homepage
    Amen, brother. ICANN must die.

    With regard to your points:

    [1] a new set of root servers (easy).

    Done. Several such already exist. OpenNIC, AlterNIC, ORSC, TINC to name just a few. All of these are operating right now.

    [2] copy all existing TLD and SLD info to these servers (time consuming/expensive but possible)

    Not necessary. They can have .com, .net, .org and the new ones, as well. All we have to do is have the new root servers delegate the legacy TLDs to the ICANN/NSI servers. So ICANN does not cease to exist, it simply becomes one of many. It becomes subject to COMPETITION. People will be able to vote with their feet. In fact, people are alreasy beginning to do so!

    [3] set policy. "First come, first serve." (that's it. done.)

    Not so simple. Generic TLDs should be first-come first served. There should also be a place for chartered TLDs, though, like the existing .edu. OpenNIC is mostly focussed on chartered TLDs, while the other alternate roots seem to have mostly generic TLDs. Rules and regulations pertaining to domain name ownership and rights and priority should be decided on a per-TLD basis, at the time of that TLD's incorporation into the root.

    [4] Convince big name ISPs to point to these root servers. (extremely difficult)

    That's the trick, allright. I think this will happen in stages. Stage 1 will be early adopters, mostly people who feel like they have a stake in the way the DNS is operated and who are fairly technically savvy. This is where we are now, with probably less than 20000 users of all the alternate roots combined. Stage 2, I think, will be when some of the free OS distros begin to include alternate DNS as an install option. Probably Debian, Slackware and the *BSD people will be first. This will bring in a ton more users. This may be less than a year away. We at OpenNIC have had discussion with people involved in some of these OS projects. Nothing has been decided, but positive noises have been made. At some point a critical mass will be reached. The alternate TLDs will begin to have enough content so that joe earthlink user will begin to call support and ask why he can't visit www.good.beer or something. This will be stage3, when the ISPs begin to come on board. At that point the revolution will have suceeded.

    So get on the bandwagon early. Join up now!


    Claim your namespace.

  • by notsoanonymouscoward ( 102492 ) on Sunday April 29, 2001 @12:39PM (#257715) Journal
    Or do you mean, it was there and you didn't see it in time to sound the alarm?

    When dealing w/ legal contracts such as this, nothing is hidden from the two sides making the deal. They've both been over the contract many times w/ a fine tooth comb.

    Apparently someone thought it was a small enough concession to allow the contract to go through... me thinks you should join ICANN and complain there... Hate to break it to you, but complaining on /. might not be all that helpful

  • by Domini ( 103836 ) on Monday April 30, 2001 @12:49AM (#257716) Journal
    I sorta got into the whole domain thing early on, and got "e.co.za" for myself. There's no chance of finding single letter domain names, since only a few second level domains are created for za (South Africa). The control is (thankfully) quite strict here.

    had a nice ring to it...

    Nice as a personal e-mail domain, yes?
    I'm not domain squatting or anything like that, and don't think I will *ever* sell it.

    Just thout I'd brag.

    Share and Enjoy.
  • by keithmoore ( 106078 ) on Sunday April 29, 2001 @02:25PM (#257717) Homepage
    there are resolver libraries which search relative to a default domain suffix, and which remove one component of that suffix at a time until they get to the root. for example, a user at a.b.tld might be trying to look up foo.bar, but his resolver would first try foo.bar.a.b.tld then foo.bar.b.tld, then foo.bar.tld, then (finally) foo.bar.

    so someone who owned (say) com.store could screw everybody whose default domain ended in .store, by populating that com.store domain with bogus entries made to fool folks using .com. for instance, www.cnn.com.store could point to a fake www.cnn.com web site (perhaps a mirror of the real cnn.com site with different advertisements).

    ideally of course resolvers wouldn't do this.
    but there are a lot of broken implementations out there, and its easier to fix this with ICANN policy than it is to update all of those broken resolver implementations.

  • But then again, why Is Nissan Motors entitled to that name anyway? 'Nissan' is not their name, it's Nissan Motors (or something to that effect).

    For the same reason that the Honda Motor Co. of America's website is here [honda.com].

