Yahoo! Threatens French-Language Site Over Parody 181
Morph3us writes "Here's some more info on the cease and desist letter from Yahoo! inc. to the French-language weblog pssst! Actually, what Yahoo! INC. doesn't like in this parody is the fact that it is using the actual logo of Yahoo!, with the single addition of the word "Québec" in a very similar font. Also, the search engine used in the parody was searching in a porn site database. Both of these facts could lure visitors into thinking that Yahoo! inc. was associated with the site and was offering a porn site search engine. Pssst doesn't have any power on the site Yahoo! Quebec and even on the link to it in Pssst, because it was posted by an anonymous contributor (although I guess they could delete it from the database). This contributor is also the author of the site and of the first message posted on Slashdot about this story. The author of the site sent me an e-mail today mentionning he had changed the search engine to seek in the Vatican's web site ("from one extreme to the other" as he told me!). He also plans to modify the logo to Youhou! instead of Yahoo! But there's no intention of removing the site at the moment. "
Re:No parody, but a cheap way to get more hits! (Score:1)
who cares (Score:1)
links to other yahoos racist (Score:1)
Translation to english of MMedium article (Score:1)
Re:the problem (Score:1)
It doesn't hurt to start there. I maintain a Porsche-oriented web site. We had, in one of our sections, the Porsche crest being 'tightened' by a crescent wrench.
The offended logo had been on that page since 1997, but when I received a nice letter (no sarcasm, it was a 'please do this or call if you have questions' sort), I altered the logo. He sent me a thank you letter and everyone went about their day.
And for the legal people out there, since it was on a page (which at several long stretches of times has been the most popular Porsche web site out there with several Porsche executives being regular viewers) for over 2 years before they noticed it, we might've had an argument. But it was such a reasonable request. He wasn't impolite, why should we be?
-Derek
Re:ITS design and function (Score:1)
Yep, I failed english class and mispell words within poor grammer. But you know what? It doesn't matter, because my parents were rich, I've been promoted, and now I'm your boss. I own you and your dog. I was a hippie, but I cut my hair. You should too. That's why they promoted me.
Characteristics of Québec French (Score:1)
I happen not only to be a linguist, but also one whose roommate is a French Canadian linguist. So although I'm by no means an expert on Québec French, here's a few characteristics. (Many of these I have represented orthographically, copying the way I see them written down in lyrics from French Canadian records).
There's a few more function words in Québec that are used differently.
There's a lot other differences, including for example, vocabulary. But when it comes to the syntax, Québecois is not very different from other spoken French varieties.
My roommate has told me that, in his experience, it takes a Frenchperson about 2 weeks to get used to the pronunciation.
As for other things, Québecois rock music is really good. Anyone curious should try Les Colocs, or Mara Tremblay, or Fred Fortin.
---
Re:Quebecois is not a language (Score:1)
I really think that the theoretical status of the language/dialect distinction in linguistics in nowhere near solid. It is not uncommon at all to find a language gradating into others. If you start at Paris, go through the local French dialects, pass over the non-French languages of France (Franco-Provençal, Occitan), into the Romance dialects of western Switzerland and northeastern Italy, and then go further south in Italy, you will find that there is actually a gradation from French into Italian; that is, that people from adjacent regions speak mutually intelligible, yet somewhat different, language systems, and at the ends of the scale you find what we take to be entirely different lanaguage. The same can be said of Dutch and German, IIRC. So I'd go with the old linguists' joke about a language being a dialect with an army and a navy...
Also, from first person reports I've been told (my roommate is a French Canadian linguist), the French, when initially confronted with Québecois, do not understand it well at all. However, one gives them two weeks, and they adapt.
---
Re:I'm impressed by your insight. (Score:1)
Why exactly should there be a law saying when one can and cannot use a particular language in the first place?
Find an American... (Score:1)
Out and about in a boat
When the American stops laughing, ask him if he can tell that you have an accent.
:^)
Re:Find an American... (Score:1)
awt 'n abawt 'n a boht
Canadians use a labialised vowel in all three words (their lips are pursed.) Most Americans only use a labial for 'boat'.
I, however, am a mostly biglossic Canadian, raised in both countries, so which I use depends on how unamerican I feel that day.
Re:the problem (Score:1)
Totally different situations anyway, IMO.
this was a test (Score:1)
--
http://www.beroute.tzo.com
Re:Grammer is hardly important here! (Score:1)
The reason this bothers me is that it shows that people can't spell the possessive pronoun "its" correctly (not just on Slashdot, but everywhere).
I get annoyed when people do things incorrectly. That doesn't mean I need to grow up or get out more.
Anyway, since the previous post I've come across this [escape.com], which shows that this error is not a such a new thing (as you might recall, that was what my post centered on).
--
Re:ITS design and function (Score:1)
Perhaps it's my imagination, but I don't think mixing up "it's" and "its" was this common before Slashdot became popular. Now I see it all over the web. Could it be that just a few nerds who failed English (or should have) are responsible for this?
Here's an interesting experiment: Get someone capable to proofread every Slashdot article for a few weeks and eliminate these errors from the articles (just the articles, not the discussion). Observe the effect on discussions. Will usage of "its" increase as fewer people type "it's" in its place?
Hell, don't observe anything; just proofread the fucking articles!
--
Re:From a Quebecois, why it IS parody: (Score:1)
Yahoo needs to get a clue.
Re:Quebec (links to other yahoos racist) (Score:1)
-------
j'ai jamais vu une thread aussi bizarre sur slashdot! ahahaha!
and now, for those who claims that parti quebecois is racist, etc.. oh boy. we often get the label of "racist" society.. it's true that there is racism in our society, but i would say that we are much more tolerant than the usa or france..
i am a separatist, that doesn't make me an english-hater. not at all, it's only about the simple fact that we are different people so we want to run our buisness our way. we want to protect our culture. fuck, we're only 2% of the north american population! and it's decreasing slowly year after year..
one of the reason why i am a separatist, is that the english canada doesn't even make a bit of effort to undersand us. for example, i'm sure most of the english canadians are quite supportive of the irish opposed to the brittish, or the tibetans versus the chinese.. but hey, how do you think our situation is different?
in 1990, there was a canadian referendum about a new federal constitution propososal (l'entente de charlottetown). the result was that quebec said "no, that's not enough for us" and english-canada answered "no, it's too much for them"..
canada just doesn't work for us, we would be better on our own, and they would be better on their own too. all those fights will end when a) we will be separated or b) we will be assimilated. i personally prefer a).
i very much understand the fear of the english-speaking population of quebec (they're mainly in montreal) about what would happen if we separate.
but, i am personally very glad to have english friends. i am very happy to see all the nice english girls when i get drunk at the mad hatter (pub on maisonneuve ouest).
but those that don't even want to learn a bit of french, those that want to start fights by calling us fucking frogs, well they're better leaving for ontario.
vive le quebec libre!
YouHou doesn't mean Yahoo! (Score:1)
attention. In English you would say "Wake up"
or "Look here"
I fail to see the connection with Yahoo except
from an ignorant who has no clue about other
languages.
The folks at Yahoo will end up looking like
complete idiots.
For those of you would would like to check
some other French Canadian humor check my
web site under the humor section. I made
a French Canadian adaptation of the
site of "The dumb sons of America"
It's called "Les tatas d'Amérique"
It got the attention of the Swiss Radio and TV
a while back, perhaps because of the fact that
it is in French and in the United States.
