HP & Dell Face Lawsuits From Exploding Hardware

An anonymous reader writes "Dell and Hewlett-Packard are both facing lawsuits over catastrophic equipment failures that lead to fires and injuries last year. 'In one case, a North Dakota auto lube shop owner claims that a Dell monitor he purchased caught fire and burned down his business ... meanwhile, an Arkansas man has sued HP, claiming that an HP Compaq Presario PC he purchased from Wal-Mart burst into flames, causing a blaze that destroyed his house and seriously injured his daughter.'"

Doesn't suprise me.

[DeeQ (1194763)]

HP Compaq Presario PC he purchased from Wal-Mart burst into flames, causing a blaze that destroyed his house and seriously injured his daughter.

Ah the price of shopping walmart. But on a serious note, these cases are so small and lacking airflow it doesn't really suprise me.

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[snl2587 (1177409)]

Still, I assume many average users really don't think a computer is going to catch fire...if the PCs are pre-built, they should include some sort of failsafe.

Re:Doesn't suprise me.

[morcego (260031)]

they should include some sort of failsafe

They do. That was the "self destruct" failsafe.

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[davidsyes (765062)]

Time for slogan changes:

Dell could have "Dell's Hells"

HP INvent needs to be PREvent (fiery laptops; incessantly, infuriatingly jamming duplexer HPLJ 2340...)

Re:Doesn't suprise me.

[qortra (591818)]

these cases are so small and lacking airflow it doesn't really suprise me.

The article isn't very clear on what exactly caused the fire in the presario, though it does use "electrical system to malfunction" in the case of the monitor that burned down the business. Suffice it to say, this might not be an issue of ventilation. More likely, they were severe electrical problems in all cases. I would bet money that the cause of the Compaq Presario "bursting into flames" was the power supply, and not a poorly ventilated processor. When they overheat, things just tend to melt. No low-voltage IC should ever "burst into flames", even in a poorly ventilated case. In fact, the poorer the ventilation, the fewer the flames.

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[morgan_greywolf (835522)]

And a properly-made power supply should never burst into flames. Normally, a power supply has a fuse in it that will blow to prevent the circuitry in the PSU from becoming overloaded. Sounds like there is a serious product liability issue with the PSU in the Presario in question.

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[qortra (591818)]

I might be willing to acknowledge that, though it really is well outside my area of expertise. On its face though, it does seem possible for a few hundred watts of power to ignite something. As long as the power supply maintains a nominal power consumption, the fuse won't blow. Also, if you are right, there must be a very decent number of improperly-made power supplies out there. On several occasion I have experienced (or have friends who have experienced) power supplies that have literally flamed/spark

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[sm62704 (957197)]

You are entirely correct. I've had two chip fans fail, and in both cases all that happened was that the PC stopped working when the CPU died from overheating. Nothing close to a fire.

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[RattFink (93631)]

No low-voltage IC should ever "burst into flames", even in a poorly ventilated case. In fact, the poorer the ventilation, the fewer the flames.

Heck no anything electronic should burst into flames. There is so much fire retardant in modern lectronics they have trouble 'bursting into flames' even from outside sources let alone themselves. What I have seen is counterfeit electrolytic capacitors vent flame, but never any amount that could start a house fire. Then again you never really know what they put in t

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[KillerBob (217953)]

Likewise, even a power supply would smoulder for hours if not days before it stood a chance of bursting into flames. Silicon doesn't burn quite as well as, say, oil. And unless there's a massive overvoltage on a wire, even the plastic insulation will smoulder a while before it reaches its flash point. That smouldering would produce a distinctive smell that would have anybody who's even halfway sane calling tech. support. If there's a massive overvoltage on the line, good luck suing them for defective hardwa

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[InvalidError (771317)]

When they overheat, things just tend to melt. No low-voltage IC should ever "burst into flames", even in a poorly ventilated case. In fact, the poorer the ventilation, the fewer the flames.

