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Overzealous AirTran Boots 9 Passengers Off
Posted by
ScuttleMonkey
on Fri Jan 02, 2009 05:40 PM
from the fear-mongering-works dept.
from the fear-mongering-works dept.
An anonymous readerwrites "On Friday the wonderfully customer centric AirTran decided to remove a family of 9 US born Muslims after a comment between two family members regarding how close to the Jet engine they had been seated. The wonderful part is that after the FBI cleared the family 2 hours later, AirTran refused to fly the family, and refused to rebook them on their way from Washington to Orlando, Florida. The family purchased additional tickets on US Airways later that day, after AirTran requested that the irate father be escorted from their booking podiums by security. This whole story highlights the pathetic customer service we are getting from the Airlines these days — they actually treat us like criminals first and ask questions later. Just don't get me started on Delta." It's nice to see that stupidity still knows no bounds.
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Submission: Overzealous AirTrans boots 9 passengers off by Anonymous Coward
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They got a refund (Score:5, Informative)
Apparently, they have now received a refund:
Linky [yahoo.com]
Re:They got a refund (Score:5, Insightful)
Refund has nothing to do with it. It was racism and racial profiling that got them kicked off the plane, interviewed by the FBI, their trip delayed, etc. The financial loss of the original plane tickets is nothing compared to the trauma they have had to deal with mentally.
Let's be real honest with each other here. I mean everybody.
1) A white family of nine people get on a plane. They are dressed in contemporary clothing. Three of the young adults make a remark about where would be the safest place to sit on the plane in the event of an accident or explosion.
2) A brown family of nine people get on a plane. They are dressed in traditional clothing of Islamic people. Three of the young adults make a remark about where would be the safest place to sit on the plane in the event of an accident or explosion.
Hell why not:
3) A Chinese family of nine people get on the plane. They are dressed in clothing straight out of 1920's Shanghai. Three of the young adults in thick Chinese accents remark about where would be the safest place to sit on the plane in the event of an accident or explosion.
The reason why other people felt uncomfortable on the plane had everything to do with the appearance of this family. Those preconceptions and stereotypes led them to interpret those remarks differently then they would have with #1 or #3.
It was racism. Period.
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Re:They got a refund (Score:5, Funny)
3) A Chinese family of nine people get on the plane. They are dressed in clothing straight out of 1920's Shanghai. Three of the young adults in thick Chinese accents remark about where would be the safest place to sit on the plane in the event of an accident or explosion.
I'd be afraid they'd stop the plane, run around it, then get back in.
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Re:They got a refund (Score:5, Insightful)
This event is exactly what you could expect when you go around telling people, "If you see something, say something."
Is this racism? Yes. However, bear in mind that you are asking EVERYONE to go out and look for suspicious activity - even people who are completely unprepared to identify it.
Anyway, the airline has since apologized and offered to fly them back home for free, and frankly I think that the whole thing got blown out of proportion. Hell, even the family admitted that the FBI was very professional - their beef was with the girls that reported them and the stupid airline, which apparently has some really bad decision makers on the ground.
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Re:They got a refund (Score:5, Insightful)
Anyway, the airline has since apologized and offered to fly them back home for free, and frankly I think that the whole thing got blown out of proportion.
Though at the same time, if it was in fact blown out of proportion (which I don't quite believe), I suspect that the only reason they got their refund and apology was because it was blown out of proportion.
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Re:They got a refund (Score:5, Interesting)
>I suspect that the only reason they got their refund and apology was because it was blown out of proportion.
They only got the refund after someone in senior management got word that one of the counter clerks had actually refused a request from an FBI agent to issue a new ticket. I guess the potential liability that comes from having faced down the FBI was much greater than the exposure to a civil suit from the passenger....
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Re:They got a refund (Score:5, Informative)
On a good note the FBI even tried to get them back on the plane when they found out it was just silliness.
A combination of a few silly passengers, dumb rent a cops, and a REALLY STUPID AIRLINE.
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Re:They got a refund (Score:5, Funny)
Let's be real honest with each other here.
Huh, what, why?
I mean everybody.
Including me?
1) A white family of nine people get on a plane.
Well, I tossed an exception right there. White family of nine . . . that's actually really funny!
2) A brown family of nine people get on a plane.
No, they get booted from the plane.
3) A Chinese family of nine people get on the plane.
If the Chinese are leaving the country in such numbers, that means that the economy is going to hell in a hand-basket.
You have been warned.
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Mormons (Score:5, Funny)
1) A white family of nine people get on a plane.
Well, I tossed an exception right there. White family of nine . . . that's actually really funny!
Wait,
PolygamousRanchKid doesn't know about Mormons?
