Anti-Piracy Group Violates Swiss Law to Track File Sharing

An anonymous reader writes "Another fight appears to be brewing in Switzerland over how file sharers are identified. Logistep, a company that specializes in anti-piracy by collecting computer evidence against file sharers for use in lawsuits, seems to have taken an end run around Swiss law in order to try and settle cases out of court. 'Under Swiss law, the identity of a subscriber to an ISP (Internet service provider) can only be revealed during the course of a criminal case, not a civil one, Schaefer said. The IP (Internet Protocol) address of a computer controlled by the subscriber is considered "personal" information. In order to try to claim damages from people suspected of trading songs or movies, Logistep has asked Swiss prosecutors to open criminal cases, Schaefer said. As the criminal cases progresses, Logistep receives information from prosecutors that identifies the file sharer.'"

The REAL Villains Here

[Nom du Keyboard (633989)]

The real villains here are the Swiss prosecutors who are going along with this scheme. They should be ashamed -- and Fired! (Donald Trump, where are you?)

Re:

[TubeSteak (669689)]

The real villains here are the Swiss prosecutors who are going along with this scheme.

The good news is that Swiss citizens, with their direct democracy, can easily hold their public officials accountable. Though at the Federal level, a citizen initiated law needs the support of the states.

Re:

[mpe (36238)]

The real villains here are the Swiss prosecutors who are going along with this scheme. They should be ashamed -- and Fired!

Or even face a firing squad composed of the Swiss citizens who's details they allowed to be leaked. Given that summary execution is the traditional punishment for High Treason.

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[CSMatt (1175471)]

Is what they are doing against criminal law? If not then there is nothing for prosecutors to charge them for.

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[ScrewMaster (602015)]

Some people just want other people to pay for that which they personally disagree, even if it is perfectly legal.

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[Nom du Keyboard (633989)]

I would imagine that bringing someone up on charges that didn't exist in criminal law would be enough to warrant a dismissal.

The problem is that the dismissal apparently happens after the disclosure of the personal identifying information. Once the cat's out of the bag, it doesn't go be in willingly.

Re:

[eiapoce (1049910)]

Unfortunately it is the "allowing content to be created" part the has been trolled around since the '70 by the RIAA and recently by the MPAA... Everybody knows that if that was true then there would'nt be any music by now.

The last year we, the costumers, have been exposed to frequent scripwriters strikes. They clearly stated that MPAA associated corporations keep most profits for themself and then starve honest content creators. This is enought to debunk the myth.

Now it is also more than clear that part

Who watches the watchers?

[KublaiKhan (522918)]

So who is it that should prosecute the prosecutors?

Re:Who watches the watchers?

[realthing02 (1084767)]

Is that similar to meta-moderating?

-1, jailbait.

Re:

[KublaiKhan (522918)]

More or less...all the meta-levels get a little odd after a while.

Quite seriously, though, what sort of judicial review exists in Switzerland? Is there anything in place to hold these people accountable?

I dunno...

[by Anonymous Coward]

The Coast Guard?

Re:

[gr3kgr33n (824960)]

No, the real question is, which defense attorney haven't these prosecutors annoyed that would be willing to defend them?

Re:

[meringuoid (568297)]

So who is it that should prosecute the prosecutors?

Rorschach.

Swiss law is broken

[by Anonymous Coward]

if someone can attack you on the internet, and there is no way to identify who the attacker is to file a lawsuit against the person. This goes for other things besides file sharing, such as libel.

Re:

[timmarhy (659436)]

But if all these attacks are from anonymous cowards like you, then they carry no weight and therefore a libel suit has no merit since no damage can be done.

note that if the accusations are actually true and have evidence to back them up then it doesn't matter if they are anonymous or not, and a libel suit won't be successful.

in other words, ananimity protects us from both attack

Re:

[Stanistani (808333)]

>in other words, ananimity protects us from both attack

I have another word...

Inanity protects all three of us. ;)

Weird...

[mangu (126918)]

if someone can attack you on the internet, and there is no way to identify who the attacker is

Wait, wait... Someone posts an anonymous post, complaining that someone else posted an anonymous post... and it gets modded "INSIGHTFUL"!??!?!... (head explodes)

Re:

[cdrguru (88047)]

There are no consequences to actions on the Internet, and this just affirms it.

Swiss independence

[redelm (54142)]

Oh my. Somebody is going to get into _big_ trouble. The Swiss are _very_ independant minded, perhaps even moreso than Americans. They also take their laws very seriously and playing games is quite simply not allowed.

