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YouTube Bans Gun and Knife Videos In the UK
Posted by
timothy
on Sun Sep 21, 2008 12:50 AM
from the long-chain-of-abuses-and-usurpations dept.
from the long-chain-of-abuses-and-usurpations dept.
PatPending writes with a depressing excerpt from the UK's Metro: "The Google-owned video-sharing site YouTube has decided to introduce the ban [on weapons-related videos] for the UK only amid widespread unease about the increase in knife crime in the country. 'We recognise that there has been particular concern over videos in the UK that involve showing weapons with the aim of intimidation, and this is one of the areas we are addressing,' a YouTube spokesperson said. 'I would like to see other internet service providers follow suit to reinforce our message that violence will not be tolerated either on the internet or in the real world,' she said."
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'cause everyone knows (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:'cause everyone knows (Score:5, Informative)
Knives are this month's hysteria in the UK. That's not to say there isn't a problem with knife use in the UK. And it isn't to say that videos on YouTube can't be used for intimidation of specific people and so should be removed in such cases. But one day, the media suddenly went into a feeding frenzy, police chiefs were trotting out their most ridiculous arrays or seized weapons (including a photo of a Star Trek replica weapon at one point) and Home Secretaries were trying to look all grave and serious talking about the knife epidemic sweeping our nation.
It may be a serious issue. But it's definitely something that Labour are trying to use for political gain and as a fear stick.
Parent
Re:'cause everyone knows (Score:5, Insightful)
But one day, the media suddenly went into a feeding frenzy, police chiefs were trotting out their most ridiculous arrays or seized weapons (including a photo of a Star Trek replica weapon at one point) and Home Secretaries were trying to look all grave and serious talking about the knife epidemic sweeping our nation.
I'm looking forward to the upcoming Brick Epidemic, the following Cobblestone Conundrum, and finally the Pointy-stick Problem.
Before it is all over you English won't be allowed possession of anything harder than mushy peas. I've no idea how you'll manage to cook them or mash them for that matter because anything sufficiently rigid enough to cook them in or mash them with will have been made illegal to possess.
Turing word: disarm
(Sometimes I swear they're added a lexical analyzer.)
Parent
Re:'cause everyone knows (Score:4, Funny)
I'm looking forward to the upcoming Brick Epidemic, the following Cobblestone Conundrum, and finally the Pointy-stick Problem.
He's got a board with a nail in it!
Parent
Re:'cause everyone knows (Score:5, Funny)
There have already been calls in this country to ban kitchen knives with a point, I shit you not. Some chefs have said that you can use knives without points for most things anyway, and that pointless knives are the norm in China and they do OK.
Others point out that gang violence in China simply involves fatal hackings instead of fatal stabbings.
Parent
Re:'cause everyone knows (Score:4, Insightful)
I have never once in my life seen a knife that was designed to be a weapon. I have seen and own plenty which most certainly can be used as such, such as my meat cleaver. Of course, if I wanted to kill someone with a bladed weapon, I'd pick my axe, which should be able to split your skull just as easy as a log for my fireplace. And I regularly carry a sharp knife or scissors with pointed ends around with me, because I regularly find myself needing to cut things cleanly, or to simply clean the space below my fingernails.
Your assertion is ridiculous, and you are either a liar or an idiot to have made it.
Parent
Re:'cause everyone knows (Score:4, Insightful)
The UK does have a problem with kids stabbing each other but to be honest I think the news reporting on it makes it worse more than any Youtube video.
The news makes it seems like it's a bigger deal (if everyone is doing it then I should be) and it shows you a kid can make national headlines quite easily and people are more obsessed with fame these days.
Parent
Re:'cause everyone knows (Score:5, Informative)
Ban guns, gun crime skyrockes. Ban knives, knife crime escalates.
That actually never happened. Violent crime has been dropping in Britain.
BTW, if you like the way that England is going with this, vote Obama, he's got the same thing in mind for America.
Riiiiiiiggght. Got any evidence to back that up?
