Catch up on stories from the past week (and beyond) at the Slashdot story archive

 


Forgot your password?
Close
typodupeerror
×
Music Media Your Rights Online

France To Tax Blank Computer Media 339

Posted by timothy from the or-I-shall-taunt-you-a-2nd-time dept.
hmckee points to this Reuters story on TechWeb indicating that French computer buyers may soon face extra fees to compensate artists for illegal copying, levied on hard drives as well as more conventional recording media like magnetic tape. Computer-based recordable media like CD-Rs and mini-disks will be taxed starting later this month as well. hmckee writes: "Although it's not definite for France, I didn't know Germany started at the beginning of the year."
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

France To Tax Blank Computer Media More

France To Tax Blank Computer Media

Comments Filter:

  • Great! Where's my check? (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    So, if I own a camcorder, then maybe I've been using it to shoot porn and then sell it to my neighbors. It is certainly possible that my neighbors are then digitizing it, and then burning it on CDRs or giving out free copies on the Internet, which hurts my sales. Therefore, I will receive a periodic check from the government to compensate me, right?

    All of the media taxes are based upon the assumption that there is single organization (or small number of organizations) who represent everyone who produces commercial content. This is bullshit, so the government is clearly subsidizing some private businesses at the expense of their competitors.

    The problem is, it's almost true, and becoming truer. If there were more independent producers, then the above sham would become more blatant and obvious, and the government corruption would become uncomfortably exposed.

    So the trick is for the media monopolies to dominate storage defacto standards. That way, you can't publish a DVD, broadcast HDTV, or serve a Sorenson Quicktime stream without signing some sort of contract, thereby assimilating you.

    The only thing to do is use truly open standards, with no patents, so that nobody can twist your arm. Then you can compete with the megacorps, and as you gain marketshare, it will be harder and harder for politicians to justify the way they misappropriate the collected media tax.

  • hate to break it to you (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    The U.S. has already had this type of legislation in effect for years.
  • Staring this year, Danes have to pay an additional $0.5 (DKK 4) for each blank CD-R purchased. Protests were launched and people/stores stockpiled pre-tax media, but it looks like the tax is here to stay.

    Personally, I'm ditching CD-R and moving to larger harddrives..
  • It also killed the media as a viable consumer alternative to CD's. Heaven forbid you can record on something. You're OBVIOUSLY going to be pirating the mass-marketed commercial bubble-gum garbage that the record companies put out. I don't think think a tax on CD-Rs will hold up in the USA if it ever happens. There are too many people that have the drives these days. Hell, all I use mine for are burning Linux CD's and making backups of my system. If I really wanted to listen to the bubble-gum rock I'd just play them off my hard drive or buy a car mp3 player with a hard drive.
  • CD's are used a lot more for other purposes than copying music so the fee for these CD's is a bit `unreasonable' but I think it's fair enough...by the way...the fee is NLG 1,08 per hour (less than USD 0.5).


    Considering that's what I pay for the CD-R itself for decent quality 4x Media, I do consider that unreasonable (100% price increase.)
  • What about the computer game companies that have had to live with piracy?

    This is great example of big business getting to the government, but, it's not the first, and it's not the last time.

    Anyway, I won't repeat what others have already said, in this forum, and many others, but I do believe that a tax like that, would give you the right to copy music, but then again, have you enough money to fight for it?

  • I suggest e.g. Debian to file a formal request to receive part of the money. If I put Debian on a CD, should the money go to some music artist or to the SPI?
  • Why do you think everyone who visits the US from the EU comes back with more luggage than they leave? :)
  • This is like Kansas applying such a tax. The French can just buy from a Dutch firm. I get my stuff through the post and I would not care if I had to get it from somewhere else. This is just so stupid it is surreal.

    I do not believe for one minute that the money is intended for the artists, it is just another tax to raise money for stupid politicians. They cannot put any more on fuel so they are looking for other ways of robbing the people. They give some trite reason and expect the public to be stupid enough to believe them.
  • I live in France but I find this tax completely irrelevant to me, as I am quite close to the Belgian border.
    However I fear that the french industry might find it less irrelevant for them as the only thing that can stupid taxes like that one bring is the creation of a black market.
    I've been living in France for two years now and I have yet to see the government making a smart move.
  • Or just do what everyone else does, and burn your CDs on your computer CD-R using normal "data-grade" CD-R blanks. They work in about 100% of all CD players on the face of the planet.

    - A.P.

    --
    * CmdrTaco is an idiot.

  • You've produced the template for a lot of debates I read around here.

    I've decided that discussion between people with extremely different viewpoints (Communism is obviously stupid vs. Communism is the way to solve our problems) will degenerate into some form of the above because neither party shares the other's assumptions. The assumptions are seldom acknowledged in the debate, and neither side intends to change their assumptions, so pretty soon they accuse each other of being "closed-minded."

    Some people try to argue from (mostly) commonly held assumptions, but that results in giant philisophical treatises that justify some complex world view using a bunch of specious reasoning and verbal smoke-and-mirrors. In reality, the author has already assumed the end in mind and is just playing connect-the-dots to lead you to it. (Not that this is a bad thing. Mathematicians do it all the time. The difference is that math is done in rigorous framework, allowing the "connect-the-dots" steps to be checked for validity. However, there is no rigorous framework that can be used to prove the nature of man, so you have to make a bunch of unprovable, though perhaps probable, assertions.)

  • You just don't get it, do you?
    disk is short for diskette, which is the traditional name for what are now called floppy disks.
    Phillips own the trademark for "Compact Disc"s, and that's how they choose to spell it.

    I imagine discus beats both roots. My dictionary shows it as having an oldest known use in 1656.

    Frankly I hadn't really noticed the difference and I just switched over to disc because I like how it looks.