Here is my Home page [netonecom.net]
This is good old American humor with a bit
of French Canadian humor.
I do provide a link to the original site hosted
by a friend of mine.
Re:the problem (Score:1)
Re:qnd translation (Score:1)
Whaddya mean, p0rn??? (Score:1)
http://search.vatican.va
(No, "VA" isn't for Virginia!!!)
-- ----------------------------------------------
Vive le logiciel... Libre!!!
Latest news: (Score:1)
Merci.
Notice: psst managers got a cease-and-desist bla bla bla. A copy has been sent to the author.
Psst cannot do anything since they don't control the site, hosted at ALTERN.ORG. The only thing Psst did was to link to the parody.
This will be signified to Yahoo lawyers by official channels. No more comment will be made.
-- ----------------------------------------------
Vive le logiciel... Libre!!!
Translation of the Multimédium Page (Score:1)
-------------
Montreal January 12, 2000 - The Quebecan web page psst! was told to cease and desist by the american company, Yahoo! For having pretentously been the author of the parody Yahoo Québec! The head writer of Multimédium, Dominic Fugère, and one named Mathieu, whose names appear on the bottom of the parody, have also been cited in the cease and desist.
The Yahoo! Québec site, a parody of the famous american portal Yahoo!, was created several months ago by Jean-Hugues Roy, an animator of the show Branché for Radio-Canada. As soon as the site was put up, psst! had put a link in its direction.
Shockingly, this was not discussed in the cease and desist and still was not up to date as we have seen this evening. "I will start by reading the cease and desist [letter] and going to review the laws on cybersquatting and other laws on trademarks beeefore deciding if I'm going to take down the site." He said. "I might modify the search engine and the logo graphics."
In his parody, Jean Hugues Roy used the exact logo of Yahoo! To which he added the word "Québec". The search engine of the parody page, he changed the database with a list of pornographic sites. These are two details which have truly excacerbated the susceptibility of Yahoo! Inc. Excepts of the cease and desist, sent by the law firm, Smart & Biggar of Ottawa, confirm this.
"I thought that Yahoo! would be the last important company to have a sense of humor," affirms Jean-Hugues Roy. "There are many parodies of Yahoo! Some of them even use the same search engine!"
Clément Laberge, who is responsible for the psst! web page, to whom the cease and desist was sent to primarily, has until next Monday, the 17th of January, to tell Yahoo's lawyers that he has taken down the site, something that he cannot do himself, as he has absolutely no control over the site.
Careful with those "!" (Score:1)
I don't know these "!" are called in Canada, but in poor back-assward America we refer to them as "exclamation marks" not "periods". If you would like to terminate a sentance it is advisable to use the "period".
BTW, is your country still run by giant, crack-smoking rabbits? I miss Toronto.
Why Babel Fish is suffering (Score:1)
I'm impressed by your insight. (Score:1)
You're right; all these signs point to a place intolerant of anything non-french/quebecois.
*sigh* (Score:1)
I really have to learn to use the preview button. Sorry about that.
Re:I'm impressed by your insight. (Score:1)
Those laws are there only for businesses and government; any individual may use, write, speak any language he/she damn well pleases. Had you tried to find out what those laws were (I even named them in my previous post; you could have asked for more details or done a web search, by the way), you would have known that.
As for why these laws exist? Well, we like speaking, reading and writing in french; this is the best way to insure that our children and grandchildren still will do so. I want the kids I hope I'll have one day to be able to appreciate Moliere as well as Shakespeare. You may not like it or agree with it, but that's the choice our society made via democratic means. If you don't believe me, look at the participation rate in major elections and referendums in this province. Here, anything below 75% participation is considered abnormaly low. Usually, around 80% of the voters use their right to vote in elections; that figure jumps to 90%+ in referendums. We believe in democracy here and actually participate in it; so when these laws are passed and the party that was in power is re-elected, it means that it was the people's choice.
In other words, these laws exist because the majority of people in Quebec want them.
Re:Wrong target but legitimate claim from Yahoo (Score:1)
pssst, this site is a test to find out how long it will take Yahoo! to exercise its rights, as others did before.
Results: from the original publication (3/11/99) to the legal threats (12/1/00), it took 70 days. Bravo!
most tolerant city (Score:1)
I do hear and read it's a nice city, though.
(OT)Need for (-1, Pedantic) rating (Score:1)
This kind of grammatical nitpicking, along with all the millenium/millennium 2000/2001 crap we've had recently, has convinced me that slashdot needs a (-1, Pedantic) moderation category.
Hard Translation (Score:1)
specially the ones that no automated translator would be able to...
-Plus catholique que ...
Unterminated local expression (plus catholique que le pape)(more catholic then the pope) meaning being too stiff, too by the book then logic calls.
-Enwouaille!
Hurry Up, Go, Do something, wake-up!
-Des Cossins en masse!...
More stuff then you need.
-Reguines
stuff
-Patentes a Gosses
stuff that you can't make anything out of...
Nains de jardins
lawn dwarf (in plaster), the summum of kitsh stuff.
Alouette
Making reference to a child song.... meaning something like "Again and again"
Placotage avec du monde
babling with people
Kesse
What
Check tes bidous
Check your bucks (money)
Espionne tes voisins
Spy on your neighbors (it is good french, but it's too funny so I translated anyway)
Magasinage
Shopping
Rumeurs et bitcheries
Rumors and bitching
Demetan
Reference to a 20 years old saturday morning dull animated serie where every story was a sad one.
Fait-tu beau?
Is it sunny outside?
Allez hop! Cascade
a reference to a publicity that itself made a reference to an actor (Belmondo)
Estie que ca va mal
the (nasty word) hit the fan
Shirley Theroux contre-attaque
A local hasbeen (oftenly parodized) counter attack!
I can't pretend anymore that I'm working while doing this..... at least you have a couple of jokes translated...
Re:Careful with those "!" (Score:1)
And excuse me for using exclamation marks!!!!!!!
Do they really bother you so much you had to post about them ?
Re:qnd translation (Score:1)
"Branche" is a TV show, Radio-Canada is the name of the station wich is owned by the "state"(in a matter of speaking). They also own an english version of the channel CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Channel), and several Radio stations accross canada!!
Strangely enough, he WASNT mentionned in the threatening letter from Yahoo!.
And he said, I thought Yahoo! was the FIRST(not last) company around with a sense fo humour.
The rest is a pretty accurate translation!!
French and english might be really close to eacdh other, but most things cant be translated litteraly or else you'll come up with opposites!!
Re:links to other yahoos racist (Score:1)
Because you dont seem to have a grasp of the political situation here!
If there are racist statments, these are attributed to the author and have nothing to do with the majority of french speaking quebecers.
We arent intolorent to foreigners, have you ever been to montreal ?? its the most cosmopolitain city in Canada next to Toronto.
You should explain where the resentment comes from!! so the Americains can relate!! The french where the first colonists, then the english came in, took over and asked us to live in our corner and shutup. Also tried to assimilate us and get use to give up french and our laws. (our laws except for Criminal Law are still napoleon based).
Now National front is a party (Partie Quebecois), they are for the seperation of Quebec and all, but its NOTHING like the fascist parties in France, not even close, they are not racists, they want to seperate too keep their cultur and langue etc... (now Im dont agree with this party, but Im just clearing things up).
The only reason there is still alot of resentment towards english speaking "canadians" (not the word canadian, not ALL english ppl) is because the Parie Quebecois is very strong in the BOONIES, far away regions all places except montreal. So they prey on the ignorance and lack of education of those ppl. (Im not saying they are all dumb farmers or anything, just that they were born into the party and thats all they know).