Parent
Re:'cause everyone knows (Score:5, Informative)
Interesting reality you live in there.
results of a really quick google search:
http://www.reason.com/news/show/28582.html [reason.com] (england & gun control)
the Obama thing is a little hard to pin down, as he has been pretty good at avoiding any straight answers. But you could start here: http://www.ontheissues.org/domestic/Barack_Obama_Gun_Control.htm [ontheissues.org]
note: if you are pro-gun control, you obviously won't see anything wrong with this.
Parent
Re:'cause everyone knows (Score:4, Insightful)
OK, so where does your link show skyrocketing knife crimes correlating to a ban of knives? That's what the GP claimed.
Also, the Reason article you link to is from 2002, so is rather outdated. Violent crimes have dropped in the UK since then. And I'm not seeing the claimed correlation between UK gun laws and the incidence of violent crime. Again, linky: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6906554.stm [bbc.co.uk]
From your link on Obama, he states "As I said, I have never favored an all-out ban on handguns." You do realize that gun control and safety measures are different than banning guns, don't you?
The funny thing is that your own links rebut the argument you were trying to make with them!
Parent
Re:'cause everyone knows (Score:5, Interesting)
"As I said, I have never favored an all-out ban on handguns." You do realize that gun control and safety measures are different than banning guns, don't you?
Gun control advocates have employed a slippery slope approach to accomplishing what they cannot do outright. For example. here in Massachusetts, handgun licenses are issued only at the discretion of the local chief of police. While that sounds reasonable on its face, what this means in terms of real-world effect is that the police chiefs of certain towns and cities have de facto repealed the Second Amendment for most citizens. Patterns of abuse range from outright denial of a permit to a qualified and law-abiding citizen, to simply never allowing the process to finish, by dragging it out for months.
My right to vote, or free speech, or freedom of worship do not depend on my police chief's permission, nor should they. Why should my right to bear arms be restricted? I have not been deemed a threat to anyone around me. The free speech and fifth amendment rights of a convicted murderer/rapist receive more protection than the self-defense rights of an innocent man in this country.
Parent
Re:'cause everyone knows (Score:5, Insightful)
More guns means less crime in some areas. It means more crime in other areas. Generally speaking I support gun rights, but I wish people who do would admit that in very socially messed up places, giving more people guns does not improve things. If it did, then the gangs in LA would be at peace, right?
Guns as a deterrent depends on people valuing their lives, accepting mortality, but believing they can live longer if they're careful. If you're young enough, tough enough, dumb enough, or your life is shitty enough, that might not be the case, and thus you end up amplifying the mess by giving everyone a license to kill.
Guns don't cause violence, but they don't uniformly solve it either. And in some places they can exasperate it. When gun control people and gun rights people can agree on these facts, maybe a productive discussion can begin.
Cheers.
Parent
Re:'cause everyone knows (Score:4, Insightful)
The problem with gun/knife control is that the real criminal will still be able to get knives or guns from the black market.
So it won't really stop crime . It may however , decrease the chance of accidents happing with guns.
But still , anything can be used as a lethal weapon in some way. You can do some serious damage with an umbrella if you know how.
Parent
Re:'cause everyone knows (Score:4, Insightful)
After living in Moss Side (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moss_Side) since the late 1990s I reckon I have a unique perspective on Gun and Knife crime.
One of the reasons I am very glad that firearms are illegal in this country is it makes it a lot easier for the police to arrest people who wave them around.
A few years ago I had one pointed at me while I walked down the road. The guy wielding it had just attempted to mug someone and had been disturbed by a large group of people. He felt intimidated enough to jump into a car and bail and I was walking up the road paying too much attention to his car as it sped off. This particular gang of thugs had been very active in my area and had already appeared on the police radar. The police watched them, then waited until they were all together one evening in someones house and paid them a visit. All of the people present in that house then got a mandatory 5 year sentence for the revolver, automatic pistol and submachine gun that was found in the middle of the table they were all sat around.