    IMO, to assign a definitive differentiation is rediculous.
  • Definitive answer!

    "Alternative spelling of disk . Disc is often used for optical discs, while disk generally refers to magnetic discs, but there is no real rule."

    What part of "there is no real rule" makes it definitive?

    Of course this is all moot anyways, all my MiniDiscs have exactly that spelling: MiniDisc.
  • The U.S. has already had this type of legislation in effect for years.

    It's true that there's a tax like this on audio-grade DAT tapes. But the tax currently does not apply to any other storage media, including computer-grade DAT tapes.

    This legislation, by contrast, appears to affect all storage media. And while even just doing this to DAT tapes is a great shame, taxing all media is a totally different -and even worse- beast.
    ----------
  • You missed out brains. I've got loads of tunes and pictures in my head, which is clearly theft. $1,000 per cubic inch sounds about fair to me.

  • I wrote a fake news story [best.com] last year about exactly this kind of thing, except I set it in the U.S.

    Anyone else feeling as powerless as I am right now?

    Schwab

  • Logical? Pah!

    I got no problem paying a tax on pirating CDs, but I sure as hell have a problem with my tax money going to fund a useless damn government administration department for the administering tax, going to fund a useless damn recording industry department for doling out what pittance is left over, and going to fund that goddamn Celine Dion who's going to get whatever few pennies remain.

    --
  • Just figure it's worth pointing out that the tax is going to pay for, in *this* order:

    -- a new government office that is responsible for administering the tax.

    and

    -- a new RIAA office that is responsible for distributing the money that's left over.

    *If* there is any money left after RIAA processes it, the money goes to artists in proportion to their sales.

    --
  • I consider this strategy a lot more sensible and less limiting to freedom than the outright ban on technologies, or the attempts by corporations to push hardware standards that make copying impossible, or the wholesale lawsuits against Napster and the people who use it. Adding a small fee to products in order to compensate artists is a small price to pay for the freedom to be able to listen to, look at and share the content we want to.
  • Of course, this is no less true when we purchase media from the recording industry, is it?

    Honestly, artists get a better deal (especially in Europe, but everywhere) from public agencies that can commission works. If the money from these taxes goes directly into an arts agency that is principally charged with funding music and art, then it's a better deal for artists and audiences alike than simply having Napster sued out of existence so that Columbia music can protect its revenue stream is.

  • Hey why should the media producers be the ones who bear the burden?

    How 'bout pencil manufacturers?

    How 'bout all those photocopy machines?

    And don't get me started in on those printers...
  • 1. How is this money being distributed? As a musician-- well, a guy who's about to go buy a microphone and casio for this very reason-- I'd like to know where I collect my check, as my alleged music is going to allegedly be pirated.

    2. I hope they start taxing oil-based paint too. Because I read somewhere that art thieves are pirating portraits as well. Not to mention that ink and paper needs to be taxed, seeing as how it's used not only for plagerism but for counterfeiting *AND* writing unAmerican articles.

    W


    -------------------
  • > France is a democracy right?

    No, it's a republic, same as the US. No democracy anywhere in the title. Now East Germany, the old GDR, was a true democracy: the German Democratic Republic. How much more democratic than that does it get?

  • I was just pulling your leg. It was mainly a play on the recent hypocrisy surrounding the US elections. When people wondered how the US can be a true democracy when the majority presidential vote doesn't count, smug conservatives all to happy with the turn of events countered that the US was not a democracy but a republic. Small technicality, and if pressed I doubt they would defend the viewpoint that the US does not in fact espouse democratic principles.
  • A BIG case of short sightness on the part of the french was that the guns on the Maginot line couldn't be turned around. After all, they never thought that they'd get attacked FROM french soil. The germans flanked them.

    LK
  • You raise several interesting points. There has been some speculation that some military higher ups may have known that the attack on Pearl Harbor was coming, that's why so much of the fleet was out at sea. But that's neither here nor there.

    If the guns on the Maginot line has been about to turn 360 degrees and (very important) the Germans didn't know that they could, it would have changed much about the invasion of France. The germans would have most likely taken the country anyway, but they would have incurred much heavier losses in the process.

    LK
  • It will soon be legal to copy music digital in Denmark, it isn't right now. That also includes Minidisc.

    Because if this, Copydan [copydan.dk] will begin to put about half a dollar on each blank media! They are also talking about CD-burners, etc.!

    They say it is because the artists should be compensated, which I is kind of fair.
    This is just not the right way to do it - it is the easy way. On blank cassette tapes it was alright because they couldn't be used for much else than music, but CD's is used for a lot else. How many CD's gets burned with free software, for backup - everything but music? A lot - why should the artists get money for that? It simply doesn't make sense :-(

    Greetings Joergen

  • I want to say up-front that I do not believe that blank media should be taxed. I want to point out the error in your logic.

    The key-word in this taxation is compensation (or, whatever that is in French!). This is compensation in the legal sense. This is not the type of type of, "I compensate you for your services or product," type of compensation; it is the you have done wrong upon me under the law and now you must pay me for it.

    When O.J. was found guilty in the civil lawsuit put forth against him for killing two people he was forced to compensate the Goldman family. The fact that he compensated them did not make his killings legal.