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Re:They got a refund (Score:5, Insightful)
No, It was profiling. A technique that combines racial, religious, ethnic and political bigotry to increase the sense of security of the voters.
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Re:They got a refund (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:They got a refund (Score:5, Interesting)
Statistically a larger proportion of crime is committed by people with coloured skin, should we treat all such people therefore as criminals?
Its the same damn thing.
(and BTW, my answer to the above is 'of course not you idiots' as such statistics mean nothing in relation to intent to commit any crime).
There is NO excuse for the treatment of these people, what started out as a mistake on the part of airline security was then made many times worse as those same idiots dug in their heals rather than just admit they were wrong.
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Re:They got a refund (Score:5, Insightful)
When was the last time a white anglo saxon christian tried to commandeer and/or blow up an airplane in America?
Great point. Those guys prefer to blow up government buildings [wikipedia.org].
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Re:They got a refund (Score:5, Insightful)
It happens about as frequently as Muslim's trying to blow up our airplanes.
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Re:They got a refund (Score:5, Funny)
Yeah! WASPs prefer Ryder trucks full of ammonium nitrate.
Yes they do. I often get a chill when I see a hick driving a moving van.
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Re:They got a refund (Score:5, Interesting)
Anecdote, arising from said "kick me" signs:
A friend was on tour with Godspeed! You Black Emperor. They were eating at an IHOP, somewhere in the midwest. Now, Godspeed is kind of an odd band. I don't know if they still do, but they used to squat in an abandoned warehouse up in Quebec. They're peacefully anti-establishment. They dress kind of odd (compared to your typical small-town midwestern family).
Twenty minutes or so after they sat down to their pancakes and eggs, four county sheriffs show up at the restaurant. They sit down and begin questioning the band about terrorism, if they were terrorists, what they were planning on blowing up / shooting up, et cetera.
In other words, some small-town hick decided to call the police on a potential terror threat because this band looked a little different than they did.
Also:
Even if they're hardline Catholic? Even if they're hard-line southern baptist? There were several families in the PCA (presbyterian church of america) church I group up in who not only believed makeup and jewelry was evil, but also contraceptives. Each family in that (admittedly, small) portion of the congregation had about six or seven kids. Are these families going to raise a few eyebrows? Sure. Should these families be suspected of being terrorists? Hell no. Sure they're weird, sure they're not the norm.
But neither was the (rather large) family of Hasidic Jews that were aboard my flight from Atlanta to NYC the other day. They dressed different. They had a large family. If their kids were asking which section of the plane was safest, and if they were safe sitting next to the engine, would that have aroused suspicion? I'm guessing not.
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Re:They got a refund (Score:5, Insightful)
Different cultures evidently produce terrorists at different rates. That seems factual. The unresolved question seems to be, to what extent is it reasonable and ethical to subject individuals from problematic cultures to greater scrutiny? Not at all? Is there a certain line that shouldn't be crossed? Is increased scrutiny ok, so long as rights aren't violated?
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Re:They got a refund (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, the Irish have been terrible terrorists in the UK over the last few decades. Still, the cahnces of a fellow being a murderer just because he's Irish are pretty low, so picking on a chap for that is a little harsh.
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Re:They got a refund (Score:5, Funny)
You're picturing a woman, right? Wrong! It's a man! You are so sexist.
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Re:They got a refund (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:They got a refund (Score:5, Insightful)
I think not. From TFA's, it appears that the FBI agents did everything right and didn't push ANYBODY around. They don't have legal authority to tell the airlines what to do. They seemed perfectly all right with the airline making an ass out of themselves. When you have that much power and authority, and you're in the spot light, that's exactly what you do. Put on your dark glasses and play it cool.
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US born (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Airtran Blows (Score:5, Funny)
It would have been worse if you were booked in the passenger cabin. Luggage usually makes it it's correct destination.
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Discrimination (Score:5, Insightful)
Laissez-faire types will hate me for suggesting this, but this is exactly the sort of thing that should lead to anti-discrimination lawsuits. We make a big deal out of prohibiting racial discrimination in employment and housing, so why not in transportation? It's because Muslims are all terrorists... innit?
Re:Discrimination (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, Muslim-looking-people are the new "black people" when it comes to profiling. I know what it feels like, being that I'm half black and half white. It's easy for people to shrug it off when it has never happened to them. Dirty looks, being spat on, racial slurs, etc. Fortunatly my experiences turned me into the strong person that I am today.
Hopefully those of you who are unempathetic will never have the shoe on the other foot.
Parent
Re:Discrimination (Score:5, Insightful)
I donno man, I'm an atheist and had a little old grandma spit on me, too. People can be ignorant savages regardless of skin tone. If you're different than they are with something they identify strongly with, they'll turn on you no matter what.
