Slashdot Log In
EU Plans to Require Biometrics for Visitors
Posted by
ScuttleMonkey
on Mon Feb 11, 2008 04:53 PM
from the tourism-killers dept.
from the tourism-killers dept.
bushwhacker2000 writes to tell us that the EU may soon be requiring travelers to provide biometric data before crossing into Europe. They are trying to soften the blow by offering "streamlined" services for frequent travelers but the end result seems the same. "The proposals, contained in draft documents examined by the International Herald Tribune and scheduled to go to the European Commission on Wednesday, were designed to bring the EU visa regime into line with a new era in which passports include biometric data. The commission, the EU executive, argues that migratory pressure, organized crime and terrorism are obvious challenges to the Union and that the bloc's border and visa policy needs to be brought up to date."
Related Stories
[+]
IT: Privacy Breach In Canadian Passport Application Site 197 comments
Joanna Karczmarek sends us news of a massive privacy breach in the Government of Canada passport website. "A security flaw in Passport Canada's website has allowed easy access to the personal information — including social insurance numbers, dates of birth and driver's license numbers — of people applying for new passports. ... The breach was discovered last week by an Ontario man completing his own passport application. He found he could easily view the applications of others by altering one character in the Internet address displayed by his Web browser."
[+]
FBI Prepares Vast Database of Biometrics 152 comments
MacRonin sends us to the Washington Post for a story about the FBI's plans for a large biometric identification database. The Post also has a chart detailing the characteristics of the different methods of identification. We discussed the ethics of a similar situation a few months ago. Quoting the Post:
"Next month, the FBI intends to award a 10-year contract that would significantly expand the amount and kinds of biometric information it receives. And in the coming years, law enforcement authorities around the world will be able to rely on iris patterns, face-shape data, scars and perhaps even the unique ways people walk and talk, to solve crimes and identify criminals and terrorists. The FBI will also retain, upon request by employers, the fingerprints of employees who have undergone criminal background checks so the employers can be notified if employees have brushes with the law."
[+]
News: US Government To Release Electronic Passport 289 comments
XueCast writes "The federal government has announced that they will release new electronic Passport cards in either April or May 2008. The cards could be read wirelessly from up to 20 feet away, which could reduce the waiting time at border checkpoints. Deputy Assistant Secretary Of State For Passport Services, Ann Barrett said, "As people are approaching a port of inspection, they can show the card to the reader, and by the time they get to the inspector, all the information will have been verified and they can be waved on through.""
[+]
Hardware: Hardware Based OpenID Service Available 119 comments
An anonymous reader writes "TrustBearer Labs has announced a new service that lets you use various hardware based security tokens like smartcards and biometric devices with OpenID. A hardware based connection to OpenID allows higher levels of security and makes it easier for the end-user to control their credentials. OpenID is a decentralized cross-site authentication system that has been gaining momentum for quite a while now with major supporters like AOL, Google and Microsoft already announced."
This discussion has been archived.
No new comments can be posted.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
Full
Abbreviated
Hidden
Loading... please wait.
Hmm (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Hmm (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, to be fair, we started it. [bbc.co.uk]
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Umm, both America and Europe now. Maybe it's time to refresh the tree of liberty with the blood of tyrants?
Re:Hmm (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Hmm (Score:5, Insightful)
Too bad most people in the modern world are perfectly content with losing their rights, provided that they still have their blackberries, TVs, cheap gasoline, houses and the illusion of security from terrorists.
Yeah, it's probably not as bad as all that, but it sure does feel that way sometimes, doesn't it?
Parent
Re:Hmm (Score:4, Interesting)
I think that a lot of people (myself included) who have problems with these "intrusive programs" aren't dealing with the realities of the situations that they are implemented to deal with. We're all worried about these frightful "what if" scenarios. We don't realize that there are some situations in which "intrusive" tactics are required. For example I do some community service in Long Beach, CA. The place where I do community service is a "very bad" neighborhood. The police are actively doing what they can to deal with the problems (drug dealing, auto burglaries, gang intimidation, etc.) Part of what the police do is they stop anybody who they see riding around on bikes. They stop the people to figure out who they are and what they are doing in the neighborhood. On one hand, doing so is probably a violation of some "inherent rights." On the other hand, the police are doing what they need to do to reduce the number of convincted criminals running around the neighborhood.