    -AP

  • Problèmes: Acceptation de criminel: " payez cet impôt, juste au cas où vous seriez un criminel. " C'est ridicule. Le paiement de l'assurance auto est une chose, parce que personne ne projette jamais avoir un accident, mais impôt des personnes juste au cas où elles décideraient de faire quelque chose de illégal. Shit. Qui volonté il aide? Qui est ceci censé pour bénéficier? Les artistes? Bullshit encore - ils obtiennent déjà vissés, juste comme ils ont toujours été, et continueront à être. Pas que chaque musicien est exploité, mais un grand nombre soyez, et ils ne verront pas un cent de ceci. Modèle d'affaires. Au noyau, c'est des impôts de prélèvement de gouvernement sur une population à étayer vers le haut d'un modèle périmé d'affaires. Si la vraie concurrence étaient présente dans l'industrie, les compagnies rechercheraient à améliorer leurs plans d'affaires plutôt que demandent le gouvernement une aumône. Il n'est pas mon travail de compenser des imbéciles des procédures de gestion échouées: la stupidité devrait être douloureuse.
    --Shoeboy
  • You might as well be a criminal. I figure that if you've already paid for the assumption that you're going to pirate, go ahead and do so. It's not like you're going to be able to repeal the law until you buy off more legislators than the recording industry has.

    I wonder how long before blank paper is taxed; after all, you could copy a book onto it...

    -jon

  • Whatever happened to the good old French policy of striking whenever something you didn't agree with was imposed?

    I mean if duck hunters can go on strike (Good for the ducks I guess) because of losing some ancestral hunting rights, why shouldn't there be an even bigger response to this sort of nonsense?

  • Actually audio CDRs have a special code on them, which is required for use in audio CD recorders. This is why I will never buy an audio CD recorder.

  • Hmmm. Interesting, but I believe it is you who have made the logic error...

    If this is the type of compensation that is "because you have done wrong upon me under the law", as you put it, then shouldn't they have to prove that I did do wrong upon them under the law? Just as OJ was found guilty in the civil case, and had to pay compensation, shouldn't they have to find me guilty before I pay?

    But with this kind of compensation, they don't have to prove that. If they could, they would just charge me with copyright violation. Instead, they charge everyone.

    Therefore I restate my belief that this "compensation" should be regarded the payment kind of compensation that gives me the right to copy their material.


    Torrey Hoffman (Azog)

  • "State owned business (no monopolies screwing us)"

    Uh .. a state-owned business IS a big monopoly that screws you. Ask South Africans about Telkom .. (no longer state-owned, technically, but still a government protected monopoly under a communist-like scheme ..) .. there is NO incentive for state-owned companies to improve their products and services, so the best affordable connection you can get here happens to be a 56k modem.

    Better yet, ask somebody living under a truly Communist government (rather than a pseudo-communist government that pretends to be capitalist like ours) how good the services are. (Regulated) capitalism still wins, hands down, even though it sucks so much. The least-bad of all alternatives, it would seem. The problem with USA capitalism, it seems, is that the government is a pawn of big business, and its supposed to be a pawn of the people. But that does not mean that capitalism is at fault - it just means that americans should try to keep tighter reins on the government. With things like DMCA, I get the impression that the people have not too much control currently over what the government does.

  • I guess Communism is beginning to look alot more appealing, eh?

    Nope, just the Western governments are coming closer to what Eastern European governments were doing for 50 years - meddling in economic affairs, which should be left to the market, limiting privacy, and trying to exercise micro-control over society. Therefore, communism is just as unappealing to the thinking individual as before.

    In addition, your stupid remarks are offensive to those who have suffered because of the sick ideology that is communism, and to the memory of the tens of millions killed in its name.
  • The difference between Capitalism and Socialism is that Capitalism allows you to choose which bastards fuck you over. With socialism, it's always the government screwing you.

    As we all know, the government doesn't do anything well, so being screwed by them is like bad sex with the same partner for your whole life... Capitalism at least allows you to try some different partners and positions for being fucked over.
  • Yawn.. must I be so precise. Even though the US is a Democratic Republic I would still say that it is a democracy. Maybe not a "true" democracy but it has a democratic process.
  • how is this a solution? It's not like the french government is a merchant selling widgets. "Just go someone else" assumes that your vote with your dollar is actually going to change something.
  • The government collecting taxes to build roads implies that you can drive on the roads.
  • dude, I dont even want to live in a watered down democracy, the majority are my mortal enemy being one of the minority myself. Why cant everybody just mind their own business and live their own insignificant little lives?
  • That's why all communist countries made strikes illegal-- because strikers were automatically rebelling against the good of the people, as already determined. That's why it's illegal in Cuba to be absent from work, punishable with imprisonment.

    Interestingly, capitalism is the only system that is made healthier by strikes, unions, etc. Peaceful association is a right because it helpf keep people free and limit the power of the government and its deputies. People who are free to engage in collective bargaining -- i.e., strikes -- and chose freely to work or not to work for any government or business -- have control over their own lives. I.e., they are free; or can be if they wish to be. Authoritarian states (like Cuba, the USSR, etc). cannot tolerate that.

    - - - - -
  • >I mean if duck hunters can go on strike (Good for the ducks I guess) because of losing some ancestral hunting rights, why shouldn't there be an even bigger response to this sort of nonsense?

    I was on a date with a lady named Rosen last night. As things got down to business, there was a quiet moment of pillow talk where I asked her what her ultimate fantasy was. She murmured something about "computer owners, MP3 users, and hard drive buyers refusing to use their hardware, play MP3s, and purchase hard drives... a strike, if you will...".

    Then everything went black. shudder.

    I'm kinda glad I don't remember what happened after that, but there you have it, another sacrifice I've made in the name of freedom. The things I do to keep you geeks informed these days, really. ;-)

  • Everybody's started taking the idea that the media-company business model is stupid as a given. But, also, nobody has yet (to my knowledge) suggested an alternative. To concentrate on music, there have generally been two suggestions: give away music, concentrate on live tickets (bullshit: works decently for certain people, generally arena-rock groups, but doesn't even come close to working for, say, musicians with families or hip-hop/electronic/other non-live genre musicians) or that users should give artists voluntary "tips" (uh huh. like that's gonna happen.).