I hope this clears his statement up, he has no idea what he's talking about when he speaks of french canadians, he should be moderated down.
Re:Dialects (Score:1)
The distinction between Québec French and France French, I think, is identical to the distinction between American English and British English. In both cases, you have a nearly identical syntax with a lot of regional slang and expressions. In many cases, you also have different definitions for words. Both in American English and Québec French, the language has evolved by being separated geographically, but still kept in contact, with the country of origin.
A Parisian will give a blank stare to a Québecois if the Québecois speaks fast and uses a lot of slang, the same way a Brit would probably double-take if he heard a Texan spitting out words filled with colloquial expressions.
Hope this clears it up... I certainly don't think Québec French is a Creole. For starters, Québec French evolved from the whole France French, just in parallel. I hadn't thought about the Québecois/American English parallel before, but I think it fits the distinction perfectly.
Of course, the Brits are well-aware of American expressions and accents, whereas the French don't know Québec that well. The other distinction is that American English is considered proper, whereas Québec French is considered vulgar, and France French is taught in schools and used in movies. It's rather pathetic, really; I wish Québec would obsess a little less on its language.
Re:Quebecois is not a language (Score:1)
Sorry, didn't expect the nitpicks. One day, I will learn. :)
What I should have meant is, the dilemma in Québec is whether the usage of Québecois is legitimate and should be allowed and perhaps enforced by public schools, or banned and fought. There's a lot of people who say that people speaking in Québecois come across as having a poor education and low intellect. Sad, but true. And it's not uncommon to see people who went to private colleges speak with a faux Parisian accent (for instance, without any diphtongs - 'tsip' vs 'tip'), trying to show off as having a better education.
On the business front, people will use Québecois among themselves in a company, but if they're meeting with important people, they will be careful of how they speak, and try to convey a more 'international' (translation: understandable by the Parisians) French.
So: yeah, I know it's a dialect. Whether it should be accepted as such, or fought against, is the question. I personally think it's totally ridiculous to link use of slang to education, and that people who combat Québecois so vehemently can only be called 'anal retentive'.
Re:From a Quebecois, why it IS parody: (Score:1)
Rather, it's due to the fact that Québec French and France French evolved in parallel for a few hundred years. As such, they both evolved in different directions, and retained different aspects of Middle French. You'll find some aspects of Middle French in Québec French, such as the use of 'toé' and 'moé' instead of 'toi' and 'moi'. That's typically Medieval. But to say Québec French is identical to Middle French spoken in the 16th Century isn't true.
Re:Dialects (Score:1)
I would say, under that approach, that Québecois is definitely a dialect and not a creole. Québecois is definitely a direct descendent of French, and French and Québecois can communicate perfectly. Sure, there is a bit of that going on since Québec is part of a majorly English-speaking country, and right next to the US. That comes in the form of anglicisms, where either 1) English words are used in a perfectly French context, or 2) perfectly French words are used with an American twist.
Example 1: To say somebody is weird, Québecois from Montréal will say 'Il est fucké'. Literally, 'He is fucked', but 'fucké' is used to mean 'weird'.
Example 2: Québecois say 'Tomber en amour', literally, 'To fall in love'. The French say, 'Être en amour', but not 'Tomber en amour', which is a direct theft from the English, and the French give us a weird look.
Still, I'd say Québecois is definitely a dialect.
Children in the sandbox throwing sand. (Score:1)
My god they act like children. "No, you can't use that URL, thats my name! I'm gonna go tell the patent office!"
Shit, get a grip, you couldn't posibly lose as much money if these people keep their name's and URL's as you are spending on courts and blood-sucking lawers (offense meant to all the lawers out there) trying to make them stop. I'm not bitter...Really I'm not:)
Re:As another linguist... (Score:1)
It's interesting you mention this, because all the sources I have read, plus personal observation, indicate that there is very little that would allow a casual English speaker to differentiate the standard western Canadian dialect(s) from SAE. Personally, as a native of the prairies, I find it difficult to notice any phonological differences (register excepted) between my dialect and that preferred of American television anchors. The only thing that comes to mind is that most SAE speakers I've heard tend to pronounce "catch" as /k&tS/, whereas most (though not all) speakers from Regina say /kEtS/. Perhaps, as someone with a background in dialectology, you are able to more readily pick up on such differences; I still maintain that the average American speaker would not be able to identify most Canadians from west of Ottawa based on their speech patterns alone.
Regards,
Re:Quebecois is not a language (Score:1)
Actually, the difference between the two has nothing to do with diphthongs. In Québecois, [ts] is an affricate allophone of /t/ which is substituted for the predominant allophone, [t], when it occurs before /i/ (and possibly other vowels; it's been a long time since I've watched the French CBC). At the same time, /i/ is lowered to /I/ (a transformation I had neglected to mention in my original post but which, thankfully, another gentleman corrected in a reply). How's that for nitpicking? ;)
Regarding your main point, though, yes, I do believe it is ridiculous that some dialects among many of a language must be looked down upon as vulgar. This goes double for Quebec; if the sovereigntists are so adamant that they are special and unique because they have their own language, why are they so reluctant to speak it? Language is not immutable; even if the powers that be were successful in forcing everyone in Quebec to use Parisian French, it wouldn't stay that way for long. Besides, Parisian French, I'm led to believe, has a lot more English loan words than does Québecois. Lucien Bouchard and the language police probably wouldn't be too happy. "Monsieur, you are under arrest for using English too prominently on your storefront sign." "That's not English; it's Parisian French! :P"
Regards,
Re:Find an American... (Score:1)
Ok... /au?n@bau?n@bot/. Now you say it.
Regards,
Quebecois is not a language (Score:1)
Speaking as a theoretical linguist, Québecois is not a language, but a dialect of French. Parisian French is also a dialect of French. The two dialects, while they have somewhat different pronunciation and vocabulary, are still mutually intelligible.
The origin of Québecois has absolutely no bearing on whether or not it is a "true" language, whatever you mean by that. The next time some Parisian language snob tries to tell you otherwise, perhaps you'd like to counter with the argument that European French dialects are obiously bastardized versions of Latin born of lack of rigor and education. (Ditto for Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, Romanian, and a host of lesser-known languages.)
All this talk of language prestige, though, has me wondering why the elementary schools in Canada teach the children Parisian French rather than Québecois. (At least, it happened to me... I distinctly remember being told that "type" was pronounced as /tip/, as it is in France, and not /tsip/, as in Quebec.) Even if Québecois is less dignified, wouldn't it be more advantageous to the children to teach them to speak as the locals rather than the foreigners? In English, England's RP dialect ("received pronunciation" or Queen's English) generally carries more prestige than Canada's SAE ("standard American English"), yet the Canadian schools never taught me to speak with an English accent.
Note to South Park fans: By and large, English-speaking Canadians don't have accents which are perceptably different from the common dialect of Americans (SAE). The vowel raising ("aboat" or "aboot" instead of "about") is a phenomenon unique to the east coast, and is indicative of that region's Scottish origins.
Regards,
"Do You BooHoo?" - (link to different parody) (Score:1)
Somehow, I don't think Tim Koogle would approve of the use of his image in the manner that it is
incorporated...
