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House IP Leader Endorses P2P Blocking

Posted by Soulskill on Fri Mar 07, 2008 03:58 PM
from the peer-to-peer-prohibition dept.
Technical Writing Geek points out an Ars Technica report on comments from Representative Howard Coble (R-NC), who sits on the House Subcommittee on Courts, the Internet, and Intellectual Property. In a recent editorial, Coble attempts to discourage P2P file sharing among young people, and praises Ohio University for its ban on P2P applications last year. Coble also suggests that identity theft is a great danger from file sharing. Public Knowledge is running a similar analysis, which argues against the main points from the editorial.
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[+] Technology: Ohio University Blocks P2P File Sharing 425 comments
After receiving the highest number of notices from the RIAA about P2P file sharing, Ohio University has announced a policy that restricts all fire sharing on the campus network. Some file-sharing programs that could trigger action are Ares, Azureus, BitTorrent, BitLord, KaZaA, LimeWire, Shareaza and uTorrent. Claiming that this effort is 'to ensure that every student, faculty member and researcher has access to the computer resources they need,' is this another nail in the coffin of internet freedom in American universities or a needed step to prevent illegal fire sharing?
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  • ID Theft? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by calebt3 (1098475) on Friday March 07 2008, @04:00PM (#22680722)
    Excuse me? Aside from the standard malware risks and stupid users, how is P2P an ID Theft risk?
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      It's just a FUD tactic, much like "You have no guarantee that open source software is 'safe'" and "Nobody ever got fired for buying $RESPECTED_MANUFACTURER"
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        Isn't there a way to demand that politicians explain the idiotic things they claim? If there is not, there should be, and then if they are proven wrong, they should be fined and beaten! Publicly!
        • Re:ID Theft? (Score:5, Informative)

          by KublaiKhan (522918) on Friday March 07 2008, @04:11PM (#22680884) Homepage Journal
          Yes, it's called the "voting box". If you don't like 'em, then vote 'em out.
          • Re:ID Theft? (Score:5, Insightful)

            by muindaur (925372) on Friday March 07 2008, @04:22PM (#22681024)
            Don't forget to call them out on their FUD in public to prevent others voting for them.
          • Well, unfortunately I don't live in NC and so I can't. Yet this dummy could affect the whole nation.
          • To what? Another similar one? Face it, any mainstream candidate that has any chance of being elected falls in the same trap. Republicans, and Democrats both and also some independents. And until we can either get a large Pirate party here in the US or get some tech-savvy senators/representatives who can cut through the FUD that the RIAA has created we won't have a large enough majority to matter. It also doesn't help that I have never, never seen anyone (who was very popular) say much about P2P or other tec
          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            We are talking about America here. Voting boxes are mostly empty.

            I'm from Australia where they are always full and voting makes a difference.
            • Re:ID Theft? (Score:5, Insightful)

              by sm62704 (957197) on Friday March 07 2008, @04:36PM (#22681192) Journal
              The voting box is broken when the media doesnt spread the news

              The media doesn't spread the news because they are owned by the same corporations that "contribute" heavily to both "mainstream candidates" (IE, both the Republican and Democrat wings of the Republicrat Party) in every major race.

              When Nader was running as a "third party" (Green) candidate, he wasn't on the ballot in enough states to gain the Presidency even if he won every state he ran in, and the media slobbered all over him. The Libertarians were on the ballot in 49 states, yet the media said nary a word about him.

              Your corporate overlords, most of whom are foreign (Sony, BP, Shell, etc) aren't about to let go of their power. We, the People, lost and lost big a long time ago.

              That said, I still vote, but split my vote between "third party" candidates. Because voting for a candidate that will vote against your interests is worse than wasting a vote, it's just plain stupid. People don't stay away from the polls because they're apathetic, they stay away because they know they have no real voice. Both candidates against legalizing something you love? Why vote?
              • People don't stay away from the polls because they're apathetic, they stay away because they know they have no real voice. Both candidates against legalizing something you love? Why vote?