    So, if you're able to call the current media business model painfully stupid, what do you in your non-painful and non-stupid ways suggest?

  • If this makes sense, then so do these:

    • A special tax on gasoline to compensate banks that have been robbed. All bank robbers use gasoline in their getaway cars.
    • An additional tax on water, to compensate law enforcement agencies for drug enforcement costs. Water is widely used in the cultivation of cannabis and other narcotic plants.
    • A tax on wood, for the same purpose. Wood is used in the construction of most buildings that are converted to meth labs.
    • A tax on Italian food. As everyone knows from the movies, most Mafia business is conducted in Italian restaurants.
    • A Twinkie tax, the proceeds of which will go to the victims of those murdered by crazed junk food addicts.
    • A pen tax, used to compensate copyright holders whose works are illegally copied out by hand.

    And to think most governments are missing out on all these...

  • Is a Government bought and sold to/by TransNational Corporate interest not enough?

    In France, political parties cannot be funded by corporations.

    Although individuals can make private donations (no more than FF 50000, ie approximately $8000), the main source of financial support for political organizations is the State. Each party receives an amount of money which is calculated according to its scores in previous elections.

    This may seem somewhat unfair towards small parties, but under such a system, Ralph Nader (randomly chosen example of course :o) would get much more money than he does right now. Why do you think the Green Party is a government party in France and Germany ?

    However, this kind of law could probably not be passed in the US. The ability of a party to collect funds is seen as a strong indicator of its popularity (ie representativity), and therefore as an essential aspect of the democratic mechanism. Suppressing corporate funding would probably cause strong opposition, not only from coporate powers, but also from the public at large (although most /. reader would probably beg to differ :o).



    Thomas Miconi
  • Firstly, Isn't the whole "Innocent until proven guilty" thing built into the US constitution? The way this law punishes all for the crimes of the few makes me sick to my stomach. If they ever try for this in the UK I for one will kick up a stink.

    Secondly, What about software piracy? It's my observation that much more piracy happens to software than to music, this leaves the stink of powerful lobbying rather than thoughtful government.
  • That might be a defense to the RIAA and MPAA doing similar in the USA.

    Have you ever bought a blank cassette tape or VHS tape in the US. Then guess what... part of your money went to the RIAA or MPAA. We *already* do this in the US. The only difference is that we're not taxing computer media, yet.

  • I wonder if it is cheaper for them to order CD-Rs and the like from US or other "non EU" countries. With every one talking about the global economy, wouldn't be neat to see a benefeit. Your govt. passes a law that makes things you want more expensive, you goto your on-line browser and BANG! 35 cents a CD-R. By a bunch and sell them to your friends :)
  • hehe. yeah. communism rocks.

    look how good russia turned out. oh wait....


    FluX
    After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
  • mmmmmmmmm. i love fuzzy logic.

    A) thing A sucks so bad, there's really no denying it (i.e. Russia's economic and social infrastructure).

    B) person 1 comes along saying A doesn't really suck and that anyone saying A sucks is brainwashed.

    C) person 2 comes along and says that A does, in fact, suck.

    D) person 1 gets to show how quick-witted and intelligent he is by saying something to the effect of "you see! you've been brainwashed into thinking thing A sucks"

    i suppose the fact that i believe anything proves that i've been brainwashed into believing it.


    FluX
    After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
  • Is there a tax refund for people buying blank media and not using it for non-infringing purposes?

    That might be a defense to the RIAA and MPAA doing similar in the USA. File a lawsuit for refunds of the taxes for non-infringing uses.

  • French should complain in the guest book of the Ministere de la Culture http://www.culture.gouv.fr/culture/livredor-accuei l.htm [culture.gouv.fr]

    Please stay polite, and don't spam it, it will be much more effective that way.

    Madame la minstre Tasca can be joined via http://www.culture.fr/culture/comment-ministre.htm [culture.fr]

    Le premier ministre Jospin can be reached at mailto:premier-ministre@premier-ministre.gouv.fr [mailto]. As there are 3 elections in the next 18 month, telling him the opinion you have on the issue and how it will impact you vote can be pretty effective.

    Resistance (which is not futile) is at www.vachealait.com [vachealait.com]

    If you know other resources, please reply. I don't want SONY/EMI/VIVENDI etc, getting money each time I burn a FreeBSD CD

    Thanks.

    Cheers,

    --fred

    Quand j'entend le mot "culture" je sort mon portefeuille.

  • talented Canadian musicians - who will prosper on their own without government help - promptly pick up and move to greener pastures in the United States.
    (See Alanis Morrissette, The Barenaked Ladies, Crash Test Dummies, Big Sugar, Maestro Fres Wes, SoulDecision, Choclair, Celine Dion, Sloan, ... Paul Anka?)

    Wow! Are you saying that if we put this tax into effect in the U.S., we might be able to drive Celine Dion back whence she came? That's the most convincing argument I've heard yet in favor!

    If we made the tax really really high, could we pass back the boy bands?
  • Note: I am trying to be as neutral as possible here with my opinions on MP3s, consumer v. artist rights, etc. It might sound like I'm not, but I'm just trying to make a point here.

    Now that I've got that out of the way, does this mean that while it is not okay for fans to "steal" from artists, it is okay for artists to do the same from fans? Look at it this way -- in this situation, the artists are obviously taking what is more or less an arbitrary amount of money (value, if you will) from the fans here. So how then do they [the artists who are against MP3 trading, and the RIAA in general] justify their stances *against* MP3 trading, music copying, etc.? By doing this, they are implying that while it is not okay for fans to "steal," it *is* okay for them to do the same.

    Is it just me or do 'taxes' like this seem to be a little on the hypocritical side?

    ---
    Check in...OK! Check out...OK!
  • Around 15-20 years ago there was a proposal in the UK to charge a levy on the sale of every blank audio tape.

