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Diskeeper Accused of Scientology Indoctrination
Posted by
kdawson
on Sat Dec 20, 2008 08:20 PM
from the is-that-perfectly-clear dept.
from the is-that-perfectly-clear dept.
touretzky writes "Two ex-employees have sued Diskeeper Corporation in Los Angeles Superior Court after being fired, alleging that the company makes Scientology training a mandatory condition of employment (complaint, PDF). Diskeeper founder and CEO Craig Jensen is a high-level, publicly avowed Scientologist who has given millions to his Church. Diskeeper's surprising response to the lawsuit (PDF) appears to be that religious instruction in a place of employment is protected by the First Amendment." The blogger at RealityBasedCommunity.net believes that the legal mechanism that Diskeeper is using to advance this argument ("motion to strike") is inappropriate and will be disallowed, but that the company will eventually be permitted to present its novel legal theory.
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Wow (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Wow (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:Wow (Score:5, Informative)
Otherwise I can recommend this one. [kessels.com]
Note that JkDefrag uses the Windows defrag API, so it should be as safe to use as the original defrag. Also, Windows occasionally runs a boot optimizing defrag while your screen saver is on, which tends to mess up JkDefrag's logic. You might want to disable it, if you intend to run JkDefrag.
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Re:Wow (Score:5, Informative)
The article you quote contradicts your statement:
"While it is true that ext3 is more resistant to file fragmentation than FAT, and NTFS filesystems, nonetheless ext3 filesystems can and do get fragmented over time.[14] Consequently the successor to the ext3 filesystem, ext4, includes a filesystem defragmentation utility and support for extents (contiguous file regions)."
14: "We found heavily fragmented free areas on an intensively used IMAP server which stores all its emails in individual files - although more than 900 GB of the total disk space of 1.4 TB were still available." http://www.heise-online.co.uk/open/Tuning-the-Linux-file-system-Ext3--/features/110398/3 [heise-online.co.uk]
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How ironic it would be (Score:5, Interesting)
How ironic it would be if the guy who attributes his success to Scientology, kills his company's sales through forcing it to be taught to his employees. ;p
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Re:How ironic it would be (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Wow (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Wow (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:Another Reason to Avoid Windows (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Wow (Score:5, Insightful)
Well I don't want that criminal cult having anything even remotely to do with my system.
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Re:Wow (Score:5, Funny)
Well, that's using strong language to describe Microsoft, isn't it? I guess if the shoe fits...
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Re:Wow (Score:5, Funny)
criminal? historically
cult? I think the word you're looking for is "Apple"
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Re:Wow (Score:5, Interesting)
I would also look for alternatives, since there are almost always an alternative. If none can be found, then I would have to determine how important this product is. I have not found a need for defragging except for in the case of making a partimage of the disk.
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Re:Wow (Score:5, Insightful)
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What the hell? (Score:5, Insightful)
religious discrimination (Score:5, Interesting)
It is going to boil down to technicalities about whether Scientology practice (or "tech") is actually a religious experience, or just a workplace management strategy. Scientology has gotten very good at dancing across that line when it suits them.
When it's time to hand out tax exemptions, they're an association of faith. When they're incorporating Dianetics into secular practices, it's just a communications, planning, and skill development regiment.
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Re:religious discrimination (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.xenu-directory.net/documents/200810-godelman-leshay-v-diskeeper.html [xenu-directory.net]
Link to access official Los Angeles Superior Court Documents [lasuperiorcourt.org]:
http://www.lasuperiorcourt.org/civilCaseSummary/index.asp?CaseType=Civil [lasuperiorcourt.org]
Ex Scientologist Message Board Discussion [exscn.net]:
http://forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=9154 [exscn.net]
Operation Clambake Discussion [xenu.net]:
http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?t=29787 [xenu.net]
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Re:What the hell? (Score:5, Interesting)
Cult of $cientology's standard response to ANYTHING is "freedom of religion, nyah nyah nyah."
Caught evading taxes and breaking into the IRS [wikipedia.org]? No problem - "Freedom of Religion."
Caught Trying to drive someone to suicide and framing them for crimes they didn't commit? [wikipedia.org] No problem - "Freedom of Religion."
Making false medical claims? Drag a cross in the door, claim "Freedom of Religion."
Killed Someone? [wikipedia.org] after removing them from a hospital? No problem - it was "Freedom of Religion."
Take advantage of a poor man having a stroke and playing "Weekend at Bernie's" with him to badmouth your critics? [wikipedia.org] No problem - "Freedom of Religion."
