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Taiwan Group Responsible For 90% of MSFT Piracy
Posted by
kdawson
on Tue Feb 05, 2008 02:34 AM
from the so-this-means-the-bsa-can-disband-right dept.
from the so-this-means-the-bsa-can-disband-right dept.
Stony Stevenson writes "Microsoft claims that a small group led by a recently jailed Taiwanese man was the source of almost all high-quality pirated copies of its software up until his arrest in 2004. The claim suggests that Microsoft practically wiped out commercial piracy of its products with the arrest of Huang Jer-sheng, the owner of Taiwan-based software distributor Maximus Technology. Microsoft announced today that Huang and his associates. who were all recently sentenced to jail time, had been responsible for the 'production and distribution of more than 90 percent of the high-quality counterfeit Microsoft software products either seized by law enforcement or test-purchased around the world.'"
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High quality? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:High quality? (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:High quality? (Score:4, Interesting)
I can rescue, troubleshoot, surf with, and easily install from a variety of live Linux CDs.
The tools are there to build something similar:
http://www.911cd.net/forums/ [911cd.net]
using Windows PE exist, but MSFT doesn't bother. Too bad, really. It would make user lives easier.
Parent
Re:High quality? (Score:5, Informative)
Surprise!
THAT is what makes "recovery disks" crap, even more than the bloatware and crapware.
Parent
Re:High quality? (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:High quality? (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Re:High quality? (Score:5, Funny)
Obviously, he modified the software extensively before selling it. The fact that it was high-quality is, of course, what tipped people off that it wasn't an authentic Microsoft product.
Parent
By what standard? (Score:4, Insightful)
Of course it's high quality; it just doesn't meet your needs.
Vista is the first Windows infestation to officially, publicly acknowledge what serious MSFT-watchers have known for some time: the population of usees and customers are two entirely separate, non-overlapping groups.
The usees, of course, are the poor sheeple who bought a PC and naively expect Windows to "work" because it's the "market" "leader".
The customers are abviously the MPAA, RIAA and other "content" industry groups (collectively known as the MAFIAA (Media Authoritarian Fanatic Ass-farking of America) to friend and foe alike). Of course, "everyone" knows that all major media content these days is made using Macs or *nix boxen.
Their customers are happy as the proverbial clams with Vista. Especially since they never have to actually touch it!
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
High quality? (Score:5, Funny)
So they were responsible for 9 out the 10 pirate copies of Microsoft Flight simulator then?
Re:High quality? (Score:5, Insightful)
Slashdot needs a +1 "obligatory" modifier, so these sorts of jokes can be tagged as "obligatory" instead of "funny."
--
Toro
Parent
high quality? (Score:5, Funny)
Why doesn't MSFT sell these "high-quality" products instead of the crap they've been selling us for years.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Ah yes, Hobson's Choice...
If the theater only has one movie, it's true that you have a choice of watching it or not, but it's not true that you have a choice of movies to watch.
I think the OP was complaining about the lack of choices for software to buy, not about the ability to choose to refrain from buying computers. Assuming you've decided to give up on the old abacus and join the 21st century, if you walk into most stores, yes, you are forced to buy Microsoft products. You only "choice" here is Hobs
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
While it may seem grim with the lack of software choices at stores, are you aware there's plenty of quality operating systems available for free (legally)? Operating systems such as Ubuntu, OpenBSD, Solaris, just to name a few.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
quantifying the unquantifable! (Score:5, Insightful)
90% sounds like a nice marketing department developed figure.
Re:quantifying the unquantifable! (Score:5, Insightful)
These guys, on the other hand, seem to have been selling 'legitimate' copies of Microsoft products for real cheap -- That really does cut into Microsoft's market, which is people who are willing to pay for their products in return for either a clean conscience or to keep the MS police at bay.
Microsoft has no problems killing those pirates.
Parent
Re:quantifying the unquantifable! (Score:5, Insightful)
While I loathe and detest MS and their general operating methods, (particularly the whole BSA garbage), they are entirely justified in prosecuting this crew for fraud/forgery etc... though they may get bit by the "boy who cried wolf" syndrome as they, among others, have been claiming that every kid with a torrent client is a threat to the stability of the economic system itself. </rant>
Parent
Re:quantifying the unquantifable! (Score:5, Informative)
So they're only talking about the stuff they've confiscated and not claiming it's 90% of everything that exists.
Parent
Re:quantifying the unquantifable! (Score:5, Insightful)
So they're only talking about the stuff they've confiscated and not claiming it's 90% of everything that exists.
It is very hard to know how much casual piracy there is. However, it is far easier to know how much high-quality piracy exists, because we are talking about actual physical products here, tangible evidence. They are also manufactured somewhere. Then, assuming that law enforcement captures such high-quality piracy in a random sampling manner (that is, all such forged products have the same chance to be caught - a working hypothesis, debatable of course), then this Taiwanese group was the source of 90% of that. So, presumably (by statistical inference) this group is responsible for 90% of high-quality piracy.