    I believe it fell through when it was realised that it was unworkable, as there was no idea how the money raised could be broken down, with the only guideline being the way PRS royalties were divided. The general consensus would that it would make people like McCartney even richer, whilst the struggling small acts wouldn't earn anything.

    Is this actually legal under EU law?

  • Depending on the criteria you need to meet to get a slice of that media-tax pie, it does seem like the state is subsidising an industry. My understanding is that appeals to the WTO don't cost anything, so it could make for some useful publicity (even if the WTO will almost certainly ignore it as a joke, and instead concentrate on trying to strip some other country of its environmental standards :-)
  • Because the only reason for this tax is to fill the pockets of some unimaginative media giants.

    Dont you know ? You only license music nowadays.

    Until your licensed recording magically turns into a product

    The magic moment is when a new super-mega-hifi-monster recording media (according to press releases by the RIAA) appears on the market and you go to a store and you intend to upgrade your licensed media for a buck or two.

    But fear not: The world is so full a magic.

    Because the moment you leave the store your proudly purchased product magically turns into a license

    You may want to refer to a good dictionary under extortion, greed or racket.

    No need to thank me.

  • Do you have any further information on this?
  • spent 17 years under socialism

    And somehow these Capatalist Bastards are not fucking you?

  • In Norway, they are planning to do the same thing.

    It was this law professor who has a long history of dealing with IT who responded to protests with something like "if we don't do this, you'll see content protection schemes instead, they are a lot more evil, and you don't want that, so shut up and let this pass!"

    He is of course right in that corps will be pushing content protection very hard, and I'd rather throw them a bone than have them do it.

    My main problem with this is that it is going to put research on different ways of paying artists to sleep, and therefore slow down progress. This professor isn't really very visionary, he can only see two options, and seems unwilling to realize that there may be more options ahead.

    Clearly, the model is to refund those who produce content. However everyone produce content these days, and consequently everyone should get a refund. My vote is against this scheme if I can't get my tax money back when I burn my thesis to a CD.


  • We've had this in Canada since last year, and it really hasn't made any difference.

    Heh. Yeah, right. Tell that to Sheila Copps [pch.gc.ca], the bitch who helped to put it in place. It's to help more inept musicians saturate Canada's airwaves, while talented Canadian musicians - who will prosper on their own without government help - promptly pick up and move to greener pastures in the United States.

    (See Alanis Morrissette, The Barenaked Ladies, Crash Test Dummies, Big Sugar, Maestro Fres Wes, SoulDecision, Choclair, Celine Dion, Sloan, ... Paul Anka?)

    Meanwhile, it's yet another tax to help to "level the playing field" so that the untalented can saturate our airwaves. To, effectively, make up for the lesser talent and ability of, for example, The Tragically Hip.

    I hope Sheila Copps gets inoperable colon cancer.

    However, I think that the people that set the levy realised that corporations were only out to save themselves... or the people were vocal enough that the amount chosen was really small.

    If I'm paying a tax that is auspiciously because I'm going to illegally copy something anyway, haven't I then paid for the right to copy it? Haven't I now paid the royalties that I owe, in order to make all the guilt-free CDs, for me and my friends, that I want to make? I think that could be a very interesting court challenge.

    In any event, I would consider us lucky.

    Oh yeah. Any luckier, and the Sunday afternoon tradition in Canada will be cutting up last week's Pravda [pravda.ru] for toilet paper.


  • But you HAVE paid for the right to copy CDs. For you and for friends. You have paid all the royalties you owe, and it would never make it to court because you didn't do anything illegal. Look it up for yourself if you want.

    If that's the case, that has to extend to data CDs, too.

    Which means that *if* I happen to have installed Windows 2000 on this computer, and *if* I did it only because I need to learn it so I can support it at work, and *if* it happens to be installed from a CD copy that was made on a disc that was covered under the media tax, *then* I should have no issues.

    I'm not saying I've done that, I'm only citing this as yet another protectionist and socialist scheme which has backfired. Because, of course, the government taxes blank media since the royalties aren't going to artists. However, it also becomes a tacit encouragement to make illegal copies. This is as hypocritical as a government that outlaws gambling yet still runs a state lottery.

    Gee, if I were an artist, I'd be sooooo glad that those wonderfully consequence-thinking socialists were looking out for me.

    A copyright tax on blank media is merely a way that the government can legalize piracy as long as they get the proceeds. Like a lottery is a way that the government can legalize gambling as long as they get the cash.

    Now, if the socialists hadn't taxed blank media, then a pirate couldn't argue that he'd paid his royalties, and therefore copyright law would remain fully enforceable.

    (For the record, my employer provided me with my copy of Windows 2000 Professional. But the example still holds.)

    Yup, I've got the scissors all sharpened up for Sunday afternoon's Pravda-shredding. As any pre-democracy Russian will tell you, the Wednesday edition of Pravda makes the best toilet paper. I don't know why, but when I use it to wipe, it's almost as cottony soft as Lenin's beard.


  • The best thing I ever saw about The Guess Who is that they made it big with NO CanCon laws. Ah well.

    I don't like them hugely, but I guess they must be good; exactly as you say, they made it without Canadian Content Laws or Sheila Copps.

    Ooh, Rush. I like Rush, and they made it without CanCon or Copps, too.

  • Agreed. While the k-whore itself may just be pandering to the tastes of the *average* moderator, the replies a typical k-whore generates can (and do) spark meaningful conversation, which is becoming quite a rarity on this site.
  • I appreciate your suggestion, kind sir, but I must respectfully decline. Not only am I trying to burn excess karma, but I would like to make the point that the Karma cap does nothing but promote trolling and crapflooding on this site.
  • Go to staples/compUSA/best buy or whatever office supply store is near you and look at the CD-R's. Look at the video games, and look at the audio CD's. They all say compact disc. Now do the same for the floppys/zip disks, superdisks. They all say disk. It's industry standard.
  • How do they plan on acurately figuring-out what artists get what?

