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Proposed Legislation Would Outlaw "Cyberbullying" in US

Posted by timothy on Sun Jun 08, 2008 07:29 PM
from the keep-hands-and-arms-inside-the-handbasket dept.
physman_wiu writes "We all remember the recent incident of 13-year-old Megan Meier. Now legislation is set to be passed at least in Missouri (and possibly through Congress) that would make cyberbullying illegal. The new legislation (PDF) reads: 'Whoever transmits in interstate or foreign commerce any communication, with the intent to coerce, intimidate, harass, or cause substantial emotional distress to a person, using electronic means to support severe, repeated, and hostile behavior, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.' Now, this seems like a great piece of legislation — until I get put in jail for some kid on WOW calling the Feds on me." Eugene Volokh is not impressed.
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  • by spazdor (902907) on Sunday June 08 2008, @08:21PM (#23703753)
    Don't worry. In prison we'll have plenty of time to sit around and think of the children.
  • by unity100 (970058) on Sunday June 08 2008, @08:22PM (#23703759) Homepage Journal

    with the intent to coerce, intimidate, harass, or cause substantial emotional distress to a person,
    how are they gonna tell what is which ?
    • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 08 2008, @08:28PM (#23703803)
      What?!?!

      Why the fuck does which is which matter?

      I swear to god you stupid motherfucker, if you your bullshit drivel even one more motherfucking time I am going to climb through this tube and smack the shit out of you. I'll kick your dog while I'm there, and piss on your flowers.

      No one wants to read what you write. It is lame. You are lame by extension. Your whole family is very likely equally lame. Lick my sack.

      In short, fuck you and the packets you rode in one.

      You are a waste of carbon and water.

      Yuo == fuckface
        • Re:come on (Score:5, Funny)

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 08 2008, @08:56PM (#23704051)
          Kill yourself.
            • Re:come on (Score:5, Insightful)

              by tambo (310170) on Sunday June 08 2008, @11:23PM (#23705177)
              I love that all of these posts are supposed to have been done to prove that it has some sort of credence, however they have all been modded funny.

              :shrug: This is Slashdot... we all know that this is this is a horrid and shocking law, but we can't really get our collective panties in a bunch 'cause it's never going to be enforced. Its sole purpose is to send a "see, WE REALLY CARE" message from some lame-ass legislators to the Oprah crowd.

              So we can't really take it seriously. It's not even worthy of honest debate or devil's-advocacy. Hell, debating it just gives the reactionary, melodramatic legislators the attention they're craving.

              So, screw it. We're just gonna ridicule it - that's a better use of our time (and a more appropriate response.)

              - David Stein

    • by Foobar of Borg (690622) on Sunday June 08 2008, @09:23PM (#23704281)

      with the intent to coerce, intimidate, harass, or cause substantial emotional distress to a person,
      how are they gonna tell what is which ?
      No kidding. This much ambiguity will make most everyone on slashdot a criminal. Of course, with the way US laws are now, pretty much everyone is *some* kind of criminal anyway.
      • by hedwards (940851) on Sunday June 08 2008, @10:43PM (#23704925)
        Intention isn't always easy to prove, it would be highly unlikely that any DA would bother trying to prosecute somebody that was just randomly trolling. Murder 1 is a crime of intention, whereas manslaughter is a crime without intention to kill.

        In this case, it's far more likely that this will be used to extend RL rules to the net. Meaning that cyberstalkers, those that mix through multiple types of communication or sites are far more likely to end up being tried than just somebody that's trolling just one site.

        But, really this isn't that much different than laws that ban the sending of threatening letters through the mail or calling people at home repeatedly without permission.

        It's really hard for me to see this as a free speech issue, without having more information. Just because a person can say something doesn't mean that it's constitutionally protected, and I suspect that this legislation will be used in that manner. Abusing the courts can and does get attorneys disbarred, just ask Jack Thompson what the courts feel about it.