                No! That simply can't be it. It's apathy! Bad voter! BAD! There is absolutely no way it's due to having appalling choices or ones that are so similar to each other that they're effectively interchangeable. It also has nothing to do with an endless cycle of "whomever gets voted in winds up screwing the people" or politic
            • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

              You hit the nail right square on the head. Who cares when your choice is "Lobby loving back stabber A" or "Lobby loving back stabber B"? If it end up Clinton VS McCain,I just won't bother. Clinton will sell us out to Hollywood,while keeping the war going to show she is tough,while McCain will sell us out to the defense contractors,while keeping the war going to show he is serious or them thar terrorists. Either one will just be a big old pile of suck. I am just glad Huckabee dropped out,as I live in AR,and
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      Well, at least he didn't say that P2P would put pornography in the hands of the children... oh wait

      Well, at least the kiddie-porn people would be stopped if there was no file sharing... right?

      Well, at least Ms Spears would be able to pay her medical bills if there were no file sharing... there, we can all rest happy now.

      WTF? This is just an attempt to make it seem ok to filter some things. Slowly but surely they will work on filtering everything for us so we won't have to worry about criminals - except thos
    • By linking the two big bogeymen of the internet, they're trying to justify more regulation. It's the same crap they pull with buying SUV's == supporting terrorists, etc.
    • by a-zarkon! (1030790) on Friday March 07 2008, @04:09PM (#22680850)
      Don't ask silly questions! What don't you get about, "think of the children?"

      "Think of the children" is the Congressional equivalent of the Jedi Mind Trick; "these are not the droids you're looking for." Upon further consideration, he may have substituted "Identity Theft" instead of "terrorists" since he's talking about the Interweb. I applaud his restraint in not using any analogy to tubes. This is progress.

    • Re:ID Theft? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 07 2008, @04:12PM (#22680902)
      Here's a fun hobby of mine. Open up Limewire, select documents, search for "resume.doc". Watch in shock and awe at the stupidity of people as resume after resume appears.

      Then have more fun. Right click on one, browse host.

      Watch in amazement as you now have access to their pictures, word documents, cookies, anything you might find interesting. All because they're too stupid to properly define the Sharing folders when they started using Limewire.

      An ID theft's wet dream, all thanks to P2P.
      • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

        by Anonymous Coward
        I save my resume as 'resume.odf,' so there!
      • Re:ID Theft? (Score:5, Informative)

        by ACMENEWSLLC (940904) on Friday March 07 2008, @05:58PM (#22682262) Homepage
        Where I work we have a separate, open, WIFI network with 100Mb/s bandwidth to the Internet. Download an ISO in minutes. This attracts a lot of people who park around the campus. It's amazing how many people have read/write access open to their entire hard drive. It's amazing how much personal information, such as what type of adult movies and mp3 they enjoy, is left wide open.

        Most of these people have some sort of P2P client installed such as Limewire.

        Windows should warn you if you have your entire C: drive shared read/write to guest and open through the firewall. In fact, I think they should remove that capability all together. Guest never should have full read/write access to c:\.
    • Re:ID Theft? (Score:4, Informative)

      by thewils (463314) on Friday March 07 2008, @04:18PM (#22680972) Journal

      how is P2P an ID Theft risk

      'cos the idiot users don't realize they are sharing their entire disk.
      • I don't know of any p2p software that shares the entire disk by default. Torrent software only shares stuff you specifically tell it to.
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        While this is true, the risks are equal to people using Internet Explorer to look at porn.
        So should we ban porn? Should we ban IE because it's easily exploited?

        And while limewire and kazaa (and the many other programs) have a a good chance of infecting you, what of bit torrent, it's quite a bit safer. Why should it be banned when it's has so many good uses.

        (Yes I realize you don't agree with the argument.)

      • Just because someone is as Family Guy puts it well, "Borderline Retarded" and happens to get a virus from P2P doesn't mean P2P is a haven for identity thieves. That's like saying that because there is terrorism in the middle east and US soldiers have been killed there may be terrorism in the US. It's not really something that has a correlation :)
  • just like guns (Score:5, Insightful)

    by KevMar (471257) on Friday March 07 2008, @04:02PM (#22680744) Homepage Journal
    Guns dont kill people, people kill people.

    We should outlaw cars too, look at all the people they kill.

    I know this has nothing to do about murder, but they are blaming the technology for the crimes. If you get rid of P2P, something new will replace it.

