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Online Sex Offender Database Leads To Murder?

Posted by Zonk on Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:41 AM
from the just-think-what-open-government-will-lead-to dept.
nem75 writes "The LA Times reports on the story of Michael A. Dodele, a convicted rapist, found murdered in a Lakeport trailer park. He moved there after having been released from prison just 35 days before. A 29-year-old construction worker has been arrested in the attack, and explained that he killed Dodele to protect his son from child molestation. He found out on the internet about Dodele being a sex offender, via the 'Megan's Law' database. The public entry for Dodele in the database was wrong — though he was found guilty of committing crimes against adult women he was not a child molester. Dodele's entry in Megan's Law DB has been removed." Update: 12/11 15:51 GMT by Z : Moved link to non-reg article.
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  • TFA (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 11 2007, @10:47AM (#21656143)
    Megan's Law listing may have led to slaying
    Lake County Sheriff
    Ivan Garcia Oliver 29, has pleaded not guilty to charges of first-degree murder, burglary and elder abuse.
    Lake County prosecutors have investigated the possibility that information in the Internet database might have been the motive for the killing of a convicted sex offender.
    By Maria L. La Ganga, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
    December 10, 2007
    LAKEPORT, CALIF. -- Convicted rapist Michael A. Dodele had been free just 35 days when sheriff's deputies found him dead last month in his aging, tan mobile home, his chest and left side punctured with stab wounds.

    Officers quickly arrested Dodele's neighbor, 29-year-old construction worker Ivan Garcia Oliver, who made "incriminating comments, essentially admitting to his attacking Dodele," the Lake County Sheriff's Department said in a statement.

    Prosecutors said they have investigated the possibility that the slaying of Dodele, 67, stemmed from his having been listed on the state's Megan's Law database of sex offenders. If so, his death may be the first in the state to result from such a listing, experts said.

    Oliver pleaded not guilty to charges of first-degree murder, burglary and elder abuse when he was arraigned Nov. 30.

    In a jailhouse interview Wednesday night, Oliver said he has a son who was molested in the past, and he took action to protect the child.

    "Society may see the action I took as unacceptable in the eyes of 'normal' people," Oliver said. "I felt that by not taking evasive action as a father in the right direction, I might as well have taken my child to some swamp filled with alligators and had them tear him to pieces. It's no different."

    Although Oliver did not say he killed Dodele, he said that "any father in my position, with moral, home, family values, wouldn't have done any different. At the end of the day, what are we as parents? Protectors, caregivers, nurturers."

    In fact, Dodele was not a child molester. But a listing on the Megan's Law website could have left Oliver with the impression that he had abused children because of the way it was written.

    Although Dodele's listing has been taken down since his death, a spokesman for the state attorney general said the site described the man's offenses as "rape by force" and "oral copulation with a person under 14 or by force."

    "He was convicted of other bad things, but nothing involving a minor," said Richard F. Hinchcliff, chief deputy district attorney for Lake County. But "it would be easy to understand why someone might think so looking at the website."

    Dodele's crimes involved sexual assaults on adult women, records show.

    A neighbor at the Western Hills Resort & Trailer Park, a tattered collection of mobile homes and bungalows, said that two days before the killing, Oliver "told every house" in the park that he'd found Dodele listed on the website of convicted sexual offenders and was uncomfortable living near him.

    "He looked it up on the computer . . . ," the neighbor said. "He said [Dodele] can't be around here."

    The park resident requested anonymity because of a fear of reprisal, but reported Oliver's visit and statements to sheriff's deputies after the slaying. "A lot of people told them" about Oliver's claims, the person said.

    Officials in Lake County -- a patchwork of wealth and poverty, vineyards and mobile home parks just north of Napa Valley -- would not offer a motive for the killing.

    Hinchcliff acknowledged, however, that one possible motive investigated by the district attorney's office was that Oliver knew Dodele was on the Megan's Law list and did not want him as a neighbor.

    According to court documents, Dodele committed his first offenses at age 15 and spent the last two decades either in prison or at Atascadero State Hospital receiving treatment.

    His last attack was the 1987 knife-point rape of a 37-year-old woman on a Sonoma County beach.

    Those were the charges
  • Hmmm (Score:5, Insightful)

    by sm62704 (957197) on Tuesday December 11 2007, @10:48AM (#21656153) Journal
    I'm conflicted. On the one hand I'm against these databases; once you've served your time you should be a free man in every way.

    On the other hand, the responsiblity for the murder is solely on th eman who committed the murder. Ironically one of the victims of this murder is the very child the murderer was trying to protect, who will grow up without a father.

