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70% of P2P Users Would Stop if Warned by ISP
Posted by
Zonk
on Mon Mar 03, 2008 03:52 PM
from the oh-hai-there dept.
from the oh-hai-there dept.
Umpire writes "As the UK considers a three strikes policy to fight copyright infringement, a new survey reports that 70% of UK broadband users would stop using P2P if they received a warning from their ISP. 'Wiggin commissioned the 2008 Digital Entertainment Survey, which found that 70 percent of all people polled said they would stop illegally sharing files if their ISP notified them in some way that it had detected the practice. When broken down by age group, an unexpected trend emerges: teenagers are generally more likely to change their behavior than older Internet users.'"
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Technology: UK Government To Terminate File Sharers' Net Access 411 comments
An anonymous reader writes "New plans published by the UK Govt show that they hope to terminate internet access for people suspected of breaching copyright by file sharing. Under the proposed new laws ISPs who fail to enforce the policy will face prosecution in the courts. Users falling foul of the new law will be subject to a three strike policy: First suspected instance of illegal file sharing they would receive a warning, at the second — a suspension, and at the third they will have their Internet connection terminated. It isn't clear whether users will be prevented from ever using the internet again, or whether simply subscribing to a new ISP will reset the process."
Submission: 70% of P2P users would stop if warned by ISP by Anonymous Coward
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I'm in the 30% (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Honesty (Score:5, Insightful)
Seems to me that the gov't came up to me on the very first day I ever worked and declared I would only get paid for about 25 of the 40 hours I work each week, and that they would take the rest. What's your point, other than that bad analogies make bad arguments?
Parent
Why -1? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Ignoring the fact that no one would be brave enough to try and pass a bill like that, I believe that is a little too harsh as you're not giving time for the markets to adapt and try new models. It'd make a lot of businesses bankrupt.
If you really wanted it to work you'd need to reduce copyright on all products to 10 years. At least there is then motivation for creating new works.
Unlikely? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Unlikely? (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Unlikely? (Score:5, Insightful)
From my perspective, enforcing those policies would be entirely within their mandate.
Parent
Re:Unlikely? (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
That's about the extent of what they can do given the terms, but given how few options there are for internet connectivity, it's a fairly serious threat.
Re:Unlikely? (Score:5, Insightful)
The terms are there to protect the ISP from lawsuit when the client gets sued by a copyright holder - it's not a mandate to become the police.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
"If you use our service to break the law, we'll disconnect you" is likely a valid, legally binding contract clause.
Re:Unlikely? (Score:4, Informative)
"If you use our service to break the law, we'll disconnect you" is likely a valid, legally binding contract clause.
It's unlikely that that is a valid, legally binding contract clause.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
However it is should not be up to the ISP to tel what is copywritten, what is hate speach or what is child porn. The only thing they can do when told about it (please let them not look actively for it) is to tell you that you MIGHT PROBABLY be doing something against the AUP, wich MIGHT if proven correct result in the
Re:Unlikely? (Score:5, Insightful)
Once they start down that road, its only a matter of time before someone sues them for something that came through their network. I mean, it's not so far-fetched to have a class action suit against a provider for allowing crackers to run mass automated remote exploits on their network...If I can recognize them on my end, then they should be able to recognize them on the network. Hell, that's trivial beside trying to determine whether someone is downloading kiddy porn or lol cats.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Out of curiosity, are you based in Europe? Even given the seemingly downward spiral of American rights or expression, I believe that hate speech is still legal here, and not at all deserving of being lumped with child-porn in a list of no-nos.
I know of several future lawyers who spend a lot of time on the net researching fringe movements and their psychology. A ban on the transmission of the hateful speech of these fringe gr
Re:Unlikely? (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
You're making the flawed assumption that for anything agreed to in a contract, any circumstancial evidence or means of verifying it is implicitly ok. Just because the contract with my landlord says I can't do certain things doesn't mean he can set up video surveilance in the apartment or lock himself in and search it any time he wants to. Some random guy on the street can't get me evicted just by making an accusation. The ISPs don't know, don't want to know, shouldn't know and what you're seeing is nothing
Teens are afraid of their parents (Score:2, Funny)
From: ISP
To: Teen
CC: Parents
Subject: We know what you did last Summer
Dear Teen, we know you've been pirating music. The people who make the music you love so much want you to know PIRACY IS THEFT!!!! If this doesn't stop we will have no choice but to SICK THEIR LAWYERS ON YOU!!!
--snip--
Later that day:
Mom: Susy, we have to talk. We don't care if you spend all night online with your 35 year old boyfriend who sends you dirty pictures, but this piracy thing stops NOW or no more Internet for you!
Susy
Reading the data another way... (Score:5, Insightful)
When broken down by who's paying the bills, an obvious trend emerges: People who have to answer to Mom and Dad as to why nobody in the family can get their email anymore are generally more likely to change their behavior than people can just buy another throwaway account.
But (Score:5, Informative)
Re:But (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Suggestive question (Score:5, Insightful)
Did they also asked: "Would you stop your perfectly legal activity, when reprimanded by your ISP?"?
Or: "Do you think it is right, that your ISP should monitor your activity on the internet?"
Re: (Score:2)
On top of that, the email I received didn't even directly implicate me. Basically they suggested I "secure my wireless connection".
