Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments

News for nerds, stuff that matters

Slashdot Log In

Log In

Create Account  |  Retrieve Password

Lawyer Sues To Get a Patent On Marketing

Posted by kdawson on Tue Mar 10, 2009 07:07 AM
from the series-of-gears dept.
I Don't Believe in Imaginary Property writes "Lawyer Scott Harris, one of the inventors of the concept of a 'marketing company devoted to selling/marketing products produced by other companies in return for a share of their profits,' is appealing the USPTO's rejection of US Patent Application No. 09/387,823 which was intended to patent that 'invention.' This court action is important because it directly challenges the In Re Bilski ruling, which tightened the rules to get rid of most so-called 'business method' patents. One of Mr. Harris's legal theories is that a 'company is a physical thing, and as such analogous to a machine.' If the name seems familiar, it's because Mr. Harris has a long history of inventive legal maneuverings. I'm honestly surprised that SCO never tried to hire or sue him."
+ -
story

Related Stories

This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
 Full
 Abbreviated
 Hidden
More
Loading... please wait.
  • by dsginter (104154) on Tuesday March 10 2009, @07:11AM (#27132915)

    I can see a point where the United States becomes a lawsuit-based economy: instead of producing actual stuff, we'll all just patent stuff like email on a cell phone (who would have thought of that otherwise?).

    The lawyers will obviously need to eat and get haircuts, so the money will eventually trickle down into the hands of the middle class.

    I'm a genius - off to the patent office to patent this idea! I can't wait for my first royalty check.

    • becomes? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by wjh31 (1372867) on Tuesday March 10 2009, @07:15AM (#27132939) Homepage
      sorry, prior art, no dice
      • <disclaimer>I have not read TFA, only the title.</disclaimer>

        <humor>

        Think of the implications if marketing is patented... LESS MARKETING, at least for a while. I, for one, like it.

        </humor>

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          One of Mr. Harris's legal theories is that a 'company is a physical thing, and as such analogous to a machine.'

          I thought the legal representation of a company was as a legal entity comparable to an individual for tax and other purposes. Then, his argument breaks down because he'd be implying that individuals are analogous to machines...

        • Ohhhh! I'll patent sending unsolicited emails! I'll make millions! Or I'll end Spamming. Either way, it's win-win!

      • That hasn't stopped people in the past

    • by Skrynesaver (994435) on Tuesday March 10 2009, @07:19AM (#27132965) Homepage
      You jest, but we currently have US lobbyists acting for US companies in the EU attempting to remove the concept of independent open standards from Europe's ICT policy framework, so that all attempts at interoperation will result in a payment to someone. Any notion of a commons is clearly anathema to some companies and cultures.

      Take a look at this article in the Linux Journal [linuxjournal.com]

    • I'm a genius - off to the patent office to patent this idea! I can't wait for my first royalty check.

      In related news, Boies, Schiller, LLP, have filed a lawsuit on behalf of The SCO Group against dsginter, who is the assignee listed on a recent patent application for a lawsuit-based business.

    • by DevConcepts (1194347) on Tuesday March 10 2009, @07:38AM (#27133063)

      The lawyers will obviously need to eat and get haircuts....

      Lawyers don't eat food, they consume the souls of their clients and their hair doesn't grow because their dead.

        • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 10 2009, @08:29AM (#27133527)

          Never. Their too busy trying to make there mark here and they're.

          Sorry, just couldn't resist. Do you realise how difficult that was to type for someone with a traditional education (get it right or say hello to my friend Mr. Board Rubber)? I had to erect a fort first, just in case of flying educational supplies ;o)

          • Sorry, just couldn't resist.

            You don't have to apologize, you're a dry cleaner, and it's 3am. It would be ridiculous for me to expect you to be open.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      I can see a point where the United States becomes a lawsuit-based economy: instead of producing actual stuff, we'll all just patent stuff like email on a cell phone (who would have thought of that otherwise?).

      The tv show Sliders was a flop, let's not rehash one of their episode starters.

      • by Tx (96709) on Tuesday March 10 2009, @07:36AM (#27133051) Journal

        I defend the right to bare arms and resolve conflicts like this in duels.

        Easy there, I am also a fan of short sleeved shirts, but I'm not sure this is appropriate or traditional attire for a duel.

      • I can see a point where the United States becomes a lawsuit-based economy

        Easy, clean and permanent. Lawsuit my ass, duels are the new problem solver. If it worked for guys like eastwood, bronson or ledger

        Couldn't have picked some real duels, could you? You know, like Hamilton vs Burr, Jackson vs Dickinson, or Lincoln vs Shields.

          • Lincoln vs Booth was another classic. Too bad Lincoln brought a knife to a gun fight.

            Not much of a duel. Lincoln didn't bring anything to that "fight".

            I think this would be more akin to the screaming fan-girl getting a backstage pass to Hannah Montana, and Miley unexpectedly shoots her #1 fan.

