T-Ray Camera Sees Through Clothes, Preserves Privacy

Quite a few readers are sending in stories about ThruVision's products, slated to be demonstrated in Britain next week, that are claimed to use Terahertz radiation ("T-rays") to detect foreign objects under clothing, without revealing body details, from a distance of 25 meters and while the subject is in motion. T-rays lie on the electromagnetic spectrum between infrared and microwaves, and are the subject of lively research efforts worldwide. ThruVision says it developed its products in cooperation with the European Space Agency.

Don't be silly

[BadAnalogyGuy (945258)]

Everyone knows the real threat is breast milk and hand cream. Why are we scanning bodies for weapons when there are people trying to get on the plane with Starbucks coffee??

Re:Don't be silly

[iNaya (1049686)]

Stupid things getting confiscated happens a lot. I've accidentally brought scissors onto a plane while my girlfriend had make-up and beauty cream stolen from her. (It wasn't in the mandatory plastic bag (don't see how a plastic bag makes make-up less dangerous though)). By focussing on too many things, security actually drops because it allows more error for more dangerous things to get on. They wasted so much time arguing with my girlfriend they didn't actually catch what was in my jacket as it went through the scanner.

Re:Don't be silly

[clickclickdrone (964164)]

>my girlfriend had make-up and beauty cream stolen from her
I blame modern advertising techniques. When you have ads on TV with blinged up rappers saying 'When I is vexed wiv me dry hands man, I get me some Oil of Olay - it's da bomb' - it's no wonder security staff get confused.

Re:Don't be silly

[Mike89 (1006497)]

Stupid things getting confiscated happens a lot.

Heh, just over 10 years ago (when I was ~8), I went on a plane with two pairs of scissors on my pencil case (in Australia). They were allowed on, but for safety reasons they gave them to Mum before we boarded... How times have changed!

Re:Don't be silly

[EdIII (1114411)]

I can top that :)

20 Years ago I went on a plane with DYNAMITE baby!

I was a kid, and all I wanted to do was to get some M80's and M160's back to my school for some good harmless fun. I stuck it in my desktop computer (no really), in a bag between the hard drives and the floppy disk where there was still 2x5 1/4 bays.

I figured what is the worst they could do to a 12 year old?

Of course.. now as an adult I realize that putting about 2 dozen firecrackers into the overhead compartment was just a little unwise.

Re:Don't be silly

[EsbenMoseHansen (731150)]

don't see how a plastic bag makes make-up less dangerous though

The argument is that the liquids they are afraid of are volatile and hard to contain in cans, and thus you would see condensation on the inside of the bag.

Incidentally, do you know how many terrorist attacks that airport security at check-in have prevented? :)

Re:

[Eivind (15695)]

Really ? Can you show me a source for your claim that *that* is the "official" reason ?

Sounds downrigth ludicruos to me, and I've never seen that particular claim before.

First, it's not true that it's hard to make a can that is sealed well enough that no vapors, certainly not enough to cause visible condensation would escape.

Second, condensation happens on cold surfaces, if the plastic-bag is the same temperature as everything else (I don't see why it wouldn't be) there'd be little condensation even if ther

Re:

[cheater512 (783349)]

But what about the terrorists? :P

It doesnt have to make any sense.
Just as long as the important people look like they are doing something.

Re:Don't be silly

[mea37 (1201159)]

If the bag was sealed at a warmer temperature, or with a humidity level that the current temperature cannot keep in gas form, condensation will occur regardless of whether or not there was anything dangerous in the bag.

I'd say GP has a point -- the idea that the bag is there so they can see condensation sounds bogus.

According to the TSA's website, the reason for the bag is to impose an overall limit on the amount of liquid carried by each passenger. (Which as near as anyone seems able to tell is also silly, but that's another matter...)

Re:Don't be silly

[morgan_greywolf (835522)]

The argument is that the liquids they are afraid of are volatile and hard to contain in cans, and thus you would see condensation on the inside of the bag.

Not all liquid explosives are volatile, but it helps. Anything with enough nitrogen content is able to be turned into an explosive, it's just a matter of how much work is involved for each compound.

That being said, suffice it to say that I managed to get a can of lighter fluid on a plane, even after they put the restrictions on liquids in place. And I wasn't even trying to get it on the plane, it was just in a bag I was carrying and I didn't even think about. But apparently, it was missed by the screeners who were far more interested in stealing my bottles of Pantene and my can of Axe.

Re:

[grrrl (110084)]

The plastic bag is simply so they can eyeball all your liquids/gels at once, easily.

Re:Don't be silly

[LucidBeast (601749)]

Aren't the security check waiting rooms, which are crammed with hundreds of explosive travelers, blowing up daily? I don't know, because I'm afraid to google explosions and airport security.