    --
  • by Animats ( 122034 ) on Sunday April 29, 2001 @08:34PM (#257720) Homepage
    New TLDs could start off with domains priced at some very high price (say, $10 million each), with a 10% price cut every day until $10 is reached, about six months after start. Now that would be a market.
  • by KahunaBurger ( 123991 ) on Sunday April 29, 2001 @03:18PM (#257721)
    Entrenched interests of all sorts have proposed everything from famous trademarks to city, state, province, and country names to generic drug names for such exclusion, while people favoring a more free and open Internet have opposed all such exclusions in favor of the traditional First Come, First Served system."

    Why not just throw in "puppy kickers vs noble citizens" while you're at it? the range of suggested exclusions looks like it spans the whole spectrum of entrenched, new, corporate, civic and public health concerns and definitly some would favor a "more" free and open internet than others. To put the whole range short of internet anarchist (those who prefer an anarctic internet, not a political appalation) as "intrenched interests" and the "no rules except first comes first served" crowd as moderates is just insulting to the intelligence of your readers.

    yeah, /. has an agenda, and I know that when I come here, but could you lay the propaganda a little less thick next time? Some people want lots of limits. some want a few, some want a different few. You want none. Don't let your position blind you to the existance of a range outside of it, it just makes you look foolish.

    Kahuna Burger

  • by Lord Omlette ( 124579 ) on Sunday April 29, 2001 @02:49PM (#257722) Homepage
    "There should be a geographical notation TLD - sort of a business.city.state/province.country"

    This already exists! It's just that everyone wants a .com domain, not a .nj.us domain. What we need to do is have it enforced.

    Anyone who 'claims ignorance to the net' should have their business license revoked and the owners shot.

    Peace,
    Amit
    ICQ 77863057
  • That woulnd't be so hard. If anyone managed to set up an alternate network of DNS servers (I hope so), all it would take is on official domain name (say freenames.org). If someone on the altnet registered www.linux.oss, then we could say that linux.oss.freenames.org would point to that site. It would be a longer URL, but anyone could get to the other sites. We should have a more open organization in control of the domain names, and one way to get that is to force the current organization out of the game.
  • You can have 1-800-gateway and Gateway computers could not touch you.

    Yeah, but get 1-800-ITS-UNIX and AT&T will be all over your ass. :-/

    --

  • Really [new.net]? Okay, so they didn't "switch" outright, but you're still incorrect. The big-name ISPs will be happy to add your servers to their db.root for a sufficiently large sum of money.

    --

  • However, if uk.com is accidentally not reregistered, then there will be an awful lot of angry customers of uk.com when their domains stop working. I imagine similar services exist for other countries, de.com? fr.com? eu.com I know exists...

    Perfect as Verisign just start their own "uk.com" service using the reserved word because "The domain just wasn't reregistered - your credit card was never authorised (never entered into the terminal more like) - sorry, nothing we can do"...

    I used to work for CentralNic [centralnic.com], who operate uk.com, eu.com, de.com (not fr.com, that's somebody else) and many other similar domains of the form xx.com and xx.net, and the domains were renewed for ten years. So, even if Verisign "arranged" for the domain not to be renewed, your uk.com domain is safe from that until 2010.

    In the UK, the first two rules already exist, hence there is only one 1 letter domain (x.co.uk), and a few 2 letter domains (bt.co.uk, f9.co.uk) that were allocated before Nominet came in to manage the namespace.[...]

    This is more or less correct, except that you can have two-character domains provided that one is a letter and the other is a digit, so f9.co.uk is still valid under the present rules. I strongly doubt that any of the 520 such combinations remain unregistered though.

    What I quite like about Nominet's rules is that you have to be an ISP to have a .net.uk address, and there are strict rules as to what the user can do with it. Unfortunately, Nominet do not appear to be policing this, and there are abuses such as onetel.net.uk (which IMO should be deleted for breach of contract).

