Jack Thompson Claiming Games Industry in Collusion with DoD

mytrip brings us a Wired blog about Jack Thompson's recent press release, which claims an "unholy alliance" exists between the gaming industry and the U.S. Department of Defense. Game Politics also has a discussion of Thompson's main points. From Wired: "Jim Blank, the head of the modeling and simulation division of the U.S. Joint Forces Command, says that commercial games don't meet the demand of the military, adding, 'first-person shooter games really don't apply in this environment.' Blank's point is that game-like simulations are a valuable tool for training soldiers in situations that would be too expensive to simulate in reality."

and?

[spiritraveller (641174)]

Yes, they use video games to train. Yes, they use video games to market to recruits. Yes, they are in the business of war.

Somehow adding video games to the mix makes it more unholy than it already was?

Whatever. Will someone just shoot this guy already?

Re:and?

[TitusC3v5 (608284)]

Whatever. Will someone just shoot this guy already?

Don't be alarmed, everyone. That's just the video games talking.

Re:and?

[Seumas (6865)]

By Thompson's logic, cars are training simulators for driving tanks and APVs and and RISK is a training simulator for conquering and destroying to build a fascist global empire.

Why is this guy still allowed to tie up the media and court system? Why isn't he in jail or disbarred or institutionalized? He is the Jerry Falwell of videogames and at least Falwell finally had the decency to fucking die.

Re:and?

[Derosian (943622)]

A madman is a madman until someone kills him and turns him into a Martyr.

Re:

[macdaddy357 (582412)]

This conspiracy is much bigger than he knows. It's not just the DOD. The gaming industry is also in cahoots with The Council on Foreign Relations, The Trilateral Commission, The Order of the Illuminati, the Masons, The UN Security Council, Israeli intelligence, Vladimir Putin, The Fnords, Martians and organized crime. It's a monster like the Hydra!! OH NOES!

Jack Thompson will never take this down alone. It's a shame Ronald Reagan is gone. There is nothing he couldn't do.

Re:

[creimer (824291)]

This is similar to the movies rating system: violence and gore is A-OK, but sex and drugs is NOT-OK. That's why the Friday the 13th series was so successful as anyone who does sex and drugs dies a violent, gory death.

Re:and?

[thewiz (24994)]

I forget the exact name, but it's one of the cognitive fallacies.

Stupidity?

Re:and?

[by Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps something more like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias [wikipedia.org]

Re:and?

[Fmuctohekerr (841734)]

I agree with you that no one is very good at following whichever "word" they consider to be from "God," however they define it.

But let's be accurate:

• The early Israelite leaders (Moses, Joshua, David, ect) clearly interpreted "thou shall not kill" to specificaly mean murder. Killing first born Egyptians, warfare, ect., all OK to them. David on the other hand repented for "killing" a fellow soldier over a hot chick. So there is a difference in Judaism.
• Islam (the Qur'an) has the concept of Jihad, and spells out rules for warfare (not in a holy month, ect). 'Nuff said.
• Christ was a complete pacifist in every way. "Turn the other cheek" and "he who seeks to save his life will lose it" spell out a very clear message of non-violence, even for self-defense. I don't think Bush has read this part of the bible. This does not apply to God, however, He gives and takes as He pleases.
• Buddhism, Jainism, Hinduism Dharma all consider non-violence to be a virtue. A primary virtue, in fact. I'm not sure elevating the concept to "sin" or "commandment" is quite accurate. I'll leave that question to someone who knows more than I do.

Obviously I'm down with JC. Just a disclaimer. I am biased.

But my point is that hypocrisy is harder to nail down in some religions than in others. Christianity, IMHO, makes glaring hypocrites of us all in short order. Christ set the bar ridiculously high. As was His point.

Sorry for the appologetics on the nerd site.

On topic, I'm all for video games depicting violence. I play FPS with my nephew all the time. Being human and intelligent requires some basic discernment, after all. Thompson should probably keep his mouth shut and not claim to represent "values" or any religion whatsoever, if he does.