    Thats assuming you can get rid of P2P. P2P will not go away any time soon.
    • Re:just like guns (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Itninja (937614) on Friday March 07 2008, @04:12PM (#22680904) Homepage
      Not that I want to jump on the gun control bandwagon, or that I want to block P2P transfers, but....

      Your comparison of gun and cars is a bit flawed, IMO. Guns were invented to take lives; that is their purpose in the universe. Whereas cars are tools that countless uses and, Death Race 2000 fantasy aside, none of them are to kill people. I don't want to start a flame war here, just something I noticed....
      • Re:just like guns (Score:5, Insightful)

        by MBGMorden (803437) on Friday March 07 2008, @04:19PM (#22680984)
        Guns were invented for that, but that has nothing to do with their current applications. There are many non-violent uses of guns that preclude that, and a technology should never be classified as to it's claimed "purpose". Indeed, P2P (first made famous by Napster) WAS invented to pirate media, but it's now also been purposed towards many non-illegal things as well. Neither should be subject to any banning attempts based on "what they were meant for" originally.
        • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

          What are the non-violent uses of a gun?

          Paper weight?

          Using a gun is always a violent act.
          • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

            Well as someone who is heavily into target shooting (I fire at least 5,000 rounds per year in a non-violent manner), I'd have to say you're wrong.
          • Re:just like guns (Score:5, Insightful)

            by orclevegam (940336) on Friday March 07 2008, @05:01PM (#22681534) Journal

            What are the non-violent uses of a gun?

            Paper weight?

            Using a gun is always a violent act.
            Competition shooting comes to mind. There are also "violent" acts one can commit with a gun that are perfectly legal, such as hunting. Furthermore, guns can be used defensively, in which case shooting an attacker is a protected right, and perfectly reasonable thing to do. The alternative is for everyone to carry around knives in which case we'll probably have a lot more instances of both attacker and victim bleeding to death after stabbing each other.
                • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

                  I take it you've never had somebody break into your house. The last time it happened to me, the guy who broke in was a drunk college student looking for the party next door. He thought that his buddies had played a trick on him, locking him out. In this case, despite my extreme annoyance at the imposition, I am quite glad that this was not the last mistake he'll ever make. (Instead he got a police escort to a place suitable for sobering up---a holding cell I presume.) Ending a life is not something to
      • The "solely to kill" idea is a complete farce.

        Why are there no substantial restrictions on the ownership of bows, crossbows, or even powered repeating crossbows? (the last is very fun to shoot)

        Not only do they exist solely to kill, but they kill quieter than a silenced gun(which are generally illegal to own).
      • Re:just like guns (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Solandri (704621) on Friday March 07 2008, @06:01PM (#22682276)

        Your comparison of gun and cars is a bit flawed, IMO. Guns were invented to take lives; that is their purpose in the universe.
        I'm assuming you're talking about guns designed for shooting at people, not hunting rifles or competition shooting. The purpose of such guns is not to take lives. Their purpose is to degrade an opposing force's fighting capability. Often the best way to do that is not to kill, but to wound. If you kill someone, the opposing army just leaves his corpse and carries on. If you wound somebody, he's on the ground screaming and demoralizing his peers. They have to devote resources to carrying him back from the front lines. Once he's back, they have to devote medical resources to treat him. Afterwards they have to devote even more economic resources to assist him through his recovery (which may last a lifetime).

        From a strictly military standpoint, wounding an enemy is much, much more advantageous than killing him. It's one of the reasons NATO dropped from 7.62mm rounds to 5.56mm rounds - the smaller bullets tended to enter the target and tumble, causing more wounding. The 7.62mm rounds tended to pass straight through, meaning the most effective way to use it was to kill. Guns aren't designed to kill, they're designed to intimidate, often working even when no shots are fired or (if shots are fired) nobody is even hit. The decision to use the weapon to instead kill lies with the shooter.

    • I wish I could download guns. :(
  • by Iphtashu Fitz (263795) on Friday March 07 2008, @04:08PM (#22680838)
    "Hey, X can be used in illegal ways, therefore we should make it illegal!"

    Let's see, that can apply to everything from raw sugar to automobiles. Quick, file legislation to make them all illegal!