  • I couldn't agree with your suggested sollution more. Of course, most of the truly technical people at all the ISPs would probably fall on the right side of this issue, so doing this subversively at first is probably doable if only we could organize everyone necessary. The rub lies in the companies who provide the actual physical circuits -- the MCIs and Sprints of the world. When the suits and their lawyers get wind of this quiet revolution, they'd have the plug pulled on the bandwidth to the subversives' machines. I'm all for an open revolt against corporate stupidity and the rebirth of Common Sense. See http://www.inhuman.net for something I found sadly appropriate.
  • Unfortunately, Coke doesn't see things the same as we do. For example, I used to have a customer back when I was in PC Retail who owned a kennel where she raised some obscure breed of ugly little dogs. Her login name for her ISP was kokakola, and so she set up a homepage for her kennel at her ISP-provided web space. The URL was http://people.herisp.net/~kokakola/ (I don't recall which ISP she used). Both she and her ISP got nasty letters from Coke's legal pricks, forcing her to shut down a site with absolutely NO POSSIBLE confusion with Coke, and no possible trademark dilution. Herein lies a major personal quandry... Do I support a beverage company like Pepsico which is a major contributor to causes that want to take away my 2nd Amendment rights, or a bunch of nazis like Coke? I choose Mtn. Dew because it tastes best, and while Coke can get a site taken down, Pespico and their cronies will have to pry my hunting rifle and target pistol from my cold, dead hands.
  • by TheWarlocke ( 142349 ) on Sunday April 29, 2001 @12:34PM (#257732) Homepage
    This is a blatant abuse of their power and position, and is completely wrong... but to whom are they accountable? As far as I can tell, they're the top of the food chain in this situation. If you can't trust the police, who do you get to police them, right?
  • by Mathonwy ( 160184 ) on Sunday April 29, 2001 @01:36PM (#257733)
    ...When starting a new country, make sure that you don't pick a name that has the first two letters of someone else's country, or you might not be able to get a TLD for it! And then, no digital e-commerce revolution for you!
  • by IronChef ( 164482 ) on Sunday April 29, 2001 @01:47PM (#257735)
    Depending on where you live, you don't have control over your baby's name either. France [allbaby.com] has strict laws, so does Norway and maybe Germany.
  • On the top of the nissan.com index page:

    "Not affiliated with Nissan Motor Co. Ltd. For Nissan vehicles see "NissanDriven.com"

    Not that you couldn't figure that out anyway (would Nissan Motors be selling computer hardware?).
    --
  • by monkeydo ( 173558 ) on Sunday April 29, 2001 @04:03PM (#257739) Homepage
    Actually the effect to the "community of Internet users" will be very nearly zero.

    1) These restirictions only apply to this agreement with verisign.

    2) If you actually read the restrictions, they are almost trivially stupid and obvious.

    3) The actual names that ICANN is reserving are probably actually going to be used by ICANN or IETF et al. They are simply calling "first dibs" on those names which is their perogative. They are NOT restricting permutations that contain those names wuch as icann-sucks.

    4) The two letter domains are only reserved unitl the "implementation of measures to avoid confusion with the corresponding country codes. " which is also perfectly reasonable.

    5) Reserving single letter domain names is also reasonable considering how few there are and no one really has a "legitamate claim" to any of them. How would you settle a dispute between two people who wanted a.com?

  • His explanation unfortunately blows it - he _could_ have tried to get away with the subjunctive case instead of a preterite (i.e one which would have been non-past). Colloquially he's in the clear too, but I guess we're not permitting colloquialisms here, are we?

    FP.
    --
  • 1) There should be a geographical notation TLD - sort of a business.city.state/province.country
    This already exists: .us. Unfortunately it doesn't get much use.
    People will adjust to the difference in nomenclature - and it isn't all that complicated. However, this system presents a problem for large multinationals. So, we need to address this. Perhaps a .mtl domain would work for them.

    2) We need to have a business type TLD system - so that Bob's Car Market and Bob's soul kitchen and Bob's spandex emporium all can have a reasonable web address. So businessname.businesstype.country might work for them.

    Multinationals should get .com. Infact IMNSHO a company should not get a .com address unless have a presence in a large number of countries or at least are prepared to deliver to a large number of countries. Everyone else should get an address in the geography specific heirarchy.
  • by ichimunki ( 194887 ) on Monday April 30, 2001 @06:02AM (#257743)
    Maybe you should switch to herbal tea. You might find it very relaxing.
  • by Alex Gurney ( 224744 ) on Sunday April 29, 2001 @12:52PM (#257746)

    ICANN mentions "aso", "dnso", "icann", "internic" and "pso" as reserved for their own use as second-level domains. But www.aso.com is already "Aircraft Shopper Online", and www.dnso.com is a very nice anti-ICANN site. OK, www.icann.com already belongs to ICANN, and www.internic.com looks pretty official. (www.pso.com, on the other hand, is one of those spartan "under construction" doodads).