ICs are not immune to manufacturing defects and some manufacturing defects can lead to working ICs that develop into spontaneous combustion months later. One of my friends had a DRAM chip burst into flames in his (back then) year-old 486... the flame scorched the montherboard, second DIMM and the computer casing. The damn

Power supplies, power supplies!

[gnuman99 (746007)]

The problem is almost exclusively the power supplies.

Over the last few years, I had 5 power supplies fail, 2 of them with a giant bang. Heck, I'm sure that they would result in the place being burned to the ground if it wasn't for me pulling the cord out of the wall. The culprit in both cases was a cheap-ass power supply that came with the case of those $50 deals.

Scenario one. The box (P3-450) was powered off. Was changing the network card though I noticed the power supply was suspiciously warm even though it was off. When I plugged the box back in (didn't had time to turn it on), caps popped in the PS with 3 large bangs and 12V rail became 120V AC rail. Yanked the cord out of the wall within about 2 seconds but the damage was done. Everything connected to 12V was fried. Sound gone. CD/HD fried (CD drive opened spontaneously like in those horror movies and the CD that was in it flew out, hit the wall and shattered!). The mobo/CPU/ram survived as only the 12V rail was affected. Later, I plugged in the PS on the workbench and within 2 seconds there was a fire inside the power supply. I didn't wait longer to see what would happen, but I can image that the place would burn down if that PS popped in the middle of the night.

Scenario two. A different power supply. This was an old ATX power supply I was using for a different purpose - powering some equipment 5V equipment on stand-by power rail (yes, less power than it was rated for at that rail :). Was working fine for a long time. All voltages were fine. Then one day it just exploded in flames. Now, this PS was not in a PC at the time, so maybe not worthy of "burning the house down" scenario as it was only plugged in when someone was around.

The last 3 cases are power supplies that died or were about to die. One of a Antec 300W PS - that one worked fine then just stopped working. Another was an HP propriatory PS - working fine then not. Died the Right Way. And the third one was an unnamed PS that just stopped giving right voltages. The 12V went down to 9V over one year and system stability was gone.

So, at least 1 in 5 cases so far would result in "house burn down" scenario. Now, I do not keep any but the best PS boxes (Enermax) anywhere where a fire would destroy they house. The cheap ones are relegated to the concrete basement.

There is NO OTHER component of any electronic device but the power supply that can destroy your house. And yes, a monitor also has a power supply, though a bit safer than the PC box.

Of course, there is no 100% fire proof anything so the only way is to mitigate the problem, and also mitigate the energy waste problem at the same time. Unplug your devices when you are not using them. Unplug the TV/DVD/computer when you are not around. If you need the box up 24/7 (eg. server running your home phone system, bt, etc.), put that box in the basement on a concrete floor without flammables around it. For the rest, keep it unplugged when not using - surge protected works great here. This may save your house, and maybe $100+ in wasted "stand-by" power per year.

Auto lube shop?

[CompMD (522020)]

'In one case, a North Dakota auto lube shop owner claims that a Dell monitor he purchased caught fire and burned down his business'

An electrical device starting a fire at a place loaded with flammable materials? I loathe Dell, but this seems like it could have happened due to any number of other reasons. Unless of course the monitor was in an office far away from the shop.

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[gEvil (beta) (945888)]

You ever had a monitor with a bad flyback transformer? The sparks that some of those things make are insane. I'd easily believe that one could start a fire if you had something highly flammable located near your monitor.

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[King_TJ (85913)]

Not to mention, a "Dell" monitor is imperceptibly different in design than a monitor of same type and screen-size made by any number of other manufacturers. The LCD panels in Dell panels are made by companies like Ben-Q, for example. The supporting electronics are probably OEM'd from other vendors too.

One has to wonder if the shop would pursue a lawsuit with the same fervor if said display that caught fire was one of those Chinese off-brands like "Niko", with a far more difficult-to-contact business?

Hello.

[Fear the Clam (230933)]

I'm a Mac.
And I'm a Oh my God, I'm burning!