It's a little surprising that a single group is so dominant in this area, actually, I wouldn't have expected it. However, the more interesting question is what will happen now: if suddenly 90% of these forgeries vanish off the market, what will the people buying them do? Will other suppliers fill the gap, or will the buyers turn to casual piracy, or to alternate OSes?
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
However, the more interesting question is what will happen now: if suddenly 90% of these forgeries vanish off the market, what will the people buying them do? Will other suppliers fill the gap, or will the buyers turn to casual piracy, or to alternate OSes?
It's not that interesting a question, methinks.
As these pirated copies were sold off as genuine, I'd guess that most of the users actually believed they were buying legitimate copies.
Therefore, most of those people will be off buying legitimate copies, directly increasing Microsoft's revenue (as opposed to casual pirates, who indirectly increase Microsoft's revenue by giving them free mindshare).
People will turn to alternate OSes when two conditions are met:
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
However, the more interesting question is what will happen now: if suddenly 90% of these forgeries vanish off the market, what will the people buying them do? Will other suppliers fill the gap, or will the buyers turn to casual piracy, or to alternate OSes?
It's not that interesting a question, methinks.
As these pirated copies were sold off as genuine, I'd guess that most of the users actually believed they were buying legitimate copies. Therefore, most of those people will be off buying legitimate copies
I'm not sure. If Windows cost them $10 before and now costs the full $150 or so, they won't just run to buy legitimate copies. I'm not saying they'll go off and run Linux - they might look until they find another pirated version, or get someone to help them download and burn one. Perhaps only a small minority might be motivated to seek alternate OSes, that is why I left this at the end of the list of options. But I seriously doubt the majority will just happily start paying full price.
Nature Abhors A Vacuum (Score:4, Interesting)
Also been in Mexico City where street vendors sell about any software title on the planet - some slick copies, some shoddy.
And I doubt the 90% figure. Looks and smells like some marketing drone pulled it out of his @ss.
Parent
Re:quantifying the unquantifable! (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Well Taiwan accounts e.g. for over 80% of the world's laptop production (at least that's what they claim here [taiwanembassy.org] - table in German only, but should be easy to read). So it would make sense that a lot of the industrial copying of software would be there, too.
Re: as opposed to casual piracy, where no money tr (Score:5, Interesting)
In the cases you give I am deprived of the product which is "pirated". Copying does not deprive the source of the product. You are making a very very strange comparison between copying and theft.
Let me put it this way ... if someone can take my paycheck, and leave me with exactly every cent in that paycheck, then they are welcome to it and I invite everyone to do the same.
not that I've ever encountered pirated software mind you
Parent
Re: as opposed to casual piracy, where no money tr (Score:5, Insightful)
Copying software doesn't deprive somebody of the version you copied, it deprives the creator/owner of their ability to legitimately sell copies of their work. That's what you are stealing when you copy.
Your same silly argument could be applied to counterfeiting currency: copying real money doesn't deprive anyone of their legitimate currency. The problem is, it devalues money by depriving the government of its ability to regulate the supply and value of money. That's why the Secret Service exists.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
However, the article and comment are both talking about professional piracy - burning discs and printing manuals and shrinkwrapping in boxes that purport to be the real things. When someone honest goes and buys one of those, $60 that was heading to MS is snatched away. The fact the money
The jail times. (Score:2, Informative)
"Huang was recently sentenced to four years in jail by a Taiwanese court. Three co-defendants received between 18 months and three years in jail. Six individuals were originally arrested in the case."
I wonder how rich they are off it.
Nightline:Thieves are amoung us. (Score:4, Interesting)
So now... (Score:3, Funny)
OMG (Score:3, Funny)
New pricing scheme? (Score:3, Insightful)
Good show, but hardly enough (Score:4, Insightful)
It's darned good that they caught the bastards, but wake me up when we stop 90% of the actual piracy in Asia.
This strikes me as a fluff piece for nervous investors.
--
Toro
Re:Good show, but hardly enough (Score:5, Informative)
It's darned good that they caught the bastards, but wake me up when we stop 90% of the actual piracy in Asia.
This strikes me as a fluff piece for nervous investors.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Just as a matter of interest, do they pirate things like Linux distros? I can see that people might sell convincing fakes of Redhat boxed distros, but I don't know if they'd sell. Perhaps if someone was getting what they thought was a support contract that turned out to be bogus?
Re:Good show, but hardly enough (Score:5, Insightful)
There is no demand.
See, it goes like that:
* Counterfeiter fakes software.
* Counterfeiter and in between person pose as distributor, selling the windows copies with a SMALL discount.