    (I haven't checked the longer "IANA" list, but there are probably a few of these that are already taken, and not just in .com.)

    Anyway, I can see why ICANN might want to shut down the "Gnomes of Zurich" (who claim credit for dnso.com), but what about those poor guys selling aeroplanes? Are they being forced to relocate?

  • that I can't register icanncankissmychairshiner.com? Damn.
  • by spoocr ( 237489 ) on Sunday April 29, 2001 @12:33PM (#257752)
    and, most questionably, various names and acronyms relating to ICANN, IANA...

    Does this mean I can't register IANAL.com?

    Maybe if IWAL (I was a lawyer) I could get away with it.

    Tyranny, I tell you! Tyranny!

    -- Chris

  • by spoocr ( 237489 ) on Sunday April 29, 2001 @12:49PM (#257753)
    On the flip side, it makes it incredibly infuriating to try to find a name for an internet startup. I was recently trying to find a name for a non-porn teen site I'm building, and it's just nearly impossible. People register TLDs by the hundreds. What percentage of them are actually used? I'd like to see all TLDs that don't have content hosted on them after, say, 60 days, freed up. Use it or lose it.

    -- Chris

  • [3] set policy. "First come, first serve." (that's it. done.)

    The problem with this policy, whether you enforce it under the existing system or another system, is that it is fundamentally in conflict with trademark law in most countries.

    So we have this system. So I register nissan.cx. I have a Slashdot-like site for encryption junkies, and I sell hats and shirts with the RSA algorithms on them.

    Okay, I get sued by Nissan. What else did I expect? They sue me for unlicensed use of their trademark and trademark dilution. Who wins in court? They do. After all, I was using their well-known mark to further my own business interests.

    There's got to be a solution, but "first come first serve" is not it. It will probably require some changes in domain registration, and possibly changes to trademark law, and probably international treaties to make it work. (Trademark law different in different countries, and we have to get them to agree somehow.) Setting up a "first come first serve" DNS system is just asking for lawsuits.
  • >> Each time there is a legitimate conflict, the disputed page should point to an index

    And what if I happen to run "Nissan Fuck Shop"... do you really think that Nissan Motors' lawyers will sit back and be happy being listed right after me (after all, "F" comes before "M")?

    I think not. Good idea, but in reality, the big boys wouldn't play nicely with the rest of us.

    MadCow.

  • To suggest that it would be No Big Deal to setup a competiting DNS system is bunk. You do realize that the top level DNS server handles over 1 million queries a second?

    You're on crack.

    Look at the stats [root-servers.org] for one of the better-connected (and hence more-queried) of the 13 root servers. It's receiving about 2.2Mb/second between two interfaces, which - assuming about 100 bytes per request - is 2750 queries per second. Even charitably assuming all the servers get the same load, that's 35,750 queries per second worldwide.

    I've run DNS servers almost that busy on $5K boxes. Bandwidth is the bigger issue. Free it ain't, but it's nowhere near the pipe dream you make it.

  • But I have to agree. We have a trademark system for a reason. Companies pay big $$$ to protect marketable brand names.

    I think it is reasonable for a domain name that contains a trademarked word within X levels of a TLD to be reserved for that trademark holder. Why not? That TM holds up in any other media and as much as I love the anarcy of the Internet, these companies have a point and have rights to whatever they may trademark.

    But the rules must be precise - no fuzzy "well its CLOSE to our trademark" BS. Either the word/phrase is in the domain and you own the trademark, or you don't and have no rights to it. And if you want to USE the names, you better pay up like the rest of us!

    --

  • by TheSHAD0W ( 258774 ) on Sunday April 29, 2001 @01:06PM (#257761) Homepage
    Maybe this isn't such a bad thing.

    Admittedly it could cause some serious problems while being phased in. You'd be tossing people out of their domains left and right.

