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To Curb Truancy, Dallas Tries Electronic Monitoring
Posted by
ScuttleMonkey
on Mon May 12, 2008 12:15 PM
from the kids-aren't-people dept.
from the kids-aren't-people dept.
The New York Times is reporting that a school district in Texas is trying a new angle in combating truancy. Instead of punishing students with detention they are tagging them with electronic monitoring devices. "But the future of the Dallas program is uncertain. Mr. Pottinger's company, the Center for Criminal Justice Solutions, is seeking $365,000 from the county to expand the program beyond Bryan Adams. But the effort has met with political opposition after a state senator complained that ankle cuffs used in an earlier version were reminiscent of slave chains. Dave Leis, a spokesman for NovaTracker, which makes the system used in Dallas, said electronic monitoring did not have to be punitive. 'You can paint this thing as either Big Brother, or this is a device that connects you to a buddy who wants to keep you safe and help you graduate.'"
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Really... (Score:5, Insightful)
I wonder which of these two conclusions the students will come to.
Re:Really... (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Really... (Score:5, Funny)
You know, like an older sibling.
Parent
Or like an actual PARENT (Score:5, Insightful)
If parents would actually PARENT, maybe we wouldn't need so much of a "Nanny" state. But until that happens, comparisons to 1984esque totalitarianism is absurd.
Parent
Re:Or like an actual PARENT (Score:5, Interesting)
Children are a somewhat different case because, in theory, they don't have all of the information that they need to make effective decisions about their future. Unfortunately, physical enforcement of what you think they should be doing isn't going to improve them, it's just going to let them know that they need to be trickier if they're going to avoid an oppressive state.
For children you have three paths. The first is to help them realize that cooperating with those around them and being productive is the most effective long-term strategy for pursuing their happiness. The second is to convince them that the entire world is a bunch of screw-ups that are only vaguely kept in order through threat of violence. The third is to let them screw up and take their lumps. Of the three, the second is actually the one most likely to result in violent, oppressive, and harmful adults.
Parent
Re:Or like an actual PARENT (Score:5, Insightful)
There is certainly educational value in "taking your lumps" as you put it, however I think this type of learning is more appropriate for older age groups. For example, skipping class has potential consequences potentially decades away. By the time they figure out they've screwed up, it's too late to do anything about it. In the worst case, their "screw up" turns into a burden on society later on. As the saying goes, spanking your kid when he's four will save the penal system from doing it when he's forty.
In this specific case, truancy, I feel it's either school or GED + vocational training. School or job, in other words. Either way they're a lot less likely to end up being useless later in life.
=Smidge=
Parent
Re:Or like an actual PARENT (Score:5, Insightful)
And if the government is going to be held responsible for the welfare of the children, and if the government is later responsible for supporting those children when they become unemployed adults, then they really ought to be permitted to use this kind of method to help. After all, being responsible for all of the children in the nation is a big task. They need some sort of tool for identifying, tracking, and measuring the status of each one.
Of course, if this is not the sort of thing you want the government doing, then put the responsibility back on the parents. Don't make "no child left behind" the issue that decides your vote. Don't vote for candidates who support widespread welfare programs. Because this is the natural result of that sort of thinking.
Parent
Re:Or like an actual PARENT (Score:4, Insightful)
Which is why Vocational Education is often treated as a dumping ground...
Don't wonder why the US has a shortage of SKILLED workers such as pipe welders (starting wage often is $20/hr plus per diem!) when physical labor is scorned. Let the droputs who want to VOLUNTEER go to vocational school, but don't inflict losers on the rest of the students who want to learn. It wastes their classmates and instructors time.
Parent
Re:Or like an actual PARENT (Score:4, Interesting)
Parent
Re:Or like an actual PARENT (Score:5, Insightful)
I am the parent of a teenager who, if we lived in Texas, might be subjected to this idiocy. The likely outcome if it were applied to her would be more resistance to authority, more risky behavior and a greater likelihood of catastrophic consequences, including inappropriate escalation of repression by dim-witted authorities.
Fortunately we live in a less pig-ignorant part of the country, so we were able to make other arrangements. They involved giving her more personal responsibility rather than imposing more restrictions and privacy invasions. For her this solution has worked. Another thing to keep in mind is that kids are different and what's medicine for one could well be poison for another. I don't trust a committee of state employees to be able to make this kind of assessment, and I trust them even less to make timely corrections if the approach isn't working.
What's lacking in all layers of the US government is adherence to the principle that people should be left alone unless they are doing something violent or predatory. Micromanagement like this is a symptom of deep pathology on the part of those doing the micro-managing. These idiots should be driven out of office and humiliated.
Parent
Re:Or like an actual PARENT (Score:4, Insightful)
Although there are some useful things to be learned in school, most skills beyond basic reading can be easily learned when one feels the need. I won a national competition in math, but now I remember zilch from high school algebra. I frequently come to work late and sometimes make silly excuses when I miss a meeting, yet I am one of the most productive employees in the team.