    Compromised Windows systems are being used to flood the internet with spam in violation of various state and federal laws. Outlaw Windows!

    Why cant these congresscritters get it through their thick skulls that there are plenty of legitimate uses for P2P, even in a university environment. A university in Holland is using bittorrent to manage 6500 workstations [torrentfreak.com] and it's saving them time and money. The university I work at uses SystemImager [systemimager.org] on its high performance research cluster to manage the software on all the compute nodes. SystemImager supports the use of bittorrent as a transport mechanism. If these aren't legal, legitimate, and highly useful implementations of bittorrent then I don't know what is. These are just two working examples of P2P being used in university environments in responsible ways, but I'm sure those stuffed shirts in Washington could care less.
    • Sorry, but I really find it hard to believe that these people really are clueless.

      I find it easier to believe that the cluelessness is simply a temporary condition caused by big wads of money being put into their hands by shady lobby groups.
      • Oh it could be either one. Sometime people hear that so and so is evil and will come out against it without even knowing what it is. In this case this moron obviously doesn't have a clue how P2P works or he would realize that there is no way to block it completely.
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      Why cant these congresscritters get it through their thick skulls that there are plenty of legitimate uses for P2P, even in a university environment.

      Just to play the devil's advocate: Could it be because the supposed benefits are outweighed by the known and (currently) uncontrollable abuses (piracy)? A poor analogy might be control of drugs. Certain drugs have benefits, but the negative abuses by the public encourage total prohibition. Yes, I know it doesn't stop people from doing drugs... but I'm sure it

      • by Iphtashu Fitz (263795) on Friday March 07 2008, @04:45PM (#22681318)
        Just to play the devil's advocate: Could it be because the supposed benefits are outweighed by the known and (currently) uncontrollable abuses (piracy)?

        Show me an independent report from a neutral party that shows the level of P2P piracy outweighs legitimate uses and I'd accept your argument. Better yet, show me that these idiots in Washington have read such a report.

        I've already shown a couple valid uses for P2P. Here are a few others:
        • Content delivery networks like Akamai that help keep popular websites responsive
        • The delivery of software updates in everything from operating systems to games
        • Peer applications like Groove are built upon a foundation of P2P
        • Legal music/movie downloads from a growing number of websites

        I bet that most people don't realize that by simply visiting popular websites like Google you're relying on P2P to some extent. They may not be using well known products like bittorrent or limewire but the data moving around the back end of search engines, the images you see on websites like Microsofts, and even the videos you watch on a site like youtube, are all distributed in part through P2P systems of some sort. They may be entirely custom built or they may rest on top of a protocol like bittorrent. The bottom line is that there's a lot of data being transferred legally via P2P for a number of purposes. I bet if somebody could come up with a realistic and impartial set of numbers you'd be surprised at how much legitimate P2P traffic there is compared to illegal P2P traffic.
  • by Apple Acolyte (517892) on Friday March 07 2008, @04:10PM (#22680872)
    Let me preface this by pointing out I'm a generally conservative young Republican. We're in a generational battle with our parents and grandparents and (more directly) the politicians that come from them over redistribution of our wealth and misappropriation of our technology. They want to put the screws to young people to maintain control, whether it's economic control (in the case of robbing the young to pay the old Social Security and Medicare), or entertainment control (draconian legislation in favor of the media cartels), or electronic expression control (clamping down on the freedoms enjoyed currently online). And we'll continue to lose this battle unless there's a shift in the political paradigms over these issues.
    • by sm62704 (957197) on Friday March 07 2008, @04:43PM (#22681292) Journal
      You're fighting the wrong battle, kid. The fight is between those in power, the corporations and their lobbyists, and we, the people.

      And you're helping them fight us.

      BTW, I'm a geezer.

      It's said that if you're a conservative when you're young you have no heart. If you're a liberal when you're old you have no brains. I'd say if you consider yourself boxed into outdated ideas like "liberal" and "conservative" you have neither brains nor heart.

      When I was in my tewnties, marijuana was going to be legal as soon as my generation got in power. Well, so much for THAT generational battle!
  • e-mail (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Maestro485 (1166937) on Friday March 07 2008, @04:10PM (#22680874)
    If we're going to ban software used in identity theft I guess we can kiss the browser and e-mail client goodbye.
    • If we're going to ban software used in identity theft I guess we can kiss the browser and e-mail client goodbye.
      Along with image editing program and a slew of other apps. But why stop at software? We should ban printers! Can't make a fake ID with a good printer!