    Once you were done, once a certain deadline had passed... You could phase out the trademark system and have everything done via domain name. Want to reserve a name? Forget paying a trademark lawyer $375; just reserve a domain name for $12. It's already taken? Darn.
  • This seems to limit my free speech if I can't get a domain like productnamesucks.com .

    Instead of being able to let everyone know about how I hate said product name - which I think is still protected under the first amendment - it has to be under a url like: w3.ispprovider.com/~username/speech/ihatehomedepot .html

    It's BS -- who said I would be using the product name to market something? They've already decided what I intended to do with the name before I used it. I know its not illegal to refer to the product name of what I'm bashing.

  • A *lot* of ISPs seem to have two-letter domains: he.net, mv.net (my old ISP), wi.com, etc. Apparently, they can hang onto them, but still...
    ________________________________________________
  • by suwain_2 ( 260792 ) on Sunday April 29, 2001 @01:15PM (#257765) Journal
    the single-character domains have been blocked for a long time; but there's one thing I always wonder -- how is it that x.org is taken? (For the X Windows people) I'm yet to find another single character that's taken, although there may be others that I haven't found (domains, not letters in the alphabet... although that's always possible, too...)

    Can anyone enlighten me?
    ________________________________________________

  • The Libertarian Party has lp.org.
    --Dan
  • I didn't say it was hidden from the people actually signing it. It was hidden from the community of Internet users who will be affected by its provisions, who aren't technically parties to the agreement, but will have their actions restricted by it anyway.

    Admittedly, the effect of these exclusions on the current TLDs is negligible because few if any of the affected names are available now anyway (though there will be an effect if somebody fails to renew their domain and it becomes unregistrable), but this provision appears to me to be a trial balloon towards imposing the same thing on all future TLDs, which would be a significant restriction, and would inevitably encourage pressure groups of all sorts to lobby to expand the excluded names to cover even more categories.
    --Dan
  • by dtobias ( 262347 ) <dan@tobias.name> on Sunday April 29, 2001 @01:52PM (#257771) Homepage

    On a tangentially related note, x.com was formerly used by a really sucky online bank, known for screwing its customers by freezing their accounts for no good reason and putting them in a Kafka-esque nightmare trying to deal with their bureaucracy to get them unfrozen, as well as changing their terms of service constantly without notice to impose minimum balances, fees, etc. where none existed before. Then they suddenly left the banking business, causing customers' checks to bounce as the accounts became unavailable and "the check was in the mail" to the customers to eventually get their balance back. Now they own PayPal [paypal.com] and are running that service in much the same screwball manner. Read some horror stories in sites like Epinions [epinions.com].

    I don't know how they managed to get that single letter domain, but they don't seem to really be using it any more; it just redirects to the PayPal site now.


    --Dan
  • In the sex.com litigation, a federal judge ruled that domain names are not property like a trademark or copyright. Rather they are a service, like a phone number

    Actually that was not the rulling. A Domain name is not property for one part of the case but is for another.

    The reason a domain name is not property is that it has no tangible representation. It is not like cash that can be deposited in the court. It is not even like cash in a bank account which is a representation that can be escrowed.

    Of course a domain name is a valuable property the way a UK license plate number can be. (A1 resold for over a million dollars a while back). So damages were assesed on that basis.

    I agree however that there should be a statute of limitations. Anyone who has not picked up a dot com yet for their trademark should lose the right to grab it from someone who did. That is not where domain name disputes are these days however, there are plenty of secondary names which arguably infringe trademarks (FordTruck.com for example).

    Equally a lot of the petty name disputes (gwbush.com) could be solved by simply setting up name spaces that were policed in a reasonable fashion. For example the US government could assign .candidate.gov as a hierarchy for federal election candidates. To register in the hierarchy a person would have to meet certain legitimacy criteria (be standing as a candidate, use their original name or one they have been known by for a certain number of years, etc.).

    The point is that there has to be a balance. First come first served does not solve every problem. Johnnie come lately grabs good domain with over priced, under ethical lawyers creates more problems than it solves.

  • maybe Coke will pay ICANN and Verisign to reserve coke.tld in all namespaces in the future (even coke.book or coke.museum or whatever silly TLDs are released) whatever their Trademark covers).