So if my daughter occasionally skips classes I don't see it as a grave offense punishable by making her wear a GPS tracking bracelets like convicted felons on probation. I will certainly talk to her and may cut off her entertainment activities for a time, but I will rather move out of the country than allow government to treat her like a criminal. If she just skips a couple of classes per month, I will just chuck it off to her being a kid.
Parent
Re:They are only free to screw up (Score:5, Insightful)
First off, I do agree that our school system has gotten weak, and that we don't enforce discipline. Discipline, btw, is the most importance concept in any modern debate involving education. Discipline, means responsibility and consequences, or course, both of which are lessons we are sorely lacking.
When I was in the school system (in the early 90s) far more time was spent telling me that Mexicans and Black people were people too, and that I should respect them, than teaching me math or reading skills (much less "critical thinking" skills), to me this was an unconscionable crime, with the latter the former is obvious, with the former your nothing more than a tolerant, but illiterate, imbecile.
I take affront, though, at your last line. The rights of individuals always trump society, unless those rights conflict with the rights of other individuals. Society, as such, has no rights, it is merely a collective of individuals. Holding society above individuals is the basis of all tyrannies and atrocities.
Just a little nit-pick.
Parent
Re:Really... (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:Really... (Score:4, Funny)
You know, like an older sibling.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Really... (Score:4, Insightful)
If I lived in that school district and they tried to put one of those Lo-Jack things on my kid, I would wield the ACLU and smite the school district with them while shouting "SMITE" (Bard's Tale fans rejoice!)
Do they have any idea what this sort of douche-baggery would do to someone psychologically? They put electronic tethers on convicts for crying out loud. These are OUR CHILDREN! Maybe there is a reason that children are fleeing our public schools in record numbers... and maybe that reason should be looked for somewhere other than the children!
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
1. Big Brother
2. a buddy who wants to keep me safe and help me make parole
Is there really any doubt in anyone's mind what this is?
Re:Really... (Score:5, Insightful)
The students in the program were given the option of either submitting to GPS monitoring, or being placed in Juvenile Detention.
Whether or not you agree with the concept of house arrest, this seems like a logical extension of that concept to troubled youths.
Personally, I think this seems to have a much greater possibility of actually working than sticking all of the troubled students together in a prison-like environment.
At the very least, it's better than any of the other alternatives on the table.
Parent
Re:Really... (Score:5, Insightful)
This is an option, its when truancy gets to the point that the student is going to be taken to juvenile detention. I would much rather see the kids restricted to their own home and school rather than sent to kiddy jail. The environment there is NOT going to help them much. If anything, its going to further warp their view of authority and government and they will be worse coming out than they were going in.
As someone born, raised, and schooled in Dallas, I'm 100% supportive of this program.
Parent
Re:Really... (Score:5, Insightful)
That said, what is the inherent advantage of putting an obvious I-don't-want-to-be-here in a class "dragging everyone else down" (generality used on purpose, relax)? I mean, really?
I only see three options
These are serious questions
Parent
Re:Really... (Score:5, Insightful)
We know someone, somewhere will develope and sell this or similar technology and we need to know how we are going to answer back. Lobby congress to allow jaming technology? Doubtful that will happen. Create scanners so we can atleast know when we are being tracked? More likely, but only a partial solution.
Hopefully someone smarter than me can think of a solution to what I think is an inevitable problem.
Parent
Re:Really... (Score:4, Informative)
Fortunately, Congress doesn't get to legislate Maxwell's equations, and homebrew GPS jammers [notserver.com] are within the reach of hardhackers.
I'm sure outlawing GPS jammers will prove as effective as outlawing guns and heroin has.
Parent
Bryan Adams High School? (Score:5, Funny)
A spokesman for the school administration added that "We can't stop this thing we've started.".
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
To quote the end of 1984:
He gazed up at the enormous face. Forty years it had taken him to learn
what kind of smile was hidden beneath the dark moustache. O cruel, needless
misunderstanding! O stubborn, self-willed exile from the loving breast!
Two gin-scented tears trickl
Not big brother? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Not big brother? (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Not big brother? (Score:5, Insightful)
Give him a shovel and have him work for a living.
Forcing an extended artifical childhood on people is highly unnatural and
only leads to an obvious conflict between authority and instinct. If people
don't want to go to school then don't force them. Schools should be places
were those interested can get ahead, not some sort of prison. Treating schools
as prisons and daycare just undermines their alleged goal.
If you can't keep the truant interested than the school has failed to be relevant.
Parent
Re:Not big brother? (Score:5, Insightful)
Give him a shovel and have him work for a living.
Forcing an extended artificial childhood on people is highly unnatural and
only leads to an obvious conflict between authority and instinct. If people
don't want to go to school then don't force them. Schools should be places
were those interested can get ahead, not some sort of prison. Treating schools
as prisons and daycare just undermines their alleged goal.
If you can't keep the truant interested than the school has failed to be relevant.
