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Leaked Government Doc Reveals UK ID "Coercion" Plans

Posted by ScuttleMonkey on Fri Feb 01, 2008 02:34 PM
from the sanity-is-not-statistical dept.
BoingBoing is relating a hair-raising tale from the UK anti-ID-register group 'NO2ID' that claims to have a leaked government document [PDF] detailing how the UK government plans to "coerce" citizens into a national ID register. "UK campaigners NO2ID this morning enlisted the help of bloggers across the world to spread a leaked government document describing how the British government intends to go about "coercing" its citizens onto a National Identity Register. The 'ID card' is revealed as little more than a cover to create a official dossier and trackable ID for every UK resident - creating what NO2ID calls 'the database state'."
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  • Big Brother was British, wasn't he?
    • The author was British but Big Brother was in the fictional country of Oceania.
      • by cybereal (621599) on Friday February 01 2008, @03:09PM (#22265886) Homepage
        Winston, the main character, lived within view of the headquarters of The Party of Oceania which would presumably house Big Brother if he actually existed. The location was called Airstrip One, which according to Winston, used to be known as London.

        Big Brother was British.
        • Big Brother was British.
          No evidence for that in the book. Oceania encompassed North America too, Airstrip one may have been its capital, it may not. However, Big Brother -- if he actually existed -- could just as easily have been Canadian or American.

          Comrade Brown, however, most surely is British. (sadly)
        • No, he wasn't. Oceania was created when the U.S. took over Britain. He was most likely an American.
        • Winston lived within sight of the Ministry of Truth, where he worked, not the Party headquarters. In fact it wasn't clear whether there even was a headquarters, but most of the Inner Party members lived in West London and the headquarters could easily have been in America for that matter. Airstrip One used to be known as Great Britain (i.e., the whole island), not London. London was still called London in Winston's time, and he speculated that it had probably been called that for a long time.

          The novel

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)


          >Big Brother was British.

          As was Orwell, who was satirizing his contemporary view of British society and government by framing it into a dystopian futuristic novel. But the situation that provoked him to write 1984 was his Labour party job that required him to participate in blacklisting people suspected of being communists. It turns out the real "Big Brother" actually *was* watching his every move and keeping detailed records, and that he really did have to write blatant fabrications on behalf of the g
  • Ironically.... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 01 2008, @02:37PM (#22265416)
    In shades of 1984 [amazon.com] , the report came from a new UK government agency called the Ministry of Privacy.
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      "The 'ID card' is revealed as little more than a cover to create a official dossier and trackable ID for every UK resident - creating what NO2ID calls 'the database state'."

      Hmm...sounds quite reminiscent of the US's upcoming version...the RealID act. In our case, they're just calling them drivers licenses....but, if you don't drive, you still need an ID that fits in with the RealID act. So, it really is a national ID, hooked to a national, govt. database.

  • by KublaiKhan (522918) on Friday February 01 2008, @02:41PM (#22265464) Homepage Journal
    Perfect opportunity to set up a few convenient aliases--with all the work that they'll be getting, the folks registering will likely not pay quite as much attention as they ought to new registrants. Voila, government-approved IDs, guaranteed to pass any test for fakes.

    Of course, getting past the initial screening may not be trivial--but investigation into that avenue may be worthwhile.
    • Since these ID's will be "official" for just about anything ...

      Find someone involved in issuing them who has a gambling / drug / sex / whatever problem who can be bought / blackmailed.

      The whole system breaks down when it depends upon the honesty of people.
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        This system shows that the ruling class is paranoid to the bone, I think it stems from the amount of poor people they see as potential threat to their pitiful life.

        They outright want to go back to the middle age serfdoms where people are owned, they see the 20th century as a nasty period when almost all would have went wrong for them.