Re:Don't be silly

[malsdavis (542216)]

People taking their own drinks on planes is a real threat ...to the profits of Airport Operators who make A LOT of money selling duty-free retail space.

Re:Don't be silly

[Dorceon (928997)]

You can get a breast milk latte at Starbucks now? Why wasn't I told?

Re:Don't be silly

[aclarke (307017)]

Yes you can. COW breast milk.

I'm sorry. That was an udderly lame comment.

So....

[by Anonymous Coward]

.... it detects foreign objects? a tampon? or only objects RIGHT under clothes? Cause we all seen news of drugs hidden inside human orifices.

Preserves privacy

[robably (1044462)]

...so long as you redefine privacy to mean exclusively "photographic images of your body", and exclude anything else including the contents of your own pockets. That's a pretty narrow definition of privacy. So narrow, in fact, that it stops being privacy at all.

Re:Preserves privacy

[jotok (728554)]

It's like the "so long as you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to fear" argument: the definition of "right" is getting so narrow as to be ridiculous.

To use a networking metaphor...Our model of government is supposed to be one where the government's rights are whitelisted and everything else is by default given to the citizen, but we're moving towards a state where the government is blacklisting OUR actions.

"Right" and "wrong" have, sadly, never had absolute definitions and have proven to be quite malleable in tyrannies past.

Re:Preserves privacy

[mpe (36238)]

It's like the "so long as you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to fear" argument: the definition of "right" is getting so narrow as to be ridiculous.

Yet interestingly I don't see politicans, civil servants, CEO, etc being first in line to tell everyone exactly what they are doing.

Re:Preserves privacy

[mrbluze (1034940)]

...so long as you redefine privacy to mean exclusively "photographic images of your body", and exclude anything else including the contents of your own pockets. That's a pretty narrow definition of privacy. So narrow, in fact, that it stops being privacy at all. [ Reply to This ]

Have a bit of pity on the people who have to look at the pictures all day. That's an aweful lot of disgusting bodies to look at for just a few good looking ones!

Re:Preserves privacy

[robably (1044462)]

That's an aweful lot of disgusting bodies to look at for just a few good looking ones!

If I remember correctly, I think that's part of Operant Conditioning [wikipedia.org] - producing a reward only occasionally is more effective at reinforcing a behaviour than rewarding the behaviour every time. After you've conditioned the rat to press the bar to receive a food pellet you reduce the frequency of the reward and it ends up pressing the food bar manically in the hope of receiving another. Thus in this case, hot chicks stand out from fat birds and the operator is stimulated to continue looking to find another.

Re:Preserves privacy

[EdIII (1114411)]

Is this the same reason why some men become gynecologists?

They go through a few miles of bad clam just in the hope of getting to that few inches of celebrity/supermodel paradise?

Re:Preserves privacy

[Eivind (15695)]

Indeed. Some of us have the oposite priority even.

I don't particularily care very much if someone gets a glimpse of me naked somehow. I look like an average 32 year old male, if that's someones particular thing, more power to them.

I -DO- however strongly oppose massive registers being maintained about my every movement, with name and address, class I'm flying, how and when I paid for my ticket, if it's a return or single, where I booked it, how many pieces of luggage I checked in, who I'm traveling with, who I phoned the last 2 years and for how long we chatted, and and and and....

Everything stored and collected in massive secret government-databases to be used for screening for "terrorists".

What happened to presumption of innocense ? Since when is it okay to collect data on EVERYONE because SOME may be guilty ?

jpg

[stjobe (78285)]

jpegs or you're lying!

Judging by this picture

[Chrisq (894406)]

The "naught bits" might not be very clear, but a lot of people would be unhappy with security guards looking at images of you like the one shown in this article [mindcontrolforums.com]. Would you be happy with some guy looking at a picture of your teenage daughter like this?

Re:

[Loconut1389 (455297)]

Or this one
http://www.iancavalier.com/spiralnotepad/images/2007/millimeter-wave-backscatter.jpg [iancavalier.com]
from when this first hit slashdot.

Re:

[Bloke down the pub (861787)]

You mean the one of the guy with the knife hidden in the newspaper?

Considering how image conscious teenagers are, I don't think she'd be happy being made to look like a cross between a colthes store mannequin and Krtyten from Red Dwarf.

Re:Judging by this picture

[Eivind (15695)]

Actually, that'd not bother me at all. (though it'll be a few years before any of my daugthers enter their teenage-years)

I don't at all get the obsession with body-shape in American culture. Those images give you an idea comparable to what you get on any beach, besides, it's just a human body, most of them are quite similar, there is some minor variations, but really, it's not -that- interesting. People who -do- want to look at nude girls (or boys) have a limitless supply already, and that is perfectly fine.

It bothers me a lot more that the idiots think they need to know every tiny thing you bring with you, be it a can of Coke, a tube of toothpaste or a key. I can live with the metal-detectors, though frankly I don't approve of even those.