* Computer shops, always looking for a small gain (as margins are super slim) take that. Mind you, way talk about omaybe 5% less price, but if your margin is only 5% on the product, that doubles your margin.
The shop may not know the software is fake (it was a little chaper, but it could just have been a sale), and the end user definitly does not DEMAND fake software. The whole reason it is so high quality is that the purchase chain (shop, end user) do NOT REALIZE it is fake.
Criminal like hell. Nothing compared to copy some software where both parties know it.
Parent
Re:Good show, but hardly enough (Score:5, Interesting)
Criminal like hell. Nothing compared to copy some software where both parties know it.
>>
This appears to be the Slashdot consensus morality:
Make a perfectly functional copy, upload it to Pirate Bay, charge for advertising: No problem.
Make a perfectly functional copy, sell it on a CD-R, charge $1 for it: Very little problem.
Make a perfectly functional copy, sell it on a CD which looks real, charge $100 for it: Criminal like hell.
It would appear, on the basis of available evidence, that the Slashdot consensus doesn't give two bits about IP rights as applied to software, but thinks they are really, really important when applied to the distinctive branding on cardboard boxes. I suppose Microsoft should have invested more in Pretty Box Rights Management? It would probably make them more popular around here.
Parent
Re:Good show, but hardly enough (Score:4, Insightful)
See, if I ask you to copy me software, and you do, we do something illegal, and we can discuss the moral. But we both KNOW it. It is a fact, I dont pay, we know what we get into.
In this fact, there is the additional dimension that not only is software illegally copied, but it is done so to swindle an unsuspecting third party for money. It means that while the copy person knows it is fake, the person paying does not know so, and in fact THINKS he purchases it legally. Besides the obvious moral issue it opens that third party to legal claims, because he is comitting a crime by using this illegal copy, albeit not knowing it.
One case where "I did not know" is a very sad defense.
And this "betraying another unsuspecting party" does add tremendously. If I steal software, this is between me and the company putting it on the market, and the person allowing me to copy. If I make counterfeit software, I involve a third party that does not want to be in this game.
Parent
90% + 90% + 90%... Do they actually sell anything? (Score:3, Interesting)
Now I wonder:
A - Is it 90% of the 10% left from the previous "pirate" operation?
So, after three or four captures, it becomes clear they are actually selling legally less than 1/100 of a single copy.
B - Are the "pirates" stealing copies from other "pirates" and repitating them?
So, 10% of the copies would be legally sold and 90% would reach the final clients after being "pirated" about twenty times.
The "low quality" software (Score:5, Funny)
hmmmm (Score:5, Funny)
Strategic FUD? (Score:3, Insightful)
Of course, this couldn't ever really happen, but it does make you think...
Keys (Score:5, Insightful)
An exact copy of the pretty box and manuals and holograms and stuff is fine, but if it's an exact copy of the CD contents itself, it won't activate properly. Do they use hacked versions of the binaries? You'd think that would stand out (failed updates and such). Anyone know?
Re:high-quality (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually, no, it is not.
I surmise pirates really do offer better quality, as they conveniently remove the WGA and similar "protection measures", thus ensuring the user's copy of Windows will never ever get blocked by Microsoft. For instance.
Though I suspect that "high-quality copy" means "CD and packaging virtually indistinguishable from the original retail copy", not "a better product". Nevertheless, sometimes pirate copies are of quite higher quality than the original.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
One of my professors bought a copy of MATLAB to use for solving some filtering equations. (He taught the DSP courses) He installed the program on his laptop, but whenever he wasn't using his internet access, he couldn't use MATLAB correctly. I'm not sure why.
He finally just installed a pirated version and it worked flawlessly.
Technically, he wasn't pirating the software either, since he paid for a full licence. They weren't cheap, either. It runs about $25k for a full v
Re:good/bad pirate (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Why copy protection? (Score:4, Interesting)
This is 90% of professional piracy, therefore:
1) There are other vendors (see the other 10%), who really probably can expand to fill the spaces - ESPECIALLY since if these guys were apprehended so long ago there is a fine vista market ready for targetting. If you've already managed to circumvent the protection then you're only going to be limited by distribution and manufacture, which is hardly that big a hurdle
2) 90% of HIGH QUALITY piracy, NOT 90% of torrent downloaders and casual pirates. WGA, supposedly, protects against this, which is also a huge problem
Just getting pissy with copy protection is hardly worthy of mod points.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
No, they were not. We talk of high quality - the vendor bought from a distributor, who got it somewhere cheaper than from MS.
SOMEONE up the chain made a hugh profit.
This is the whole crux here - we dont talk about software someone who wants a pirated copy buys. We talk of softwarte that I could buy and sell a customer. Either cheaper (a LITTLE), or for the full price, and not me nor the customer would have t