If possessing a firearm in a private residence was legal this would be much harder as you would have to catch them in process of committing a crime. Even if you could you may not have enough evidence to convict them all if some were just keeping a look out for potential victims. The fact is that there is no reason to own a firearm in an inner city area except to use on other people and the courts here take a very dim view of this, even iff you try and argue self defence.
Even if I chose to carry a weapon (illegally) for my own protection there is a high likelyhood I would not get a chance to use it. I have only been mugged once in Moss Side and I did not see it coming at all. The first I knew was when I got punched to the back of the head and was jumped by 3 people. In this situation a firearm would have been useless since all 3 were at close range.
The fact is that having a large number of untrained people with guns is not useful for society. The US has a much higher murder rate then the UK even though they allow private firearm ownership. Look at the page linked below and compare the US with other countries that have a much more restrictive policy on gun ownership like those in Europe. I know the US doesnt top this list, but it does come a lot higher that other countries with a similar economic and political status.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_murder_rate [wikipedia.org]
Parent
Re:'cause everyone knows (Score:5, Insightful)
I just have two counterpoints to make.
The first is that correlation does not equal causation. Sure, the US has very liberal firearm laws, but that's not really the most important factor. Take a look at Canada. They have similar gun laws, but a much lower murder rate. Brazil has more restrictive laws, but a much higher murder rate.
The largest factor for these high murder rates is poverty. The US is a very wealthy place but neighborhoods of extreme poverty exist in most cities. Generally speaking wealthy people don't kill each other, poor people do. Passing a law criminalizing guns wouldn't save many lives, fixing the root cause would.
Second, waving a gun at somebody is a crime in the US. You just can't go about brandishing firearms here. I'm not sure why you seem to think that would make it more difficult to catch criminals. In the US having a automatic weapon (usually) doesn't make you a criminal, so they don't need to be caught. They only need to be caught if they actually commit a crime.
Parent
Re:'cause everyone knows (Score:5, Insightful)
Or maybe we could require anyone who wants to operate a car to pass some kind of test and medical exam first. Regulate drivers, with something like a driving license, or something ?
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Re:'cause everyone knows (Score:4, Funny)
In line with your suggestion, I propose all people who wish to use a knife possess a Boy Scout merit badge. This will solve any and all conceivable problems and issues once and for all, just like how licensed cars and guns have removed any possible dangers from these items.
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Re:'cause everyone knows (Score:4, Interesting)
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Re:'cause everyone knows (Score:5, Insightful)
1. I like target shooting
2. I like to collect finely made items
3. I live way the hell out in the country, and coyotes have been taking some of the smaller livestock
4. I like to and it is legal
5. When seconds count, the police are only minutes away
(These may or may not apply to me personally)
The idiots on Youtube? Bust em. They shouldn't be allowed near a squirtgun.
But a firearm in my hands is zero danger to you. You're in more danger from your neighbors car. Unless of course you try to do harm to me and mine.
Are you that paranoid?
Parent
Re:'cause everyone knows (Score:5, Interesting)
It's about freedom. As an American, I have certain rights that people before me fought and died to give me. One of these is gun ownership, as described in the constitution. As a competent, law-abiding citizen, I should be able to own a gun if I wish and be able to freely use it in certain instances, such as for sport or in cases where my life or someone else's life is directly being threatened. Even in the last scenario, I would not pull the trigger unless I had no choice.
Now, gun ownership isn't for everyone, and I can understand that. Some people feel the need to have a gun around for legitimate purposes, such as protection, collection, or hunting (I'm from Alabama, and quite a bit of hunting goes on down here) Some people don't want a gun, and that's okay, too.
Freedom is about letting both types of people have what they want. I'm all for keeping guns out of the hands of criminals, but never at the expense of freedom.
Parent
Re:'cause everyone knows (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm not surprised you got modded "flamebait"; how DARE you criticize Obama!
Besides, he is definitely NOT planning on the same thing as England, he just wants to ban all semi-automatic weapons; you could still have your double-barrel shotguns, bolt action rifles and single action revolvers as long as you live outside of an Urban area. I guess a person could be concerned that he hasn't defined what an Urban area is...but still, shut up! he Gives us hope!