    VeriSign will be happy to do just that. They own ID names, a company that specializes in DNS name management. They know the rules for registration in every single TLD, wether qualification is required, forms of payment etc.

    They typically handle large accounts and manage all the domain names for a company through a single point of contact. That makes sure that a name does not get dropped because nobody remembered to pay the bill and the email address of the technical contact is bouncing.

    In addition they will even email you the minute a new TLD is created (rare) or (more common) an existing TLD changes its rules so that qualifications are no longer required before registration. The trend has been for regulations to be relaxed since checking rules takes time and costs money.

    The per domain charge is low. But the number of tlds is getting on for 200 and many compaines have multiple brands. There is also a trend toward registering xyzsucks.com, xyzreallysucks.com xyzarenazis etc. Its like buying floor tiles, the charge per tile can be small but when you buy a room full you end up signing a big check.

  • Introducing any sort of rule introduces costs if it is to be enforced. As it happens it is impossible to determine if an MX record for a mailer is in use or not without monitoring traffic to the mailer.

    60 days is a ridiculously short time since many commercial enterprises plan major marketing campaigns months or years in advance. If I am spending $100K on canvasing opinions of six potential product names I think I am doing enough to justify registration in any sane system. However I am not about to go and prove it.

    Any system that relies on human judgement is going to end in lawsuits or the rule being ignored. Or most likely as has happened in several country TLDs lawsuits being filled and the rules being dropped.

    It is simply not economic for registrars to work for $35 per name under the rules proposed. I don't think people want to pay $200+ for initial registration.

  • The difference is, since you are from the USA you are used to the default of everything being US-centric.

    Untrue, I am not a US citizen and have no plans to become one. I have lived in four countries so far.

    The problems you describe are not what the DNS is designed to solve. DNS is not a yellow pages.

  • Interesting how one can get a score of 5 these days for suggesting national TLDs (like .uk has not existed for years) as a solution.

    Fact is that the national TLDs are more of a problem than a solution. Most companies have global aspirations. That is why nobody wanted the OSI names that started C=US, what does a company like Nokia put there? Many companies do not want to introduce parochial national issues into their names.

    I buy a burger from McDonalds, not McDonalds.US. Even products that are linked to very specific countries such as sports cars are global brands. Everyone knows that no Jaguar is ever going to be built outside the UK and no Ferrari is ever going to be built outside Italy (except for certain F1 machines :-). Even so Ferrari and Jaguar are world brands, not national brands and are managed accordingly.

    There is certainly a case for a new directory infrastructure. Folk who want to rip up DNS to build it need to take some reality pills though. Fact is that DNS is the ASCII of the Internet, you might like to change it but you ain't going to.

    New directory systems are going to come along. Names and keywords in those systems may well become valuable as the DNS names have. However they will be supplemental, not replacements.

    Lots of companies have started directory schemes, most fail. Even the companies 'selling' names into spurious DNS spaces only they and about six other people resolve through have seen revenues shrivel.

    To establish a new name space a company is likely to have to meet the following criteria.

    Be a significant Internet player (we are talking Microsoft, VeriSign, Cisco level here, large positive cash flow, millions of customers not CMGI or Idealab! startups).

    The names must be useable by hundreds of millions of users.

    Offer names on a uniform, non discriminatory basis. This means that the registrar does not cherry pick the best names and sell them at vast rents.

    Names must be offered on a freehold basis. Many directories try to rent names. So I spend $20 million to advertise a name and you raise the price on me...

    Names must be usefull to the end user. Yahoo is no longer any use to me, I no longer find what I want, I find an idiot advertiser that paid Yahoo. If I type in Microsoft it has to take me to Microsoft, not a MSFT hate site. If I type in About Microsoft I get those.

    On the TLD side proper, one solution is to simply go to a flat structure. There is no technical reason why the root could not have ten million names in it. The dotcom zone already has that number of entries and works just fine. The engineering required to make it work just fine is non-trivial. But if the world wants to type in www.cnn. or www.google. and have it work there is no technical reason. VeriSign would just love to run it for $6 per name the same price as dotcom.