Framing people? Lying about them under oath? [wikipedia.org] "Fair Game" is a "Freedom of Religion" practice.
Ordering someone killed? [wikipedia.org] Sorry, that's a practice of "Freedom of Religion."
Parent
Re:What the hell? (Score:5, Interesting)
I ran into a similar predicament at my former employer. Unbeknownst to me at the time of my interview and hiring there was a significant religious component that developed within the management group.
Our Vice President of operations based many of his decisions on who went to "his" church. Of course, none of this was provable but it became increasingly apparent when he would lead us in prayer at the beginning of our managers meetings twice a week. There were two of us who were not "team players" in this regard, a highly respected director and myself (I managed three different departments and had the highest reviews of any of the managers in the operations group).
When it came time for lay-off's, guess who was let go, the director and myself. Eventually the director was re-hired as a consultant. I decided to burn that bridge and when packing my personal effects I threw a notepad at the vice president and told him in a long tirade to get fuxed. Also, I refused to provide any future assistance when they called me later to figure out how to proceed on some of the projects I was working on.
Since this was in a "right to work" state I had little recourse and would not go back, even if they had doubled my salary and given me a public apology. I went on to a different company and made it my personal crusade to steer every customer away from my earlier employer. Sometimes those types of layoffs come back in spades and bite you in the behind.
Religious fanaticism, discriminatory hiring practices and the glass ceiling are still a major problem in many American companies to this day. I guess that you could fight these practices in court but in the long run, do you really want to work for people like this?
Let the best talent go to where we are appreciated and our quirks (religious beliefs, the shoes you wear, your not so politically correct conversation or personal convictions) matter the least. They say that it is a different job marketplace today with companies able to pick and choose who they want. It is a fool who does not hire the most capable and talented individuals because of some personal bias caused by their own ignorance.
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Re:What the hell? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:What the hell? (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:What the hell? (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:What the hell? (Score:5, Insightful)
This doesn't follow at all. The first amendment guarantees individuals the right to practice their religion of choice. It does not grant the right to force religion on others nor does it allow for a corporation to force a religion on the workers.
This'll end up going down in flames with either a settlement or precedence being set in favor of the employees.
As far as employment requirements go, the first amendment doesn't apply at all, the relevant rules are from case law and human rights legislation. Religious beliefs do qualify a person as a protected class regardless of the particular religion and as such they cannot be used as a method for choosing candidates for non-religious jobs. Basically unless you're hiring for clergy or similar you're not going to be able to get away with it.
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Re:What the hell? (Score:5, Insightful)
A tenet of scientology is that it's okay to lie, cheat, and steal. The doctrine of "Fair Game" [xenu.net] (note that if you're a paid-up scientologist you may have a web filter helpfully installed that blocks or modifies that page).
It is almost cheesy-movie-villain evil. If someone claims to be a scientologist in particular, they are saying they're fine with that and therefore trusting them would be totally insane.
That is in marked contrast to real religions, which tend to at least have at their core some variant of "be excellent unto eachother" (even if a power-hungry priesthood fucks it up in practice), the so-called "Golden Rule". While I'm an atheist, I do believe if more people followed the basic humanistic teachings attributed to, say, Jesus or the Buddha, the world would be a better place. If everyone followed the crazed teachings of L. Ron Hubbard, the world would be a nightmarish hellhole.
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Well... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Well... (Score:5, Funny)
several people threatened them with the 'L' word
Umm.. they threatened to become lesbians? [thelwordonline.com]
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Re:Well... (Score:5, Funny)
There's one product I won't be buying anymore. Oh, and before you start, I worked for a company that tried to pull that indoctrination stuff on employees, until several people threatened them with the 'L' word and a few more quit nearly putting the company OOB. They stopped it fast.
Linux?
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Wrong (Score:5, Informative)
Discrminiation. Period. (Score:5, Insightful)
Diskeeper is not a country club. It's not some sort of fraternal organization of old men in funny hats.
It is a COMPANY. It EMPLOYS People.
Religious preferences, or training has nothing at all to do with the ability to program software. So it's not like some big hairy dude getting mad since the strip club won't let him on the pole.
The laws are extraordinarily clear about this. You cannot base your decisions on whether to employ somebody, or to continue employing them based on religion. The 1st Amendment does not apply here. Last time I checked PEOPLE, NOT CORPORATIONS enjoyed constitutional protections such as the 1st Amendment.
It's a novel argument, but it won't last 60 seconds in court.
Re:Discrminiation. Period. (Score:5, Informative)
Last time I checked PEOPLE, NOT CORPORATIONS enjoyed constitutional protections such as the 1st Amendment.