Re:

[rhakka (224319)]

Interpretations aside, "Thou shalt not kill" is unambiguous. It is only made ambiguous by people who need to justify killing. As a commandment, in the Judeo-Christian-Muslim tradition, it is present in all 3 religions.

How side-stepping that is justified in all 3 religions is of no interest to me. More, how hypocrisy, contradiction, and cognitive dissonance of all varieties and intensities are rationalized also doesn't interest me... well, honestly, they both interest me a great deal as a matter of curio

Re:and?

[Courageous (228506)]

I mean really! You can't really "interpret" thou shalt not kill... that's unambiguous, entirely unambiguous.

Well. I'm an atheist. And care very little. Be that as it may, why is it you are so sure? "Kill" is a modern word. And an English word. Surely you don't think that they were speaking English back then, right? The Bible wasn't written in English. That part was... what?... Aramaic? Old Hebrew? What was the original word used, and what were its connotations? And why are you so sure that the English word "kill" is a precise and exact carry over of all the connotations of the original word used? This needs some splainin'.

C//

Re:and?

[Dragonslicer (991472)]

My Chumash translates tir'tzeach as "murder". My Hebrew-English dictionary translates "kill" as harag or hemit. My guess would be that "kill" is the incorrect translation.

Re:

[Courageous (228506)]

Wycliffe's translation, which was done into the Middle English in the 14th century, is one of the oldest known English bibles. It uses the Middle English word "sle," which as you would correctly suppose is indeed a precursor to the modern English word "slay". In modern English, "slay" is somewhat archaic, but has more of a connotation towards murder, than not. I would say that are likely correct. Many early English works of the Bible (including Wycliffe's) were not translated from the original written langu

Re:

[rhakka (224319)]

Murder, Killing, Slaying... there isn't any real difference in any of those words in any case. Only whether the Murder, Killing, or Slaying of someone is justified or not. If you kill someone, it's murder. Maybe not legally, maybe you could call it justified in some cases, but we're not talking about a court of law, we're talking about a higher moral power here. Hell, courts of law weren't very lawful when this stuff was written in the first place. You don't take a lawyer to "heaven" with you to argue

Re:

[Fmuctohekerr (841734)]

Again, I agree with you. And I think that your point is a key message in Christianity. Christ never justified killing, in any circumstance. So I think you two read that commandment the same way.

But, you can't simply wave your hand and make the issue of interpretation go away. Did God mean "thou shall not kill ANYTHING" or "thou shall not kill HUMANS"? You could make the case that eating meat is killing a sentient lifeform and therefore breaks the commandment. Aside from other "commandments" (not the 10) t

unambiguous god of war

[Scrameustache (459504)]

Interpretations aside, "Thou shalt not kill" is unambiguous.

Deuteronomy 20:10-15 [biblegateway.com]

10 When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. 11 If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. 12 If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. 13 When the LORD your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. 14 As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder f

Re:

[Sigma 7 (266129)]

Christ was a complete pacifist in every way.

Not when he saw the moneychangers within the Temple in the week before his crucifixion.

Of course it is. We got ninjas and pirates too...

[by Anonymous Coward]

...and we're coming for you, Jack. We're all out to get YOU, Jack. Boo!

Mr. Thompson, should I interpret it in this way...

[Opportunist (166417)]

...that you, since you have been attacking computer games as the spawn of evil itself for quite some time now, want to say that the DOD and thus the United States of America is bad and threatening our children, should your elaboration be interpreted in this way, yes?

Just for the record, of course...

Re:Mr. Thompson, should I interpret it in this way

[innerweb (721995)]

I am pretty sure that was meant to be funny, but the truth of what is really being said is startling.

