Slashdot Log In
Obama's Mobile Phone Records Compromised, Shared
Posted by
kdawson
on Fri Nov 21, 2008 08:59 AM
from the quis-custodiet-ipsos-custodes dept.
from the quis-custodiet-ipsos-custodes dept.
Tiger4 writes "Verizon has confirmed that some of its employees have accessed and perhaps shared calling records of President Elect Barack Obama (coverage at CNN, Reuters, AP). Verizon says the people involved have all been put on leave with pay as the investigation proceeds. Some of the employees may have accessed the information for legitimate purposes, but others may have been curiosity seekers and may have even shared the information around. The account was 'only' a phone, not a BlackBerry or similar device, and Verizon believes it was just calling records, not voicemail or email that was compromised. The articles do not mention the similarity to the warrantless wiretapping or hospital records compromises of recent months. But that immediately sprang to mind for me."
Related Stories
This discussion has been archived.
No new comments can be posted.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
Full
Abbreviated
Hidden
Loading... please wait.
Thats OK. (Score:5, Insightful)
If he stops the NSA from spying on domestics then I'll take back my comment.
Re:Thats OK. (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:Thats OK. (Score:4, Insightful)
never mind Obama, the people need to see Bush's call records, now that be interesting
Parent
Re:Thats OK. (Score:5, Insightful)
Forget Bush's records how about President Cheney's records..
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Other than Clinton, could you enlighten me on some of the picks that you think are "fantastic"? I've personally been very disappointed in Obama's nominations thus far, for exactly the reason you say you're happy with them, cronyism.
I don't want to drag this out into a long-winded rant or anything, so I'll just post what I believe to be an excellent summation of just the cronyism I'm leery of. The article I'm talking about [commondreams.org] is actually about worries over the possibility of a hawkish Obama foreign policy, but
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
> "I've personally been very disappointed in Obama's nominations thus far,..."
Yet David Brooks, one of the token conservative columnists at NYT, begrudgingly admires [nytimes.com] Obama's nominations:
And yet as much as I want to resent these overeducated Achievatrons (not to mention the incursion of a French-style government dominated by highly trained Enarchs), I find myself tremendously impressed by the Obama transition.
Re:Thats OK. (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Thats OK. (Score:5, Insightful)
Or to put it another way...
If you weren't buying illegal drugs, you would trust me with complete access to all your credit card information, right?
Parent
Transparency (Score:5, Interesting)
Parent
Re:Transparency (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Transparency (Score:5, Funny)
Of course not. That's why we should get a law passed to make it mandatory. It'll be tough to pass, but I know a couple palms we could grease (off the record, of course)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
What legitimate purpose? (Score:5, Interesting)
Like what?
I doubt if Obama has any problem paying his phone bill.
Re:What legitimate purpose? (Score:5, Funny)
Reverse traces.
They were probably investigating a complaint from the Governor's residence in Alaska. All those mysterious calls that would just be insane, taunting laughter, then a hang-up.
Probably just a wrong number, but still, you can never be too sure.
Parent
Re:What legitimate purpose? (Score:5, Insightful)
> Like what?
Well, that's presumably why they're investigating.
There can be various technical reasons why a support tech or engineer or sysadmin or whoever looks at data that most people would think of as personal, but the engineer isn't seeing what other people are seeing. He's seeing technical stuff other people would never notice. I don't know a lot about phones, because I don't really support those, so I'll use email as an example instead. As a tech guy, I have on a number of occasions had reasons to look at a coworker's email (albeit, usually with their knowledge in my case), but if you'd asked me thirty seconds later who they'd received messages from or what they were about, I'd have had no idea. Maybe I was looking at whether messages were being retrieved from the server all the time in the background, or only when the inbox was open. Maybe I was looking at whether their outgoing messages were getting correct date headers and Message-IDs. Maybe I was sending a test message to myself to see how fast it went through, and the reply back. I'm sure there were other things, and I'm sure I don't remember every occasion, because it's not weird or unusual; it's a normal part of my job duties.
If I *wanted* to surreptitiously read the actual content of my coworkers' email, I would certainly be technically capable of doing that, and could be fairly confident of not being detected. But in the first place that wouldn't be ethical, and in the second place very little is of less interest to me than the content of my coworkers' email messages.
I am not saying the people who looked at Obama's calling records were doing so for legitimate reasons. I'm only saying that it's *plausible*, and the phone company is right to investigate _before_ taking any irrevocable action.