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Re:'cause everyone knows (Score:5, Informative)
I'm not surprised you got modded "flamebait"; how DARE you criticize Obama! Besides, he is definitely NOT planning on the same thing as England, he just wants to ban all semi-automatic weapons; you could still have your double-barrel shotguns, bolt action rifles and single action revolvers as long as you live outside of an Urban area. I guess a person could be concerned that he hasn't defined what an Urban area is...but still, shut up! he Gives us hope!
But, you can only possess those as long as you can find a gun store which would still be in operation. Under a 1999 Obama proposal [volokh.com], all gun stores within five miles of any school or park. Such a law, if actually proposed and passed, would kill off pretty much every gun store in the country which wasn't way in the boonies. Now, this admittedly wasn't proposed as a bill (as that would require him to have actually done something). This was proposed in a speech at an anti-rights rally. Yep, a real rights supporter he. ;)
Parent
Re:'cause everyone knows (Score:5, Interesting)
How did the English, who once ruled a vast empire, become such sissified little bitches?
We have knives.
The USA has Janet Jackson's nipple... or, in some states, try mentioning dice (gambling!) or magic (religion!) in a school maths book.
I remember once, while visiting the USA, I caught a showing of the British political satire/thriller "To Play The King" on PBS. PBS felt it necessary to prefix the show with a patronising lecture on why monarchies were a bad thing and the US had fought a war of independence against the idea. I was astounded - we might get warnings about potentially offensive material/flashing lights/may contain nuts before a show, we might get slightly edited versions of shows which are shown when the kids are awake, we might get "helpline numbers" if a show mentions child abuse or AIDS but we do not get lectured on how we should interpret the show we are about to see.
Different folks, different disproportionate obsessions, I suppose. Now, the knife crime figures are being shamelessly talked up at the moment, but I think its pretty safe to say that they account for more deaths than "wardrobe malfunction".
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Re:'cause everyone knows (Score:5, Funny)
Ain't that just like an american, to bring guns to a knife discussion.
Parent
Re:'cause everyone knows (Score:4, Funny)
Youtube doesn't kill people. Google kills you, except in Soviet Russia.
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Re:'cause everyone knows (Score:5, Interesting)
First they took our guns.
Then they took away our right of free speech.
Next they took us to the cotton plantation to work the fields.
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Re:'cause everyone knows (Score:5, Funny)
With a name like "Foobar of Borg"? Please. At worst you assimilate people. More likely, though, you just run around at Star Trek conventions, pretending that you matter.
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Re:'cause everyone knows (Score:4, Interesting)
burglaries per capita:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_bur_percap-crime-burglaries-per-capita [nationmaster.com]
The US has a higher rate than France, Ireland and Greence. Why don't all those handguns prevent people stealing from houses?
Parent
Sometimes, self-regulation is scarier than outside (Score:5, Insightful)
You know, I'm a bit torn here.
I think it's really oppressive when governments do things like telling a company that they'd have to do something like this (which the government did *not* do)... But it's almost scarier that they're doing it on their own initiative as a company. It's like one of those many situations in which someone will self-regulate to a stronger degree than is necessary just to present the appearance that outside regulation is not necessary. I certainly believe that Google/YouTube has the right to do this, but not necessarily that they should. So is it better that this came from within rather than from external forces?
--
Hey code monkey... learn electronics! Powerful microcontroller kits for the digital generation. [nerdkits.com]
Re:Corporate responsibility (Score:4, Insightful)
No, corporations should make money. They shouldn't be (by themselves) responsible to other "communities" than to their shareholders. The reason is that making money is why they do exist; to behave differently is expecting them to behave irrationally.
That's a narrow view. First of all, if the company isn't publicly traded, then its job is to do whatever the owners want, which is frequently more complex than "make as much money as possible". So if we're talking about publicly traded companies, wouldn't companies benefit from positive public opinion? The company's job isn't just to make money this year--it's to seek long term profitability, and that may involve "being responsible".