"Shot" for the burning

[Dareth (47614)]

I am sure PC can get a shot for the "burning".. but if he doesn't pay his monthly recurring charge, he will most likely relapse and/or get something even worse!

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[edwardpickman (965122)]

Mac:I'm a Mac
PC:And I'm a PC and I'm the hottest thing going.
Mac:Ah, PC you're on fire.
PC:Sales up 2% you bet I'm on fire.

Apple's power adapters are less than spectacular

[SuperBanana (662181)]

I'm a Mac. And I'm a Oh my God, I'm burning!

Aside from jokes about the prototype 5300 that caught fire because Sony fibbed about its specs (leading to a recall of a few dozen machines that had shipped- few hit customer hands, no "incidents"), Apple has a less than glorious reputation when it comes to power adapters.

I was on a business trip once when the black, pencil-case power supply for my G3 Lombard suddenly made a crackling noise and I smelled smoke. Turned out that the 2-prong AC connector (the

Re:Apple's power adapters are less than spectacula

[coolGuyZak (844482)]

I had a similar problem with my MacBook recently. Unfortunately, I had the bad luck of having this problem over christmas, so they directed me to tier 1 instead of tier 2. They had me run Apple system diagnostics after I reported an ozone smell coming from the brick...

But hey, it's fixed now.

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[jollyreaper (513215)]

I'm a Mac.
And I'm a Oh my God, I'm burning!

And even though he's scarred and disfigured like Freddy Krueger, 9 out of 10 people surveyed still find him more personable than that smug Mac twat.

(relax, mac jihadis. Due to vista, my next laptop is going to have to be mac. I'm just getting my snark out of my system now before I'm forced to convert.)

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[Bo0bMeIsTeR (1066964)]

Same company makes your mac laptop that made my dell laptop. :)

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[sm62704 (957197)]

Same company makes your mac laptop that made my dell laptop. :)

laptop? *shudders*

I'm your genitals.
And I'm a Oh my God, I'm on fire!

Do not play with HCF

[davidwr (791652)]

Chip vendors should disable the HCF [wikipedia.org] opcode unless either the GURU or IDIOT jumper is set.

Low price, low quality?

[KublaiKhan (522918)]

It's my understanding that walmart habitually insists on lower prices from its suppliers than they provide to others--inducing a corresponding reduction in quality of the product at times, e.g. using plastic rather than metal gears in power tools and the like. I'd not be surprised if HP cut corners for the 'Walmart edition' of its computers.

That "made specially for walmart" logo on the box is more a warning than an endorsement in my mind.

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[InvisblePinkUnicorn (1126837)]

The Walmart box probably overheated because in place of what should have been the heatsink was a block of lead.

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[snl2587 (1177409)]

Does this mean I should throw away my Wal-Mart© papier-mâché monitor? It only smokes occasionally...and it only cost me $4.88!

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[sm62704 (957197)]

e.g. using plastic rather than metal gears

Hey ya old geezer, you might enjoy an article I wrote a few years back Useful Dead Technologies [kuro5hin.org]. From the article:

Steel gears
During the 1950s when I was a young boy, machinery was made of steel. Not just machinery, but almost everything. Even my toys were made of solid steel. I learned at an early age not to drop things on my foot.

All the mechanical parts in your automobile, your washer and dryer, your furnace, etc were made of solid steel. Good strong durable stee

Actually, round shoelaces work fine with knots

[arete (170676)]

Actually, round shoelaces work fine. I agreed with you for a while, until I tried some alternative solutions. Specifically: If your flat shoelaces get all tangled up in any kind of knot that isn't a bow, they're very difficult to untangle. If your round shoelaces are tied in a bow, they will almost immediately become untied.

But if you put a square knot (two overhand loops in opposite directions) in round shoelaces, it's like magic. It holds tight and never slips. BUT they're so slippery you can still

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[I8TheWorm (645702)]

I can back that claim up having been a programmer for Wal-Mart in the past. All salaried employees in Bentonville are considered management, and are required to attend 2 Saturday management meetings a month.