Incidentally, some people may be thinking that paid leave is letting them off easy, but having been through a situation where my employer had someone on paid leave for a while, I can say that in some instances the reason for doing this is because it allows the employer to place some kinds of restrictions on the employee that they wouldn't be able to place on them if they weren't being paid. I don't know for certain that this is the phone company's reason in this case, but it potentially could be. (It could also be they just don't want to penalize them until they investigate and determine for sure whether they did anything wrong. That could also be valid, from a cover-your-legal-self-in-case-of-lawsuits perspective if nothing else.)
Parent
This happens often (Score:5, Interesting)
My brother worked at T-Mobile for many years. (since before they were T-Mobile). Most Hollywood stars have their agents get their phones for them. One day, something happened in the payment process, and Val Kilmer came into a store to make a payment on his phone, instead of his agent. Suddenly, his number was getting passed all over the company, and many employees (mostly young girls) actually called the number to talk to him. A ton of people were fired, and Val got a very nice check from T-Mobile.
Kilmer who? (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Interesting observation, IMHO (Score:5, Interesting)
Most of the media (for example, NPR on the radio today) talks about "unauthorized access by employees", while /. entry is about "sharing" (which is more sinister).
PS. That and unrelated modest and subdued coverage by CNN about yesterday's record Dow-Jones drop remind me of bias in the media.
freedom of information act (Score:5, Interesting)
While this is improper and wrong, I think that if the government is allowed to wiretap us, then the same laws should make it legal (Freedom of Information Act or something like that) for us to wiretap them. In fact, all government employees' and officials' calls should be recorded and made available for everyone's listening pleasure at a youtube-like site. Call it govtube. Because we are not subservient to the government; it is subservient to us. We put those people in office for our benefit, and so it is our collective right to know what they're doing over there.
Why there are draconian rules at work. (Score:5, Interesting)
Constantly have these issues in health care (Score:5, Insightful)
Every time a celebrity lands themselves in an ER (especially hospitals not accustomed VIPs) then we can expect several violations of HIPAA by unauthorized hospital staff.
They just cannot resist no matter how many times they are warned about activity being logged and threats of dismissal upon violation.
What's good for the Govt. is good for the people (Score:3, Insightful)
Since Obama voted for FISA it's only fair that the people have access to those records too. :)
Joe? (Score:5, Insightful)
Lets see if they get the same slap on the wrist that government employees got for accessing Joe the Plumber's tax records, DMV records, medical records, and other supposedly private information.
Memorable Fight club quote comes to mind (Score:3, Insightful)
"...Look, the people you are after are the people you depend on. We cook your meals, we haul your trash, we connect your calls, we drive your ambulances. We guard you while you sleep. Do not... fuck with us."
Funny, but what sprang to mind for me was... (Score:3, Insightful)
1. Clinton administration snagging secret FBI background checks on all the nation's leading Republicans.
2. Democrats illegally recording Newt Gingrich cell phone call and leaking it to the press.
3. Democrat breaking into Gov Palin's e-mail account and plastering the contents all over the web.
4. Hoards of Democrats in a bunch of state offices digging into every possible government record looking for dirt on Joe-the-plumber (the average citizen who dared question the messiah)
5. Both McCain and Obama having their passport records breached
6. The pregnancy of Palin's under-age daughter and details about her boyfriend being splashed all-over the papers.
7. Palin's minor daughter's cell phone info being leaked onto the web
Actually, I though of all the recent breaches by people in both parties, but there seems to be a fixation on Cheney/Bush, and a baseless presumption that Democrats value privacy, on the net that is a bit tiresome and some balance is required. The problem is NOT that the wrong people are in charge or the wrong people are the victims; the problem is that humans are corruptible and too much power in the hands of too few, with too little oversight, will always lead to trouble. No matter which side of the aisle you are on, eventually your people will be the victims and the other people will be the perps. Best that people on both sides hammer-out better rules to protect the privacy of everybody... while still protecting everybody from real harm. Anybody who only notices and gets upset when somebody in his political party is violated is somebody who does not truly care about privacy
Re:Justifications (Score:4, Interesting)
I'd hope so. The Video Privacy Protection Act [wikipedia.org] was passed after the rental records of a Supreme Court nominee became public. Seems like the only way we can get any privacy legislation passed is to demonstrate to the ruling class just how important it is by violating their privacy.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
No more coffee for you.
Re:What A Joke (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
There's an ongoing investigation (Score:3, Insightful)
If there is sufficient evidence to connect the suspected employee, they will most likely be fired or worse. Denying the suspected parties their pay is inappropriate until more sufficient evidence is found. Having them show up at work would be inappropriate as well.
No, it's not an ideal situation. But what would you propose?
Sure it's like a vacation. A vacation where you might be fired or charged with a crime. Yeah, I'm jealous.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
No, it's not an ideal situation. But what would you propose?