  • I'm not sure if they'd pull the plug or not, but it would be a public relations coup for the alternate domain owners if they did. Can you imagine how much of a black eye the backbone providers would get if they did this? But I can't see them doing this. Why should they care what root servers their customers are pointing to? Now, if you mean that management at the various ISPs would pull the plug on this if they found out their admins were doing it, yes, they probably would, and I'm not sure I'd object to that. If I owned an ISP, and I found out that my employees were doing something without my permission, I'd be pretty pissed off about it, especially something as fundamental as redirecting DNS traffic. But the question becomes how to do this without causing mass confusion. IOW, what exactly are you wanting to do? Create new TLDs? Rewrite the rules for existing TLDs? Both? Overthrow ICANN and replace it with something else? Personally, I think that the main danger is that'd we'd end up with a splintered domain naming system and the chaos that would go along with it. Therefore, overthrowing ICANN would probably be the wisest course of action. If we went that route, then the first step is to set up a rival organization. Get some well-respected folks on board and write a charter that Internet users and admins can support. Build the organization up from a grass-roots level and make no bones about what its goal is: to replace ICANN with or without ICANN's support. And don't be shy about what will happen after that. If the new organization intends to repudiate the agreements that ICANN has made with Network Solutions, then say so. If it intends to throw out the current domain name dispute resolution policy, then make that crystal clear. IMHO, these are all things that people hate about the current situation we find ourselves in. Capitalize on that anger. Point out all the things we've grown to hate about ICANN, then put forward an organization that'll fix these problems. Don't go the "underground" route with this. Let everyone know what your intent is. But above all, keep the new organization unified. The one thing that will scare the hell out of people is the possibility that all you're doing is creating chaos.
  • by Peridriga ( 308995 ) on Sunday April 29, 2001 @01:25PM (#257782)
    In the spirit of free information growth and sharing.

    Why would the banning of TLD make that much of difference aside from the ease of use for the web. When you goto whitehouse.com you obviously know that it is not the offical site for the White House. Ease of use is the only logical reason for limiting of use of TLD's. With the downturn of the current .com enconomy, actual hit's(pagecounts, banner ads) b/c of the misuse of TLD's (i.e. mispelling of popular domains) is becoming less of a means of gaining fincially by page views. Aside from the obvious copyright problems with registering TLD's of trademarked names their shouldn't be any other limits of the possibilities of TLD's.

    --- My Karma is bigger than your...
    ------ This sentence no verb
  • by vidarh ( 309115 ) <vidar@hokstad.com> on Monday April 30, 2001 @01:10AM (#257783) Homepage Journal
    You're right. It is because of the multi-lingual domains. To allow "seamless" interoperation with the current DNS system, and applications not prepared for multi-lingual domains, the current proposal encodes the multilingual names into ASCII, and then prepend two letters followed by two hyphens so that applications that does handle multilingual domains can recognize it.

    Only one combination of characters will likely be used, but since the encoding etc. isn't finalized, they don't want people to speculate in, and more importantly don't want registrars to start offering, domains based on a pure gamble that the encoding won't change.

  • by mech9t8 ( 310197 ) on Sunday April 29, 2001 @12:50PM (#257784)
    I mean, with companies like internic.ca [internic.ca] making money just by abusing customer confusion, it seems only sensible to be blocking off the names. For most of them, all this rule does is keep the ICANN from having to pay registration fees every year. Oh no! (And it appears to only disallow the names, not anything which contains the names, so ieft-sucks.com would be fine.)

    ICANN already owns all the single-digit domains, and the double-digit domains are probably all held by cybersquatters, so I just don't see this as something to be outraged about.
    --
    Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies.

  • by mech9t8 ( 310197 ) on Sunday April 29, 2001 @12:53PM (#257785)
    but why not reserve just country codes then, not everything?

    Possible explanation: New countries are popping up all the time. Are only countries which exist in the 1990's (or whenever) allowed to have their own domain?
    --
    Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies.

  • by number one duck ( 319827 ) on Sunday April 29, 2001 @01:30PM (#257786) Journal
    New tld's are just an excuse to get another recurring billion from the exact same corporations as before, and they buy it, every time (Whats another $70 a year to a corporation?). Not that it isn't shady, but I absolutely *love* this scam.
    Wish I'd thought of it when the internet was still relatively young..