YAHOO AND DESPAIR ANNOUNCE PLANS TO LAUNCH BOOHOO!, A SPECIALIZED PORTAL AND BRAND FOR THE MISERABLE
SANTA CLARA, CA - August 13, 1999 - Yahoo! Inc. (Nasdaq: YHOO), the world's most popular internet portal, and Despair, Inc., the world's worst Internet company, today announced a joint-venture agreement to launch a specialized portal and brand for the miserable.
The specialty portal, called BooHoo! (http://www.boohoo.com), would offer a branded network of comprehensive information, communication and shopping services to congenitally unhappy Internet users.
FULL ARTICLE [despair.com]
Perversion of Trademark (Score:1)
Trademarks grant nothing more than a right to operate a buisness under that name. If you're scared about the ever lengthening copyright term, follow this link [lawnewsnetwork.com].
It summarizes a case about The Three Stooges. The copyright has expired on the Stooges long ago and they are in the public domain, but the former copyright holders are attempting to go after anyone using the Three Stooges for trademark violation! Luckily, a 30-second clip appearing in a movie was deemed not infringe on the trademark. However, whether those selling Stooges T-shirts are violating trademark laws has yet to be decided. Believe it or not, the lawyers interviewed are split on whether placing these public domain characters on T-shirts is legal!
That looks about right. (Score:1)
The question for me is: Did Yahoo go overboard? A cease and dissist order seems a bit strong for an inital contact (if this it what it was)... Maybe they should've contacted the site first via more civilized channels.
Jay
Belgian History (Score:1)
I would really like to know what kind of "long and disgusting history of being horrible to people of other races" does Belgium have...
Indeed Belgium had its Congo... And any other European nation had colonies back then ! Its not like we were the only ones. Not to say it was right to do it, but the connection you're trying to imply doesn't hold when any country has the same kind of history.
And let me remind you that Belgium didn't put Indians into reservations. Neither did we have slaves in our coton fields !
And finally, there's one thing I think can be said about Begium and Belgians, but not about many others : we know how to make fun of ourselves, we have a lot of self-humor. Unlike, e.g., the Americans and the French.
"Racist" humor not that racist (Score:1)
In europe people will more easily make fun of other folks, including jokes based on "race" (there are no such things as human "racex" anyway), sex, age, country... We see it as second degree, and there's no big deal with that. Just like the other Belgian guy, I LOVE it !
Now I think that avoiding this humor but not doing anything to solve the problems that hide behing is hypocrisy (spell?). There ARE misunderstandings and tensions between different ethinc groups living together. Humor is a way to let the pressure go.
Once you're really comfortable with people, then you'll start making jokes about them with no offense intended. The best "negro" jokes I know come from a Congolese friend of mine, and I know of a Jew who'd tell you the most funny things about Jews.
To conclude, the kind of humor I like best is auto- (or self-)derision. Making fun of yourself is actually quite funny...
Pardon my French (offtopic) (Score:1)
je crois bien que je ne pourrais pas faire aussi bien si j'essayais d'en faire une...
It's been a while, my French is getting rusty
Re:Not the authors? (Score:1)
psst, this site is an experiment to see how long it will be before Yahoo takes advantage of its rights like others have done before them.
Results:From the original posting [to the Web] (Nov. 3, 1999) to the actual cease and desist letter (Jan. 12, 2000) it took them 70 days Bravo!
Neanmoins, votre traduction etait pas mal... je crois bien que je ne pouvais pas faire aussi bien si j'essayerais d'en faire une d'anglais en francais
NB:pas d'accents sur ces clavier americans...
Re:Languages.... (Score:1)
The UK education system really doesn't put much emphasis on foreign languages at school, and you get very complacent when all the media you are exposed (pop music, tv, computer stuff) is in English. On the one hand it's a great and easy advantage (you never have to try and learn another language until once in a blue moon you are confronted with something like the Yahoo-Quebec joke) but on the other hand this English dominance makes English speakers a lot more lazy than other people who are forced to deal with the English language dominance.
It's quite funny how upset some people in the UK have got now that Mac has decided not to support UK English anymore but only go with "International" (i.e. USA ) English...
who decides "racist"? (Score:1)
Or would it be fine for white people in America to call Afro-Americans 'niggers' because the white name-calling people thought it was funny?
(I am not suggesting all the language used in the parody is racist, just some is not exactly going to win friends and I find some of it offensive).
Re:links to other yahoos racist (Score:1)
of me. Here in the Netherlands we have some
racists to, but luckilly not enough to even
give them one seat in parlement.
I hope it stays that way.
I don't have experience with Quebecois, but
some french i've met can be quite chauvinistic/
francocentric/whatever.
Now back to the subject:
The site looks to me like some sick humor
(like calling all asian sites chineese)
Its intent is obviously humorous at second glance.
But still i think they shouldn't look so
much like Yahoo!
At first you do think you're at a Yahoo! site.
Adriaan Renting
P.S. I read/speak/write Dutch/English/German/French
reasonably well, and to a lesser extent
Sweedish, Italian and Spanish.
Does that make me septolingual ?
Re:From a Quebecois, why it IS parody: (Score:1)
Let's see (Score:1)
How many languages do YOU speak?
(Hmm, why do I think i won't get an answer on this post
Re:links to other yahoos racist (Score:1)
If you go by the history of Quebec (and pure&simple observation), you'll find that we've always been a very multicultural province. Of course, other countries, other ways of living and by that, we've named (and been named) many races with pejorative names. By that, I submit american people often said that Canadians were fascists because of the many many gov't paid social securities & services. It's only an example to say that by calling other peoples names, it's not always something very serious and shouldn't be considered so.
Also, to continue by that argument (and moving toward real racism), I personally find that there are two kind of (what's the latest politically correct thing?) "dark skin-complexion people", the blacks (which are nice and I have many very good friends of) and niggers (which are the ones I would put to jail), same thing as there's white ppl and white trash, or [insert other examples here]. And it's not because I'm using the term "nigger" that I'm racist, it's only the pejorative term for that race, as defined by our current society and if someone does something really really bad to me, sorry to use a pejorative term for that particular person! I don't include anyone else than that guy/girl.
To apply this to the current site, the terms used by the guy who wrote the site are pejorative, but it's also a satyrical and parody site so what do you expect? It's not meant to be mean. Even more so when you know that the inspiration for a few of the thing in the site came from the movie Elvis Gratton, a very big satyrical french movie.
OK, I'm almost going off topic so let's go back. Multiculturalism. Hmmm.. Yeah, it's not a big secret that many US movies have scenes taken in Montreal or Quebec. It's natural since there are many places that look exactly like their [insert europe country here] counterpart, but closer to the States.
About asian people, many many are studying at McGill university in here, there's a good community for Chinese and Japanese people, I know of a few Korean people, and so on.
Now, the language question... Aaah... The good ol' language question. It's always the same thing! When I go to the US, I don't even think ever so slightly about talking french there. Would I go to Japan, I would try to learn at least the basic skills of Japanese. Why do people coming here think that EVERYONE speaks a perfect english? It's not true. Same thing apply if you go to any of the other Canada's provinces - try to speak french and they'll laugh you out.
Sometimes, people are only able to speak a little bit of english, ever so slightly.
Finally, the facism question. Yeah. I admit the french tendancy is to be much more to the left with social democratic tendancies. But what do you expect in a world that is going completely crazy with money and industries, crushing the poor ol' people. I still prefer that to having to pay to breathe (laugh, but if it continues to go more and more in the extreme, I do think it would eventually happen).