        Being bribe able is a work prescription you need to have to be able to do certain jobs like being a politician, no honest person is able to do that job, being non bribe able ma
        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          I'm not sure I agree that the ruling class is entirely at fault here. I'd lay the blame squarely on the large middle class who are often all too willing to trade away their freedom for additional security. It seems to be a tendency of human nature to value something less when no effort was expended in obtaining it. Many of us are fortunate enough to live in a time and place where our freedom has been paid for by the blood of others, but the unfortunate result of this may be that we can never truly unders
            • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

              Funny you wrote that. I actually added 'perceived' after I had written the line, but then deleted it again. Here's why: I actually believe that removing freedoms can, in fact, actually increase security in some situations. The old Soviet Russia (sorry, cue the jokes...), from what I've heard, was a pretty secure place in many ways. Not so much freedom, though. The old American wild west was a dangerous place, but a libertarian paradise.

              I'll grant you that many policies don't do a damned thing while che
  • Broken link (Score:4, Informative)

    by SuperBanana (662181) on Friday February 01 2008, @02:44PM (#22265498)
    Boingboing appears to be down; I get "connection reset." Here's the NO2ID group's homepage [no2id.net]. Relevant searches on Google/Google News will probably turn up more information of interest than Boing Boing's shoot-from-the-hip sensationalism, anyway.
  • There's a noticeable lack of authorship details. It notes that various government departments have "contributed to" the options analysis, but I read that as simply saying that people from those departments have been interviewed in the course of performing this analysis.

    Does anybody know who actually produced this report? I'd hardly call the government a bunch of liars for opinions expressed in a report produced by outside contractors, but without any reason to believe otherwise, that's what this sound

  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 01 2008, @02:48PM (#22265544)
    One of the problems when we have ID cards is that some people are going to break solidarity with the rest of us by getting one and it will be arranged that they get benefits from it. I wonder if we could have a campaign where we ask people for ID and refuse to serve or help them if they show national ID cards. It would have to start with a gentle campaign where they are just given some information and told not to show their ID card again, but after that it could be quite effective. Can this be done without alienating people? It would definitely be worth it. Something to change the equation so that the kind of people who refuse to think beyond their next fish supper can see a benefit from refusing ID.
  • Be warned that the same effort is underway in the US through a push for the RealID legislations with the same sinister goals in mind.

  • NO worries (Score:5, Funny)

    by techpawn (969834) on Friday February 01 2008, @02:53PM (#22265628) Journal
    The database will be written in MSAccess and kept on someones hard drive until it crashes.
    • The database will be written in MSAccess and kept on someones laptop until it gets left in a pub or the back of a taxi by a pissed up junior bureaucrat.
      Fixed that for you.
    • We don't destroy our data in the UK, we just leave it lying about in cars or anywhere we can find really [bbc.co.uk].
    • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      No, no. It will be in an Excel file pasted into a PowerPoint presentation left on some nobs thumb drive which gets lost in the snow. Some homeless vet will find it and think it's a whistle and keep it in the crotch of his underwear. If that's not security through obscurity, I don't know what is.
  • Coercion (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 01 2008, @02:54PM (#22265640)
    Why is "coercion" in quotes? Coercion is the business of government. Government is, after all, the organization holding a monopoly on the special right to employ coercion as a business model. Coercion is what defines government.

    Put it this way: If the people actually volunteered to hand over their money and follow the aribtrary rules set forth by a central committee, then government would be entirely redundant. The reason why government exists is precisely because the people would not voluntarily hand over their money and follow that arbitrary set of rules.

    Again, coercion is the fundamental tool which all governments MUST hold -- otherwise it ain't government.
    • Re:Coercion (Score:5, Funny)

      by exploder (196936) on Friday February 01 2008, @03:00PM (#22265742) Homepage

      Why is "coercion" in quotes?
      I'm gonna go out on a limb here... ...because it's a quote?

    • Because the British government have made a specific promise that these ID cards will be "voluntary". So it is looking for every possible method to make people "volunteer" to have them: for example, by making you produce your ID card when you get a job, so everyone is forced to either "volunteer" for a card, or else be unemployed.
      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        for example, by making you produce your ID card when you get a job, so everyone is forced to either "volunteer" for a card, or else be unemployed.