I believe, at least with Speakea
Re:Suggestive question (Score:4, Informative)
Parent
Teenagers (Score:3, Interesting)
Because teenagers are more likely to feel they can't live without the internet. Older internet users may have been on it longer, but can remember a time when they easily lived without it.
is this the internets version of speeding (Score:4, Interesting)
Just like with speeding. You get pulled over, maybe you get off with a warning, maybe you get a fine and points (In the UK 12 points on your license and you lose it for a time), or maybe you get off with a warning. Either way you are more aware for a while - then you're back to your old habits.
Will downloading P2P copyrighted material be the same?
You get a warning, stop for a while (maybe change ISPs, so the new one doesn't have a record of your "offence") and then drift back to your old behaviour.
If this is a good analogy (comments?) is there really any way to stop it completely - or do people just expect to punish the most blatant offenders and keep everyone else, more or less, under control?
Re: (Score:2)
The thing is, you can download all the copyrighted material your HDs can possibly hold and no-one will really get hurt.
If all that happened from my driving 125mph on the interstate was that some execs at Sony BMG lost a couple of bucks... man I'd go buy a Z06 and drive 175mph across the country fifty times!
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Let's say everyone on a free way is driving 100mph when the speed limit is 70mph. What is the safer speed to drive: 70mph ? Or 100mph ?
Of course that might not be a fair example since if EVERYONE was speeding you don't really risk getting pulled over.
But the point is that driving fast does not necessarily mean driving dangerously. If you're alert, matching traffic, keeping your eye on the road and leaving adequate space between you and other vehicles you can drive quite fast and still
Re:is this the internets version of speeding (Score:5, Insightful)
In any case it's not the place of the ISPs to impose a (flawed) version of morality on anyone, just like it's not the place of the phone company to monitor my phone conversations for possible illegal or immoral content.
Parent
Encryption (Score:5, Insightful)
Commandment 11, Don't Get Caught (Score:3, Insightful)
it was further found (Score:5, Insightful)
get clue, riaatards. the game is over. you lose. your business model is dead, and cannot be extended with legions of lawyers
More like... (Score:5, Interesting)
70%? and for how long? (Score:5, Interesting)
If you want to get paid for your stuff, you better make sure all those that would pay for it legally have the option to...
case in point...regions on dvds. If say a blockbuster movie was released in DVD in the US but not in, say, ASIA...do you really think everyone of that 70% (that wanted it) will wait for it to be released?
The media groups need to embrace 'online'. They need to release product 'online'. They need to market it 'online'. They need to get everyone so hooked on getting their information 'online' that people 'offline' are looked at as pathetic. Then the media groups can release to the world...launch Ad campaigns to the world...and never have to worry about this region stuff again!
Mass warning-spam in 3, 2, 1... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
Zero, zip, zilch. They expect the ISP's to have done that from the get-go. It's in keeping with this sense of entitlement of theirs.
Response to the EU Commission (Score:5, Interesting)
Response to Commission from Pirate Party leader [falkvinge.com]
(the first few lines is a preamble in Swedish, followed by the actual letter in English.)
In short, this does not deal with copyrights and culture anymore. It deals with the cost to society of enforcing today's copyright. That cost involves the abolition of the messenger immunity, freedom of the press, and private communications as a concept.
No right exists in a vacuum - there is always a cost to society of enforcing that right. Without a proper cost-to-benefit analysis, no informed decision can be made.
When the warning comes, I would have questions... (Score:4, Insightful)
1. Yes I have been using P2P, but I have been torrenting legal stuff like unlicensed media and free software. So why the warning ?
2. Could you please give me the reasons as to why you think I am downloading illegal content ?
3. Could you please show me the logs which show I have downloaded illegal content ?
4. What are the methods you have followed to come to the conclusion that the stuff I am downloading is illegal ?
If the ISP has valid answers for my questions, I will have no choice but to comply. It after all, is the law. The answers however, I would need.
Source? (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm a self proclaimed British Media Expert, and I can hereby announce that a credible source has revealed to me that 85% of artists think privacy and free speech is more important than profit.
Sorry, but based on previous events "media lawyer" is not something which smells particularly credible.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Hilarious (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe in a less independantly minded country 70% is the case, but on this side of the pond the best response you will get is laughter.
Whoever posted this article, thanks for a much needed laugh.
Stupid Statistics (Score:5, Funny)
I wouldn't (Score:3, Insightful)
Poor Association (Score:5, Insightful)
Say Versus Do (Score:5, Insightful)
For how long? (Score:4, Insightful)
A lot of folks stop speeding for a while after they get a warning from a cop. Virtually none of them stop speeding forever.
Most people stopped using the networks which got downed, and if there's a high chance of getting caught using a particular service then yeah they're going to stop, but with encrypted connections, and the general fact that ISP's will only do what they're forced to by law or which benefits their bottom line, and you're probably looking at a pretty low number of people actually getting caught, so you're looking at pretty low risk.
I know the brits tend to have a please sir give me some more attitude when it comes to government shafting(or so it seems lately, though the US isn't much better), but this seems rather silly.
Re: (Score:2)
P2P traffic patterns just say you're doing P2P, not what you're sharing with peers. Plenty of legitimate applications use P2P (Skype, iPlayer, 4oD, not to mention legal BitTorrent sources).
Re:well then (Score:4, Insightful)
Some of us pirate to help the current Music and Movie industries implode quicker
Too bad pirating something you never would have bought does about $0 in economic damages.
What was your media budget pre-internet? That's about as much damage as you can inflict regardless of how much you piss off your ISP.
Parent
Re:well then (Score:5, Funny)
Parent