On another note, these companies, even the public ones, are run by their officers. Those officers are people with principles, whatever they be, and I would hope that these people follow their principles, as well as do their best to lead their company to success.
Parent
Re:Sometimes, self-regulation is scarier than outs (Score:5, Insightful)
True.
And if those videos commit a real crime (as in, an actual murder rather than some twit mangling a perfectly good side of beef), they at least provide evidence to use against the attacker.
If not? Well, I fail to see the problem with some twit mangling a side of beef, as long as he owns it.
Parent
UK is full of spineless pussies (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:UK is full of spineless pussies (Score:5, Funny)
personally know several people who have been robbed using Arnold Schwarzenegger as a deadly weapon. They call the victim's "California Taxpayers" :)
(jk - I think he has been lowering taxes)
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Re:UK is full of spineless pussies (Score:5, Insightful)
Uhm, it doesn't matter how much they raise or lower the taxes in California. There will always be a shortfall because non-discretionary spending is set (by law) at something like 103% of the state budget. Idiot people kept voting in mandatory money for their pet projects. 3% here, 5% there, and now we are required to spend more than will be available.
That is what Ahnold meant when he said the budget is inherently broken. Fixing it is proving impossible. No one is willing to cut even one dollar from anything. I'd like to see a (state) Constitutional amendment that penalizes the members of the assembly by not paying them for the periods when we don't have a budget. I think we're up to three months now. A 25% salary cut across the board for all assembly members sounds like a damn good idea. Alternately, we could just lynch a few of the bastards. Either way works for me.
Parent
As can be logically concluded... (Score:5, Insightful)
'knife crime?' (Score:5, Insightful)
pure idiocy.
no one seems to realize that there is no such thing as "gun" or "knife" crime. there is crime, and the most convenient tool to carry it out with for threatening people and causing harm. where guns are available this is the tool, where guns are not it's knives or bludgeoning implements.
'knife crime' is going up because that's what is available.
i've gotten a hell of a lot of decent information about my firearm from youtube (if you keep it to videos featuring nationally recognized figures you can't get steered too wrong, like todd jarett).
this is just a plain stupid move on youtube's part.
Cooking knives (Score:4, Interesting)
Really increased? (Score:5, Informative)
I remember hearing about this on BBC's radio4...
A quick search later found this article http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7421534.stm [bbc.co.uk]
According to the British Crime Survey (BCS), overall violent crime has decreased by 41% since a peak in 1995.
Knives are used in about 8% of violent incidents, according to the BCS, a level that has largely remained the same during the past decade.
However:
But the BCS figures do not include under-16s, something which the Home Secretary Jacqui Smith announced this month would change.
Awesome idea! (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEoiu2Coxrc [youtube.com] or
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IHQqW8zOSk [youtube.com]
What constitutes a "knife" video? (Score:4, Funny)
Surely anyone who cuts rope or whittles a twig would be banned, but is it okay to have a Swiss army knife if you never take out the blade on camera and just use the cork screw and the screw driver?
Also, are scissors allowed? How about razors? Are electric razors allowed? exacto knives? Scalpels? Pointy sticks?
That's quite alright ... (Score:4, Funny)
They can just replace them with walkie-talkies.
Right?
RIGHT?!?
A few simple steps - (Score:5, Interesting)
'I would like to see other internet service providers follow suit to reinforce our message that violence will not be tolerated either on the internet or in the real world,' she said.
First it's guns,
then it's knives,
then it's drunken louts with their angry fists,
then it's "unsavoury behaviour" in the street,
then it's public demonstrations/rallies,
then it's any dissent at all.
All for the good of the people, of course.
WTFPOST (Score:4, Interesting)
The link is this [metro.co.uk]
What a noodle-spined move on the part of Google! If only UN language were so effective on the rogue nations of the world!