Bunch of savages in this town.
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Re:Discrimination (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Discrimination (Score:5, Informative)
I've not read a more ignorant, mis-informed, and downright stupid account of the Montgomery Bus Boycott, than yours.
It did not end because the free market got tired of losing money. It ended because the Federal Government came in (in the form of the Supreme Court) and smacked them upside the head. Said:"Idiots, we already told you to stop that, do it. Now!"
There had been two previous cases where someone did the exact same thing as Rosa Parks and the legal decision had been in their favor.
What the 'free' market did was attempt to use the civic governments to crack down on the boycott. They tried to force insurance companys to drop the policies of the folk carpooling. They attempted to fine the taxi drivers who were charging fares the same amount as the normal bus fare. They then firebombed two people's houses (including MLK's) and four black churches. They physically attacked the boycotters.
Not ONCE did they say "Oh dear, we are losing money, we should stop this crazy thing and act like human beings"
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Re:Discrimination (Score:5, Insightful)
If anybody on a plane makes a claim that a group of people are acting auspicious then they have very little choice.
Anybody? Really? So there's no line to be drawn, can't be too safe, etc.? How about we have some First Amendment repercussions for the complainers? Certainly yelling "terrorist!" in a crowded airplane could be against the law just like "fire" in a crowded theater is.
The complainers should be punished, and this is where the airline got it wrong: the Muslim Nine should have been let back on and the complainers gotten kicked off the plane and should have lost their fares.
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And you thought.... (Score:5, Insightful)
..that the "real terrorists" didn't succeed in their plots to "terrorize" Americans.
The idiot who reported them (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:The idiot who reported them (Score:5, Insightful)
If anyone is talking about a "bomb" or what have you, they should be reported. Better safe and late then dead and never arriving.
This group never said anything about a bomb. A professional terrorist wouldn't wander down the isle speculating about the best place to put one, either. What does it say about airport security that people who have been through a thorough screening can still arouse suspicion with a casual comment? No faith in Homeland Security or the billions we're spending on airport security?
I am constantly amazed at the level of ignorance and stupidity this country displays toward security. It's gutless and unreasoned. There are something like 1.2 billion Muslims on the planet, around 22% of the total population of the planet! We have problems with a few thousand of them. How long are we going to use 9-11 to justify continued fear and ignorance?
Pathetic.
Parent
I just dread the day... (Score:5, Insightful)
I just dread the day terrorists start pulling bombings of buses or trains or truck weigh stations or busy freeways or malls or what-have-you in the US. Because that day, all the stupidity we see in airports and airplanes will be copied into those venues too.
Unless, of course, we as a people finally pull our heads out instead.
Is this legal ? (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm reasonably sure in Europe you could be sued if you refused to carry someone based on their religion or racial background - I have a feeling this is true in the US also ? If so, I hope they take this stupid airline to the cleaners. Even setting the obvious discrimination aside, there was no excuse for denying them travel given that the FBI had cleared them.
Similar story... (Score:5, Interesting)
Here's the bottom line: (Score:5, Insightful)
First off, this WAS DISCRIMINATION and RACISM!...PERIOD
Second off, NOTHING that the airlines are doing accounts to a RATS ASS at improving ANY air security. NOT THE TSA, NOT THE FBI, NOT THE AIR MARSHALLS...NOTHING!
What HAS helped are two things: First the cabin doors are hardened and second, the pilots have to IMMEDIATELY put the plane on the ground in case of ANY hijacking or other problem!
If these two policies wewre in place on 9/11/2001, both planes from Boston would have landed in Providence or Hartford and NOTHING would have happened to the Trade Center towers! NOTHING would have happened to the Pentagon and the plane that crashed in PA would have landed in Pittsburgh safely.
The whole thing of 'airline security' is a money wasting bullshit facade-and the people involved take themselves WAY TOO SERIOUSLY!!
Re:Open your mouth about security in an airport (Score:5, Insightful)
The only reason not wanting to fly next to the engine is a "security issue" is BECAUSE they were Muslim. If anyone else brought it up, the attendant would have sold them earplugs for $5.
Parent
Re:Open your mouth about security in an airport (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Open your mouth about security in an airport (Score:5, Interesting)
Not always. In many cities, it is illegal to carry firearms into certain places by city ordinance even if you would otherwise be allowed to carry a concealed weapon. Typically these are places such as hospitals, schools and bars.
On a more on-topic note, I think AirTran deserves a hefty lawsuit. This was very clear cut racism. There was no indication any one of the 9 persons were a threat to anyone. Just a refund doesn't seem to fully compensate them for the harm done.