    On the third hand*, maybe the kid's better off without a violent dumshit like that around.

    -mcgrew [slashdot.org]

    *The Mote in God's Eye, Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle
    • by redelm (54142) on Tuesday December 11 2007, @11:22AM (#21656785) Homepage
      What is the matter with the DB? It merely compiles and retrieves data that is public anyways. Why rely on someone with a long memory? I do not understand why _all_ criminal convictions (and why not misdemenors) are not in publicly accessible DBs. Court is and must be public. Not "private".


      People may well be prejudiced. However stupid, that is their right except where limited by law. A bigger problem is differential privacy, where some people can hide things and others cannot. A boss might be less inclined to go after a gay employee if his own divorces and DUIs were equally public. Likewise for the cop.

      • Re:Hmmm (Score:5, Insightful)

        by CreatureComfort (741652) * on Tuesday December 11 2007, @11:30AM (#21656935)

        From the article:

        Oliver is being held without bail, a police statement said, because he was convicted of assault with a deadly weapon in San Diego and was on parole when Dodele was killed.
        Gee, it sure seems like the guy convicted of assault with a deadly weapon had a much higher recidivism rate. Not to mention that the guy he killed never molested a child, or a male. Maybe we should just have an offender registry that lists everyone who has ever been convicted of any crime? After all, maybe you don't want to buy that house on the same block as the lady who has received 5 speeding tickets... your kids wouldn't be safe in the front yard. After all speeders are notoriously recidivist, and the cause of many highway fatalities.

            • Re:Hmmm (Score:5, Interesting)

              by Rycross (836649) on Tuesday December 11 2007, @11:36AM (#21657061)

              You do know that MOST crimes are committed by repeat offenders right?

              Cite please.

              Reform may be one way to try and make someone not re-offend, but for sexual predators, this is almost-never possible.

              Cite please.

  • Megan's Law FTW (Score:5, Insightful)

    by spungo (729241) on Tuesday December 11 2007, @10:51AM (#21656213)
    Another victory for hysterical knee-jerk legislation.
  • Society of Fear (Score:5, Insightful)

    by eln (21727) on Tuesday December 11 2007, @10:51AM (#21656215) Homepage
    The media and the government have worked for the past few decades to make sure that everyone lives in fear of everything all the time. These sex offender databases are part of that. There have been sexual predators for as long as there have been people. Attacks have always been relatively rare, and most people will never be victimized. However, you put these lists and databases out there, people see that a sex offender lives near them, and they freak out.

    We are constantly bombarded with reports of what we should be afraid of this week ("find out about the new threat that could kill your children, tonight on 9 news at 10!"). We have also been conditioned through the use of these databases and sensationalist segments like "To Catch a Predator" to believe that everyone ever convicted (or even accused) of a sex crime of any kind is out to get our children. Given all this, it's not at all surprising that someone would snap and do something like this.
    • Re:Society of Fear (Score:5, Insightful)

      by superwiz (655733) on Tuesday December 11 2007, @11:03AM (#21656449) Journal
      A good percentage of the people in that database are "criminals" who committed the statutory rape of having sex while in high school (because the other person was under age). We can laugh it off, but we are talking about these people having to register their entire life for what was essentially an innocent act. The problem here is not computers. It's the legal system. If someone is a threat to society so much so that they cannot live a free person, they must not be allowed out of a prison or hospital. And innocent behavior should not be a crime.
      • Re:Society of Fear (Score:5, Interesting)

        by 0100010001010011 (652467) on Tuesday December 11 2007, @11:38AM (#21657097)
        Changing in public and urination in public have to register too.

        I play rugby, if anyone has been to a Rugby game or been around the Rugby community, you may notice that we're pretty improvisional about most things. Often pitches are just some open field with some 2x4 uprights, etc. Never have I seen a locker room and bathrooms are usually port-a-potties.

        Prior to a 7s tournament (7 vs 7 for 7 minute halves, large tournaments have easily 500 people) someone was changing near the pitch and then kneeled down and peed on a tree.

        Cop who obviously didn't notice the 499 other people doing this, decided to make an example out of this guy. He now has to register on the list.

        Guy was going to be a elementary school teacher (and had just graduated). Although I guess it's better than being dead, right?

        FEAR EVERYTHING AMERICA. THINK OF THE CHILDREN. (on the other hand I grew up around it, both my parents played and I don't think I could see much of anything that doesn't shock me and if I don't like it, I don't sit and stare and cry foul, I turn away.)
        • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 11 2007, @12:37PM (#21658321)

          Changing in public and urination in public have to register too.