I don't really buy into the whole War on Terror crap that is being shoved down our throats because I am well read enough and educated enough to realize that our government created al Qaeda and our government actively supports governments that oppress their people to the point where they become "terrorists." So although "terrorist" might not be a good label to put on freedom fighters actively resisting the new world order, the label definitely does fit some organizations that are terrorizing communities right now, right here in the United States. Organizations like MS13, the Mexican mafia, etc.
Parent
Re:Hmm (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
All in all they ask for very litt
Re:Hmm (Score:4, Insightful)
It erodes your rights because the Government (at least here in the States, dunno about down under) would usually need probable cause before it could compel you to turn over biometrics (DNA, fingerprints, etc). I.e: You'd need to be accused of a crime with at least some underlying evidence before they could compel you to turn it over.
Ah, but now they can demand them to get a passport (or worse yet: drivers license). If you complain the answer will invariability be something along the lines of "Well, travel is a privilege and not a right". As if the Government is a parent that gets to dole out "permission" to the children before they can do stuff.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
ah sir, just bend over and keep your pants down - this is a two part deal - no two anal linings are alike and we need to be sure you didn't shove weapons of mass destruction up there!
ah, sir, is that what I think it is? I need to remove and confiscate this socket wrench set and duct tape... you can keep the hamster, but you really should transport pets in a pet container. Have a nice day!
Re: (Score:2)
Falls rome, falls the world (Score:5, Insightful)
One of the reasons I'm so worried to see the downward trend towards fascism in the United States is that in many ways Europe is not going in the opposite direction, it is simply lagging behind. Sure, I came to live in Switzerland, but I'm always seeing the same political abuses start to happen here just a few years after they start to happen in the United States, the same pro-corporations laws like the DMCA and the same trampling on people's rights, just a bit delayed.
Somehow this happening in the EU does not really surprise me.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
You know, I really don't think someone who lives in a country that actively collaborated with actual fascists should be slinging that kind of abuse at a country that fought them.
Oh, that's ripe! You're suggesting that the USA has clean hands, never supported or installed tyrants and corporatists, that Prescott Bush and his cronies didn't fund the Nazi war machine, that IBM had nothing to do with the Holocaust, that Operation Paperclip was just a liberation, that the fascists who attempted a coup on FDR met justice and were punished (look up Smedley Butler).
One of the most disappointing things about America the Brave, the Beautiful, is the perverse revisionist history that its pa
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Let ye who is without sin cast the first stone, and all that.
To the victors go the spoils, and better yet, they get to write the histories. That's the way it has always been, and is the way it will always be. One of the most disappointing things I notice about people in other countries (yes, especially Europeans of various stripes) is the fundamental hypocrisy t
Re:Falls rome, falls the world (Score:4, Insightful)
Are you aware that pretty much everyone who was involved in the success and failures of WWII is dead? That blaming a country now is like blaming America for the genocide of the native Americans whereas the people involved with the war in Iraq and the Patriot Act is alive and well.
I mean can you really blame people for something that happened before they were born?
Parent
Is the data stored on the passport? (Score:2, Interesting)
Of course, the human element on the manual c
Presumably... (Score:4, Insightful)
The chipped passports have a copy of what is printed on the face plus the extra biometric bits, all of which is also stored in a database, including reconciled entries for your previous visits through passport control. If the printed information or chip output differ from the central copy, they know it has been tampered with. This is not a terribly large departure from what already has been happening for decades when they scan your passport or punch in the number to pull up the record manually. The only difference in any of this is that they're adding a couple extra fields that don't really lend themselves to visual inspection. The cross-border data sharing and centralized collection within each country isn't remotely a new idea.
Besides, the more "secure" the document gets in the sense of positively linking it to the person carrying it, the less frightful the consequences of losing it. Not long ago, if you were roughly the same height/weight/age/gender, you could pretty well just pick a passport out of a stack provided by the hotel maid service. I mean, 6'1" brown/brown 180lbs 30yo male isn't a very precise set of biometrics, which doesn't sound too terrible until someone matching your description smuggles drugs into the country on your passport before you realize it went missing. If they can solve the question of "is this REALLY you" with an iris scan and a fingerprint, roughly 99.9% of the stolen document industry will disappear leaving only the most ridiculous James Bond worthy scenarios to worry about.