    And if they do, will Jerry Lewis become richer than Bill Gates?
  • You obviously have an amazing literary and technical background in making your definitive statement. However, having been around since before optical media was even a thought in someone's mind, the terms 'disc' and 'disk' were used interchangeably. (And at this point, it sounds like that's longer than you've been around as well.) I am guessing many will continue to use either 'disc' or 'disk' in various situations. Your doctoral dissertation obviously did not get into enough depth to make that discovery.

    You just don't get it, do you?
    • disk is short for diskette, which is the traditional name for what are now called floppy disks.
    • Phillips own the trademark for "Compact Disc"s, and that's how they choose to spell it.

  • It was Petain who caved in to the Germans. Other people kept fighting the Germans after the surrender. Surely you must have heard of the French resistance lead by Charles Degaulle.

    If I recall correctly, the French heavily fortified the border with Germany, but the Germans went through Belgium, again (apparently Belgium is a road). Whoever decided not to fortify the border with Belgium was as much of a twit as Petain was. Though, if the border with Belgium was fortified, the Germans probably would have attacked somewhere else, or attacked by sea or something.


    "Homo sum: humani nil a me alienum puto"
    (I am a man: nothing human is alien to me)

  • Maybe I'm just a little too leftist but I'll take taxes over lawsuits anyday.

    Of course like too many liberals I may be naive in my thinking that any of this money will actually go to the intended recipients.....

  • In fact, that has been a common practice for tapes in Europe for decades. And it should work even better for CD-RWs.
  • Socialism cannot work, because it lacks an information feedback mechnism. Since humans fallible and are not omniscient, it means that resources not only will not, but cannot be assigned to each part of the economy according to its need.

    The profit mechanism, while imperfect, is the best such feedback mechanism ever developed to correct the inevitable miscalculations, producing a constant but lower level of wastage than either central planning or decentralized socialism can achieve.

    If you have an allocation and information mechanism that works better and can be used in a socialist system, I suggest you send it to the surviving socialist government of your choice immediately. In twenty years that country's people will be the wealthiest on Earth, as its economy will be the most efficient on Earth.
  • Sweeden is not socialist, despite the high taxes, extensive social welfare programs, and significant regulation. It is a free-market capitalist state with capital markets, contracts, profits, competition, and private ownership. Its system is fundamentally similar to that of Germany, Japan, or the U.S., despite a larger public sector.

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • This is an old arguement for Canadians, who have been paying premiums on media for (perhaps) a year now. (It may be longer, but I've clearly stopped paying attention...)

    The main criticism I have with these fees is not that it penalizes the innocent, it's that the money doesn't find its way to the artists anyway. And independent artists who are not beneficiaries of RIAA and MPAA payouts are penalized because their sole distribution method (pre-mp3, that is) has been blank cassettes and CD's. Now we have hard-drives and optical media devices which are going to have copy protection, which may close off even these mechanisms of promulgation. Put another way, Metalica and their like will get some money, but joe's band down the street get's nothing. The payouts are based (to my understanding) on record/tape/cd sales.

    Ultimately these fees, and the organizations who have demanded them are fundamentally not interested in art or preservation of income for artists, but it is a thinly veiled cash grab to offset the increasing volume of art-commerce done directly between consumer and producer. In short, the middle-men (and high-selling artists on their payroll who don't benefit from a strong indie scene) don't like being cut-out and so they are fighting back with international lobbying for national compensation.

    Fie! Fie on them!

  • And another one bites the dust... (Score:3)

    by Millennium ( 2451 ) on Monday January 15, 2001 @04:48PM (#505989)
    ...chalk up another one for The Bad Guys. The corporations have managed to get presumption of guilt into the legal system when their precious money's involved.

    This is one of those times I'm glad not to live in the EU. Of course, I somehow doubt it'll be too long until the US starts eyeing this, and then I'll be screwed either way.
    ----------

  • Casette Tapes (Score:3)

    by Aphelion ( 13231 ) on Monday January 15, 2001 @04:38PM (#505990) Homepage
    The U.S. does this already with casette tapes. It will only take a little bit more lobbying for Congress to extend this to optical media (CD-R, etc).

  • Re:Casette Tapes (Score:3)

    by the eric conspiracy ( 20178 ) on Monday January 15, 2001 @05:35PM (#505991)
    The U.S. does this already with casette tapes.

    So does Europe.

  • Re:this isn't the answer (Score:3)

    by QuantumG ( 50515 ) <qg@biodome.org> on Monday January 15, 2001 @04:54PM (#505992) Homepage Journal
    if the masses are breaking the law, why is it even a law? Even France is a democracy. France is a democracy right?

  • Re:www.revolution.com (Score:3)

    by 1010011010 ( 53039 ) on Monday January 15, 2001 @07:10PM (#505993) Homepage
    is there anyone who dosnt think that Capatalist Corporatism has gone too far?

    Not at this keyboard. Of course, I object to the term "Capitalism" being used that way. I think "Fascism" is a more accurate term. Or perhaps "Corporate Statism." But what we have is is definitely not capitalism -- taxing the users of products on the assumption that they are criminals, for the benefit of a specific group of people? Please. Take that back to Harrison Bergeron where you found it. The problem with using the term "capitalism" to describe a situation where the government takes away the rights/money/freedom on one group in order to give it to another and/or increase its own power is that, it will make people want "not capitalism," i.e., something like socialism or fascism -- systems that are, by definition, the government taking away the rights/money/freedom on one group in order to give it to another and/or increase its own power. I see it as a trap. What I want is more freedom, not more bondage. Corporate statism, socialism, fascism, communism -- all the collectivisms -- result in more bondage and less freedom.