  • by aaribaud (585182) on Tuesday March 10 2009, @07:20AM (#27132967)
    Misleading title and summary. The main point is not that the lawyer sued and challenges in Re Bilski, but that he lost on Appeal and that in Re Bilski was ruled dispositive...
    ... as Groklaw's link mentions right from their own title. Now, that Slashdot readers don't RTFA is usual, but submitters? Sheesh. :)
    • IOW, since the court upheld in Re Bilski, this is another nail in the coffin for business patents.

      What I'm waiting on is: What does this mean for software patents? I guess we're about to find out in the Microsoft v. TomTom case. I'm sure we all wait with bated breath.

      • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

        by Anonymous Coward

        I'm sure we all wait with bated breath.

        I'm waiting with baited breath; currently standing on the Redmond campus front lawn, wiggling a minnow between my teeth.

      • Thanks for spelling "bated" correctly. I automatically wince when I see that word, just because I assume that it will be misspelled by someone who does not know what the word means and is only repeating something that he heard someone say on TV. Now, if we can get nerds to understand the difference between a horde of monsters and a hoard of gold, I can die happy.
        • What, one can't have a hoard of monsters? I like to collect them. Getting them into chests and the like is a real bitch, though.

    • Now, that Slashdot readers don't RTFA is usual, but submitters? Sheesh. :)

      I'm telling you, the Take a Shot Every Time kdawson Posts Bullshit Drinking Game is the #1 contributor to cirrhosis of the liver.

    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      This sucks. I was hoping we were finally going to get rid of marketing.

  • by MrKaos (858439) on Tuesday March 10 2009, @07:33AM (#27133029) Journal
    advertisers can't lie without paying a royalty? Maybe I should patent lying.
  • Wait... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Tokerat (150341) on Tuesday March 10 2009, @07:38AM (#27133067) Journal

    Marketing company devoted to selling/marketing products produced by other companies in return for a share of their profits.

    ...Stores?!?

    • Re:Wait... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by JasterBobaMereel (1102861) on Tuesday March 10 2009, @08:13AM (#27133359)

      He appears to be trying to patent the concept of a marketing company or more specifically a software marketing company .... I suspect these already exist and have done for some time ....

      Prior art is every software marketing company in existence ...forget if it can be patented due to it being a process, it has been around so long and is so obvious it cannot be patented

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        He appears to be trying to patent the concept of a marketing company or more specifically a software marketing company .... I suspect these already exist and have done for some time ....

        Prior art is every software marketing company in existence ...forget if it can be patented due to it being a process, it has been around so long and is so obvious it cannot be patented

        Irrelevant. Section 101 rejections come before 102 or 103 considerations.

  • not a machine (Score:5, Interesting)

    by tverbeek (457094) on Tuesday March 10 2009, @07:42AM (#27133087) Homepage
    His argument that a company is a physical thing analogous to a machine is flawed. In our legal system, a company is a "non-natural person", so what he's trying to do is to patent a person, and that's a definite no-no.
    • His argument that a company is a physical thing analogous to a machine is flawed. In our legal system, a company is a "non-natural person", so what he's trying to do is to patent a person, and that's a definite no-no.

      Your argument is flawed (so is the mod points you were given).
      If you are saying you can't patent a company because you can't patent a person you are then saying you can't own a company because you can't own a person. That is the same argument.

      Companies are considered non-natural person's for the purposes of taxations. You tax a company like a person is taxed (thought at a different rate). Companies have their own SS# (known as an EIN number ##-#######). After that the similarities between a company

      • You can show the world you, as can I. Show me the "Microsoft" or any other corporation, and your arguments will hold water. No, BillG or SteveB don't count, nor do the things a corporation might actually produce, nor do the employees that work for the corporation, or any assets that are owned by the corporation. The Microsoft Campus is not "Microsoft", nor is the shipping center they had in the Canyon Park Business Center, or any other place like that. A corporation is a virtual entity. Ownership of a corpo

      • so is the mod points you were given

        I cringed and nearly cried when I read that...

      • Your sense of humor are as good as your grammar. :)

        Actually, you've just touched upon an argument I plan to take to the Supreme Court as a class action on behalf of all corporations, that their inalienable rights under the Equal Protection clause are being violated. Corporations are denied the right to vote, to attend the school of their choice, to enlist in the armed services, to hold elective office, to adopt children, to marry the person (natural or otherwise) of their choice, etc.
    • Actually, it's even worse than that. A company is not even a "physical person" or physical-anything like the patent applicant wants to argue. A company is simply a legally-recognized *relationship* between physical things and people, not a physical object itself, which are what patents are intended to cover configurations of.

      Incidentally, this is the source of another confusion. While the stuff you own might be physical, the legal rights you have in that stuff are not physical; just like a company, they

  • Where do these guys get their money? I was under the impression that sending in a patent, defending it, and the rest of the stuff is an incredibly expensive endeavor. This obviously was denied so he goes off and challenges the decision in court. Does this man really have the time and money to waste on something pointless like this?
    • by codegen (103601) on Tuesday March 10 2009, @07:47AM (#27133127) Journal

      Does this man really have the time and money to waste on something pointless like this?

      He's a lawyer. You do the math.