The bottom line is that the document is an assertion of the holder's identity. You have a personal interest in ensuring that you are the only one who can use it to successfully make that assertion.
Parent
Same result (Score:5, Funny)
Translation: we want Americans to know what it feels like when we try and enter their country.
Nit: Since when ... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
It's not like this stuff is new. It's just getting more complete - and intrusive.
These ARE documents used by governments to certify to other governments that they'll take this person back, exactly who it is they're certifying, and where he's been the last few years.
Copyright vs Security (Score:2, Interesting)
Let's open a can of worms... (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I also wonder whether fingerprints are truly unique? Perhaps there's just a very huge number of variants. It's not like it easy to be sure is it? Just because no-one's found duplicates doesn't mean there aren't any -- after all I bet no-one's even looking for dupes. What if they weren't unique?
What if each of us has at least one person out there with identical fingerprints? Food for though huh? Probably would even stand up in court if you had a good enough lawyer.
Re: (Score:2)
The level of paranoia is growing exponentially (Score:5, Insightful)
Personally, I think this nonsense has more to do with xenophobia, racism, and political control than with combating actual terrorism.
Re: (Score:2)
And the UK is currently leading the competition. I doubt if even China or North Korea could catch them now.
The USA wants a LOT more from the EU (Score:2, Interesting)
perhaps we shall goto China or Russia this year, none of this fingerprint and eye photo crap at the US border and as a bonus we get treated like guests not criminals
so say goodbye to the US tourism industry RIP 2008
The US administration is pressing the 27 governments of the European Union to sign up for a range of new security measures for transatlantic travel, including allowing armed guards on all flights from Eu
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
What's next? Razor wire fences around the entire continent with border checkpoints? Papers, please. When did the EU become Nazi Germany again?
I can tell you right now that if this passes, this summer's trip to Italy will be my last European trip. I've f*cking had it with governments treating everyone like a criminal, and I won't spend my hard-earned money to support any EU nation that signs on for this bullshit. I encourage everyone of a like mind to do the same.
Remember, you have a choice in vacat
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Worse, the guy taking the photos was aggressive and treated me with suspicion - and to think I was going there to teach students at one of your most well reputed technical universities, complete with invitation in hand.
Oh
Re: (Score:3)
1. Collect data
2. Make a law that allows using this data for solving most brutal crimes
3. Make a law that allows using this data for solving any crime
4. Make new laws to "protect" the citisen.
5. Film next season of Big Brother on the streets.
6. Profit
Re: (Score:2)
Kudos to the US and the EU for making us one of the best places to hold a convention in the modern world!
BIO data? I think I know what I'll give them. (Score:5, Funny)
the doctor says, "I'll need a stool stample, a blood sample, a urine sample and a semen sample."
the guy says to the doc, "here's my underwear; YOU sort it out!"
something tells me, though, that customs folks don't quite have any sense of humor... but that's the kind of 'bio data' I'd like to give them.
Great idea... (Score:2, Insightful)
Oh no! (Score:2)
A golden era of travel is coming to an end :-( (Score:5, Interesting)
I've just arrived in Japan, which has - following pressure from the US - introduced fingerprinting at the border for all foreigners (including those with residence rights, not just visitors). While the process was relatively smooth (put your index fingers on a little machine), it's been my first contact with the world of paranoid "anti-terrorist" biometrics and for me marks the end of an era where international travel has been an expression of freedom.
Re: (Score:2)
The number of people protesting this is kinda sad, given that it's clear that those people must be Americans who don't realize that the US DoI has been doing exactly this for a number of years now.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
More of the same gruel (Score:2, Insightful)
The 'Empire' is slowly moving from Utopian Europe to a darker phase.
And yes, I know, I know, if you have done nothing wrong you have nothing to fear. Only these people love to create new things wrong you may have done. In the UK now, if you smoke, drink,
Is this really practical? (Score:2, Interesting)
Biometrics sounds like a good idea, but I can never justify the single point of failure involved with it. It seems like it would be very easy to get false negetives.
I use usb keys to authenticate on my desktops, and if a key were ever to fail, i have a backup in the safe. The key responds to the encryption keys stored on the flash disk, and uses the serial number of the device as an added protection against copying. This is a simple setup of pam_us
Lessons of history (Score:4, Informative)
The Hollerinth Tabulator machines streamlined the amounts of data that could be processed, thus they could ask more questions.