It seems you confuse facism and all it's extremist violence with a moderated sense of social equity and services. -- To prove it, just think of the French Resistance. Yep, in France, they may vote for a "facist" group, but it's not for extremism, it's for what they have to offer to the general population.
Have a nice day
Mike
Re:Languages! (Score:1)
As he said (quoting gods-only-know-who), a language is just a dialect with an army and a navy.
: Fruitbat :
Re:Dialects (Score:1)
Suppose you kidnap a hundred Texans, a hundred Parisians (that's Paris in France, not Paris in Texas) and a hundred Klingons, and put them all to work in the chocolate mines on Planet X. Presuming there are none among the kidnapees who speak any language but their own, sooner or later you will find they develop a pidgin -- the Texan learns to say "merde" and the Parisian learns to say "Qu'vatlh", and so on.
So, a Klingon lad trying to pick up a Parisian lass may suggest "Soir - me - tu - sleep-a?" (Night (Fr) me (Eng) you (Fr) sleep (Eng) [question-suffix] (Kl)?) It's nothing much more than a string of words with a tiny bit of grammar. That's a pidgin.
Eventually the slaves interbreed (this being a Star Trek universe, it's almost inevitable!). Their children are taught a bit of their parents' language(s) and a lot of the pidgin that's grown up.
So, a Klingon-Parisian lad of the second generation trying to pick up a Texan-Parisian lass may suggest "Ce soir me-DaQ tu sleep-a?" (This night (Fr) with (Kl) me (Eng) you (Fr) sleep (Eng) [question-suffix] (Kl)?) Note how the grammar has evolved; this is no longer a string of words, but actually has a structure. That's what a creole is.
Please note, I Am Not A Linguist, but that's what I understand from Stephen Pinker's _The Language Instinct_ on this subject.
: Fruitbat :
Re:what kind of site is yahoo quebec (Score:1)
Re:the problem (Score:1)
What does the purpose of the site have to do with the abuse of the trademarks? Nothing. If they had altered the trademarks from the original significantly, then, sure. The question isn't whether it will fool people into thinking it's Yahoo! or not. The question is whether they are using Yahoo!'s trademarks. And they are.
Is jewhoo.com next? (Score:1)
Re:That looks about right. (Score:1)
Parodies (Score:2)
2. http://www.worldwidescam.com/parody.htm says "L.L. Bean Inc. v. Drake Publishers Inc." involved a parody of the well-known L.L. Bean catalogue of outdoor goods published in High Society, an adult magazine devoted to erotic entertainment. The parody was entitled "L.L Beam's Back-to-School-Sex-Catalog" and displayed a facsimile of Bean's trademark. It featured sexually explicit photographs using "products" that were described in a crudely humorous fashion. The article was labeled on the magazine's contents page as "humor" and "parody." After L.L. Bean sought injunctive relief on trademark infringement and trademark dilution theories, the U.S. District Court for the District of Maine granted summary judgment to Bean on the dilution claim under Maine law. The First Circuit reversed, citing first amendment considerations. The court stated that the rights of a trademark owner extent only to prevent injurious unauthorized commercial uses of the mark by another, and that such rights to not entitle the owner to quash an unauthorized use of the mark by one who is communicating ideas or expressing points of view. In this framework, the court found that the dilution statute was inapplicable in this non-commercial context. There could be no "tarnishment," as required for one form of dilution, based solely on the presence of an unwholesome context in which a trademark is used without authorization when that context is non-commercial. Here, Drake Publishers never did use L.L. Bean's mark to identify or promote actual goods or services.
Re:the problem (Score:2)
The first, simply put: it doesn't work to be nice. ... The second reason is that being nice simply doesn't suffice.
Extrapolating to other situations, if someone bumps into you, or calls your number by mistake, the best policy is to scream out a string of obscenities? (Since you know very well they did it on purpose just to bug you) Or perhaps it's just better to skip the preliminaries and invite them to step outside.
Not everyone understands the law and most people don't run everything they plan to do past a lawyer first. Society is not well served if people insist on opening dialog with "fight'n words".
Re:the problem (Score:2)
Being nice actually works in the situations you mention. From the story in his post, being nice didn't work when someone was breaking the rules for the license of the MUD in question.
Agreed, it didn't work that time, so stronger measures were justified. The part I took exception to was that the poster then extrapolated that case to conclude that being nice never works and it's best to just start out nasty.
Most definitely a parody... (Score:2)
To those from less French places, this is somewhat analagous to Australians playing up that they're transported convicts, treating the "theoretically better born" English as inferior.
It's definitely very politically incorrect, and will be quite offensive to anyone sensitive to terms like "wop" or "paki." It's too bad that it's so offensive, as it's otherwise quite funny. The only upside is that it's pretty much going to be offensive to everyone, including Quebecois.
I guess it's funny in a sort of "South Park" way...
Dialects (Score:2)
Quebec French is objectively and legitimately different than French spoken elsewhere. The same can be said of Paris, Marseilles, Toulouse, Wallonia or for that matter Vietnam, Haiti, Louisiana or Reunion. Ergo, calling it a dialect is legitimate, so long as we all understand that all types of French are dialects.
Quebec French shows relatively little creolisation, and calling it a creole is certainly a misnomer. All languages adopt words from other languages, but a creole, as you point out, evolves from a pidgin generally. There is no history of pidgin in mainstream Canadian French. Only the Micmacs and the Michif used genuine creoles as far as I can recall, and neither group much influenced Canadian French.
Guadeloupe, Martinique, Haiti, Reunion, Mauritius and many other places have creoles, Quebec French is unquestionably French - it has only a smattering of foreign terms, no more really than Paris French and less than any modern variant of English. Quebec French has not adopted any grammatical structure from English, nor does the grammar of Quebec French vary in any important way from the standard model of French. Quebec French is, in many respects, very conservative compared to other variants - which is mildly surprising considering the history of poor literacy in Quebec.
There have been some changes in pronunciation, but the same can be said of France - the French spoken today in Europe is not the same as that spoken 300 years ago. There is some variety in vocabulary, but nearly all of it comes from French terms that have shifted in meaning, or retained meanings lost elsewhere. Again, that happens to all languages everywhere.
Furthermore, "Ebonics" (Or Black American English or whatever term you like) has few aspects of a creole. Although there are still some people who believe that black English grammar comes from West African Bantu roots, there are very few linguists who believe this. Black English bears very little (or no) relationship with the English and French creoles of Lousiana, the Carolinas and the Carribean. It is a language that has evolved from the English imposed on African slaves - there is no consistent link between its grammar and the features of any African language. Most likely, it's evolution is just as natural as that separating the varieties of British English from American English, but lack of literacy and education tend to exacerbate the drift.
Ebonics can probably best be characterised as a group of dialects limited primarily to lower income blacks and groups in direct contact with them.
Re:Dialects (Score:2)
Think of Quebec French as being about as different from Paris French as Midwestern American is London English. These things aren't numerically measureable, so that's an approximation, but it's a pretty good one.
Dialects are fuzzy things, there isn't any notion (that I know of) of 'easily recogisable differences'. You could say that people from Minnesota have a dialect of English, because you can objectively measure consistent differences in their speech, but most Americans readily understand Minnesotans. Furthermore, many people can shift between the language they speak at home and some more standard or socially acceptible speech pattern. Dialects aren't solid things, so the only rigourous definition that's useful is any objective variation in speech that isn't an idiolect.