    - - - - -

  • Re:www.revolution.com (Score:3)

    by 1010011010 ( 53039 ) on Monday January 15, 2001 @07:27PM (#505994) Homepage
    I guess Communism is beginning to look alot more appealing, eh? Imagine: State owned business (no monopolies screwing us)

    ... except, of course, the state, which runs those monopoly businesses.

    and a planned economy (what advantage do proprietary standards and IP have?)?

    Mmm... central planning. Where's the bread line? I'll get in now. Under a "planned economy," some people get to decide what the rest do, and they have the force of government coercion to make the proles "cooperate." That's "better?"

    For 50 years the Monied Elite in America have destroyed Socialist Ideals with a transparent campaign of propaganda

    This is almost the exact opposite of the actual situation. For the whole last century, the leaders of the U.S. have denounced "socialism" and "communism" while nurturing it here. Check out the Socialist Party Platform from the early 1900s. Notice how 100% of it is law in one form or another. The U.S. has a mixed economy, but vast sections of it are, in fact, government-controlled and even centrally planned in some cases. Very few markets are "free" in the U.S. Take banking and finance, for instance -- heavily regulated, with a central bank that has the power to define the value of the currency; the dollar is worth more or less depending on how the Fed inflates or deflates the money supply. Agriculture: almost totally government-controlled. They set prices, quotas and provide subsidies. They allow or disallow any particular thing from being produced or sold. Everything is licensed. Power: nearly 100% state-controlled, if not owned, monopolies. Health: largely overnment controlled, nad moreso every day. Since 1965, control has increased steadily. One day, the outright nationalization of health care will be announced. Right now, it's just controlled through medicare, medicaid, FICA, HMO regulations, and lawsuits. Witness the creeping control of government over TV, Radio, computers, the internet, and even political speech -- which is specifically protected by the consitution. Not that the constitution matters a whole lot; it's pretty much just the overheated and failing brakes on the busride to hell these days.


    - - - - -

  • Get your fair share (Score:3)

    by Pseudonym ( 62607 ) on Monday January 15, 2001 @05:32PM (#505995)

    If you're an independent artist (whether you've sold any works or not), petition or sue the government for your cut of the money. After all, this is to compensate artists, not labels.

  • (ot) misreading as code (Score:3)

    by Speare ( 84249 ) on Monday January 15, 2001 @06:21PM (#505996) Homepage Journal

    Of all the corrupt $WHOREING$ things western governments are doing right now, this has got to take the cake...

    Is it just me, or did anyone else read this in the parent, and think, "what kind of variable is WHOREING?"

  • Re:If you have to pay... (Score:3)

    by Kwikymart ( 90332 ) on Monday January 15, 2001 @05:53PM (#505997)
    from http://neil.eton.ca/copylevy.shtml [neil.eton.ca]

    Can I now legally copy audio CDs for my friends?

    The simple answer is NO, but you can legally copy your friend's audio CD for YOUR OWN use.

    To paraphrase the introduction to the Copyright Board's ruling:

    On March 19, 1998, Part VIII of the Copyright Act came into force. Until then, copying any sound recording for almost any purpose infringed copyright.

    Part VIII legalizes one such activity: copying of sound recordings of musical works onto recording media for the private use of the person who makes the copy.

    It does not matter whether you own the original sound recording (on any medium), you can legally make a copy for your own private use.

    To emphasize this point, endnote 4 of the Copyright Board's ruling says:

    Section 80 does not legalize (a) copies made for the use of someone other than the person making the copy; and (b) copies of anything else than sound recordings of musical works. It does legalize making a personal copy of a recording owned by someone else.

    Please think before you flame

  • Re:If you have to pay... (Score:3)

    by Kwikymart ( 90332 ) on Monday January 15, 2001 @04:58PM (#505998)
    Well, since we have the tax now in Canada, it is kinda legal to do this. We now have the right for casual copying. This means basically, I lend you any CD you want and you can copy it. I can also make copies for myself (duh). However, I cannot make copies for you, you physically have to make the copy.

    This is logical, because whats to stop people from just starting their own pirating business? It works nicely, people have the right to lend CDs out to friends and let them copy 'em. It may not seem like a lot, but it allows the music companies to actually distribute "their" music while giving consumers the rights they deserve with the content they purchased.

  • This is a very bad idea. And probably won't work. (Score:3)

    by dvk ( 118711 ) on Monday January 15, 2001 @04:52PM (#505999) Homepage
    USA, to the best of my knowledge, has been taxing blank audio cassetes that way. The difference is, most of those cassetes were used for copying songs off CDs or radio or other tapes.
    Hard drives *can* be used for pirating but are mostly used for other purposes, this is like taxing cars because some of them can be used as getaway vehicle in a bank robbery ;)

    Besides, with the margins they put on, it simply won't work, any neighbouring EU country will simply ship the hardware sans tax. Those socialist bastards[0] will simply tax their own sellers out of existance.

    [0] i spent 17 years under socialism... so i figure i got full right to use the term ;)

    -DVK

  • First it was "For the Childruuun" (Score:3)

    by lpontiac ( 173839 ) on Monday January 15, 2001 @05:13PM (#506000)
    Now it's For the Artists. Yet another sticker they can throw on anything to force laws past the public's scrutiny, on seemingly moral grounds.

  • Re:French Toast! (Score:3)

    by atrowe ( 209484 ) on Monday January 15, 2001 @04:41PM (#506001)
    And Timothy:

    It's spelled minidisc. 'disc' for optical media, and 'disk' for magnetic media. But then again, a professional journalist such as yourself working for a technology site would know that, wouldn't you?