At least transfer them to some non-critical area where they can do some productive work. I think they ought to make them wander around in the boondocks checking how many bars they have and testing if people can still hear them on test calls. For some reason, it seems Verizon needs to deploy teams comprised of hundreds of people to handle this task, so I'm sure that they always need more help in that department.
Re:What A Joke (Score:4, Informative)
Thank you.
For all the crud that comes around here about how Verizon Wireless is an evil company, I can tell you, they are a very fair and honest company. They truly believe in doing what's right - both by customers, and by employees.
Obviously, things like call records and such need to be kept for some amount of time, both for troubleshooting as well as legal issues (court orders, etc.) That's a pretty serious responsibility. That's why you have audits logs every time that data gets accessed.
The system works, apparently. The folks who got suspended with pay all had their hands in the cookie jar. From what it sounds like, they're going to be sorting out who was there for legit purposes (i.e. a technical issue, billing question, etc.) and who was doing something they shouldn't have been.
I think suspending with pay is quite fair. If you were in those records, doing legitimate work, that will come to light, and you'll have suffered no loss. If you did something you shouldn't have done, well, that'll come out too and when that's determined, due process will catch up to you.
Good call on their part, and frankly, I can't think of any better way to handle it. It's good to see that the right processes are in place such that employees can do their job when they need to, but it gets flagged when someone is doing something shady.
Parent
Re:Data Theft (Score:5, Insightful)
Really ? The people who illegaly obtained access to "Joe the plumber"'s records, and went on to check all sorts of things on him
["all sorts of things" means, specifically, his driver's record, and whether or not he owed child support]
are still perfectly gainfully employed by the government
And so are these people. Didn't you even read the summary??? Verizon says the people involved have all been put on leave with pay.
"leave with pay" == "still employed." Sounds like a bonus, not a punishment!
I guess it all depends what side you're on.
Apparently not.
Parent
Re:Data Theft (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Data Theft (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
There was no solid evidence prior to a vigilante breaking into Palin's inbox that any law was broken. There may have been an investigation in progress, I can't remember right now, but that is NOT the same thing as substantial evidence or a conviction.
With that single insight your entire argument about the relative moral and legal difference is destroyed.
Since you saw fit to throw in a politically based insult I will now do the same. Please sir, get your head out of Barak's colon and get some fresh air. Your
Re:Data Theft (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Nice red herring (Score:4, Insightful)
The President-Elect has a modern day Praetorian Guard protecting him. It would take either a professional team of assassins, or a very, very lucky suicide bomber/shooter to get anywhere near him. Joe the Plumber? Not so much.
Joe what's his name can't help the fact that McCain made him into a working class hero. He also can't help the fact that a number of people on the left wanted to destroy him for having the audacity to ask a hard, serious economic question of Obama that made Obama look bad. One radio host even called for him to be murdered.
So yeah, I'd say that he had more practical security precautions than a man who had the Secret Service protecting him and his immediate family.
Parent
Re:Nice red herring (Score:4, Insightful)
Presidents, President Elects and other high profile people are going to draw a far greater number of wackos than a private citizen vainly clinging to their fifteen minutes of fame. Obama's personal phone number and past calling patterns might well put him at risk and could very well put family, friends and associates at risk -- you might not be able to get at Obama directly, but how about a family member without a protective detail?
And I really doubt that McCain didn't even get Samuel Joe Wurzelburger a courtesy call before turning him into a party platitude. Regardless, he certainly didn't shy away from the spotlight: junior stump man, book deal and record deal. He's certainly embraced the role of public persona but, just like every other person, does not deserve to have his privacy violated. But doesn't change the fact that Wurzelburger's notoriety is several degrees from Obama and is much less of a "target" for the crazies.
For the parent poster to claim the reaction to this story is because people don't want to criticize Obama is beyond the pale. For me this story would carry just as much weight if McCain's phone rec were ords compromised or Bush's post-presidency records were compromised (presumably Bush and now Obama lose their personal line privileges due to public record laws.)
Parent
Re:Nice red herring (Score:4, Insightful)
That's funny since 90% of the people I see referring to Obama as "messiah" are right-wing.
Parent
Re:Nice red herring (Score:4, Informative)
"I'm getting ready to buy a company that makes 250 to 280 thousand dollars a year. Your new tax plan's going to tax me more, isn't it?"
Obama's response:
"It's not that I want to punish your success. I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you, that they've got a chance at success, too"
The "Obama is a socialist" bandwagon was hitched up to Joe Wurzelbacher based on this exchange. It wasn't really so much of a "hard, serious question" than a rhetorical device. If Wurzelbacher had wanted to be more serious about the question, he should have left it more open-ended. I hope that he does better with "Secure Our Dream."