  • by underpaidISPtech ( 409395 ) on Sunday April 29, 2001 @01:45PM (#257788) Homepage
    As much as I wish domain names were first come, first serve, that just is not the way it is. We live in a global market, and there are multinational corps larger than our moralistic dronings about *what is right*. You see it in DeCSS, RIAA vs. Napster, MPAA vs. Gnutella. (Note: Most of these organisations are from the "land of the free")

    We may live in democracies, but that is only true for a few days every four years.(barely--witness the American Presidential "elections")
    The rest of the time capitalism wins the day, and money greases the wheels of the gears that make it possible to hire (some) of us at inflated salaries.

    The Internet no longer belongs to the long-haired phone-phreakers of the days of yore. That is why they *privatized* Internic, because the gov't could no longer subsidize the beast.

    We know that webpages and email aren't the internet and that it so much more, which is why we get in a snit about shit pulled by the corporations, but explain that to the majority of users. Napster is about as close as most of them will ever come to realizing the potential of the Internet, and they are more concerned about getting free music. Welcome to the Hive.

    (grumble) I must have woken up on the wrong side of the bed today..

  • by Professor J Frink ( 412307 ) on Sunday April 29, 2001 @01:31PM (#257790) Homepage
    Actually I see relevance for both 1 and 2 letter names. Look at all the companies and products that begin with 'i' and 'e', e.i.e would be the ultimate in ecommerce sites! ;0). Or even w to have w.w.w. That'd rock.

    More seriously, there are also big associations with something like 'X'. Would MS, Apple or even good old unix hackers want .x for X-Box, OS X, X Windows, the X-files and so on.

    There's also all things like TV (television or transvestites), TG (transgender), cd maybe for record shops, pc for computer shops, ff for us Final Fantasy buffs ;0). Frankly as long as you're not screwing with a whole country's TLD what's the point in not allowing us to use them? I now want the w.w domain, I think it'd be really cool, why should some group of boring people stop me using whatever name I want?

    And, OT, why is that a small cabel of (US I believe) people control a medium that is totally global? Then again, what's new...

  • by bsquizzato ( 413710 ) on Sunday April 29, 2001 @12:57PM (#257791)
    What they are proposing is like saying "A child can not be named 'Timothy' because this was the name of Timothy McVeigh".

    It's as if saying you can't own your own name.. after all, it is your right, isn't it?
  • If Anglo-American real estate laws can be applied to TLD's, that proposal might actually hold up in court. The "fair use" laws that apply to real estate contracts in many states hold that if someone is not using the estate they own, yet someone who does not have title is using it, then they gain the title (usually after 10 years).

    Since it's impossible for someone to use someone else's TLD (website cracking notwithstanding), then perhaps this logic should be applied to your proposal.

  • by Lothar+0 ( 444996 ) on Sunday April 29, 2001 @12:45PM (#257795) Homepage
    The current first-come first-served system helps to put a check on the balance of power. Large corporations and government bodies are the ones who want these type of protections from someone using their trademark, so their only option is to buy up the TLD's that might be used in an "abusive" manner. George W. Bush's campaign's purchase of names like "bushsucks.com" and "bushblows.com" come to mind.

    Either way, W's campaign had to sacrifice at least some resources on their part to do this. Those that ordinarily might have bought up these names, other than Gore's campaign staffers at least had the opportunity to do so. Under this proposal, no such equalizing system exists. It's preordained that the powerful will not be "tampered" with.

  • by Facekhan ( 445017 ) on Sunday April 29, 2001 @12:53PM (#257796)
    I would oppose reserved names for this reason beyond all others. In the sex.com litigation, a federal judge ruled that domain names are not property like a trademark or copyright. Rather they are a service, like a phone number. Anyone can buy a particular 1800 number as long as no one else is using it first. You can have 1-800-gateway and Gateway computers could not touch you. It should be that way with domain names as well. If a multibillion dollar corporation wants to have all the top level domain names for its trademark than it can shell out the 70 bucks per piece that us regular folks have to. And if they don't want to lease the domain names and pay the money then someone else is gonna do it.
  • So what happens to x.org?

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