Starting with the corny cheer, management meetings move on to Billy Mays styled new product demonstrations, which end with how much they got the vendor down in price and how. The large number of "hows" are how they convinced the vendor to set up shop in China. More often than not, they also include

Sued by hardware?

[noidentity (188756)]

HP & Dell Face Lawsuits From Exploding Hardware

I hate it when my computer sues me!

1960s science fiction

[sm62704 (957197)]

Any other geezers out there remember how computers in movies and TV shows from the '60s (Star Trek, The Prisoner, James Bond) would explode and burn at the least provocation? A phaser shot would cause a Star Trek computer to explode and burn, and in one Prisoner episode a computer was made to explode and catch fire simply by asking it "why?" (rather than having it give the correct answer, 42).

It seems that Dell and HP are making the 1960s science fiction a reality!

-mcgrew
(latest journal is in 5 parts)

First Read that as...

[TheKubrix (585297)]

HP & Dell Seek Patent For Exploding Hardware

Re:First Read that as...

[jollyreaper (513215)]

HP & Dell Seek Patent For Exploding Hardware

Starfleet counter-sues, claims prior art.

Two monitors burnt

[All Names Have Been (629775)]

In our office, we've had two monitors burn - one just with smoke pouring out of it, and one with nice flames coming out the top. They were both old, and it looks like dust inside was the culprit. Unplugging the monitors in both cases pretty much stopped the fire. I'm actually surprised this doesn't happen more often.

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[Richard_at_work (517087)]

Funnily enough, back when our company ran on green screen Wyse 60 terminals (sadly this side of 2000), the most likely way for one of them to die was with a very loud *bang* and a significant amount of smoke pouring out the back for some time.

Tinfoil Hat time

[HunterZ (20035)]

Works out good for Sony, whose batteries were the ones exploding in their competitors' laptops.

The RC Airplane Hobbyists found a solution...

[compumike (454538)]

I saw a video for something called a "LiPo Sack", a bad that people who use these high-density batteries can use to keep the batteries in while they're charging. Cool video of batteries exploding! [youtube.com]
--
Educational microcontroller kits for the digital generation. [nerdkits.com]

More common than you might think...

[codegen (103601)]

I have a friend who had a monitor catch fire. In his words: "There was a pop, a cloud of smoke, and a little flame inside my monitor last night." It was not an old monitor either.

I've seen monitors in auto shops....

[eth1 (94901)]

...and the are filth-captial-E! I'm sure the thick layer of dust mixed with oily residue inside the monitor had NOTHING to do with this.

I'm willing to be the other one is similar... cat or dog hair, maybe?

I can think of a couple of good ones

[Greyfox (87712)]

Fight Club:
A computer leaves a Wal-mart going 40 mph. Once home it bursts into flame, destroying the house and "Fluffy," the family dog. My job is to apply "The Formula." X, the number of cases of this happening times Y, the average lawsuit payout. If X times Y is less than the cost of a recall... we don't do one.
Which PC manufacturer did you say you work for?
A major one.

Or visual:
User switches on PC (*Click*)
Cut to stock footage of Atomic bomb exploding.

UL Listed/CE Approval?

[Radon360 (951529)]

Anyone know if the equipment in question has been tested by Underwriters Laboratories or the equivalent Canadian/European counterparts?

I'm wondering if the problem is strictly a design flaw or a manufacturing quality issue (though I would suspect a combination of both). If it's the primarily the former, then I would have to say that the testing firms that put their logo on the case just lost some credibility.

But then again, I can't say that I know anyone that specifically looks for the UL/CE/CSA logo on the box before they purchase something that they plug into their wall nowadays.

Where's the UL

[PPH (736903)]

Where's the UL [ul.com] while all this is going on? Or the NFPA [nfpa.org]?