      Heck with it, let's just ban computers altogether! Are you with me?

      Oh, wait...

    • And lets see what else....

      Windows (For being easy to compremize and turn into a bot)
      Apache (For hosting some identity theft websites)
      Linux (For running Apache)
      Unix (For also running Apache)
      OS X (For being Unix)
      Any text editor/word processor (For giving the criminals the ability to type fradulant websites)
  • Some days I wish the Capitol Building had one of those carnival signs next to the door. YOU MUST BE THIS SMART TO RIDE THIS RIDE.

    Really? Identity theft over P2P? Anyone who identity is so weak they could lose it by grabbing a torrent of Ubuntu probably has bigger problems than this congressdroid wants to address.
  • At my university and it did not stop anyone from using P2P programs ... they just blocked certain ones and everyone just used different ones ... waste of time and money if you ask me.
  • No surprises here (Score:5, Informative)

    by Enlarged to Show Tex (911413) on Friday March 07 2008, @04:27PM (#22681092)
    Follow the money - Coble's just taking care of his patrons [opensecrets.org].

    Hrm, who do I see here? The RIAA, ASCAP, the National Association of Broadcasters, and the American IP Law Association, all in his top 10.

    The only surprise here is how long it's taken him to get around to taking care of them...
  • Your leadership in these past decades will be legendary.
  • Why stop there? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by nurb432 (527695) on Friday March 07 2008, @04:40PM (#22681250) Homepage Journal
    Why not just ban IP communications altogether?

    Or write-able drives? Or photocopiers? Or word of mouth... Or books.. Hell, lets ban knowledge.
  • Blocking is USELESS (Score:3, Informative)

    by CodeBuster (516420) on Friday March 07 2008, @05:05PM (#22681584)
    Unless they want to disallow encrypted traffic (i.e. any traffic that they cannot decipher) entirely or squelch the amounts then what are they going to do about it? Probably nothing. It is also useful to look at the whole P2P blocking issue from an economic standpoint. What are the interests of the ISPs in this? They would like to preserve, to the extent possible, the perception of "good speed" for all of their users which might imply some mitigation measures merely to improve that value proposition for their customers...up to a point. However, the mitigation measures will have increasing marginal costs as more and more detection, protocol analysis, and monitoring hardware and software is purchased and installed until it gets to a point where it is cheaper to add more bandwidth (i.e. network capacity) than it is to invest in ever more expensive mitigation and monitoring equipment. The ISPs would also like to be protected from liability for what happens on their networks (or at least they should want this if they are smart...the MAFIAA lawyers would LOVE to be able to sue AT&T and Verizon for "allowing" P2P to continue on their networks) both as a hedge against expensive copyright infringement lawsuits AND even MORE burdensome government regulation of their business (i.e they are regulated already but additional regulation and the attendant costs would be unwelcome indeed to the ISPs and their investors). Finally, they would like to increase their customer base and if "content" is what brings in more paying ISP customers then secretly (although these companies would never admit it publicly) they would probably prefer to preserve the status quo of P2P if that keeps their subscribers coming back each month with those fees.
  • Sadly (Score:4, Insightful)

    by BCW2 (168187) on Friday March 07 2008, @05:14PM (#22681688) Journal
    This old man has gone senile. As a voter in his district I will vote against him and I'm a conservative.
  • by JustNiz (692889) on Friday March 07 2008, @06:04PM (#22682300)
    >> ...and praises Ohio University for its ban on P2P applications last year.

    Its one thing for some old politician to not properly understand the technology that he is trying to ban, but one would think a university would be better educated than to assume ALL p2p traffic must be copyright infringment.
    • How is using bit torrent to obtain data that you would otherwise have to pay for any different from gathering up a thousand people, walking into Best Buy and walking out with all the music and software on the shelves?

      Because in the latter example, you're stealing material property. That crime is called theft. In the former example, you're copying data illegally -- that crime is called copyright infringement, and the difference is that nobody was deprived of a physical copy of the merchandise. Thievery me