As for the "airplane as missile" threat, that is trivially handled: Install a locked, secure, cockpit-door, end of story. It's not as if: "Fly the plane into that building, or I'll kill this passenger" will work. (the pilots would just refuse, it makes no sense to kill everyone, including that passenger to prevent the killing of a passenger)

Besides, I have the same ridicolous restrictions when flying on a 20-seat plane flying say Anda - Bergen, there isn't even a potential target within the RANGE of the airplane. If someone *does* take over the plane, best they could do would be killing everyone aboard, plus a single-digit count of people on the ground if they do their aiming well, frankly, this "threat" does not worry me much.

Frankly, if your goal in life is to manage to somehow kill 20 people, there are easier ways. Defending against them all ain't worth it, because any marginal increase in security is more than counterbalanced by MASSIVE losses of freedom.

I'd rather live free and have a 1:1million chance of dying as the result of a terrorist-attack, rather than live in a cage, checked every step of my travels, and have a 1:2million chance of dying as the result of a terrorist-attack, both risks are negligible anyway. (if the adiminstration cared about real risk they should start the "war on diabetes" or "war on traffic" or "war on obesity", all of which kill more people a month than terrorism does a decade)

Re:

[SharpFang (651121)]

'cause then you'd be able to disguise a weapon of mass destruction as a mere tool of rape.

Schiphol Amsterdam using same kind of technology

[Tjeerd (976354)]

Last year they installed a device at Airport Schiphol in Amsterdam, that can also scan through your clothes to see what's beneath it. Read the article [url=http://www.dutchamsterdam.nl/174-amsterdam-airport-body-scanning]here[/url]. Some articles on the internet claim that "The Security Scan scanner is based on a technology that uses millimeterwaves. The waves will persist over clothing, and are reflected by the skin. Also other materials, such as plastic, metal, wood, iron, ceramics, etc. reflect the waves. This will help to detect suspicious objects." More information can also be found here [safeviewinc.com].

Re:Schiphol Amsterdam using same kind of technolog

[billsf (34378)]

Schiphol has had this technology for a few years now. The 'technicians' watch the show in a curtained box some distance from the gates and relay findings to security. When I asked if it was a 'sub-millimeter' system, I was told so, with a smile. They also have infrared that can spot people with a fever, who cannot fly. This system is passive. This device operates at about 10uM or 30THz.

BTW, 1mm = 300GHz and a true 'T-ray' is at about 1000GHz or 1/3mm.

Aluminum foil

[pesc (147035)]

Time to make some aluminum foil underpants to go with your hat.

Re:Aluminum foil

[siddesu (698447)]

meh, n00b. we've had these for years now.

Re:Aluminum foil

[EdIII (1114411)]

They modded you funny, but maybe it should be insightful.

Just how many women do you think would pick up a pair of Privacy Britches (TM) to go through the check process? I am betting 99.9999%, with the very small percentage being nymphomaniacs, exhibitionists, and freaky sadistic grannies.

On Another Note... How many men would be stuffing their pants with aluminum sausages out of vanity?

Just possibly there is a product in the works here.

Re:Aluminum foil

[EdIII (1114411)]

I DARE THEM. No, I DOUBLE DARE THEM! :)

I always eat a bunch of Habernero taco sauce and bunch of spicy burritos/tacos before I go through airport security. I promise the guy who attempts to probe me will be talking about it when he is 90 years old.

Unless they are using 90 year old guys to give the tests, in which case it might kill him.

It's a threat to privacy no matter how you look at

[jay-za (893059)]

Any deice that attempts to see things you have decided to conceal is a threat to privacy. Just because I choose to conceal something doesn't make me a terrorist, I could be concealing an external bladder bag (or any other kind of medical device), women (and guys, I suppose) may have given themselves some non-surgical "enhancements". There are all sorts of things I may be concealing that are no threat to anyone, but could embarrass me if they were made known to others.

No, the question here isn't whether this is a threat to privacy or not - it is. The question here should be is it a threat we're prepared to accept. How much of our privacy are we going to give up for a sense of security?

Let me be the first to say...

[thegrassyknowl (762218)]

...owwwww my sperm!

OH wait.. that was an F-ray!

Bah

[Mantaar (1139339)]

They can do what they want, but they'll never see through my tinfoil overall. I even have a catheter, so I never have to go pee. They've got cameras in the toilets, too!

Too late...

[Yvanhoe (564877)]

Planes hijacking using knifes cannot happen again. The 9/11 was a one-time event. Before it, in case of plane hi-jacking, passengers sat quietly, waiting for the hijackers to finish their negotiations. After 9/11, taking back the control of a plane at the risk of getting hurt is the most intelligent course of action. This is what apparently happened on UAF93. Now you can't hijack a plane without anything short of an automatic gun.