'Naturalness' isn't a notion that means much in terms of linguistic change. Creoles happen spontaneously throughout human history, usually when two or more groups of people have to live in close quarters and communicate, but share no language. However, they don't happen nearly as often when there is a single dominant language they all have to communicate in, like in the context of slave ownership.
((Interesting. So it's just pronounciations and word definitions that differentiate it? Or is there more?))
Mostly, that's it. A lot of people make noise about how common code-switching is in Quebec (using an English word or phrase in the middle of sentence in French) but that is something people do knowingly - only a few English words have really become integrated in Canadian French. The situation in New Brunswick is less clear, but I don't know the details of the French spoken there nearly as well.
((I am under the distinct impression that it is one. English forced on immigrants (in this case, black slaves) caused them to learn the basics, but they were still using it in the context in which they knew language. A new form sprung up as a result. ))
It's a cute theory, so cute almost everyone outside of linguistics buys into it. Unfortunately, there isn't any evidence to support the idea. There needs to be a consistent pattern of Bantu-style usages in order to establish the relationship, since the early period of slavery, when Black English first emerged, is undocumented. The lack of conjugation of the verb "to be" is well documented in many languages with no African contact, it alone isn't enough. Most of the structures used in Black English are inconsistent with typical Bantu grammar, and the few that are could easily be coincidence. After all, there are only so many ways of saying something, there's a good chance that any language will have some structure in common with any other language. Bantu languages most obvious feature is that they are very morphologically rich, while Black English is even poorer in morphology that the already morphology poor Standard English.
Furthermore, it's fairly easy to find phonetic links between Black English and the traditional dialects of the deep south. Certainly, Black English is more like white English in Alabama than like even the Carribean English variants.
((Incidentally, I know some distinctly NON-lower-income people who speak it as their birth-language. So it isn't restricted to those of the lower class or those without an education. )
True. It is mostly restricted to lower income groups and some people who have recently emerged from those groups. Like any linguistic phenomena, Ebonics is a fuzzy edged thing. There are always exceptions.
((Since you say the people you know disagree, could you tell me why? If you know more on the subject than I, I'd like to know what you think. What are the differences between the grammar of the language and the grammar of ebonics? Have you truly examined it, or are you contradicting me just so you can say ebonics is for uneducated losers (I'm not saying that to be inflammatory, I actually have been confronted by those who wanted only to say just that and had no logical backing for it). If need be, we can take this off slashdot - I'd be glad to email about it, so as not to continue an off-topic discussion. ))
First of all, I don't mean to say that Ebonics is in any way inferior or deficient or just for losers. That most of its speakers are black and poor is objectively verifiable. However, Ebonics is a perfectly normal, functional, useable language, as capable as any other of expressing any idea. Speaking it does not indicate lack of intelligence, nor today necessarily lack of education. (Although most well educated Americans can speak something closer to standard English, that doesn't mean they should have to.)
Had African Americans, from the day they set foot in America, been treated equally and given the same education as everyone else, I suspect there would be no Ebonics. Ebonics arose due to socio-economic factors, including poor education. This does not in any way indicate poor intelligence on the part of its speakers, nor deficiency on the part of their language.
In short, I want to distance myself from any idea that Ebonics = dumb and bad and Standard English = smart and good.
I gave a short summary of my reasons for disbelieving in the African origin hypothesis of Black English. If you need further reasons, we probably should take it off
The differences in grammar between Standard English and Black English are fairly well documented by American linguists, and there is a fairly strong tradition of studies in this subject. Language in the USA was the text I had on the subject, but it seems to be out of print. I confess to not being an expert on American dialects - my subject was French - but I did study enough to get the principles down. (An' growin' up in da slums a Joizee shooa hep'd.)
It seems to me that WIlliam Labov is still the big name in that field. His website is at http://www.ling.upenn.edu/~labov/home.html
If I've failed to answer any of your questions please e-mail me. I too have no wish to be hostile. Certainly, I'm not taking an anti-Black English stance.
Back in the old days... (Score:2)
I remember a Weird Al Yankovic fan site that parodied Yahoo, and a joke on Isreali PM Benjamin Netanyahu called Net'an'Yahoo. Did Yahoo take action in those cases? No. Why the sudden change of policy? Does having your stock go up 8000% in three years mean one has to start acting like some dumb, litigious conglomerate?
I don't know how a case like this would play out in a Quebec court. Public opinion is likely to favour the local francophone over a big foreign Anglo company, but the judge may not see it that way.
The commentary in French on the page with Yahoo's letter is worth the trouble of reading, if you're French-compatible. This law firm can't even get the domain name right (pssst.qc.ca vs pssst.gc.ca).
Furthermore, the HTML source of http://altern.org/groov3/yahoo/ has been modified with the follwing embedded comment:
Youhou, avocats de Yahoo, l'auteur de ce site est dans le lien de courriel ci-dessous
Yoohoo! Yahoo lawyers, the author of this site is in the link below
C'est quioute, ça. C'est ben quioute.
Anyway, good luck with Yahoo, d'un québécois en exile.
As another linguist... (Score:2)
Whether you get something that could be passed off as Parisian French in school or something more legitimately Canadian depends on where you live and how much of the population is French there. My former students from Alberta and BC tended to to have illusions about the correctness of Paris French and often refused to use standard Canadian pronunciations (e.g
Vowel raising is common in Ontario and throughout the prairies - I hear it everytime I visit my family in Winnipeg. Most Canadians only hear it when speaking to people from the Maritimes because their accent is pronounced in other ways as well. Most Canadians do have a perceptibily different accent, but are much easier for most Americans to understand than people from other regions of their own country.
I'd like to say that's because there are so many Canadians on American TV, but that's not actually true.
Commonwealth, American and International Englishes (Score:2)
Commonwealth English appears to be in decline, and has been for decades. Though at least now, with the Net (a bidirectional medium, unlike Hollywood and MTV), it goes both ways. The new international English won't be just American-minus-obscure-regionalisms, but will contain pithy Commonwealthisms. For example, how many Americans have you seen using the adjective/adverb "bloody" lately?
And the hardcore Americophobes can use RiscOS; which is so British it even comes in a Welsh version.
Re:what kind of site is yahoo quebec (Score:2)
The rest of the joke is really just the ironic link targets, like a the a link to "Ottawa" (capital of Canada) pointing to a site about the semi-terroristic separatist group FLQ (now demised, as far as I know).
If you do consider writing down joual racist, I'm not really the butt of the joke being an anglo (English-speaking Québecer don't get me started), but I don't think any Québecer with any detectable sense of humour would find this offensive.
Steve 'Nephtes' Freeland | Okay, so maybe I'm a tiny itty
Re:links to other yahoos racist (Score:2)
I'm sorry if the subtlety of my phrasing infers that I found all Quebec citizens unfriendly. My use of the word *often* was not intended as a gross generalisation - but I have to admit the majority of people I met would insist on speaking French when they knew I was English, and then become very terse if I spoke French to them.
Go figure
Chris Wareham
Re:links to other yahoos racist (Score:2)
Chris Wareham
This is not the version Yahoo protested about (Score:2)
Re:the problem (Score:2)
French also spoken here (Score:2)
Houby.
One of their users, definitely. But that doesn't make pssst responsible for it. It's a simple matter to look up the name of the person who registered the domain, and start there, rather than finding a site that is recommended to visit while waiting for searches to complete. The lawyers fsck'ed up, period.
'Joual' glossary (Score:2)
---
You-Hou! Not Yahoo! (Score:2)
When it's english it's parody, when it's quebecese it's infringement. WTF?!?
