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US Ignores Unwelcome WTO IP Rulings
Posted by
samzenpus
on Wed Mar 26, 2008 07:51 PM
from the do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do dept.
from the do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do dept.
Eye Log writes "The United States is a big fan of leaning on other countries to tighten IP and copyright protection, but has a tendency to ignore its own obligations when it doesn't get its way. 'Two ongoing cases illustrate the point. First, the European Union is pushing for the US to change a pair of rules that it calls "long-standing trade irritants." Despite World Trade Organization rulings against it, the US has not yet corrected either case for a period of several years... Apparently, it's easy to get hot and bothered when it's industries from your country that claim to be badly affected by rules elsewhere. When it comes to the claims of other countries, though, even claims that have been validated by the WTO, it's much easier to see the complexity of the situation, to spend years arguing those complexities before judges, and to do nothing even when compelled by rulings.'"
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Submission: US IP hypocrisy: ignoring unwelcome WTO rulings by Anonymous Coward
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Proper syntax (Score:5, Funny)
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<sarc>Yeah, but everyone knows that Irish music sucks so its just not the same as when people copy Brittney Spears.</sarc>
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Re:Proper syntax (Score:5, Funny)
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And you are surprised because ... ? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:And you are surprised because ... ? (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:And you are surprised because ... ? (Score:5, Interesting)
Of course a corporation uses it's influence to try to get favorable WTO rulings enfored with an iron fist, and unfavorable rulings delayed or ignored. That's how they're supposed to act. Ideally congresscritters would care about the people they represent, but it's hardly news that they instead care about they corporations that they represent.
I disagree that the "US government considers themselves to be kings of the world and that their laws and points of view should prevail over everything and everyone else", as the "US government" isn't a person, it's composed of people who are just trying to do what's best for their campaign contributers.
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Re:And you are surprised because ... ? (Score:5, Insightful)
It's hypocritical for representatives of the US government to lambaste other countries for WTO "violations", when the US Government turns a blind eye to infringement happening in their own country.
Either the US government is for strict interpretation and enforcement or it's not. Pick one.
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Re:And you are surprised because ... ? (Score:5, Funny)
It's hypocritical for representatives of the US government to lambaste other countries for WTO "violations", when the US Government turns a blind eye to infringement happening in their own country.
In the words of our Vice President: So?
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Re:And you are surprised because ... ? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:And you are surprised because ... ? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:And you are surprised because ... ? (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:And you are surprised because ... ? (Score:5, Informative)
Well, you should. People have been "Godwined" out of calling American fascism what it is for far too long. Any time anyone dares to point out that the current state of the US government, with its collusion between corporate and political interests, is turning into the very definition of fascism, they're greeted with howls of righteous fury and snide comments like, "When we start rounding up all the Jews and throwing them in death camps, let us know." But fascism is essentially an economic philosophy, not a racial or religious one; the anti-Semitism that went along with the German variety was pretty much absent in Italy, where fascism was invented and named.
The funny thing is that the same right-wingers who mock people who call American fascism by its proper name are very quick to label their political opponents "Communists" or "Marxists," even though no mainstream American politician, no matter how leftist, has ever come close to proposing anything like true Communism or even socialism. (People who think the New Deal and its sequelae are socialist have no clue what they're talking about.) But the "moderate" policies praised by centrist Democrats and Republicans alike are straight out of Mussolini's playbook.
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Re:And you are surprised because ... ? (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:And you are surprised because ... ? (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:And you are surprised because ... ? (Score:5, Interesting)
The US may want to reconsider its behavior. It's failing dollar, failing industries and general economic decline means WTO-sanctioned actions against it may in the future have a far more potent result. Today it's tiny little guys like Antigua, but imagine if China or the EU were given similar favorable rulings. It could devastate already-ailing industries.
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Re:And you are surprised because ... ? (Score:5, Insightful)
Perhaps you could explain just which part of that article you're talking about. Because I can't see it.
Which part of that requires, or even condones, being an amoral asshole? So many MBA types think they have a licence to kill by just saying "Fiduciary duty compels me toParent
Re:And you are surprised because ... ? (Score:5, Informative)
It's nothing new to Canada and our long-standing disputes over softwood lumber and other issues. The US even ignores it's own courts when it doesn't like the rulings.
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Re:And you are surprised because ... ? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:And you are surprised because ... ? (Score:5, Insightful)
This is a really interesting case, in that the U.S. is using a related WTO ruling on this matter to ignore the NAFTA Extraordinary Challenge Committee (ECC) ruling. So, WTO rulings are welcomed on one hand, and ignored on another.
http://www.ictsd.org/weekly/05-09-07/story4.htm [ictsd.org]This approach makes it pretty hard to deny assertions that trans-national trade agreements are welcome in the United States, as long as they are favourable; if not, fsck them. This isn't free trade, it is using free trade as a means to remove trade restrictions viewed as punitive or restrictive against U.S. trade.