        At this point, the legislation hasn't even passed, and could very likely end up being amended, changed or fail to pass at the last minute.
  • Responsibility? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by thedrx (1139811) on Sunday June 08 2008, @08:25PM (#23703773)
    Whatever happened to parents' responsibility for what their kids do (including online activities?)
    • Re:Responsibility? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by nightglider28 (1243916) on Sunday June 08 2008, @08:28PM (#23703799)
      They stopped requiring that when mass media came around.
    • Re:Responsibility? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Quiet_Desperation (858215) on Sunday June 08 2008, @08:33PM (#23703841)
      In the case in question, it was the *PARENT* that was doing it.

      I dunno... seems to me this could all be handled under existing law. I mean, they DID bring charges against the parent.
      • Re:Responsibility? (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) on Sunday June 08 2008, @09:17PM (#23704205)

        In the case in question, it was the *PARENT* that was doing it.
        No it was not. And the way you wrote it totally misrepresents what happened.

        It was *A* parent, but NOT THE PARENT OF THE CHILD WHO COMMITTED SUICIDE.

        Obviously this lady is fucked in the head to torment a kid like that.
        But obviously too the girl who killed herself had more problems than just being manipulated by someone on the net.

        It may have been the straw that broke the camel's back, but anyone who commits suicide because someone played an elaborate and humiliating practical joke on them over the internet is already in severe need of help. Help that apparently her own parents failed to provide.

        Sticks and stones...
        • Re:Responsibility? (Score:5, Informative)

          by snkline (542610) on Sunday June 08 2008, @09:46PM (#23704491)

          Actually it was the employee of a parent of the friend of the child who committed suicide.

          But that is frankly beside the point anyways. After reviewing as much of what happened in this case as is available to the general public, while what this woman did was sick, I no longer think it was the proximate cause of the girl committing suicide. It is very evident when you dig a little deeper into the story, that it was her own mother's reaction when Meghan tried to talk about what had happened that pushed her over the edge. She didn't get a nasty message and decide to hang herself. She got some nasty messages, tried to talk to her mom about it, her mom blew her off because she didn't like the language Meghan had used in her chatting, she cried out to her mom that she was supposed to be on her side, THEN went up to her room and immediately killed herself.

          I still think the woman who perpetrated the hoax was a horrible horrible person. However, I feel Meghan's mother has to be held somewhat accountable. She knew her daughter suffered from depression, she saw her daughter was very upset. But rather than comfort her, she grew angry because Meghan had been talking naughty online. A decision I think she will regret to her dying day.

        • Re:Responsibility? (Score:5, Interesting)

          by aztektum (170569) on Sunday June 08 2008, @11:40PM (#23705277)
          It might be me, but if I knew my kid had problems with depression, as this girls mother has said she did, I wouldn't be letting them spend much time online, particularly unsupervised.

          If I had kids, they'd hate me. Keyloggers FTW, accounts w/ passwords I know. As they got older I'd get less restrictive, but I would understand it is not the worlds job to watch my kids.
    • by EmbeddedJanitor (597831) on Sunday June 08 2008, @08:42PM (#23703937)
      Surely all these abuses/bullying are already illegal whether conducted by any means: letters, smoke signals or cyber.

      Making special cyber law reenforces the notion that the internet is different and has different rules.

          • Re:Bully the bully. (Score:5, Interesting)

            by Opportunist (166417) on Monday June 09 2008, @02:44AM (#23706245)
            Sure. I was beaten up at school on a regular base until I had enough and, finally standing on higher ground than my constant bully, I kicked a few teeth out of his face.

            The result was that I got dragged in front of the principal and got to hear a rather unpleasant lecture how I should not do that. Complaining that I reported repeatedly that he kept punching and kicking me without any result didn't faze him. Instead I was sent home for a few weeks, only to get more heat from my dad (who tried the "grow a pair" approach first).