          As well they should. Unfortunately, the law does not go far enough to protect the children. Did you know that, at this very moment, there are hundreds of millions of people in the US currently in possession of genitalia that could be used to commit any number of sex offenses? These people are allowed to walk around in public right next to children while carrying concealed genitalia. It is time to put a stop to this and make sure that all parents are aware of the threat that these sickos pose to our children.

        • Re:Society of Fear (Score:5, Insightful)

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 11 2007, @11:54AM (#21657439)
          God also states that you should never touch the skin of a pig. (lev 11:7-8), so make sure you avoid any football games.

          Leviticus 25:44 allows you to own slaves, provided they are from neighboring nations.

          You may also sell your daughter into slavery (exodus 21:7).

          There are dozens more, its a fun read.

          Overall, if you want to live by the laws in the bible, thats fine. But you are not allowed to pick and choose the ones that you like and ignore the rest.

          Face it, you are more than likely guilty of dozens of its laws and thus subject to death by stoning.

          Have a nice day.
    • Re:Society of Fear (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Pharmboy (216950) on Tuesday December 11 2007, @11:19AM (#21656737) Journal
      Try and speak out "for" the rights of those accused and/or convinced of child molestation. Go ahead and do it in a more public forum, and watch yourself get lynched. "Think of the children" trumps all common sense.

      The irrational fear of this is beyond anything I have ever seen. I hear otherwise normal, educated people say that anyone accused should get the death penalty, or "if they get raped in prison, they deserve it. I hope they die of AIDS" and the like. The total hatred and desire for the accused to suffer a horrible death is pretty frightening in itself.

      Right now in America, if you tried to pass a law that says that everyone 'ACCUSED' of sex crimes against children gets lethal injection without a trial, and put it up to a general vote, it would pass. Thank god we aren't a true democracy.
    • Re:Society of Fear (Score:5, Insightful)

      by sm62704 (957197) on Tuesday December 11 2007, @11:21AM (#21656781) Journal
      What's ironic is that the things the media and government are scaring people with are things that, as you say, are unlikely to ever happen to you, while real danger is unregarded.

      Take terrorism, for example. More Americans died fighting in Iraq than died on 9-11. Fewer than 3,000 people have died this entire century on American soil from terrorism, while half a million Americans die from cancer every year, another half million from heart attacks. The terrorists I'm more scared of are the terrorists who run the fast food and tobacco companies!

      Meanwhile 40,000 Americans die on the highways every year. I'd like to see some of that Homeland Security money go to some guardrails - it would actually save some lives rather than being a political circus.

      But guardrails don't give government officials more power.

      -mcgrew [slashdot.org]
  • by VirusEqualsVeryYes (981719) on Tuesday December 11 2007, @10:53AM (#21656255)
    Imagine the outrage and press if the database hadn't gotten the offender's entry wrong.

    Oh, right. There wouldn't be any.

    In my opinion, that's sick. Because of a government agency's screwup, it's suddenly not A-OK to murder a released convict? If the man actually HAD been a child molester, you would never have heard of this story. Everyone would have shrugged it off. Eh, the murderer was twisted, but at least he was protecting his kid. The murdered guy was a sick child molester, so he deserved it anyway, right?

    The sex offender list isn't any more wrong because of this. The murder isn't any more wrong because of the list's screwup (and the victim isn't any less of a sick person because of it). All this is is just another example why a sex offender list is stupid and unconstitutional -- it's just that it wouldn't be noticed if somebody hadn't screwed up.
    • by wattrlz (1162603) on Tuesday December 11 2007, @11:16AM (#21656701)

      ... it's just that it wouldn't be noticed if somebody hadn't screwed up.
      Mr. Google and I would have to disagree...
      • http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/04/17/national/main1501271.shtml
      • http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002456680_sexoffender30m.html
      • http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/14562826/detail.html
    • by sm62704 (957197) on Tuesday December 11 2007, @11:33AM (#21656981) Journal
      A Rabbi, a Priest, and a lawyer are on the Titanic having a lively discussion about God and the law when the boat hits an iceberg and starts sinking.

      "Save the children!" the Rabbi exclaims.

      "FUCK the children, the lawyer snarls.