In my experience, this speaks directly to opposition in Canada against free trade agreements. The folks I argue out the problems of the world over scotch and beer with are not so much against free trade, but rather are skeptical as to whether 'free' has bi-directional meaning in practise.
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Re:And you are surprised because ... ? (Score:5, Informative)
Well, that would be YOUR point of view. Canada's point of view is different.
That's why we have courts...in this case, the WTO.
And the WTO court found your point of view to not reflect reality, and Canada's point of view to reflect reality much, much better. Repeatedly.
And every time, the US effectively ignored the court ruling. Please, I don't want to start an argument over softwood lumber. I'm just stating the facts: the WTO ruled against the US, and the US did not adjust its behaviour the way they would have insisted on another country doing had another country received the same ruling.
The headline on this story would have been more correct by removing the "IP" from the sentence. "The US ignores unwelcome WTO Rulings" - of every kind. Maybe not ALL of them, but certainly some cases that are matters of much, much journalistic coverage. Many of these cases pre-date the Bush2 administration.
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Re:And you are surprised because ... ? (Score:5, Informative)
It's a real pity that no one, not even the WTO or NAFTA actually agrees with this claim. Of course, repeating lies over and over to get your way is a classic example. The reality is that your sawmills basically want to turn Canadian forests into private wood lots, to enforce their own model of forestry on a sovereign state.
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Re:And you are surprised because ... ? (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:And you are surprised because ... ? (Score:5, Insightful)
The US is a sovereign nation with a sovereign government given the power to enact treaties with other nations. If you expect other nations to live up to their side of the treaties you like, then you have to stick to your obligations under the ones you don't like. The US is no longer in the position where it can violate whatever treaty it likes without consequences. This is not 1950. You aren't even the world's largest economy any more and the status of the dollar as reserve currency is the lowest it has been since the signing of Bretton Woods.
Simple self interest ought to be enough to motivate the US to abide by the agreements it has made.
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Re:And you are surprised because ... ? (Score:5, Informative)
From Article VI:
"This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding."
Technically you don't need an amendment to change the Constitution and the supreme law of the US, all you need is 67 Senators and the President to concoct and agree to a treaty with a foreign power. That treaty then has the same weight as the Constitution.
Retired NJ Superior Court Judge Andrew Napolitano has written a couple of books which touch on the subject of how the federal government has been able to subvert the Constitution. Check out "Constitutional Chaos" and "The Constitution in Exile"
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Re:And you are surprised because ... ? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Hypocricy rampant in the Whitehouse... (Score:5, Insightful)
Lack of Campaign Funding (Score:5, Funny)
Powerful Countries often ignore the rules (Score:5, Interesting)
It basically comes down to this. If you are powerful, you can ignore the rules. If you are not, you may well be in serious trouble.
Re:Powerful Countries often ignore the rules (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:Here's the BEEF!!! (Score:5, Informative)
I would rather eat raw Swedish chicken than to touch American beef.
Couldn't find any numbers regarding beef but look at the ammount of salmonella in the US: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salmonellosis#Incidents_of_salmonellosis [wikipedia.org], 16% of the chickens had salmonella compared with Sweden where 1% of all the animals got it http://www.smittskyddsinstitutet.se/sjukdomar/salmonellainfektion/ [smittskyddsinstitutet.se], the stats are from the Swedish CDC, unfortunatly I couldn't find the numbers in english on the site.
In Sweden when ever salmonella is discovered the whole shipment of food is destroyed and if salmonella is found at a farm then all animals are destroyed.
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Well (Score:5, Funny)
Who cares really? (Score:5, Insightful)
Paying for radio? (Score:5, Insightful)
Exactly. How is Europe so completely backwards on this issue? Every pair of ears that listens to the songs is a pair of ears that listens to the ads as well, and those ads pay the bills. I would think the radio stations and music labels would be GLAD to have people listening to them in workplaces and waiting rooms.
If these laws were enforced in the USA, there would be riots, then it would be silence or royalty-free classical music only.
What bureaucratic knot did they invent to justify why should it cost money if you listen in a place of business when it's designed to be a free-to-receive service?
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Re:Paying for radio? (Score:4, Insightful)
However, let's not lose sight of the point here, which is the double standard. We have some pretty absurd requests of other countries too, and if we expect them to go along with our absurd requests, we're going to have to go along with theirs.