            This experience taught me a few valuable lessons:

            1. Don't rely on due process, it doesn't work. If you get wronged, you're on your own.
            2. Don't rely on your family, for when you apply their advice, you are wrong.
            3. Find people who have the same problem you do. After that incident, I had quite a few good friends.
  • oh great... (Score:5, Funny)

    by socsoc (1116769) on Sunday June 08 2008, @08:26PM (#23703779)
    As long as we can all still act immature on Xbox Live and make fun of each other's mothers while using homophobic terms...
  • by arotenbe (1203922) on Sunday June 08 2008, @08:26PM (#23703781) Journal
    So if I had decided to post this comment anonymously from an internet cafe or local library, and I did something which met the arbitrary criteria of cyberbullying, who would get thrown in jail for two years?

    Why do I get the feeling this law is impractical.
  • by CastrTroy (595695) on Sunday June 08 2008, @08:26PM (#23703783) Homepage
    My biggest problem with these anti-online X laws are why we need to specify "on the internet". If all you're adding is "on the internet", then the law shouldn't need to be written in the first place. If it's illegal, then it's illegal. If it's not already illegal off the internet, I would wonder why doing it on internet would change the legality.
    • by the_humeister (922869) on Sunday June 08 2008, @08:30PM (#23703821)
      Because general elections are just a few months away.
    • by stubear (130454) on Sunday June 08 2008, @08:52PM (#23704007)
      Because the lack of "...on the internet" is in some cases considered a loophole in existing laws. Laws and common sense live on different planes of reality, don't try to merge the two or you might risk tearing a hole in the space/time fabric, dooming us all to oblivion.
    • by Rary (566291) on Sunday June 08 2008, @09:14PM (#23704177)

      My biggest problem with these anti-online X laws are why we need to specify "on the internet". If all you're adding is "on the internet", then the law shouldn't need to be written in the first place.

      I didn't RTFA (well, I skimmed it), and I don't necessarily disagree with you, but it occurred to me that maybe the purpose of creating a new law that simply adds "on the internet" to an existing law is to allow for harsher sentencing.

      Theoretically, technology allows bullies to escalate their bullying to new levels, harassing their victims unrelentingly, at any hour of the day, and from anywhere. Perhaps updating the law to factor in the heightened level of harassment that is now possible allows judges to increase the sentence accordingly.

      I did notice, however, that the article claims that "(l)awmakers are seeking to address cyberbullying with new legislation because there's currently no specific law on the books that deals with it".

  • by Bios_Hakr (68586) <xptical.gmail@com> on Sunday June 08 2008, @08:27PM (#23703789) Homepage
    You know, if it wasn't for that pesky 1st Amendment, we could fix a lot of the problems that people think they have.

    We could limit advertisers.

    We could limit hate groups.

    We could stop bullies.

    We could stop lobbyists.

    But, alas, we are stuck with the damn thing. Ooh, have an idea. We can pass laws to limit the 1st Amendment protections in clear violation of the Constitution. And no one will have the balls to take it to the Supreme Court. And if they do, the Supreme Court *may* overturn the law but we'll have stopped literally *tens* of cyber-bullies.