      "No time for that!" says the priest

      -mcgrew [slashdot.org]
  • by Mostly a lurker (634878) on Tuesday December 11 2007, @10:54AM (#21656259)
    Well, at least they have removed his erroneous entry from the database. Hopefully, that will ensure that he is not murdered twice.
  • by Ubergrendle (531719) on Tuesday December 11 2007, @10:58AM (#21656339) Homepage Journal
    Its the old justice vs vengence conflict all over again. Theoretically after their time in the penal system a convict has paid their debt to society, and has been their slate wiped clean. The public tracking websites appeal to a mob-mentality, fear based culture that suggests criminals can't reform, that you're at risk at all times, and that someone is out to get you and your family. Yes a number of child molesters (and other criminals) re-offend upon being released from prison. The question should be whether public tracking databases reduce this likelihood.

    My personal opinion is 'no', in fact they exacerbate the problem by limiting convicts' abilities to reintegrate into society. Once branded with the scarlet letter, they live out their Les Miserables' existence being pursued by law enforcement and vigilantes for the rest of their days.

    Child molesters are the boogeymen of the 2000s, just like drug lords were of the 1980s and 90s, gangs of the 60s and 70s, and communists of the 1950s. They pose a societal threat, but not somuch that you need to legislate around their existence and vastly expand policing powers beyond what already exists.
  • by misanthrope101 (253915) on Tuesday December 11 2007, @11:00AM (#21656387)
    can anyone give a reason why ALL people convicted of ANYTHING aren't in a database? Since privacy is no longer important when it has to compete with safety on any level, why give it even a token protection? I'm all for protecting children from child molesters, but don't you also have a "right" to know if a convicted car thief lives in the neighborhood? Why can't you look up your new neighbor and find out that he shoplifted a package of underwear 12 years ago? Don't you have a right to sleep soundly at night? Why do we need to know that a child molester lives in the area, but not a convicted murderer? How about drug offenses? Shouldn't we just put all criminal records online? Isn't public safety more important than the "privacy" of criminals?
  • by RAMMS+EIN (578166) on Tuesday December 11 2007, @11:12AM (#21656633) Homepage Journal
    And this, ladies and gentlemen, geeks and trolls, bots and overlords, is why privacy is important.

    At least, that was my first thought. Then I realized that it doesn't have too much to do with privacy per se. After all, it doesn't matter if the data about the victim of the murder were accurate. It could have been entirely made up. Then, it's not really about privacy anymore, but about what people write about others, and how people react to that.

    I recently moved into a new city. It would be easy for someone to tell the people in my new neigborhood that I am a child molester. If there is a respectable-looking website for posting this kind of information (and I'm sure there is), they could put a post up there for extra credibility. Doing so would be wrong, because I am not a child molester (of course, that's just me saying that, but just accept it for the sake of argument).

    Then, someone might read the aforementioned post and conclude that I am, in fact, a child molester. That would be wrong, because they would have arrived at that conclusion by blindly believing what was written about me, without checking the facts. If they had checked the facts, they would have found that the claim was completely baseless.

    Now let's assume that someone did, in fact, buy the claim that I am a child molester. Remember, they did so without checking the facts, the claim is baseless, and I am actually _not_ a child molester. But they think I am, and kill me to protect their child.

    Mr. Dodele's case could be seen as a privacy case, because the information in the database supposedly was based on things he actually did. But in my (hypothetical) case, the claims were completely fabricated.

    I think the real problem here is not that privacy is being violated, but that people (1) kill, and (2) do so without being sure their victim is actually guilty of the things they kill them for.

    Assuming that the killer really did kill to protect his child, I think he did her a nice disservice - now she will have to live with the fact that her daddy is a murderer and an idiot, and probably an inmate, too.

    The message I would like to send is (1) take everything with a healthy dose of scepsis, and (2) avoid doing things that are irreversible.

    Have a nice day.
  • What do we expect? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by QCompson (675963) on Tuesday December 11 2007, @11:19AM (#21656747)
    After the alleged murderer was informed that his neighbor had never molested a child and was in fact on the sex-offender list for crimes against adult women, the suspect replied that (I'm paraphrasing here) "these people can't be cured."

    So, the victim was on the sex offender list for raping adult women, but this psycho was so convinced that sex offenders are dangerous predators that can't be cured, that he actually believed his son was in danger. His own words, referring to the victim looking at his son:

    "It was more than watching," Oliver said. "You could see his eyes. He was fantasizing, plotting. Later on down the line, who knows how many other children he could have hurt."

    So raping adult women = lusting after young boys?

    We shouldn't be surprised by this type of tragedy after the media and politicians have gleefully embarked on a decade long scare campaign designed to convince the public that sex-offenders are pure evil incarnate. That they can't be cured. That they are worse than murderers. That they lurk behind every tree and every bush, waiting to attack children. That all sex offenders=child molesters and all child molesters=baby-butt rapers.