If the truant students would stay out of class, my kids could get a decent education. But no, they force these disinterested, undisciplined kids in to an already over crowded class room - and nobody learns anything. The teacher is there just to make sure everyone stays alive.
If they really want to scare these kids back into the class room - make them get a job from 8a-3p during school. After a few weeks of flipping burgers or shoveling cow shit - these kids might take school a little more seriously. And in the mean time they'll be paying taxes on their wages.
Profit!
Parent
Re:Not big brother? (Score:5, Interesting)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Must parents agree? (Score:5, Insightful)
I was going to say that I have a problem with it no matter what, but on second thought, I think the question should go to the parents. Minors have limited rights, and if the parents want to monitor them using tools the state provides, in order to keep them in school, maybe that's OK. (Personally, if it were my kid, I would consider this a very desperate measure - it certainly doesn't foster mutual trust and respect.)
On the other hand, if this is forced on students without parents' consent, then it's a big problem.
Consider this: parents have a right to know where their kid is at all times; the school should only be concerned about that during school hours. When is the tracking turned off?
Parent
Jokes come true (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Jokes come true (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't be silly, prison is nothing like school;
In prison, you don't have to ask permission to use the toilet.
In prison, you have free time when you can think.
In prison, you can get time off for good behavior. If you do well in school, they give you extra work.
If they make you work in prison, they have to pay you.
If you escape from prison, the law comes after you. If you escape from school, the law comes after your family.
If prisoners get into fights, the guards separate them.
There are organizations dedicated to monitoring conditions in prisons, and keeping them from being inhumane.
Parent
The alternative is much worse (Score:5, Insightful)
* The kids in the program were on the verge of being sent to the Texas Youth Commission, aka Juvenile Detention.
* Once you're in the TYC, you're likely to be beaten, raped, and held indefinitely [washingtonpost.com].
When the choice is between being treated *like* a criminal, versus learning to *be* a criminal in Texas highly successful Criminal Conversion System, I think it's pretty obvious why any judge would choose to give the kid an ankle shackle instead of condemning him to (eventual) death.
Of course, the "choice" is mind-numbingly stupid. Now that the story of the TYC abuses has finally broken [capitolannex.com], maybe the next legislature will do something about the broken system that turns minor offenders into hardened criminals. Not likely, of course, because nobody ever got voted out of office for putting *too many* men, women, or children in jail.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
While I support education in all it's forms, I fail to see how forcing someone by law to be somewhere involuntarily for 6 hours / day 5 days / week 39 weeks / year for about 12 years can not be considered a form of imprisonment.
These cuffs sound like a natural progression of forced education. And of course only the children who resist will be subject to them. There's no need to impose more force on someone who choses to cooperate with their incarceration voluntarily.
Re:The alternative is much worse (Score:5, Funny)
sarcasm
Parent
Doublespeak? (Score:4, Insightful)
What's next? Tattoos on the backs of the necks of the little snowflakes? Where are these kids parents, why aren't they getting involved and paying attention to what their kids are doing?
Sounds about right (Score:3, Interesting)
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. - Benjamin Franklin
Freedom includes the right to screw up. Trying to protect people from themselves is the worst kind of tyranny. I only wish more people would realize this.
Re:Sounds about right (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Big Brother (Score:3, Insightful)
However, I don't, and I did quite fine all by my self. The government can't even keep track of laptops, how are they supposed to keep track of kids?
It's total bull, just like airport security, only more intrusive. Why do all these "tracking" programs get tested on school kids? Just to get them used to the idea so by the time they're adults, they don't know any better...
It's shameful.
"Big Brother"'s original purpose... (Score:4, Insightful)
This just reinforces the message that... (Score:4, Insightful)
I call BS (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:I live in Dallas (Score:4, Informative)
I live in the Dallas area, although I wasn't born or raised here. I don't think this is a reason to be ashamed of Dallas, just the Dallas ISD. The crap that the DISD board and administration pulls never ceases to amaze me.
Parent
Re:I live in Dallas (Score:5, Insightful)
Totalitarianism comes one small step at a time, never in one giant sweep.
Parent
Re:I live in Dallas (Score:5, Insightful)
TFA clearly states that this is being used for kids with very serious truancy problems. It's not for some kid who's late a couple times. And if the kid prefers to wear the transmitter and go to school, great. And if not, he is detained under more traditional circumstances. At no time is the school system sneaking up on kids and tagging their ears -- this is a choice given to the kid and his family.
In theory, I agree with others around here that if it gets to this level, the parents relinquished control at some point. But be that as it may, until the kids are 16 they're not only the parents' responsibility, but the community's as well. You may take issue with the laws surrounding that issue, but that's not the point. The point is to make the child comply with existing attendance laws, and this seems to me to be a better way than locking them up with other kids who have screwed up their lives in whatever widely varying ways.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
you haven't been to deep ellum recently, have you?
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Buddy? (Score:4, Informative)
Parent