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I'm not sorry to see this. (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes, there is likely hypocrisy in this on the part of the US, but "do as I say, not as I do" on the part of the US is not news to anyone here. What I am glad to see, though, is that most countries seem to have some willingness to ignore at least some of the ridiculousness inherent in "intellectual property" law. The idea that ideas can be owned and hoarded is dying, and anything that hastens its demise is fine by me. How can one hoard ideas in a world where knowledge, information, and media are simply at the end of one's fingertips on a keyboard?
Autonomy (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Autonomy (Score:5, Insightful)
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Thank you US government (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Thank you US government (Score:5, Insightful)
for the rest of us there's:
the dmca
local monopoly power for ISP's
rubber stamped mergers across the board (you have freedom of choice! you can choose "the x company" or nothing at all!)
the real id act
the patriot act
warrantless wiretapping and retroactive immunity when we sue for it
continuous streams of supreme court rulings which invalidate the crumbling constitution (see anything signed by souter)
the rise of the fourth estate, which is now so in bed with the government it may as well be state run.
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Better Examples Please (Score:5, Insightful)
US trade policy is self-serving, we all know that. But couldn't the author provide some good examples to really make the point? These are pretty weak:
=> I would be willing to wager that most everyone commenting on this thread would consider that fair use.
=> Weren't the trade sanctions against Cuba put there and don't they remain there in part because of Cuban human rights abuses? The governments calling USA to task on this have companies which have "invested in Cuban business". The trademarks are not protected in the US to limit Cuban companies profiting from these trademarks in the US. If other countries want to sell their rum in the US under a protected trademark, they seem free to use a different trademark. Whether US trade sanctions against Cuba are moral or justified is a different issue from IP.
=> Legal gambling outfits in the US follow strict gambling laws that regulate, among other things, machine calibration, payout ratios, etc. Online gambling from other countries is outlawed in the USA because the mechanisms to ensure fairness can not be physically confirmed by government representatives.
China crisis (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes. That explains those extensive sanctions against China too.
Oh, hang on
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It's True (Score:5, Informative)
I have no doubt that the US will recover from it's financial woes. The world economy is changing though, and competition for resources is increasing. The US's negotiating position is changing as well. Instead of being the one of a few major buyers of commodities, they are now among many. Ignoring multilateral trade rulings as a routine is going to end as a consequence. At least if the US government is smart about it.
Re:IP stakes are "increasing"? (Score:5, Insightful)
Any economist foolish enough to believe in "IP" as a long term foundation for an economy is not only incompetent, but dangerous to whomever he councils.
You either take action against outsourcing or you face the slides happening in the US economy now.
jobs get outsourced
government doesnt take action
rents go up, job opportunities go down, inflation occurs as your constant trade imbalance floods the rest of the planet with fiat money.
economies are based on production of real goods and services, not residual income dependent only on the willing
compliance of neighbors.
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Re:There is no World Government... (Score:5, Insightful)
Note that this is significantly different than treaties,
You seem to be under the impression that the WTO is an organisation that just appeared out of thin air -- rather than, say, as a result of lots of countries signing up to binding agreements -- also known as "treaties" (such as GATT and the Marrakesh Agreement).
If you think it's a good thing for your country to abdicate the responsibilities it has itself assumed under the provisions of treaties it willingly signed, then you are simply wanting your country to be a criminal, or rogue state.
By the way, remind me never to sign any contract with you ...
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Re:Uh oh (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Uh oh (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Uh oh (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Veto Powers Abused too! (Score:4, Insightful)
The will of the world is expressed through General Assembly Resolutions, but perversely they are non binding, whereas the UN Security Council dictatorship resolutions are binding. Then again, it wouldn't really matter if the General Assembly resolutions were binding, because powerful countries like the US, Russia, China etc would just ignore them. Since the major powers clearly have no interest in obeying the rules, it comes down to who is militarily powerful, and that is a very poor lesson to teach the rest of the world. The result of all this is that more and more countries will try to develop nuclear weapons in an attempt to join this "power club".
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Re:Veto Powers Abused too! (Score:4, Insightful)
That's the kind of situation that currently exists internationally and it's not a good thing.
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Re:We Should Really Give the WTO (Score:5, Insightful)
Furthermore, cheating on sales tax is a lot easier than cheating on income tax. Imagine buying a $10,000 car - if you have to pay 30% sales tax, that's $13,000 total. Now suppose you offer to pay $11,500 cash if the dealer doesn't report the sale: you both gain $1500 and no one will notice, unless you want to keep the IRS around and let them audit every business's inventory.
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Re:Sigh (Score:5, Funny)
The Canadian only has _one_ maple leaf on his backpack.
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