    This alleged murderer may be a low-functioning individual, or he just may be crazy, but nevertheless our society has reinforced his paranoia and justified it. The real tragedy about all of this is that we have allowed our "modern" society to behave like some medieval village.
  • Keep in mind (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Y-Crate (540566) on Tuesday December 11 2007, @11:26AM (#21656851)
    If the guy who murdered him gets released in ten, twenty years he can move anywhere without ending up on a list or being forced to tell his neighbors of his past.
  • by SeeManRun (1040704) on Tuesday December 11 2007, @11:28AM (#21656899)
    Its just a form of preemptive justice. He killed him before he hurt someone else. I only hope this justice prevails throughout society so no one ever has to be hurt again!
  • by myth_of_sisyphus (818378) on Tuesday December 11 2007, @11:29AM (#21656911)
    Barely escaped being labelled a sex offender because he pissed in a park near a school. He was really drunk and it was 2 am but he was going to be charged with (I forget exactly) "Exposing himself within fifty feet of a school." He got a good lawyer and got a lesser charge but his life was nearly ruined for a mistake he didn't even remember making.

    It's hard to have sympathy for molesters and rapists but when you hear of people released from prison whose only option is to live under an overpass because that's the only place not near a child I do feel some sympathy. I mean, shouldn't the government designate an area childfree in each state that these guys can live? If not, just put them back in prison for the rest of their lives. It's more humane than under an overpass.
    • by Tom (822) on Tuesday December 11 2007, @01:57PM (#21659929) Homepage Journal

      I mean, shouldn't the government designate an area childfree in each state that these guys can live?
      Can I go there even if I'm not a sex offender? Please?

      Also, remember that we will also need a women-free area for the rapists, and a property-free area for the thieves. Also a brain-free area for the fuckwits to come up with these "protect the children by fucking up someone's life so he's sure to not re-integrate into society" ideas.
  • by CodeShark (17400) <ellsworthpc.yahoo@com> on Tuesday December 11 2007, @11:29AM (#21656917) Homepage
    The point is that "big brother" publishes a list of "bad people". And then there's a progression where it somehow becomes okay for a good people to know how to find and get rid of bad people.

    Seems to me a minor party hack published that it was okay to exterminate folks with a particular ancestry in Europe about 70 years ago, and that Milosovic basically published that it was okay to kill bad folks in Croatia and Bosnia about ten years ago. For those US folks that think "it can't happen here", a governor of a US Midwestern state published in the 1830's that it was ok to exterminate an entire group of people just for what they believed. That order wasn't officially rescinded until 1976.

    Now then, I won't argue whether the convicted man was good or bad -- because most child molestors do not reform -- nor will I argue that folks don't have the right to protect their kids from unreformed molestors. What I will argue is that publishing a list in a manner as easily accessible as the Internet may be the wrong way to go about protecting the neighborhood. Because otherwise mob and/or vigilant justice takes control and can very easily get out of hand. Leading to murder and/or genocide.

  • Could be worse (Score:5, Interesting)

    by archammer2 (1041754) on Tuesday December 11 2007, @11:48AM (#21657343)
    What are the odds of having two people in an apartment building that happen to have the same name? Well, it happened to me. First, last and middle initial. The other guy is a registered sex offender. Despite the two of us living in different apartments (A5 vs A7), I've had several people coming to my door looking for him. ... Including the local police.
    Yes, even though the database of sex offenders has his address as A7 and has pictures (he looks nothing like me), the police insisted that I was a sex offender until I provided an ID to show we had different birthdates.

    So now I have to worry about whackos trying to kill the other guy and getting me instead? Great.
    • by Speare (84249) on Tuesday December 11 2007, @10:52AM (#21656223) Homepage

      I hope the guy ... gets raped in jail

      Nobody deserves rape. You should be thankful that most of society does not share your sense of justice.

          • by MBGMorden (803437) on Tuesday December 11 2007, @11:44AM (#21657241)

            Despite enough notable cases of women killing themselves after being raped?
            And how many guys have killed themselves because their girlfriend dumped them? Is breaking off a relationship worse than murder? How many people have killed themselves because they lost their job? Because their stocks fell in price? Because their parents didn't buy them the sports car they wanted for their birthday?

            I'm not saying rape is a good thing, or that it's not horrible to endure, but claiming that "It's worse than death because some women will kill themselves because of it." leads to a terrible precedent. The bottom line is that some people WILL kill themselves if they get depressed. Putting anything that causes that depression on the same level as murder is just idiotic.