I expect the civil suits to be dismissed with prejudice (or whatever the civil code equivalent is) and countersuits for fraudulent prosecution to proceed.

If the copyright holders don't like the law, they can lobby to get it changed. Otherwise, the Swiss guard their privacy very jealously. They've stood up to various flavors of nasty Germans and French. I very much doubt they'll cave to the RIAA equivalent. Please also remember that K-Tel is a swiss corp deliberately to take advantage of copyright laws.

Re:

[Tribaal_ch (1192815)]

They don't get to lobby to get a law changed. In Switzerland, national laws are voted by referendum.

Re:

[redelm (54142)]

Thank you for the elaboration. But I believe that referenda were only for major laws, and not for minor changes. Allowing civil discover would probably be legally considered a minor change. Or maybe not if there is a specific Swiss Privacy Law (and not merely custom and provisions in other laws).

Or...

[DrYak (748999)]

A 'major change' is defined as one that you can get 50.000 people to sign against, in 100 days.

Or a change of the constitution, those need automatically to be voted on without any signing prerequisite.

The only problem is that 100 is a rather short delay if you have to collect the signatures during a period like decembre when not everyone is available - this happened with the Swiss equivalent of DCMA that got mentioned some time ago on /,
At least, our DCMA equivalent explicitly allows DRM and other such prot

Re:

[TheVelvetFlamebait (986083)]

I think you're forgetting the old definition of lobbying. From Wikipedia: [wikipedia.org]

Lobbying is a concerted effort designed to affect influence, typically over government authorities and elected officials.

In this case, they'd actually have to roll up their sleeves and lobby the people, not just their representatives.

Re:

[by Anonymous Coward]

"The Swiss are _very_ independant minded, perhaps even moreso than Americans"

HAHAHA +1 Funny! Americans + independent minded?
Most Americans are so "non-independent minded" that they think they are!

Re:

[mpe (36238)]

I expect the civil suits to be dismissed with prejudice (or whatever the civil code equivalent is) and countersuits for fraudulent prosecution to proceed.

They should probably also send the Swiss equivalent of the BSA into Logistep too. After all it wouldn't be the first time that an "anti-piracy" entity was enguaging in quite a bit of "piracy" themselves.

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[drsmithy (35869)]

The Swiss are _very_ independant minded, perhaps even moreso than Americans.

No, they're very community minded. There's a difference. The average American would just about feel oppressed living in Switzerland (especially if he hadn't been living here for long enough to be granted the "right" kind of residence permit).

Re:

[redelm (54142)]

Well, yes, I've used a bit of shorthand. As have you. Prosecutors to not get cases from the public, they get them from police. Police get complaints from the public. The real problem here is the leak of police information, and I very much doubt it will be tolerated. It would undermine the respect for police, something the Swiss do have.

Re:

[mpe (36238)]

The Swiss signed the Berne Convention.

It would be kind of ironic if they didn't.

Re:Swiss independence

[redelm (54142)]

Sure, Berne/Bern is in Switzerland. The Federal capital, and capital of the canton. That doesn't mean they signed the convention (although I think they did). The Swiss are famous for hosting things that they don't sign on for. In spite of hosting many UN agencies in Geneva since the beginning, the Swiss only joined the UN in 2002.

Re:

[Bastard of Subhumani (827601)]

I know the Swiss are closely related to the Germans, but maybe he was ... joking?

In all fairness,

[gnarlyhotep (872433)]

The "anti-piracy" group didn't violate the privacy laws, they conspired with the prosecutors, who are the ones who may have violated the privacy laws (if a criminal case was not warranted).

Either way, it's still a gross violation of the spirit of the law, and certainly reprehensible.

Re:In all fairness,

[TubeSteak (669689)]

The "anti-piracy" group didn't violate the privacy laws,

Alright

they conspired with the prosecutors

I guess where you're from, a conspiracy is not a civil & criminal offense?

If the prosecutors are going to get slapped, so is Logistep and vice versa.

Re:In all fairness,

[gnarlyhotep (872433)]

"I guess where you're from, a conspiracy is not a civil & criminal offense?" Conspiracy is, in almost every jurisdiction, a seperate prosecutable offense related to a violation of the law. It's understood to be illegal to conspire to violate the law, due to the fact that one or more of the conspirators do not actually violate the law.

In this case, they weren't the ones obtaining the IP addresses under (presumably) false pretenses, nor providing them illegally. They convinced the prosecutors, who have an obligation to the public, to do such a thing. Ire placed solely upon the "anti-piracy" group is misplaced; the bulk of it should go to the prosecutors who were the ones *directly* violating the law and abusing the public trust.