    • I have a hunch: I don't think he really wants the patent to use it. I think he wants to get this patent to prove that he's a god among patent attorneys and all those firm that want patents or to sue for patents will hire him and his firm.

      Then again, he may actually want the patent so he can hire other lawyers to sue on his behalf so that then, he can sit home, watch his DVD collection of Boston Legal, sip Scotch, and wish that he was hooked up with such hot women as Alan Shore has.

  • by Speare (84249) on Tuesday March 10 2009, @07:45AM (#27133109) Homepage
    If a company is a physical thing, an apparatus, then it is constructed in large part by the people who staff it. All people are unique, and any permutation of a group of people forms a unique subculture. The team either gels or it doesn't, in a unique pattern of ways. Real patents document how to reproduce the results, and anyone is free to try, once the sanctioned monopoly rights have expired. Therefore, a company does not need patent protection, as it will be impossible to reproduce the same mechanism.
    • you mean that a company never makes the same mistake twice ? :-)

      any reference to Microsoft in this post is purely coincidental...
  • Bullshit (Score:4, Insightful)

    by MikeRT (947531) on Tuesday March 10 2009, @07:54AM (#27133159) Homepage

    'company is a physical thing, and as such analogous to a machine.'

    "A machine is any device that uses energy to perform some activity. In common usage, the meaning is that of a device having parts that perform or assist in performing any type of work." Neither a technical nor a vernacular understanding of machinery supports his argument. Only in the twisted logic common to LawyerLandtm could this ever be considered a machine. Lawyers ought to be disbarred for this behavior, as only someone who has an incredibly dishonest character could torture a definition like this.

  • by Mirar (264502) on Tuesday March 10 2009, @08:12AM (#27133341) Homepage

    "Marketing company devoted to selling/marketing products produced by other companies in return for a share of their profits" sounds like what record companies have been doing for almost a century?

  • Doesn't every single retail store sell products produced by other companies in return for their profits?! The fact that anyone could even think this nonsense could be patented shows how screwed up our patent system is.

  • ... should sue him for violating their patent of suing people for violating their patents.

  • by rocketPack (1255456) on Tuesday March 10 2009, @09:23AM (#27134259)

    A Process for Obtaining Legal Ownership of Certain Intellectual Property

    ABSTRACT
    An application is submitted to a government run office which oversees the process of granting and protecting intellectual property rights. Applications contain explanations of methods, design, and applications for said creations, and are often accompanied by diagrams and figures representing the proposed creation for which the applicant ("the Owner") will seek to obtain exclusive rights to create or sell. Once such rights are granted, any facsimile or copy produced by anyone other than the Owner, without express permission of the Owner, will been deemed a forgery and they will be prosecuted pursuant to U.S. intellectual property laws. The following rules shall be applied to any application under consideration:

    1. Prior Art will never be acknowledged. It is irrelevant to the money-making scheme.
    2. The most obscure, ridiculous patents will be approved first.
    3. The process shall never be permitted to be explained, documented, made public, or revised.
    4. All complaints and obvious ill effects on society and technology shall be disregarded.
    5. No actual usable device must ever be produced so that rights may be granted for things one could never actually reasonably expect to produce in any quantity.
    6. Regardless of whether or not the Owner intends to use the granted rights for anything meaningful, or any purpose other than to hinder progress and make money off of the hard work of others, the application shall always be considered valid.

    BACKGROUND OF THE INVENTION
    None. I thought of it first and no one else had ever even conceived of such an invention. Take my word for it, no research necessary. Don't even bother Google'ing it.

    DESCRIPTION OF PRIOR ART
    Not that this is at all relevant, but see the previous section.

    SUMMARY OF THE INVENTION
    Uselessly over-abused process of rewarding those who deserve it the least and providing consistent unfair advantages to those who will hinder progress where progress is often needed the most.

    FOR OFFICE USE ONLY-
    Patent Application No. 7,512,440
    GRANTED 3/10/2009

  • by notaspy (457709) <imnotaspy@yaNETBSDhoo.com minus bsd> on Tuesday March 10 2009, @10:29AM (#27135231)

    Typical. kdawson hasn't a clue about Intellectual Property issues, yet posts constantly and inaccurately about them.

    Firstly, the lawyer did not "sue" to get a patent. The application was (appropriately) rejected by the patent examiner. The applicant appealed the rejection to the PTO Board of Appeals and the rejection was upheld. The applicant then appealed that rejection to the Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit (CAFC), which applied Bilski to uphold the rejection again. Despite the fact that a court was involved, this was not a "lawsuit."

    Rather than appealling to the CAFC, the applicant could have filed a civil action against the Commissioner of Patents in the DC Circuit Court. This would be considered a lawsuit.

    The only story here should be that the Patent system worked.

    And please, please, STOP posting articles with headlines announcing that somebody "won" a patent. Patents are issued or allowed.

  • My patent (Score:3, Funny)

    by MillionthMonkey (240664) on Tuesday March 10 2009, @10:53AM (#27135739)

    I have been granted a patent on staying home from work and hitting the bong.

    To the office with all of you!

  • Namely, just about every lawyer in existence...