            And no, I've never been raped. By your logic, I guess that makes me unqualified to speak on the subject. Of course, given that we can't ask ANYBODY whose been murdered, we're going to have to start accepting testimony from people who didn't experience all these things.
    • Commensurability? (Score:5, Informative)

      by nem75 (952737) <jens@bremmekamp.com> on Tuesday December 11 2007, @10:56AM (#21656305)

      Who thinks he may have gotten what was coming to him?
      I realize that this will probably not be deemed sufficient by you, but the victim had spent the last twenty years of his life either in prison or in hospital. He was 67. His last offense dates back to 1987.
      • by chakan2 (1106731) on Tuesday December 11 2007, @10:57AM (#21656311)

        THX-1138, there is an entertainment channel that's just continuous footage of two android cops hitting a human prisoner with billy clubs. It made me wonder if a Violence Channel would do well.
        We have Spike, it's basically the same thing, and I think it's doing alright.
      • Re:This is great. (Score:5, Insightful)

        by sk8king (573108) on Tuesday December 11 2007, @11:12AM (#21656635)
        Not to defend anyone, but just to pose a question.

        If you are 18 and are going out with a 17 year old and you're a monster, what are you if you are 17 and going out with a 16 year old? What are you if you are 18 1/2 and dating someone who is 17 3/4? In three months, you'll both be "18". I guess we could ask if you are 18, just about to turn 19 and you are going out with someone who just turned 18, what are you then. And then why is it okay for a 45 year old man to marry a 35 year old woman? What is this thing that happens to a person's mind during that day just before his/her 18th birthday through the day of his/her birthday? And what if you're just going out for ice-cream?

        I'm just trying to figure out what "The Right Way" is. It is my understanding that 18 is a rather arbitrary age since voting, consuming alcohol (legally), and driving (legally) all have different ages associated with be able to perform said actions.
    • Re:Duh. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Potor (658520) <farker1.gmail@com> on Tuesday December 11 2007, @10:59AM (#21656357) Journal

      I was gonna mod you up to save you from obtuse mods, but you're AC. Your point, nevertheless, is right on target.

      Things like the police and civil society were formed to protect us from each other. When you stick something up like a db of criminals and their houses, you effectively remove this protection, and create a society of fear, which becomes a society of hate.

      But to make time for RIAA-orchestrated police raids [google.com], I guess you need to relieve the police of some of their responsibilities.

      • Re:Duh. (Score:5, Funny)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 11 2007, @11:31AM (#21656947)
        We should also make searchable databases for all those suspected or convicted of thief, buglary, murder, fraud, and any other felony or misdemeanor, and a list of who their neighbors were at the time, as well as their immediate family. Make it accessible to the public so everyone can see, we'd be so safe then that we wouldn't need the police anymore.
          • Re:Duh. (Score:5, Insightful)

            by Shakrai (717556) * on Tuesday December 11 2007, @12:49PM (#21658579) Journal

            I think all public records should be easily accessible and searchable.

            Cool! Do I have your permission then to go into your DMV file and obtain your social security number and address?

            The point being of course that even public databases can have reasonable privacy protections in place. I fail to see why someones criminal record should be accessible to all after they have paid their debt to soceity. In the specific case of sex offenders, if they are so dangerous that we have to notify people when they move into the neighborhood, then why the fuck are they being released from prison?

            Either they are that dangerous, in which case lock 'em up and throw away the key, or they aren't, in which case, WTF is up with being punished after you get out of prison?

            I'd tend to be with the lock 'em up and throw away the key crowd as far as child molesters and rapists go.... but other sex "offenders" (teenagers having sex when one or both are under the age of consent) are also finding themselves on these lists. I don't see how any reasonable person can condone that.

              • Re:Duh. (Score:5, Insightful)

                by Shakrai (717556) * on Tuesday December 11 2007, @01:15PM (#21659113) Journal

                I'm reasonably sure my social security number is not considered of public record.

                No, it's not, because soceity recognizes that there are legitimate reasons for withholding it, even from public records. I filed bankruptcy a few years ago -- if you were so inclined you could go pull every single document and fling from my case off PACER -- but the SSN is redacted from all of them.

                Likewise, I'd like to think that if you pay your debt to soceity (i.e: you aren't on parole or in prison) then soceity shouldn't judge you for your past actions. I'm also a member of the minority that thinks it's abhorrent to deny convicted felon's the right to vote -- after they have completed their sentences. Why the hell should you be disenfranchised from soceity for the rest of your life if the crime wasn't harsh enough to warrant a life sentence?