He is anti-american, like so many other neo-cons. The reason they want to change so many things of such consequence is they do not like the US. They want a new country with their rules in place. Something much more akin to the fundamentalist Muslim countries or Mussolini's government. A place where their ideals and beliefs reign supreme without that bothersome interruption from people who would think or believe differently.

I guess the scary part for me is that at one time, when I started learning about the neo-cons, I agreed with much of what I had learned. It was not until much later when I started seeing through the lies that I really got a grasp on what they stand for. It almost lends plausibility to those who believe they are trying to create a new world order. Because it sure seems like they are.

InnerWeb

Re:

[Connie_Lingus (317691)]

i guess its a lot easier to throw around a term like "neo-con" that dumbly lumps people into a group then to actually parse each individuals perspective in the group as to their beliefs.

please don't think that i am a "neo-con", or defending that particular POV. i guess in this current cycle of election-mania i felt the need to vent about the oversimplification of political rhetoric that bombards us daily from the news outlets.

Re:

[nuzak (959558)]

i guess its a lot easier to throw around a term like "neo-con" that dumbly lumps people into a group then to actually parse each individuals perspective in the group as to their beliefs.

We tried that. And they said "those liberals can't agree on anything."

Re:

[Opportunist (166417)]

What's startling is that people confuse neo-con thinking with free market. neo-conservativism is (when looking at it from a purely economic point of view) anything BUT free market. It's anti free market and anti free speech.

About as un-american as I could imagine, to be blunt.

Re:

[Artifakt (700173)]

To really Godwin a thread takes an inappropriate comparison. Generally, it's hyperbole that indicates a Godwin - i.e. Jimmy pulls the wings off of flies, and somebody posts "He'll grow up just like Hitler. One day it will be six million flies!". So it's actually hard to Godwin this thread.
It's a fair comparison, not hyperbole at all, to take what some of the founding members of the neo-conservative movement have said, and the fact that some politicians have claimed to be inspire

And if you play really well, you get abducted...

[NeverVotedBush (1041088)]

The DoD is just copying what the aliens already did. I heard that if you do really well in the alien video game, it sends a signal out and pretty soon a talking spaceship lands to take you away to fight evil aliens.

See, the game is just a simulation of the real fight and the aliens need to find someone to save them. If you are the best, they come get you to go fight their war using the fabled "Death Blossom" maneuver.

(Not to be confused with the fabled "Turd Blossom" maneuver used many times over the last seven years by the Bush administration.)

Re:And if you play really well, you get abducted..

[Nicholas Burns (992143)]

The Last Starfighter. I love that movie.

Have a pretty white jacket, long arms.

[headkase (533448)]

Hasn't he been disbarred yet? Seriously if it was you or I going on like this month after month we'd probably at least get a month commited for evaluation. He's got something wrong with him and instead of looking inward to see what it is he projects it outward and thinks everyone needs to be saved from the demons that plague him.

Re:Have a pretty white jacket, long arms.

[Opportunist (166417)]

Freedom of speech and all that. Yes, I hate it as much as anyone that this guy can spew his drivel and waste valuable oxygen by continuous breathing and add to the carbon dioxide problem that way, but he still has the right to keep talking.

I think the 1st is more important than silencing him. He ain't that important.

It's the gamers! The gamers and the DOD!

[The Ultimate Fartkno (756456)]

And the QUEERS! They're in it with the aliens! Do you know what they're doing to the SOIL?

AACK! JEWS! JEWS AND KOOPA TROOPERS!

RUUUUNNNNN!

Seriously. How has this man not been clubbed like a seal yet?

Re:

[Opportunist (166417)]

Last time I checked it was still illegal for some reason. And so far nobody has deemed him important enough to do time for killing him.

Re:It's the gamers! The gamers and the DOD!

[fastest fascist (1086001)]

But his whole thesis is that video games make people violent, and obviously he's pissed off a lot of said video gamers. How is he still alive?

Re:

[Dogtanian (588974)]

They're still running around trying to locate the BFG first?