    After all, USians have been shitting on the 2nd Amendment for the last hundred years. It's about time the 1st gets some love too.
    • by CastrTroy (595695) on Sunday June 08 2008, @08:31PM (#23703823) Homepage
      Your right to swing your arms ends where my nose begins. In the same way, the freedom of speech does not give you the right to harass people. How would you feel if someone followed you around all the time, telling you how worthless you were, or threatening to kill you and your family (which is against the law). The freedom of speech does not give anybody the right to say whatever they want, whenever they want.
      • by DurendalMac (736637) on Sunday June 08 2008, @08:48PM (#23703987)
        You're right, it doesn't. If this law was very, very specific about what constitutes online "harassment", then you might have a point, but even then it's probably going too far. Oh no, someone is mean to you on a forum! That is a far, FAR cry from someone following you around in the real world and harassing you. Now, if this person on the forum is someone you know in the real world, then things may well be a little hairier, but someone calling you names online from the other side of the country being made illegal? Sorry, but you don't have the right to not be offended or hear mean things. Grow a spine.
      • by stubear (130454) on Sunday June 08 2008, @08:48PM (#23703989)
        Actually it does give me the right to harass someone as long as I tell the truth about said person and I don't incite others to actually cause physical harm to same person. Recent laws against hate speech and bullying are rather troubling violations of the First Amendment not because they violate it but because of the way they are slowly eroding the right to free speech in such as way as to make it seem less of a bitter pill to swallow. A little here, a little there and soon enough you've lost the right to criticize others because it might be considered harassing. Remember, lawyers won't wait until you've clearly crossed the line before they drag you into court, they'll sue you at the drop of a hat and regardless of guilt, you've learned to watch what you say. Bye-bye free press. Bye-bye ability to question your government. Bye-bye your ability to speak your mind.
      • by Zak3056 (69287) on Sunday June 08 2008, @08:57PM (#23704053) Homepage Journal

        The Second Amendment is arcane, and it doesn't give private citizens the right to have guns for whatever purposes they want.

        If you don't like it, work to change it. There's a mechanism in the constitution to do just that. But unless and until you change it, it remains the supreme law of the land. When you attempt to define it out of existence, you just weaken all other constitutional protections. Here's a hint: the constitution says that the federal government has NO POWER other than what is specifically granted to it by the constitution. Nowhere in there will you find the authority to propagate laws restricting the ownership of firearms.

        If by "shitting" on it, you mean, actually keeping it confined to something resembling what it was meant to do, then yes, we have been. There's a reason violent gun deaths here dwarf all of Europe combined, and it's not because gun control laws are too strict.

        I think you misundersand what "it was meant to do." The 2nd amendment was meant to leave ultimate power in the hands of the people--by enabling them to take up arms against a tyrannical government if required. Recall that the men who wrote the constitution has just done this very thing themselves--in fact, Lexington and Concord, the first battles of the Revolutionary War, were fought because the government was attempting to disarm the citizenry.

        As far as "gun deaths" go, the sad truth is that Americans just seem to like killing each other... take away guns, and those intending to murder will use knives. Take away knives and they'll use baseball bats. Take away bats, and they'll use hands and feet. I'm not saying that I LIKE that this is the way things are, but this is the way things are. I'm not a big fan of Michael Moore, but I thought he made some really good points in Bowling for Columbine... it's a pity that instead of following them to their logical conclusion, he just settled on blaming an old man with Alzheimers instead.

      • by Zak3056 (69287) on Sunday June 08 2008, @09:07PM (#23704115) Homepage Journal

        The Second Amendment defends the rights of the states to form militias, it's a collective state right, not an individual one

        Right. Because "The People" in the 2nd amendment are obviously not the same "The People" from the 1st, 4th, 9th, and 10th amendments. Those are clearly some other people. Or maybe the 1st, 4th, 9th, and 10th amendments are also some kind of nebulous collective right that can be defined out of existence on a whim?

        If one were intellectually honest, they might even question themselves on why the 2nd amendment would be about state militias when the congress has the power to federalize them... if it were about balance between the federal government and the states, why would the federal government have the power to take those militias away for federal service?

        By the way, neither states nor the federal government have rights--they have powers.

  • by Hamster Of Death (413544) on Sunday June 08 2008, @08:28PM (#23703805)
    You cannot legislate common courtesy and respect.

    Nor should you have to.
  • Coming soon .... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by CyberLife (63954) on Sunday June 08 2008, @08:29PM (#23703815)
    ... legislation requiring mommy to wipe your ass until age 18, at which time it becomes the responsibility of your employer (or the EDD if you are jobless).
  • by Skreech (131543) on Sunday June 08 2008, @08:30PM (#23703819)
    Remember when you were little and some kid said they were gonna tell on you because you called them a poo-poo head? Yeah, that's what this is going to be like.