                  • Re:Duh. (Score:5, Insightful)

                    by The Spoonman (634311) on Tuesday December 11 2007, @02:01PM (#21660017) Homepage
                    Spoken like a True Republican...you know..the kind of idiot who thinks our criminal "rehabilitation" system does anything more than breed more, better, stronger, well-connected criminals.
              • Re:Duh. (Score:5, Insightful)

                by cmburns69 (169686) on Tuesday December 11 2007, @01:34PM (#21659467) Homepage Journal
                I thought you would like to know that sex-offenders are LESS likely to be repeat offenders (As posters above have pointed out, and provided links and citations).

                But then I read the rest of your post and realized that you were less interested in actual justice (the administering of deserved punishment or reward justice defined [reference.com]) and more interested in living in fear.

        • Re:Duh. (Score:5, Insightful)

          by Knara (9377) on Tuesday December 11 2007, @12:39PM (#21658351)

          Take a look at the DOJ statistics for recidivism and sex offenders (easy way to get a good analysis is via the Skeptics magazine from earlier this year, it'll be on their webpage). Contrary to popular belief, sex offenders re-offend at a much lower rate than most other felonies.

          But popular society right now has a lot invested in the idea that there's a pedophile behind every rock, so no one pays attention to the real numbers (since we're out of commies now, and terrorism is all wrapped up by Jack Bauer, this must be the "new thing" to worry about when we're not making PSAs about the "autism epidemic").

          • Re:Duh. (Score:5, Interesting)

            by king-manic (409855) on Tuesday December 11 2007, @01:29PM (#21659371)

            Take a look at the DOJ statistics for recidivism and sex offenders (easy way to get a good analysis is via the Skeptics magazine from earlier this year, it'll be on their webpage). Contrary to popular belief, sex offenders re-offend at a much lower rate than most other felonies.

            But popular society right now has a lot invested in the idea that there's a pedophile behind every rock, so no one pays attention to the real numbers (since we're out of commies now, and terrorism is all wrapped up by Jack Bauer, this must be the "new thing" to worry about when we're not making PSAs about the "autism epidemic").
            Short term studies put a fairly low ~14-18% number. Long term studies pin it at ~50%.

            meta study [csom.org] ~39% for rapists ~53% for child molesters after 25 years

            3 year study [usdoj.gov] ~5% after 3 years (mixeD)

            Canadian study [ps-sp.gc.ca] ~27% after 15-20 years. (mixed)

            Another Canadian one [johnhoward.ab.ca] ~42% after 15-30 years.

            Variations are due to different criteria for re offenses. Some count only second convictions, others count second arrests. All note that this classification of crime is often under reported. Most of the long term studies point to a coin flip whether a person will do it again.
        • Re:Duh. (Score:5, Insightful)

          by iamacat (583406) on Tuesday December 11 2007, @01:01PM (#21658833)
          According to this article, which sites multiple studies [honoluluadvertiser.com] recidivism rate of sex offenders have been estimated between 5.7% and 13.4%. Mind you, many more were rearrested for some non-sex crime (such as drug use or theft I would guess). Also other criminals with no prior history of sex convictions were about as 1/4th as likely as sex offenders to commit a sex crime.

          So here we have an individual who is 86-94% likely not to reoffend. Do you think his chances to stay out of trouble and not cause harm to your child are improved by living under the bridge [cnn.com], not having a decent job, only having other sex offenders as friends and having reasons to hate potential victims (us)? Do you think Jonny's son is likely to grow up an upstanding citizen if his family is hated and he is shunned by everyone in school?

          Police tries to protect society overall by reducing crime rate. By taking justice into your own hands, you are only thinking about yourself at the expense of the rest of your community. Even if your actions are technically legal, you may be actually hurting your and your family's safety due to your lack of experience. Showing hate to someone is sure likely to make you a preferred target of their potential future crimes.
    • by jbeach (852844) on Tuesday December 11 2007, @11:43AM (#21657213) Homepage Journal
      It's happened already. In Philipsburg NJ, a couple of civic-minded @$$holes broke into a house to beat up a Megan's law listed sex offender - but the guy they beat up had nothing to do with any sex offense ever.

      http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=990CE2D6153AF933A15751C0A963958260 [nytimes.com]

      This was an early case, and the county government screwed up - they took the extra step of delivering flyers to the neighborhood, freaking everyone out and thus whipping up a lynch mob. Nevertheless, the same principle stands. Yes, people have a right to know, but they don't have a right to pre-emptively use violence. Practical as well as moral reasons.