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_the_plumber [wikipedia.org]
Parent
Re:Nice red herring (Score:5, Insightful)
It wasn't a hard question. It was just a question which Obama had a hard time answering due to he nature of his (polarizing) answer. A simple question which a simple person wanted clarification on. I highly doubt he intended for it to throw him into the national spotlight; he likely just wanted to know if he'd be financially hosed by the purchase, and whether he should go forward.
The thing that makes it such a "hard" question is because Obama's answer was halting and not planned for - it was ad lib. He didn't have a script to read by, and the true nature of his policy had a little light shone on it.
This is hardly the first or only example of how or why Obama is a socialist. There is hardly any evidence available to support that he isn't; he's been involved in far-left socialist - dare I say marxist? - agendas since he was a teenager, and his rhetoric reflects that.
Parent
Re:Nice red herring (Score:5, Insightful)
Neither Joe the Plumber nor Barack Obama's records should have been compromised. To defend one instance while castigating the other is hypocritical.
But it is the nature of human grouping. People form groups and then expect their group to defend them when they have done wrong. If the group didn't, the group would not stay a group for long.
Personally I'm glad Obama's records were compromised because it might teach him the importance of taking privacy seriously. Hopefully then he will stop the warrantless wiretapping.
Parent
Re:Nice red herring (Score:4, Insightful)
Our politicians should not be keeping secrets from us. They are applying to be representatives of the people, and in most cases they already are.
They should be willing to protect our privacies without expecting any of their own. And every time they expect me to sacrifice my anonymity just so that I can speak up against injustice, it makes me very angry. Our founding fathers fought anonymously in every way they could and went the extra mile against British Tyranny because they had to.
And I keep seeing filthy redcoats wherever I look because people are so terrified of what's behind everyone else's curtains.
Parent
Re:Nice red herring (Score:5, Insightful)
Have you seen the entire footage of the exchange between Joe and Barack? Obama took a great deal of time to explain specifically how his plan would affect Joe's desire to buy this company. Frankly Joe looked a little stunned.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
You say that as if there aren't people who might hire a professional team of assassins to kill the President. Anyone who has the money and the motivation to kill Obama could easily pay off a low-level Verizon staffer, or coerce them into doing so through other means (e.g., by threatening their family). IMO, the main question Verizon should be asking itself isn't whether these employees should be fired (though they probably s
Re:Data Theft (Score:4, Interesting)
Do you think that the President Elect of the United States might have greater personal security concerns than McCain's version of a working class hero? This isn't a matter of "being critical of the president".
You know my first reaction to this? It's a good thing that this happened. Why? Because it would take a data breach of a major government official before anything really serious is done about the problem. There is a part of me that really hopes that the president and congress get all sorts of personnel data stolen/breached just so they'll start to take the subject seriously.
Now as far as the office of the President and the white house goes... I'd hope that however the white house has their cell phone plan that say that they have some contract and have 50-1000 (how ever many) phones and some peon is in charge of paying bills, setting up/backing up address books other info of officals and that the phone company shouldn't ever know which phones are assigned to which personnel. I'd actually want all their phone conversions encrypted and what not. (Actually, I'd want every cell phone call encrypted as well.)
Now, if this happened to be his personnel cell phone before he became famous president/government official, I can understand how this happened. I'd hope the President of the US or heck of any country or major business has more important things to do than fiddle with their personnel cell phones/tech support/data breaches.
I'll now have that mental image of the President spending an hour on hold trying to get through the cell phone tech support mini hell before he can complain to the cell phone management rather than spending time doing whatever it is presidents do most of the time.
Parent
Re:Data Theft (Score:5, Funny)
If he's doing nothing wrong he's got nothing to worry about.
Right?
Parent
Joe was not an operative (Score:4, Insightful)
Joe was just a guy in Ohio. Obama came to his house to campaign. He wasn't an "operative".
Do you guys even care that you're lying? Your guy won. There's no need to continue to smear and lie about Joe the Plumber.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Here is the link:
http://scienceblogs.com/afarensis/2006/10/27/intelligent_design_and_the_ala/ [scienceblogs.com]
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm pretty sure he'll have to get rid of it.
Let's face it -- POTUS has a whole fleet of people who make sure he's got secure and reliable comms, and a group of people to get him to his next appointment on time.
I just can't see it being practicable to have Obama running around with is own damned blackberry/cellphone.
If for no other reason, it just seems stunningly bizarre than anyone who travels in a motorcade and has a 747 at his disposal cramm