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Re:Open your mouth about security in an airport (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Open your mouth about security in an airport (Score:5, Insightful)
These are law-abiding citizens.
Except that they enter private property in direct violation of the posted conditions for entry. IANAL, but I think that makes 'em trespassers.
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Re:Open your mouth about security in an airport (Score:5, Funny)
Don't fly next to an engineer. I constantly talk through failure modes. How much weight the joints have to handle.
And how C students usually get a job somewhere.
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Re:"bomb" (Score:5, Informative)
Actually, you misread. The article at CNN explicitly stated: "The conversation did not contain the words "bomb," "explosion," "terror" or other words that might have aroused suspicion, Atif Irfan said."
See linky: http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/01/02/family.grounded/index.html [cnn.com]
Not to mention that merely saying the word bomb and attack is not cause for concern. Are we really less capable than the various chat bots for understanding context?
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Re:Everyone should know (Score:5, Informative)
That's correct. In fact, it's important to remember the cardinal rule of the airline business: The customer is always wrong.
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Re:The title is overzealous (Score:5, Informative)
The article does not say that the airline paid for the other flight. It says that the airline offered to pay for the other flight. I'm guessing that the offer requires the family to release the airline of all liability.
Also, other reports stated that the airline was refusing to pay the family's extra cost of taking the other flight, which implies that the offer only came after this became a national news issue. In other words, the offer of a refund only came about because people did not get over it.
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Re:The title is overzealous (Score:5, Insightful)
So let me get this straight, you get on a plane and share your opinion that you'd rather not sit next to the engine, because it's not a safe spot in an accident, and you expect to be taken off of the flight, reported to the FBI, and embarrassed by being refused to be allowed back on or to take another flight later on despite the fact that you've been screened a second time and cleared by the FBI.
That, according to you, is a level headed response? An appropriate response?
Are you one of those folk who complain that rape victims had it coming, they should have known not to do whatever it was that caused them to catch the rapist's eye?
Parent
Re:The title is overzealous (Score:5, Insightful)
Who decided to 'pull the plane over' and kick them of? The pilot.
Who pays the pilot? The airline.
Who decided, once they were cleared by the FBI, that they couldn't get back on that plane? The airline.
Who decided, once they couldn't get on that flight, that they couldn't get on any AirTran flight? The airline.
Do I give a fuck about the other passengers or what they may or may not have started? No. The world is full of clueless twits. The difference between them and the airline's clueless twits is that they weren't the ones exerting their authority in the matter to make things worse.
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Re:The title is overzealous (Score:5, Insightful)
The passengers were at fault for being racists and reporting a non-issue. The airline was not at fault for handing the matter over to the FBI when the issue was reported. The FBI did the right thing by clearing the family. However, the airline WAS at fault for refusing to let the family fly on any future flight even after they had been cleared by the FBI. There's no legitimate (non-discriminatory) reason to do that given the circumstances.
These people likely had their whole vacation planned, and this incident screwed up their plans. One article said they were going to a religious conference, and it's unlikely that conference was delayed while they tried to make other travel arrangements. On top of all of that, they were made to feel like second-class citizens simply because they were brown and Muslim.
They have good cause for a lawsuit against the airline, and I think they should file one. I'm not talking millions of dollars here, but the airline needs to get slapped in court to make them think twice next time a situation like this crops up.
The fact that incidents like this keep happening show that bin Laden and his cohorts succeeded beyond their wildest dreams on 9/11.
Parent
Re:Company name check... (Score:5, Funny)
I flew AirTrans once. The stewardesses didn't half have deep voices.
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Re:I fail to see the issue here... (Score:5, Insightful)
Our intervention in the middle east over the past 200 years has bread suicide bombers who want us the fuck out of their lives. Not the religion.
Got a reference, bub?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_terrorism [wikipedia.org]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eco-terrorism [wikipedia.org]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationalist_terrorism [wikipedia.org]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_violence [wikipedia.org]
There are many terrorist organizations which are not religious.
In fact, one could argue that a majority of the religious terrorism in the middle east is actually nationalist terrorism disguised as religious extremism. If you look at the causes which drive people to the al-qaida bootcamps: oppression (by US forces or otherwise - AQ was not active in Iraq before we had a military presence there), lower standards of living, and so forth. People turn to religion when times get tough. Other people use that to twist the religion. They convince people at the end of their rope that the only thing that will make things better for them, their family, and their country is to go blow up the people fucking them over.
The fact that you ignorant asshats refuse to wake up from your delusional world of hate and bigotry, and perhaps read why people hate the US instead of believing the line "because we're not muslim" is why we've had muslim terrorist attacks on this country and its consulates. Look up the term blowback.
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