"I would like to see other internet service providers follow suit to reinforce our message that violence will not be tolerated either on the internet or in the real world," said Home Secretary Jacqui Smith, who has also stated that police should restrict photography by citizens. Indeed, why not suppress free speech in in all ways in Britain and in the rest of the world, you dunce? It would certainly decrease violence!
The hysterical myths about computer game violence have in many cases been debunked, as recently discussed [slashdot.org], and why are YouTube videos any different? Movies, games and books which incite dissent are next on the worldwide chopping block, folks! To see Google assume the position on this debate, which includes no specific legislation, is a grim forecast on government intervening in our daily lives with their friendly companies on Politically Correct leashes opening our bedroom doors for them.
The cheeky bastards.
"the increase in knife crime in the UK" is a lie. (Score:5, Informative)
Knife crime has not increased in the UK.
Reporting of knife crime in the UK has increased dramatically. It just happens to be what the papers happen to be focusing on this year. Last year it was the McCann thing. A few years ago it was the great paedophile threat, which came about due to one or two high-profile cases featuring photogenic young girls. Before that it was ... thankfully I can't remember.
Anyway, the papers finally decided they needed new "fear" stories to run and grab headlines with. Knife crime appears to be the one they're rallied around this time.
You are still much, much more likely to die in a car accident than to be stabbed to death by a "teenage yob". Doesn't make good headlines though or instill the same level of fear though, does it?
The British Press Need a sense of Responsibility (Score:4, Interesting)
The main problem within the UK is that over the last few decades we have decided that we have rights rather than understand that responsibilities go with those rights. We have always had a "thug" (or gang) culture somewhere in our society, but we have never had the leadership to sort out these problems directly, instead we blame ethic minorities, drugs, gambling and any other area of perceived illegal activity, all of which are indirectly related to thug culture. However, we never appear to properly examine the problem because we are too quick to blame and not to understand.
I have a very good example. I was involved in a serious car accident on Friday, quite frankly I should not be here, yet alone sitting at the computer uninjured. The accident was caused by the car I was travelling in (being driven by my future father in-law) was side-swiped by a left hand drive Portuguese lorry trying to more into the middle lane of the motorway, without realising that we were there. The car spun, hit the soft embankment, rolled twice and dug itself in upright on all four wheels.
There is a known problem with these lorries in that they have a massive blind spot. Unfortunately, knowing our xenophobic press, if the actually bother to do their research as this problem is quite serious, they would seek to ban every foreign lorry on British roads, even though Irish lorries are Right Hand Drive and British and Irish lorries cold potentially have the same blind stop when driven in Continental Europe, as they drive on the right instead of the left.
I myself don't blame the lorry driver in so much that he was doing his job. I do feel that the company that hired the lorry and haulier hold responsibility for attempting to cut costs.
For want of a better expression, there is technology in a £30 mobile phone (i.e. camera and screen) that could be used as an effective blind spot mirror. In addition, many cars today have reversing sensors that could be employed to warn lorry drivers that the lane next to them is not clear.
Now what has this got to do with knife crime? not a lot you would think? Well actually it has. Sadly you are more likely to die at the hands of a car than a knife in the UK. On that level will You Tube be banning the viewing of any car on their website? Of course not. Cars (and I suppose lorries) can be used to kill and so can knives, but then knives are even more vital to society than cars; you can't cut your food without a knife, but you can walk instead of drive.
So, when are we answer the question properly - Why do people wish to carry knives for self defence?
Working link (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re:can't get to TFA. (Score:5, Funny)
They thought it was unfair how the few people who actually read the articles have a huge advantage in discussing them, so they decided to level the playing field.
Parent
Re:first post (Score:4, Informative)
I must admit, these trollish little first posts do make good place holders.
TFA should probably be http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7621013.stm [bbc.co.uk]. Interestingly enough, it makes use of the increasingly ubiquitous "vet" [word-detective.com].
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Re:first post (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:first post (Score:4, Informative)
The BBC should use 'vet' because it's been in common usage in the UK for the last 100 years.
This 'new' word is only new to the US.
Parent