      There's a reason why we give law enforcement to the police. They can make mistakes like anybody else - but who the hell knows what a fired-up, untrained, possibly psychotic random lynch mob can do, to *innocent people*?

    • by faedle (114018) on Tuesday December 11 2007, @11:13AM (#21656655) Homepage Journal
      The "sex offender" registry hasn't prevented one crime against children, and has in fact caused more problems than it has solved.

      From the US Department of Justice: 96% of female rape victims younger than 12 years old, knew their attackers. 20% were victimized by their fathers or step-fathers. 60% were victimized by another family member.

      Sex crimes are the only crimes we continue to punish people after they've "paid their debt to society". We restrict their movement, restrict where they can live, and in many cases ensure through force of law that they never lead a normal life again.

      If we, as a society, are convinced that child molesters are incurable, let's just keep them locked up. This idiotic list serves no purpose: if they are, indeed, almost certain to commit the crime again, why are we releasing them from institutionalization? If these people are "sick", let's transfer them from the penal system to the mental health system where they probably belong.
    • by TheMeuge (645043) on Tuesday December 11 2007, @11:19AM (#21656739) Homepage
      Well, why don't you tell me what is the benefit (to the public) of having a PUBLIC registry of convicted sex offenders (statutory rape anyone)?

      The only reason for such registries, is to enact continuing lifelong punishment on the convicted criminal, even after the release, by virtue of harrassment by the members of the public who somehow have the free time to go browsing these databases (instead of taking care of their children).

      What are you going to do if a sex offender moves next door to you? Have him evicted on a technicality? Torch his house? Stab him? Don't you think that whatever little chance there is of having this man re-integrate into society, will likely be ruined by this behavior? If you don't want to re-integrate this man into the society, then go ahead and lobby for life-sentences for any sex offense (18 sleeping with 17?)... or better yet - the death penalty. But if you take up the view that people can change, and can pay their debt to society, you have to accept your own conclusions.

      But back to the main question - how is publicly-viewable registration going to increase public safety? Is it going to prevent a habitual rapist from raping? If not registering is a little crime, do you think that matters to someone who is pathologically going to commit far more severe offenses?
    • by Rycross (836649) on Tuesday December 11 2007, @11:32AM (#21656967)
      Please cite a source for high recidivism in sexual crimes. This is frequently stated, but only common knowledge is used as a source. If you can't cite a source for this, we have to throw that argument out.

      Furthermore, my point of view is that the lists are not making children safer. Rather, they seem to be aimed to exact punishment far after the criminal has paid his or her dues.

      Finally, if there is a risk of recidivism, then we need to keep the person in jail and therapy. Releasing them and placing them on a "harass this person" list just encourages criminal behavior. After all, we are releasing people who are still dangerous (after all, high recidivism, right?) and then promptly removing any chance for them to integrate with normal society and develop a support network.

      We're letting out dangerous people and encouraging them to recommit!
    • by eck011219 (851729) on Tuesday December 11 2007, @12:15PM (#21657879)
      The way it works here in Illinois, as far as I know, is that you have to register with the police. Residents can go to the police station and ask them who the registered sex offenders are in their area.

      Which is where my problem with this law comes in. Being able to sidle into my den with a cup of coffee, turn on the computer, and find out who in my neighborhood is registered is a very different level of commitment than going to the police station. And it makes it possible for a whack job like this guy to find out that information without alerting police. No leads, then, when he kills the guy.

      But that's not the full extent of my issue with it. My main problem is that you can't add things to someone's sentence after the fact. If you want to tell every sex offender from now on that they'll be on this list, that's fine. But to add someone who was convicted in, say, 1975 and spent ten years in prison is ethically wrong and quite possibly unconstitutional (under the 5th and/or the 14th amendments, perhaps). From a practical standpoint, it adds punishment after time served and could be argued to deny the convict of life (in this case), liberty, and even property (given that it's probably pretty much impossible to get a job if you're on the website).

      There are a lot of dirtbags out there who are listed on the websites, and I do worry about them not only in general for society but for the safety of my own daughter. But dirtbags or not, you can't just tack more on to a sentence after they get out (sometimes years after they get out) because their crime is more repellent than most.

      And I know, there is a higher chance of recidivism among sex offenders. So again, make it part of the sentence now. Eventually, all sex offenders will be on the website. Not a perfect solution if you're scared that you live near an offender, but if we start making exceptions to the law for hot-button issues, the entire concept of liberty is sunk anyway (for all of us, not just the sex offenders).