No, no, The BFG [wordpress.com] wouldn't harm a fly. It's the maneating giants that you need if you want to get Jack Thompson.

Though personally, I'd have thought it easier just to get some sort of big fucking gun than to get a fictitious character from a Roald Dahl children's story to do the dirty work.. :)

conflict of interest

[xzvf (924443)]

What will the extreme left wing, anti-war, anti-military establishment, conspiracy theory maniacs that are pro-pornography, pro-simulated violence in video games do? DoD using video games with subliminal messages to create new breed of professional military recruits and only Jack Thompson, evil video game critic to stand in the way. It's like being a Republican and realizing the only candidate that believes in what he's saying is Ron Paul. Guess the Democrats got that with Kusinich (sic). They both kind of remind me of Ross Perot, but I ramble....

Parsimony...

[RyanFenton (230700)]

Really, folks - which is a simpler explanation for these graphs:

Violent crime rate [usdoj.gov]

Video game sales [blognewschannel.com]

That (presumeably violent) video game use correlates with a massive secret drive towards violence, that is somehow counterbalanced in the overall violent crime rate, or that this (now) extremely common form of entertainment is at worst, on average, a similar factor in people's lives as movies or books?

True, the ever-shifting and politically influenced definition of violent crime may have shifted definition over the years too, but I highly doubt any theories on that line would be able to mask the accusations Thomson makes about the use of video games in society.

In order to match Thomson's account to reality in any way, you'd have to start making up any number of wild inventions to force the facts into place... kind of like what he's doing here.

Ryan Fenton

Decline in Violence may be linked to unleaded gas

[spineboy (22918)]

Small amounts of lead can stimulate people to behave in a more violent way. The majority of the decrease occurred in the early 1990's - roughly the age when when kids who were no longer exposed to leaded gas were in their teenage years. The vast majority of violent crimes are committed by men, aged from 13 to 40. So once the unexposed kids grew up, they diluted the violence pool so to speak, and have been lowering the rate ever since.

So we've got old and false info? That it?

[Steeltalon (734391)]

Two points: First, War as glamorous and consequence free... Wow, I don't think that I ever heard about anything like that in movies that I've watched for my entire life and many of the books that I've read. Seriously, didn't this moron ever watch Patton? Secondly, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that the VT shooter was established to have not been a gamer. Granted, Fox News (never one to let the facts get in the way of their "reporting") opted to have him on right after the shooting, before any facts had been established, so that he could talk about how games were responsible for it. As I recall, however, the shooter's roommates said that they'd never seen him play any games. I really wish that the main stream media would out this guy publicly.

Don't Give Him Publicity

[Killer Eye (3711)]

Jack Thompson is someone best ignored. I think it is better to stop making headlines every time he goes off his rocker, and let him not be heard, than to give him free publicity for his stunts.

WTF?

[Black Parrot (19622)]

WTF is a "correlation" between the DoD and the game industry?

This guy must have a secretary, because he's obviously too stupid to type his own editorials.

The only news here is that anyone bothers to publish his rants.

Re:

[snl2587 (1177409)]

WTF is a "correlation" between the DoD and the game industry?

As the game industry becomes increasingly refined, the DoD becomes more incompetant?

Joke intended, humorless mods...

Madness?

[ichigo 2.0 (900288)]

This. Is. JACK THOMPSON!

Why are we still talking about Jack Thompson?

[SlappyBastard (961143)]

Isn't there supposed to be a point where these people disappear from the conversation after their actions prove they're not relevant?

Its the Technoology Stupid

[Tiger4 (840741)]

DOD makes extensive use of modeling and simulation. That is clearly no secret. The difference between commercial gaming and useful training simulations is the entertainment aspect, as the article states. Real Life, as we all know, is not Entertaining when it comes to Real Work. Actually carrying a weighted field pack, up and down hills, through brush, up stairs, wading streams, drop to the ground, run and roll for cover, etc. all take effort, and sweat, and physical coordination. See Kinesthetic learning [wikipedia.org] It might be exciting (especially when the other guy is shooting at you), fulfilling, and "fun" in an intellectual way, but not entertaining.