---
Pssst! And slashdot!! (Score:2)
Im from Quebec and didint know about this site. I'll probably be checking it out now, to see what it has to offer, I mean, cant be that bad if they know about slashdot and post the GOOD articles ( like that one aboot beer bubbles!!
Here is where they mentione it!!
-------------------------------------------
1017 - 2000-01-12 12:03:38 société | fulltet
Slashdot nous informe sur les travaux d'une équipe de scientifiques australiens qui a percé un des mystères du 21e siècle. Celui des bulles dans la Guiness; pourquoi descendent-elles plutôt que de remonter? À voir ; il y a même une animation digne de mention...
Translation :
Slashdot informes us of the works of an australian scientific team who have pierced the mistery of the 21st Century. The mistery about the Guiness beer bubbles; Why to they seem to fall to the bottom instead of floating to the top; there is even an animation which is worth mentionning!
Re:On Racist Humour (Score:2)
Re:Canadian Law of Parodies & Language (Score:2)
Most interesting. I stand corrected. But don't defendants/respondants have choice of language?
-- Robert
Reminds me of Macdonald's Canada (Score:2)
Turns out there was a story behind it...
It seems that when Macdonald's got their trademark, they only got it for the USA and somehow neglected Canada. Somebody in Canada checked - and then trademarked it. Then he cloned the ENTIRE Macdonald's Speedy Service System, including every last menu item (which were also not trademarked in Canada) and started opening franchises all over - including the one at the end of the Ambassador Bridge.
Well after some months a Macdonald's executive noticed, and a a company official was duly dispatched to order them to cease and desist. The owner laughed, pointed in the direction of the bridge, and asked the official if he had noticed the line across the bridge, right at the middle. Then he explained in small words that the line marked the boundary between the US and Canada, and he was in Canada now, and that Canada was a different country, and Macdonald's USA didn't own the trademark there, but HE did, and that they could go whistle.
So Macdonald's Speedy Service System sued (in Canadian court, of course). And lost. And the guy operated his restaurants for quite a while. Meanwhile Macdonald's began adding new food items and were careful to get the Canadian trademark on them. Macdonald's Canada couldn't clone them, of course, or at leaset not with the US names. But that didn't hurt them particularly.
Eventually Macdonald's US broke down and bought the guy out for some non-trivial number of megabux.
YaHooka (Score:2)
numb
A lot is lost in the translation... (Score:2)
though i think this sort of thing is protected by the laws on parody, that's not something i'm entirely clear on, nor is that the point of this post.
a typical example of this humour is in this little section at the bottom of the site:
pssst, ce site est une expérience
pour voir combien de temps mettrait Yahoo!, à se prévaloir de ses droits
un peu comme d'autres l'ont fait avant elle.
Résultat: de la mise en ligne originelle (3 novembre 1999) à la mise en demeure (12 janvier 2000), il s'est écoulé 70 jours. Bravo!
which translates to:
hey, this site is a test to see how long it takes Yahoo! to exercise its rights (in an ironic way, i presume), much as other have done before it. The result: from the beginning (3rd november 1999) to its demise 912 january 2000) it (expletive deleted) 70 days. Well done!
hope that helps
Fross
Re:No parody, but a cheap way to get more hits! (Score:2)
Just my 2 cents,
Benoit Potvin
Interesting... (Score:2)
I'm going to take the words of the French-speakers in the forum here, and go against my initial feelings. It certainly doesn't LOOK like a parody to me, but then, I can't tell what the hell they're saying...
A couple of questions spring to mind, however... Is the addition of the word "Quebec" enough to keep Yahoo from having too much to gripe about? I thought that there were rules concerning parody and satire, and that you could "loosely" use logos as such, but I've always seen them modified to achieve some humorous effect. Yes, the Yahoo logo in this instance is modified, but only by addition. The actual Yahoo! logo is used fully intact, without modification otherwise.
I dunno how tech the laws are, and how such distinguishments are made, but it definately seems like Yahoo has a valid concern here. (Then again, the French-speakers are telling me it's obviously a parody.
Also, without the disclaimer being available (not that I would have been able to read it), there's really know way to know for someone who might not have ever been to the original Yahoo site. If you ask me, they're just trying to reap the rewards of the already established Yahoo.
Maybe it's me, but I really wasn't expecting to see that close a duplicate when I clicked on the link.
Another note, contrary to what was posted in the story, I DO feel that pssst has something to do with this.
Thank God this is over, If I had to type Yah...Doh!!!. Nevermind.
Re:That looks about right. (Score:2)
what kind of site is yahoo quebec (Score:2)
The site is quite rude, using racist and "non-politically correct" terms to point to countries and topics.
This is a kind of humor usual in europe (specially belgium - see "man bites dog" [imdb.com]) and i LOVE it. It's not to be taken seriously and people should not be offended by those jokes.
The search engine was pointing to a XXX search engine; this should be why yahoo is upset. As a result of their actions the search engine now links to the Vatican's search engine (small country in Roma where the pope lives).
It looks like the lawyers that wrote the cease and desist letter did a lot of mistakes in the letter: the name of the recipient is false and that recipient is not the one that did the site, etc...
At the bottom of the site they say it's an experience to see if yahoo was going to react like others (link [snafu.de] to a scientology article in english) did before. they say it took 70 days from the lauching of the site to the cease and desist letter and do not comment on that lenght.
There is also a second page with more links and no search engines.
They also insist about the differences between france-french and quebec-french which is a great joke subject in french speaking countries in europe (they include a link [yahoo.com] to yahoo france on quebec. Looks to me like a revenge.
Conclusion: Yahoo is upset cause of the racist and sexual content of the site. They did not a lot of research on who operated the site and the guys react quick.
REAL Y! parodies get listed in Yahoo quite easily (Score:2)
Wrong target but legitimate claim from Yahoo (Score:3)
Its a bit like when slashdot was named as a defendant in the DeCSS saga
I have visited the website and I find it very very similar to a yahoo homepage and I could not find something like "This site is a parody and is in no way affiliated nor endorsed by Yahoo!"
Moreover, the Yahoo! wording is used and no attempt has been made to change it so that it could mean a parody, like YaHooka! had done in the past.
Well, a co-worker believed it was a Yahoo! site.
I would too, at first sight if I had not followed this story on slashdot.
I think Yahoo! has a valid case here but alas, they have knocked at the wrong door.
Not the authors? (Score:3)
pssst, ce site est une expérience pour voir combien de temps mettrait Yahoo!, à se prévaloir de ses droits un peu comme d'autres l'ont fait avant elle.
Résultat: de la mise en ligne originelle (3 novembre 1999) à la mise en demeure (12 janvier 2000), il s'est écoulé 70 jours. Bravo!"
translation: (in a rush)
psst(link to psst'sites), this site is an experience to see how long Yahoo! will take to make his rights play a bit like others have done before them.
results: from the original cease and desist letter ( november, 3th, 1999 ) to the actual cease and desist letter, it took them 70 days. Bravo!"
I'm wondering what the connection is between psst and the authors of the site... it's quite unclear when reading this as it sounds like the authors received the letter..
Quebec has different [language] LAWS (Score:3)
Others have touched on important issues, and I will add some: Quebec doesn't use common law, it uses civil code (moreso than Louisiana). Furthermore, it has restrictive (and highly controversial) language laws. I'm surprised the letter was in english. Must be from Toronto lawyers.