  • Comment removed (Score:3)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Monday January 15, 2001 @05:31PM (#506002)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • Hard Drive tax (Score:4)

    by hmckee ( 10407 ) on Monday January 15, 2001 @04:57PM (#506003)
    What really bugs me about this, and should probably really make the French angry is that this tax is going on hard drives, too. The article says HDD will be taxed from US$86-144, and DVD-RAM about US$8.29. I'm guessing a CD-ROM would be around US$1-2. I don't how many HDD the French buy, but record companies must be excited about this.

    If I lived in France, you can bet my hard drive would be filled with Metallica MP3's.

  • black market (Score:4)

    by Dr. Tom ( 23206 ) <tomh@nih.gov> on Monday January 15, 2001 @04:55PM (#506004) Homepage
    Great, a black market in computer hardware!
    The world is getting more SciFi all the time.
    Smuggling cigarettes is boring anyway.

    "Hey, you! Is that an IDE interface in your pocket!?"
    "It's for personal use, man, don't hassle me!"

    "Tell me, do you use LINUX?" "That's none of
    your business, man."

    "Ho ho, what's THIS? A bag of blank CDR disks!
    You're coming with me, son." "No, wait, those
    belong to my brother, man, I never even saw them
    before."

  • www.revolution.com (Score:4)

    by SubtleNuance ( 184325 ) on Monday January 15, 2001 @05:40PM (#506005) Journal
    When did our governments get in the business of collecting taxes for products specifically because their use may or may not cause some industry money?

    Whats next? You pay a tax on bicylces because it may cost the Auto Industry revenue?
    You pay a tax on Beer because it may cost the Win Industry revenue?

    Of all the corrupt $WHOREING$ things western governments are doing right now, this has got to take the cake -- so, is there anyone who dosnt think that Capatalist Corporatism has gone too far?

    I guess Communism is beginning to look alot more appealing, eh? Imagine: State owned business (no monopolies screwing us) and a planned economy (what advantage do proprietary standards and IP have?)? Looks like the 2 Major Ills of the /. community are fundementally resolved when employing other economic systems - too bad we've already lost our governments to these $WHORES$. I guess we will have to take it up the duff and wait for the revolution. They always come. This last 200 years _could_ have lead to a different outcome, but alas we havnet learnt anything. Replacing our Monarchs and Priests with CEO's and Monied Elite leads to the same problems... McCarthy sure did us a favour -- polluted the American psyche so badly it is going to take 100 years to recover from the "Red" scare.

    I wonder if America(Americans) realize that they have been BrainWashed - I mean that very literally. For 50 years the Monied Elite in America have destroyed Socialist Ideals with a transparent campaign of propaganda. This conditioning has led America(Americans) to trust, believe and have faith in whatever dogma is spewed in the interest of Business(TM).

    How sad - any hope to build a civilization where humanity can grow and achieve has been replaced with greed, selfishness and consumerism. It truely sickens me.

    I wonder why people cling to the present Corporatist economic system - is a Government bought and sold to/by TransNational Corporate interest not enough?

    Does anyone need any more evidence?

  • Comment removed (Score:4)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Monday January 15, 2001 @04:54PM (#506006)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • If you have to pay... (Score:5)

    by Azog ( 20907 ) on Monday January 15, 2001 @04:42PM (#506007) Homepage
    What I always wonder about this is - If I buy some blank CD's, and pay an extra fee which goes to the distribution companies and (maybe) artists that I am possibly copying, then shouldn't it be legal for me to actually copy their stuff?

    If I get taken to court, couldn't I just say, "Your Honor, I paid a fee as part of the purchase price of the blank media to compensate them for copying their content. If that doesn't make it legal for me to copy their content, then it should be illegal for them to charge me extra for the blank media, right?"


    Torrey Hoffman (Azog)

  • If it's bad, we need more of it?!?! (Score:5)

    by tbo ( 35008 ) on Monday January 15, 2001 @09:02PM (#506008) Journal
    Let me get this straight--government in France does something stupid, and you use this as evidence that corporations are evil? This is a recurring theme on Slashdot--government does something evil, at the behest of a corporation, and we blame corporations for wanting something in their own interest, not government for caving in. This is completely ass-backwards.

    The solution to these kinds of stupid laws (DMCA, UCITA, etc.) is not socialism/communism and more government. It's campaign finance reform so that nobody can buy off politicians, and less government. We have to enforce separation of government and corporate interests. If corporations are disbarred from forming high-powered lobby groups or making huge "soft money" campaign contributions, their power over government will evaporate.

    Remember, without government co-operation, the worst a corporation can do is make crappy products you don't have to buy. It's the government that has the power of the gun, and thus the government that people should fear most.

  • oh god, do we have to say this again? (Score:5)

    by legLess ( 127550 ) on Monday January 15, 2001 @04:43PM (#506009) Journal
    Problems:
    • Assumption of criminality: "Pay this tax, just in case you're a criminal." This is ridiculous. Paying car insurance is one thing, because no one ever plans to have an accident, but taxing people just in case they decide to do something illegal. Bullshit.
    • Who will it help? Who is this supposed to benefit? The artists? Bullshit again - they're already getting screwed, just like they've always been, and will continue to be. Not that every musician is exploited, but very many are, and they won't see a cent from this.
    • Business model. At the core, this is government levying taxes on a population to prop up an outdated business model. If real competition were present in the industry, companies would seek to improve their business plans rather than ask government for a handout. It's not my job to compensate fools for failed business practices: stupidity should be painful.
    Sigh. This has all been said before, though.

    pessimistic legs signs off



    question: is control controlled by its need to control?
    answer: yes

Slashdot Top Deals

E = MC ** 2 +- 3db

Close