    Actually, it was more like some whiny kid who learned how to manipulate their parents to get the retribution they wanted against someone. Did some kid fairly take the last cookie? Go tell on him for stealing your cookie right out of your hands. Heh, as if there's not enough of that going around in Grown-Up Land with the legal system already.

    This concept has to die.
  • Fook! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Quiet_Desperation (858215) on Sunday June 08 2008, @08:31PM (#23703827)
    Fuck this damned bullshit to hell and- er, um, I mean, I think I might think to oppose this, yes I do, if that's OK.
  • by iter8 (742854) on Sunday June 08 2008, @08:36PM (#23703867)
    'Whoever transmits in interstate or foreign commerce any communication, with the intent to coerce, intimidate, harass, or cause substantial emotional distress to a person, using electronic means to support severe, repeated, and hostile behavior, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.'

    Does this mean they'll ban Bill O'Reilly?
  • if it was harassment by an ADULT on a person known to them to be a MINOR

    as was the case with meier

    or

    if it was harassment by an ADULT on a person known to them to be emotionally or mentally compromised

    as was ALSO the case with meier

    with those caveats, all trolling on the internet would not count in the legislation, mostly because it is anonmyous, and between (nominally) mentally fit adults
  • by Rageon (522706) on Sunday June 08 2008, @09:09PM (#23704133)
    This is a re-post from a comment I made the last time "cyber-bullying" came up on Slashdot:

    I'm a law clerk in the state court system, and have been for a little over two years. When I first started, I never saw much of anything that dealt with online content. Now, I'd say that maybe 5-10% of the protective orders ("Harassment Restraining Orders" in my state) deal with students (mostly high school and college) interacting via My Space or Facebook. So I do believe that "cyber bullying" is happening, at least to some extent. Some of it is BS, like parents not approving of their underage daughter's racy pictures of herself and the much-too-old boyfriend, or an angry match.com breakup, or whatever.

    Additionally, I don't believe we need any new laws to deal with this. At least I haven't personally seen a need yet. Generally, the existing harassment laws do just fine. They are already written broadly enough to cover "communications" via a number of methods. If someone communicates with you after you've told them you find their contact harassing, the law covers it, whether it's by phone, mail, in-person, or email. Special laws to cover the internet will only make it more difficult to do my job, and more importantly the job of the judges who ultimately make the decisions. And believe me, they are not well equipped to understand online material. Boiling it all down to "communications" is just easier. Court personal and prosecutors are already overworked in many areas, and complicating matters further will basically just mean that either other cases involving more traditional speech will have to be given a lower priority, or that none of it gets the attention it needs.

    The one situation that's hard to handle is postings to other people's blogs that are unconnected to the recipient. Trying to analogize a blog posting is a bit difficult -- it's not like we've ever had much of a problem of people speaking bad of each other via physical billboards. But really, that's protected free speech, until it rises to the level of a treat. So essentially, the one situation a politician could conceivably attempt to control is basically impossible control due to that pesky constitution of ours (I know, politicians hate it).

    Bottom line, leave the law alone. Stop grandstanding. And throw enough money at the judicial system to be able to spend enough time of each case, and give prosecutors the money to have enough people to pursue the cases that need the most attention. But I suppose it's a lot easier to "JUST THINK ABOUT THE CHILDREN!!" by coming up with crazy laws, rather than simply funding courts.

  • by The Ultimate Fartkno (756456) on Sunday June 08 2008, @09:11PM (#23704145)
    Can't we just outlaw being a teenager? I mean, if you look at all the major sources of cattiness, abuse, insults, hatefulness, and other means of emotional abuse it's goddamned nearly always teenagers. I think that a much more logical response to this problem would be to execute each and every American child found guilty of being over the age of twelve. Once they're twenty we can pardon them, and then the entire world will be happy, peaceful, and in no way unpleasant.