Its possible that these incidents are statistically insignificant given the number of products sold that don't explode. Or there would be new rules proposed in the codes to address these problems. These folks just live for writing new rules. In fact, there are some pretty strict rules covering electrical installations in hazardous locations like gas stations. Its just that no construction code can keep someone from running an extension cord and plugging in a PC around gas fumes.

Coming soon to a cheap piece of hardware near you!

[Whuffo (1043790)]

I've seen a desktop PC or two ignite - not just smoke, but a nice flamey burnout. The source of the problem in every one I've inspected was an electrolytic capacitor failure. Those components are under a lot of stress when they're used in switch-mode power circuits - such as the main power supply or the CPU voltage regulator.

Fortunately, these fires self-extinguish very quickly when you disconnect the power - if your PC (or whatever random piece of tech) starts smoking / burning, pull the plug. These failures are only really dangerous in unattended machines - then this failure can and does result in a fire.

Those little capacitors are relatively expensive, and manufacturers who are doing everything they can to shave costs discover they can replace the low-ESR computer grade electrolytics with cheap aluminum electrolytics - and then take it another step by sourcing the cheapest cheap caps they can buy. They manufactures know that this choice will result in a much shorter life for the equipment but those failures will occur after the warranty has expired so it's OK with them.

Remember this next time you buy yet another power supply for your computer. It could have lasted 10 or more years, but the manufacturer saved a couple of bucks on the components so it died after a year or two. A fire caused by these cheap parts is actually fairly rare - less than one in a thousand machines (probably much less).

The way to eliminate the majority of these fires? The manufacturers should spend the money it takes to use the right components - capacitors designed and rated for high temperature / switch-mode operation. That would also make power supplies last the life of the machine, slightly reduce power consumption, etc. But as long as consumers insist on the lowest price for products the manufactures will continue to give them what they are asking for.

Imagine a shelf at the computer parts store: there's two different 400 watt PC power supplies for sale. One sells for $40 and the one next to it speaks of high quality parts and long lifetime and sells for $60. Which one do you think most consumers would buy?

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[Pojut (1027544)]

The Kombucha Mushroom People?

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[DeeQ (1194763)]

You used the wrong like imo. Its more like your driving along and crash into a pole and die because the seat belt failed and came undone smashing your face into the windshield. Faulty PSU or any other hardware that might have caused this SHOULD be held responsible for their low quality. Plus you must remember we live in a world where coffee cups say warning contents might be hot.

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[sm62704 (957197)]

This is kind of like sueing a car company for being seriously injured when you crashed into the pole.

No, it's like suing Ford when your ignition system catches fire and burns your house down while parked in your garage. In fact, this happened to Ford; a design defect in the ignition actually did burn some houses down, and Ford settled without a suit and recalled the rest of the product; going to trial when you are at fault is stupid. And if your merchandise catches fire without its owner doing anything stu

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[jollyreaper (513215)]

Only if it is poorly designed and/or built. They've been doing electrical engineering for over a hundred years and there is no excuse for ANY appliance to catch fire.

I bet the only product Dell could manufacture that wouldn't catch fire is a holocaust cloak. Of course, if we only had a wheelbarrow, we'd really have something.

Yup. I'm repeatedy amazed ...

[Bearpaw (13080)]

I'm repeatedly amazed at how successful corporate media et al have been in demonizing the whole idea of lawsuits, especially "consumers" suing corporations. I wonder if some media-savvy gang member got the idea for the "Stop Snitchin'" campaign from this.

I suppose they were both inspired by the various forms of the "code of silence" encouraged by other criminal elements in society.

The parallels are rather striking.

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[sm62704 (957197)]

What has me scratching my head is the recent bankrupcy "reform" that one of my Senators voted for (Obama, Senate campaign bankrolled by bankers) and how the (corporate owned) media has everyone thinking that awful law is a good thing.

All my life (I'm 55) if you declared bankrupcy you got to keep your primary residence and one automobile. Now they can leave you homeless and without transportation, and people think this is a GOOD thing.

The corporate owned media has us thinking that bankrupcy is primarily caus