        Will you be allowed to sign on if you are unable to get a job because you don't have an ID card?
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      Or... government officials could be paid the minimum wage that they themselves dictate, be excluded of all gifts and other monies, and constantly audited watched and surveyed by the public (with those little traffic cameras set up in every room, hey they're good enough for us), guaranteeing those who get the job really want it and does a really good job.
  • the book of revelations comes to mind and something about accepting the mark of the beast. could that be as simple as a db entry? you know that religous right fanatics should have a field day with this if it were to be tried here...then again...if their ministers tell them there's no harm, then they'll all go quietly.
  • Who cares? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by TheRaven64 (641858) on Friday February 01 2008, @02:57PM (#22265698) Homepage Journal
    This is the British Government we're talking about. They have shown themselves, time and time again, to be completely incapable of completing any IT project. Every time they try, they award the contract to EDS, it goes horrendously over-budget and ends up being cancelled. Expect the big brother database to go online some time around 2050, only be able to store first names, and crash losing all data the first time someone tries to run a query.
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      I suspect that you're right, but that doesn't mean that we're out of the woods on this one yet. Firstly, and most simply, is the fact that I can think of far better ways of spending billions of pounds than this. Secondly is that (as we have seen with no-fly lists) just because a database is inaccurate, it doesn't mean it'll be enough to put those in charge off using it for important and even life-changing work. Thirdly, as we have so recently seen, government agencies seem largely incapable of securing the
    • This is the British Government we're talking about. They have shown themselves, time and time again, to be completely incapable of completing any IT project. Every time they try, they award the contract to EDS, it goes horrendously over-budget and ends up being cancelled. Expect the big brother database to go online some time around 2050, only be able to store first names, and crash losing all data the first time someone tries to run a query.

      That sounds even worse. At least with a properly functioning sy
    • it goes horrendously over-budget and ends up being cancelled.
      A government contract that goes over budget? My God! How could such a thing happen?!

      Alert the press! Alert the watchdog groups!

      This can't be allowed to happen, again!
  • After reading the PDF (I know it is against /. rules...) I have two questions:

    1. Where can I sign up for the US version

    2. Can the US integrate out system into theirs??? That would only help to protect us all!!!

    I mean, after all, I am looking for all of the following:

    1. I want to know that I have the right to be here

    2. I want to know who you "really" are

    3. I want to join a service that meet my needs

    4. I want to be able to prove who I am

    P.S. I want to point out my sarcasm, as my last few posts li

  • by Abcd1234 (188840) on Friday February 01 2008, @04:20PM (#22266832) Homepage
    Honestly, I think we all have the necessary reading comprehension to see what the document is driving at. I don't need some ridiculous side commentary, which is wholly devoid of any useful insight, to help me understand the content of the document.

    Frankly, the commentary sounds like the rantings of some extremist, conspiracy-theorist wanker, and does nothing but muddy the issues, not to mention make reading the document more difficult, as I have to wade through their irritating scribblings.
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      Yeah, I am sure that the "gestapo" took the site down because they don't want anybody to see it...it couldn't possibly be that the pdf that was linked to was several MB, and there are a lot of people trying to get to it.
    • I'd LOVE to have a 'database society' ...

      Be careful what you ask for; the Government will probably choose MS SQL Server... DOH! :-)

    • I do understand what you are saying, but consider this...

      as long as I was in control of all my own information - You are in control of your information when you live in democracy where your elected representatives control and govern the actions and the scope of government. If you think that government has too much or too little information, you call your representative or try get yourself elected.

      It could be certified for accuracy by a trusted outside party - That would be the government.

      I'd have to a

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        I think that the problem both in UK and in US is that people don't truest their government. I don't know if this is because of history of wrong doing in part of the government, or because of television and movies...

        Unfortunately, I think that in the U.S. at least, most people *do* trust the government. I don't, and a lot of people here on /. don't, but I think that is more because history has shown again and again that governments that are not kept in check by their constituents tend to become abusive. In fact, the relative freedom that western societies have enjoyed for the last several generations are an historical aberration; one that I *don't* want to see corrected.