IANAL, but I don't see why the "Cease and Desist" letter shouldn't be ignored completely. It's written in english to an obviously french-language site. I don't believe anyone in quebec is legally presumed to be able to read english unless they have given indications they can.
Beyond the protection offered parody (and it is obviously such), the fact that Yahoo doesn't have a Quebec site (it does have a section for french language in
If this went to court, it would probably have to be in Quebec civil court. There civil code applies, the chief difference being the judge is not bound by precedents. AFAIK, defendants have choice of language anywhere in Canada, and certainly in Quebec. I doubt an action would succeed and better[worse], Yahoo could well be ordered to pay the defandants legal costs.
-- Robert
No parody, but a cheap way to get more hits! (Score:3)
Since this page would be listed in search-engines under the term 'yahoo' and most people won't see the difference immediately, quite a few would believe that they got on a page produced by the well known Yahoo!
And since quite a few links on the Quebec page lead to sites which contain sexual references or even p0rn (most of it has already been pulled by their respective hosting companies, i guess also because of Yahoo!), Yahoo may indeed get into some troubles with concerned parents.
Even though i don't agree with the cybersquatting laws, which will doubtless be applied here, taking a name of a well known site just to attract more visitors is extremely lame and certainly deserves to be taken action again.
Re:the problem (Score:3)
The second reason is that being nice simply doesn't suffice. There's two aspects to defending a trademark: defending it whenever there's an abuse of it and defending it loudly. The first aspect is necessary for trademarks which have to, unlike a patent and copyright (I think?!), be defended or otherwise they're considered invalid. Arbitrary defense of a trademark doesn't work. The second is to deter others from abusing the trademark -- after all, you have to pay your pack of lawyers for their services, but as long as you're willing to use them, you might as well make the fact very well known. That way Joe Blow from Indiana thinks twice about abusing your trademark.
Canadian Law of Parodies & Language (Score:3)
As background, I am an articling student (i.e. graduated from law school and am now in the process of passing the bar) and I am specializing in IP matters (patents, trade-marks and copyright). I also used to work as a summer student for the law firm which sent the cease and desist letter - and they're one of the top IP law firms in Canada, no dummies usually.
The first legal misapprehension in this post is that the Quebec Civil Code applies to this matter. Copyright and trade-marks are Federal matters, and therefore the Civil Code does not apply. The Copyright Act and the Trade-marks Act, which are Federal Acts, do apply. As such, you can use any of the official languages of Canada in a legal proceeding (which includes English).
The other biggy that people might not understand is that Parody is not a defence in Canada to copyright or trade-mark infringement.
The Perrier and the Michelin cases (trade-marks and copyright respectively) show that in Canada, as opposed to the U.S.A., if you parody someone and it harms the goodwill associated with their trade-mark, then that is actionable and you can be sued for it. The Perrier case involved a mock Perrier bottle dressed-up as a "Pierre-Eh?" bottle (mocking Pierre Trudeau, a famous prime-minister of Canada), and the Michelin case involved a uninionization dispute at a Michelin plant where the Michelin Man was depicted as crushing workers or something like that. In both cases the people sued were forced to stop using the trade-marks (and copyrighted images).
So be careful with your parodies!
qnd translation (Score:4)
the website "yahoo quebec", a parody of the famous american portal Yahoo!, has been created a few months ago by JH Roy, who does the radio show "Branché" at Radio Canada.
Strangely enough, he was mentioned in the threatening letter from Yahoo!, and hadn't even heard of it when we talked to him in the evening. ``I'll start by reading the letter and looking at the laws on cybersquatting and commerce brands, before I see if I take the site down'', he says. ``maybe i'll change the search engine and the logo''.
In his parody, JH Roy used Yahoo!'s logo, with the word "Quebec" added. The search engine searches in the database of a porn site; it's presumably these 2 details that annoyed Yahoo! the most. The letter seems to confirm this.
JH Roy says, ``I thought Yahoo! was the last compay around with a sense of humour. There are several parodies of Yahoo!, some of them are even listed on Yahoo itself!''.
Clément Laberge, who maintains the weblog pssst!, and to whom Yahoo!'s threatenign letter is mostly addressed to, has up to next monday (17 jan) to tell Yahoo's lawyers that he has taken the site down. Which he can't do, since he has no control over the site.
Tanslation of the mmedium article (Score:5)
pssst! formaly warned
Montreal (January 12 2000) - the pssst! website from Quebec has been formaly warned by the American company Yahoo! to have allegedly been the author of the Yahoo!Quebec parody!. The editor in chief of Multimédium, Dominic Fugère, and somenone called Mathieu, whose names appeared with the bottom of the parodied page, are also quoted in the formal warning.
The Yahoo!Quebec site, a parody of the famous American portal Yahoo!, was created a few months ago by Jean-Hugues Roy, organizer of the Branché emission in Radio-Canada.
Surprisingly, this one was not quoted in the formal warning and was thus not well-informed yet when we joined it in evening. " I will begin with carefully read the formal warning and will re-examine the laws on the cybersquatting and other laws on the marks of trade before deciding if I will withdraw the site, answers it. I perhaps will modify the search engine and the graphics of the logo. "
In his parody, Jean-Hugues Roy used the exact logo of Yahoo!, to which it added the word " Quebec ". As for the search engine of the parodied page, it searches the data base of a directory of porn sites. These are the two details which probably exacerbated the susceptibility of Yahoo! Inc. Extracts of the formal warning, sent by the lawyer company Smart & Biggar from Ottawa, seem to confirm this assertion.
" I believed that Yahoo! was the last big company to have the sens of humour, affirms Jean-Hugues Roy. There are several parodies of Yahoo!. Some are even indexed in their search engine! "
Clement Laberge, the person in charge of the pssst! website, to which the formal warning is mainly intended, has until next Monday, January 17, to inform the lawyers of Yahoo! that he withdrew the site, thing which he cannot do by himself because he doesn't have control on the site.
Thanx to Bablefish for the canvas.
Hope this helps
OffTopic addition : Any Linux/Free Software job in Toulouse, France ?
From a Quebecois, why it IS parody: (Score:5)
Here's the thing: spoken Québecois is a variation of France French. Technically, we write the same French (with a few "Canadianisms" thrown in) but our spoken French is radically different, filled with expressions and pronounciation variants that even the French have a lot of problem to understand. When we speak in Québecois before a French, it's not unusual to get a blank stare, followed by 'Pardon?'
There's a whole debate about Québecois slang. Is it a true language? Or is it a deformation brought about by lack of rigor and education? The snobs and well-bred try to mimic Parisian French, but otherwise, you'll hear Québecois everywhere you go. And so, even though everyone speaks it, Québecois is considered 'vulgar' or common by many people. (Some Québecois artists claim otherwise and sing in Québecois, but that's another story.)
So, most of Québec's search engines are coupled with French ones, because we have the same written language. But Yahoo! Québec's humour rests in this: it is written in an imitation of spoken Québecois, and belittles the small-town, close-minded Québecois mentality.
That's why, for instance, under the listing "Régions", you see the following headers: "Us", "Africans", "The South". Most small-minded Québecois without education would only recognise these three distinctions.
Under the news box, we see items such as, "René Simard enceint" ('René Simard [Québec artist, male] pregnant'; cheap joke.) "Gouverne Ment" means 'Government' but is a play on words of 'Govern' and 'lie'. And so on.
So, it's definitely a parody. It's funny, too. Just in case it wasn't obvious, tabarnak!