Some with insight, forsaw this increase is information gathering, and altered their answers to reflect a non-jewish ancestry.
However, they only needed 1 parent or grandparent to give the "correct" answer to link them to a Jewish ancestry(1/16th I believe).
Similarly today, there is little we can do. We are, as we would say in New Zealand, buggered.
European Eunion? (Score:4, Interesting)
for those who automatically say migrants are bad (Score:5, Interesting)
Some people say immigration is bad because it takes jobs away from the the natives. Migration control programmes such as those discussed are very often fuelled by such fears.
In a healthy free market economy, jobs are held by those who can contribute more to the economy for the least cost. It has been my observation that some people, once achieving some comfortable and secure lifestyle, stop innovating and become lazy sluggards, who, even if they spend 8-10 or more hours "at work", they produce little or no real tangible economic value. PHBs are a good example: While the economic contribution of a good manager is to provide sound planning and organisational design, PHBs merely walk around the office carrying a cup of tea, literally doing nothing. In theory, their contribution could become visible someday in a department or company crisis when a decision would be crucial, but my experience tells me that most PHBs would be unable to respond to any crisis in any intelligent way, and most of them stay employed thanks to connections and nepotism. The end result for the economy is great waste, inefficiency, lack of skills, and the development of a passive approach to life which hinders entrepreneurship, initiative, and innovation.
In such an economy, where a great number of people have learnt to live their life without earning it with their ability, thanks to nepotism, status, various social structures, etc, the appearance of a few migrants can have positive effects from an economic point of view: Migrants come, some of them having useful skills, and they renovate the economy. When employers notice that the migrants have real skills and are willing to work for lower wages, they will eventually fire the lazy sluggards and force them to take a more active approach to life and learn new skills, ie to become again actively useful in the economy. In this way, migrants help counterbalance the tendency of many humans to stop innovating once they achieve some security.
Knowing this, a certain number of migrants is not only tolerable but in fact should be highly wanted and desirable, as they have a legitimate and useful economic role to play in our economies (to wake up our lazy fellows). And it is not only highly educated migrants that should be in demand: Migrants with low education should be welcome as well, as they often help to fill gaps in an economy whose members increasingly move towards the service sector and higher-paying jobs.
There are, of course, some dangers from the influx of huge numbers of migrants. One danger is sociological and has its basis in animal behaviour: You can see that, for example, ants are aggressive towards ants from different colonies. Similarly, humans in general do have some passive aggressiveness hidden somewhere in their mind towards persons from different nations. There is, of course, some biological basis for this, as it helps teams of humans (tribes) secure resources and maintain family lineages. But in the modern era, with our developed economies and globalised communications, we need not worry so much about these concerns that belong to the prehistory eras. What we should do is to take care to not allow this passive subconscious aggressiveness become an activated state of mind and infect the conscious mind. This can happen to most people, without them realising it, when great numbers of migrants come into a country and interact with the locals. Seeing one migrant does not raise xenophobic tendencies, but suddenly seeing a thousand migrants out of your door may cause your subconscious tribal feelings to be activated and projected to the consciousness in a variety of ways (xenophobia, racism, economic protectionism, security paranoia, etc). When this happens to the majority of a native population, the results can be disastrous. We have seen it in history and such mistakes should not be repeated by civilised people.
So, how can we ensure that immigration results in positive economic contributions without triggering sociological problems?
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
This is just tit-for-tat: the US requires the same things of Europeans entering the US, and the EU is returning the favor.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
We (from the EU) should have risen above this stupidity - but obviously we haven't.
An eye for an eye, in this case leaves everyone carrying ridiculous amounts of documentation (or maybe just staying at home).
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Goooo canada tourism =D
Re: (Score:2)
Someone will find a way to claim it.
FTFA:
"The United States routinely requires European citizens to submit fingerprints when crossing its borders and the commission's document notes that America plans to introduce an electronic travel-authorization system for people from countries like Britain, France and Germany that are in its Visa Waiver Program."
This is what they're talking about:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/feb/11/usa.theairlineindustry [guardian.co.uk]
Some quotes:
"And within months the US department of homeland security is to impose a new permi
Re:Great! (Score:4, Insightful)
Chad. They have no biometrics at the border - you can just stroll right in, with nary a fingerprint reader or retina scanner in sight.
Do bring a machete, though.
Parent