All this craziness about uber-security is just useless, the only risk today is the risk of bombing and it is already hard enough to bring a big engine in the cabin. Bombings are far easier by bringing a car full of explosives into a crowded area...

Re:Too late...

[EdIII (1114411)]

Once the error rate for these programs gets over the error rates for humans, I feel a lot of this technology can be brought in more places, with less loss of privacy.

Man you are missing something here and it is HUGE. What about BOFA, Bastard Operator From Hell?

Somebody has to administrate and perform maintenance on that equipment. Every single surveillance system ever created has been abused in this way. Not just those systems either. Businesses that deal with anything that is expected to be private like developing photographs, medical records, etc.

Assuming that the interface is that restricted, it would help eliminate the embarrassment of looking the person in the eye. I will give you that. It does not however eliminate the loss of privacy by any stretch of the imagination, it only shifts it someplace else.

There is a case in the news right now where a private detective in California is being charged for invading the privacy of celebrities by bribing and coercing the employees responsible for safe guarding this private data. This is where I get the BOFA's. People who are responsible and put in a position of trust that end up abusing people horribly.

No, I'm sorry. The only solution is to stubbornly, and I do mean to the death, fight for our privacy tooth and nail. Never agree with, nor participate with any such system that eliminates your privacy in this way.

Do they have a right to try to make me walk through one? Sure. Do I have a right to where lead lined clothing going through the airport? Absolutely.

Preserves privacy?

[DrXym (126579)]

How can anybody claim that something that can tell if I'm wearing nipple rings or a Prince Albert, or a variety of medical devices from colostomy bags to artificial breasts "preserves privacy"?

T-ray

[Wilson_6500 (896824)]

It's a really unfortunate choice of names, this "T-ray." Inevitably, it wants to make a person associate these waves with x-rays. Photons are photons, but as far as these guys go healthwise, it's pretty certain they'll have more in common with radio or microwaves than x-rays. Heck, the reason they call them x-rays and gamma rays in the first place is because they're in the regime where it makes sense to talk about photons as particles, rather than waves. And they call them "radio waves" and "microwaves" because THEY are down in the more wave-like regime. Just call it "millimeter wave" and be done with it, before we get people claiming they're getting ARS from T-ray devices.

(Let us not forget that a single terahertz-range photon carries about 4meV of energy. That's little-m milli, not big-M mega. These guys might cause some heating, but they're not going to be ionizing many atoms in your body.)

Re:

[Chrisq (894406)]

Also, it doesn't help google searches. You will find plenty of sites selling trays if you search for t-ray!

"Security"

[$pearhead (1021201)]

Am I the only one wondering, for example, why the hell they're selling glass bottles in the shops past the security check (just smash one of those and you have a potentially deadly weapon) when they won't even let anyone bring their own beverages?

So what if I wear metallic clothing ?

[mbone (558574)]

These devices use sub mm wavelengths, which means that they would be stopped by metallic meshes with a mesh size of 0.1 mm or so.
(I have seen women's party dresses with meshes like this).

So, what if I wear a metallic mesh shirt or coat ? Or pants ? So much for the T5000.

BTW, has any physicist ever used the term "T rays" ? What dumb-ass marketing guy thought that up ?

Oblig Star Trek

[itlurksbeneath (952654)]

After reading TFA and some of the linked material, it came to mind that if a small T-Ray scanner that would fit in ones hand were invented, it'd certianly have most of the capabilities of the tricorder [wikipedia.org] from Star Trek. Identify materials, scan tissue for disease, etc. Interesting...

Let's be sensible and remember,

[chris_sawtell (10326)]

That you can avoid all the insane inconveniences of airports and aeroplanes by travelling on a train. Tiny carbon footprint in comparison too. Perhaps it's time for the airport security industry to be taught that lesson.

Follow the money

[bytesex (112972)]

Lots of people look at your bits with your permission; doctors, correction facility officers, the military, visitation people at airports. You could get around the awkwardness easily by establishing a code of conduct, and special procedures (like, I only want to be seen by a woman - ok, get in this special line here). But it would be expensive, and it would add a notch to the paycheck of the otherwise menial job of airport security officer. This technology is only being developed to avert payrises. Because T-ray /will/ be there at some point.

The amazing strip-search scanner

[dark-br (473115)]

Link with pictures here [thznetwork.org]

Privacy Not Preserved

[Doc Ruby (173196)]

What I'm carrying beneath my clothes is private. My privacy is not limited to just how well Nature has gifted the size and shape of my body's outline.

This device could be better for some limited security tasks like scanning for weapons at building entrances. But let's not pretend that it's a cureall for invading privacy somehow without invading privacy. If we do. then it'll be in use everywhere, and privacy will be as gone as the emperor's new clothes.