Hate to burst your bubble, but there have been several court decisions stating the corporations do indeed have freedom of speech protections granted by the first amendment. This is because corporations are considered to be legal "persons". Don't think this will help Diskeeper.
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Re:Discrminiation. Period. (Score:5, Funny)
> Last time I checked PEOPLE, NOT CORPORATIONS enjoyed constitutional protections such as the 1st Amendment.
Hold on... Are you telling me that corporations can't get married.
I guess the wedding is off.
How am I going to break the news to my family?
Worse, how is my true love going to break the news to her board of directors?
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No, they're in violation of the law (Score:5, Informative)
Here's the EEOC's official position-
http://www.eeoc.gov/policy/docs/religion.html#_Toc203359505 [eeoc.gov]
That's less than 2 minutes googling. But somehow I still think hundreds of thousands of dollars will be spent figuring that out...
Missing the Point (Score:5, Interesting)
Now whether the employer actually has a constitutional right to force his employees to take Scientology classes is up for debate, but you can't win that debate by citing any number of lower laws.
Parent
Scientology is the best troll religion ever... (Score:5, Funny)
If only the cult members could be let in on the joke!
If this bothers you.... (Score:5, Informative)
.... Wikipedia has a list of software that defragments disks. [wikipedia.org] Take out Diskeeper and you have a bunch of options. Nothing changes behaviour like the loss of sales.
Redundancy in TFS (Score:5, Insightful)
Diskeeper founder and CEO Craig Jensen is a high levelI, publicly avowed Scientologist who has given millions to his Church ...but we're repeating ourselves...
Been There, Forced To Do That (Score:5, Interesting)
About two years after high school, I started working for a local office supply business as a low-level manager. The owners, all of the upper staff, and most everyone else were Scientologists. They never SAID anything about the training manuals being Scientology, but that is exactly what they were, and, of course, we were forced to study them and pass the tests. They never actively tried to recruit me or make me go to one of their churches/meetings/whatever (though it was mentioned politely a couple times) and didn't discuss it too much, but the manuals were enough to make it clear: Scientology was the way to move up in the company. I played the game for a while and did well there while managing to not become brain-washed, but, eventually, I had to bail. I'm a patient, easy going guy, but I could only take so much of their pseudo-scientific, pseudo-psychological, pseudo-religious cult junk before blowing a fuse.
What I want to know is, if Scientology was the key to success, why then did the business fail? That company no longer exists. :)
My experience at Diskeeper job interview (Score:5, Interesting)
My own experience with Diskeeper.
This was one of the most frustrating experiences of my life. I showed up for an interview at the L.A offices in 2002 or 2003. At the time I knew almost nothing of the COS. I did know that my current boss was from a family of hard-core COS followers. This was one of my last interviews of my "junior years". I'm un-ease, eager to please, eager to get a new job, dare I say, very impressionable.
So here I am waiting in the lobby. Looking around I see a row of huge books (10-12 inches tall), from L. Ron Hubbard, known to me only as a sci-fi writer, and I love sci-fi. Each book had titles related to good management, personal growth and similar stuff. More books a bit further, too far to see the titles. A picture of LRH was hanging on a wall in the back. Something was strange.
I meet the RH person, after a few nice words; the conversation turns on to Dianetics, how incredibly great it is, how it would help me like it helped others, and how we all owe it to the great LRH, and how incredible he was. I nod my head and am somewhat curious.
After some small talk, I am asked to do a quick personality test. I heard before that many businesses do this, but it was the first time for me. The questions where a bit strange, not quite like the personality test from high-school. Once done I gave it back and the HR "corrects it" on the spot in front of me. I then receive strange comment about some strength, and others I will need to improve.
I then get a quick tour of the place, where I am told that every new employee gets a free (and mandatory) "3 day seminar" on the week-end before they start working. After that the employees must stay at the office several evenings for a few hours for at least a month (less often after that) to receive evaluations and more "training". They really want to keep people educated to the latest technology was my thought.
More small talk walking around. Back to the lobby, "We will call you soon for another meeting. Once home, curious about that test I hit Google with some of the questions I remembered from the test.
I was in shock! I studied COS the entire week-end and felt violated in my intellectual integrity. Looking back at it, this was clearly some attempt to enrol me into COS. The test is a sham, not recognize by any real professional in any science. Many claim it's purposely design for failure, you need help and guess who will help you.
Reading on I realized that almost every phrase I heard was to lure me into COS. The "free 3 day seminar" coukd only be the horrible COS spirit breaking seminar used to bring new sheep in. The following evenings of reviews were for COS audits.