Most importantly, Video games don't do that with any accuracy at all. They can show you what it looks like, they can help you learn the approximate timing, they can maybe remind you to keep looking around for more bad guys and not just focus on the one in front of you. But that is all. At best it shortens the training time needed in the real world training course, much like a football coach has a "chalk talk" in a classroom before you suit up and take the field. Worse, too much application of simulation can induce negative training, in short, teaching them to do the wrong thing in order to win the game.

As for the Industry taking cues from the DOD, I wish they would. For starters the Physics models used in gaming are a joke and have been for years. If police and soldiers and criminals in real life could run like they do in games, shootouts would look like the Superhero Olympics. Every car chase would be the Indy 500 Cross Country Demolition Derby. If the aliens ever show up, they'd have good reason to want humans stomped out, we'd be too dammed dangerous! No, Game designers might get ideas from military scenarios (Call to Duty 1 - N anyone?), but they aren't using real situations. And if anyone could even vaguely show the FPS games were imprinting "Go Army" on any brains, major heads would roll. The fact the school shooters were using the games just shows how "out of it" they were. They didn't know the games weren't useful or accurate for training, so they used them, which somehow means the games were responsible after all.

Thompson is just taking out some ire on innocent bystanders for doing something he already hates. Yet another example of a political control freak.

Jack's a bit slow

[Quila (201335)]

It apparently took him years to realize that America's Army is out.

Wait

[MerrickStar (981213)]

If he's speaking out against the Department of Defense, a branch of the government, doesn't that mean he's in league with the terrorists?

Could it be, that one of the most complained about things on /. could take care of an other?

The Patriot Act gets Thompson tossed in Guantanamo for an unspecified period, then there's one less problem to worry about.

Probably too good to be true, but we could dream.

He's got it the wrong way round

[mormop (415983)]

If Call of Duty taught me anything (which I doubt), it'd be that war a crap thing to be caught up in as death can come at any time from someone you hadn't noticed hiding in a bush or a doorway. This random "died from being in wrong place at the wrong time" with no respawn is probably more likely to convince people of the benefits of couch-potatodom than it is to get them to sign up.

At least after being killed on the screen you can respawn a few times before crossing the floor to the fridge to extract another beer while you comtemplate the fact that you earn more sitting in your office than a soldier does in Iraq without having to put up with being shot at. On the other hand, if you are still at school and can't tell the difference between a game and reality you're more than likely better off in the army as they're probably getting pissed with soldiers who go "off message" on their blogs.

 

Don't worry about the military and video games...

[RogueyWon (735973)]

No no no. See, when you really need to worry is when you find the military in collusion with shower curtain manufacturers. That never ends well (even if there is cake).

Parental Insanity

[Rai (524476)]

Keep in mind, Jack started this anti-game crusade after he discovered his son was playing them. So like any batshit crazy parent void of reason, instead of actually acting like a sensible parent and monitoring his child's activities, he's attacking the whole industry like a mother grizzly bear separated from her cubs. I guess he thinks it's easier to sink the video game industry than teach his kid the difference between right and wrong, good and evil, fantasy and reality...actually, I'm not so sure he can tell the difference between those last two. Here's hoping somebody adds a "Jack Thompson's Grave" level to Dance Dance Revolution until we have the real thing to get down on.

Re:

[Himring (646324)]

No, he's saying that the military using video games to train in the act of killing people is very bad. He seems to miss the point that actually killing people after the training is sorta worse.

Why don't this protest real killing instead of fake killing? I'd have far more respect for him.

This just in: child sued by Thompson for holding up finger and going, "bang!"....

Re:WTF?

[0racle (667029)]

Yvan eht nioj

Re:

[kqc7011 (525426)]

It's the fluoride!