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        I think that the problem both in UK and in US is that people don't truest their government. I don't know if this is because of history of wrong doing in part of the government, or because of television and movies people automatically assume that anything new or something that makes governing efficient is an grand scale conspiracy to enslave the nation.

        My personal feeling is that democracy scales poorly, or at least not very smoothly, particularly in diverse populations. Democracy is predicated on the idea of compromise; of people finding a solution that works for everyone involved. If you have too many groups with radically different ideas of how the government should be run, to the point where a compromise between them can't be found, you start to get disenfranchisement and mistrust when "your" people aren't in power. The U.S. has throughout most of

    • You think a revolution is going to help? Replacing one government with another is only a temporary reprieve. Once the generation that dragged the last batch of tyrants to the guillotine dies off, people will forget what happened and grow complacent. They'll go back to saying "there ought to be a law" every time something doesn't go the way they think it should, and a new bunch of tyrants will corrupt the new government. Every revolution, even the American revolution of 1776, is a case of "Meet the New Boss,

      • Essentially you are correct. All politicians are corrupt ultimately, and not one of them can ever be trusted. However, revolutions do buy time. There are short term gains.
      • Not that I am suggesting people take up arms, but don't you think that the Founders of the US understood this? Why do you think they put the second amendment in place? It is asinine that it is a guarantee to hunt, as that would make about as much sense as the current congress making a law that guaranteed you the right to go to the grocery store. Like wise, it is absurd to think that it is for military use, as no nation every formed before or after, as ever felt the need to guarantee itself the right to a
        • by Lilith's Heart-shape (1224784) on Friday February 01 2008, @03:42PM (#22266328)

          I agree with you concerning the Framers' reasons for including the Second Amendment. However, I have to ask you why you think that simply overthrowing an oppressive government and replacing it will do any long-term good? Do you think that leading Congress to the guillotine will work in a country where most people, thanks to public education, think that consistent respect for individual rights means leaving poor people to starve to death in the streets?

          The American revolution was as successful as it was because of the people behind it, and I'm not just talking about the heroes you read about in school. Just about everybody in the colonies had at least a nodding acquaintance with the ideas of thinkers like John Locke and Thomas Paine.

          An armed rebellion today would fail miserably, because most of the people are beholden to the government. They either get money directly from the government, or they work in industries that receive government subsidies. Do you think, for example, that public school teachers will do anything but teach the children in their ever-so-tender care that the rebels are anything but villains?

          Before you can have a revolution, you need a people on fire with the lust for liberty. We don't have that, for the most part. Most people, if you were to tell them that it was possible to have a government that did not rob Peter in order to provide Paul with a welfare check, would laugh at you. Suggest repealing the income tax, and the first thing you'll hear is "how will the government replace those 'lost revenues', as if the government was ever morally entitled to that money in the first place.

          A revolution won't work right now. The people are not ready; they do not burn with a passionate need for freedom.

    • It's the only way. And don't think that the Conservatives aren't planning the same sort of thing. Remember that old saying about power corrupting?
      Correct. It is already too late for democracy to have any significant change in the UK. There are now two options: resist, or leave.

      Americans take careful note, don't allow things to get this far in the US.
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      "Well I'm already trackable as an individual through my social security number. How is this any worse than that?"

      Well, at this point, you don't have to give out your SS number, or have it scanned for travelling by airplane. Or soon...to be scanned when buying booze, or entering a bar...or maybe after that, for any CC transaction to validate identity.

      You aren't forced to carry it with you at all times, and have that number associated with many actions you take today in every day life. It can't really be u

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        > Well, at this point, you don't have to give out your SS number, or have it scanned for travelling by airplane. Or soon...to be scanned when buying booze, or entering a bar...or maybe after that, for any CC transaction to validate identity.

        Since you say social security number, I assume that you are an American citizen. You do know what the USA do with every foreigner entering the country, I assume? Taking 10 (!) fingerprints! Plus a scan of your passport, storing your credit card number, plus any other