Did the conspiracy violate a law? yes. Did the conspiracy violate the *privacy* law specifically? no. Semantic difference, but the law is all about trifling details and semantics.

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[gnarlyhotep (872433)]

Correction: the conspiracy most likely violated the law. I don't know the specifics of Swiss law, nor am I a lawyer, nor do I play one on tv.

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[techno-vampire (666512)]

I guess where you're from, a conspiracy is not a civil & criminal offense?

It's possible. I remember reading, once, that there were problems at Nuremberg because conspiracy wasn't a crime in France or the Soviet Union at the time, and it took a little time for the judges from those nations to understand the charge and its importance. For all I know, it might not be a crime in Switzerland right now.

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[bdraschk (664148)]

Even if a criminal case was warranted, what right do they have to receive information that was gained during investigation of that case?

IANAL, but as far as i understand, when a criminal charge is filed against somebody, the state attorney has to investigate, but the one who charged does not have any special rights to inquire about the findings of that investigation, at least while it's not yet before a court.

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[gnarlyhotep (872433)]

If it were an open criminal proceeding not subject to a quash/sealing order, the information might be avialable to anyone who reviewed the case files. Get the IP, have it presented as evidence, include it in a motion to the court and it's there for anyone who looks to see.

At least, that's my guess on why they convinced the prosecutors to go forward with a criminal trial.

Eye Pee

[ProfessionalCookie (673314)]

Wait, could you clarify, once more, what this "IP" means???? Sincerely, Confused

What's the bounty for turning in the IP trackers?

[WillAffleckUW (858324)]

I foresee a long wonderful friendship between me and law enforcement as I track down RIAA agents using extreme measures for the bounties ...

Lock and load, filesharers! It's clobbering time!

A disturbing trend?

[Alexx K (1167919)]

This, along with The Pirate Bay receiving a 4000-page complaint [slashdot.org] seems to indicate a disturbing trend towards the *AA-style of dealing with file sharing.

EU law too.

[oliverthered (187439)]

IP addresses have just been made private data under EU law too, don't know how that affects civil law cases though [thenextweb.org]

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[DJ Decay (238591)]

Switzerland is not in the EU, so it probably doesn't have much of an effect.

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[johannesg (664142)]

It doesn't matter, the EU has it surrounded anyway...

Kickbacks

[Dachannien (617929)]

You gotta wonder whether and how much money changed hands to make these criminal cases happen.

Re:

[gnasher719 (869701)]

You gotta wonder whether and how much money changed hands to make these criminal cases happen.

None. All they have to do is go to the police, claim that their copyrights have been infringed to some degree that would make it criminal, and then the police would be supposed to investigate. They tried exactly the same thing in Germany. The only difference apparently was that the German police and judges quickly figured out that the record companies didn't have any intention whatsoever to actually follow through with the roughly 10,000 criminal cases that they wanted the police to investigate, so in Germ

Re:

[mpe (36238)]

All they have to do is go to the police, claim that their copyrights have been infringed to some degree that would make it criminal, and then the police would be supposed to investigate.

The police's investigation may well include investigating the complainant. Rather than just passing on the complaint to prosecutors.

They tried exactly the same thing in Germany. The only difference apparently was that the German police and judges quickly figured out that the record companies didn't have any intention wha

obligatory

[circletimessquare (444983)]

in soviet switzerland, YOU sue RIAA!

Re:

[by Anonymous Coward]

Ok, maybe I am feeding a troll here so I am tickboxing AC.
As an Helvetii and a native of Switzerland I must question: why have you posted this?
Is it your true feeling? I wasn't knowing of hatred against us existing anywhere really.
We're actually a pretty great place, please investigate [admin.ch] and if you are for true perhaps your opinions shall change.
You can come visit, too.

Holy misplaced decimal point batman

[mjwx (966435)]

as long as you gather 50.000(?) signature

Fifty point zero, zero, zero.
I think 50 signatures is a little low, don't you. I think you meant 50,000 signatures (also you didn't pluralize signature, but this transgression pales in comparison for the incorrect usage of a decimal point in lieu of a comma).

mjwx,
Senior Grammar Fascist.
Department of anal retentivity.

Re:

[mjwx (966435)]

The decimal place/comma thing does tend to get to me because I have a scientific/mathematics background (my spelling is nothing to be proud of, I'll admit). Also being an Aussie I am not familiar with the nuances of European dialects (so to me "here in" doesn't tend to flag anything as I often see the English phase "here in lies" used).

For the record, I regularly deal with Asian clients who's English grammar and spelling skills are normally pretty bad so please permit me the odd eccentricity (because I c