I started to be angry. I read that like many cults they use these seminars to manipulate people in despair looking for help. I quickly understood that depressed by a boring job I was in the right state of mind to be a victim. Now I was just mad.
Worst part was, the more I read on scientology and "audits" treatment, the more I realized my current boss (from a family of COS) was using these tactics at work. Making you feel like crap, incompetent, never doing any good work, so when he asked anything we would all comply ASAP. At least it was a wake up call, I changed job, realized how good I really am, and hated the COS ever since ... and it's personal.
Re:My experience at Diskeeper job interview (Score:5, Interesting)
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first amendment law (Score:5, Informative)
Diskeeper is probably arguing from Corporation of Presiding Bishop v. Amos. A gym open to the public but affiliated with the Church of Latter Day Saints fired a janitor who wasn't a Mormon. The janitor sued, arguing the exemption for religious organizations from Title VII of the Civil Rights Act (prohibiting religious discrimination in employment) violated the establishment clause of the 1st amendment. IIRC, the Church argued that this exemption was a permissible accommodation of the Church's free exercise rights under the 1st amendment. The Supreme Court agreed with the Church.
The problem is, Diskeeper isn't a religious organization, so they don't qualify for the statutory exemption in Title VII. While religious instruction in the workplace may or may not be lawful, making continued employment dependent on religious instruction in a particular faith almost certainly is unlawful.
Hopefully Diskeeper goes down at the summary judgment stage, if not on a motion to dismiss.
You can tell if it's a religion by ... (Score:5, Insightful)
A religion does two things: Prays to God, and passes the collection basket.
Scientology is not a religion.
Alcoholics Anonymous is a religion.
It doesn't work like that. (Score:5, Informative)
They can fire you, at will, for any LEGAL reason.
Discrimination based upon religious preference is NOT a legal reason.
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Re:It doesn't work like that. (Score:5, Interesting)
Correct. There are several exceptions to the at-will doctrine in California. You can't be fired if you've been promised, even verbally, that you will not be. Further, you can't be fired for refusing to break a law, based on religion or various other types of discrimination, and a small handful of other reasons.
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Re:It doesn't work like that. (Score:5, Funny)
Hmmm. What if that promise was made under torture?
I'm just wondering if tickling my boss really hard could help my job security.
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Re:It doesn't work like that. (Score:5, Interesting)
Perhaps this is a semantic quibble, but the rule is really the flip side. They can fire for *any* reason so long as there is not a law (or common law court decision) that specifically makes the reason unlawful. Discrimination on the basis of race, sex, religion, national origin, marital status, and pregnancy are just a few of the proscribed reasons. Various state statutes add a lot more. At one point, Oregon had a statute that prohibited employers from taking adverse action against employees based on their non-workplace use of tobacco products (I don't know if this is still on the books). The point being, unless it is a specifically prohibited reason, the employer can use it as a basis for termination. In practice, things get much more complex and employers often use non-prohibited reasons as a pretext for firing someone for a prohibited reason.
Employers with a religious purpose (churches immediately come to mind) have limited leeway with respect to employing people who share the same religious belief (at least with respect to positions that are overtly religious in nature). For regular companies that offer non-religious services and products, the rules are much more restrictive and you would have to look at actual conduct rather than the naked fact of religious affiliation. A wiccan might not be able to hold a job as an ED nurse if she were required by her religion to display numerous dangling body piercings that could become entangled in tubing, patient body parts, etc. (not to single out witches but this is a matter I actually had to deal with). In this particular case, I canmpt imagine any defense that has been approved by any appellate court. Novel defense indeed.
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Re:It doesn't work like that. (Score:5, Insightful)
As one of my professors loved to say:
You can fire someone for no reason, but you can't fire them for the wrong reason.
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Re:It doesn't work like that. (Score:5, Insightful)
Forcing someone to actively practice a religion is probably illegal
There's no 'probably' about it. It is illegal.
but requiring someone to be knowledgeable in the religions practices even if it requires training, probably isn't anymore illegal than requiring someone to receive training about how to operate a piece of machinery.
Cause that makes sense. A company that develops software would have need of its employees being knowledgeable in any religion.
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Re:California is a at will state (Score:5, Informative)
At will does not mean "anything they do is legal, you can just leave." It merely means that there is no implied contract about severance or notice.
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Re:California is a at will state (Score:5, Insightful)
Good to know, that means I won't have to hire Blacks, cripples or homosexuals either.
Oh wait, that's not how it really works now is it?
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Re:When referring to Scientology.... (Score:5, Insightful)
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