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Vonage Loses Appeal; Verizon Owed $120 Million
Posted by
Zonk
on Fri Nov 16, 2007 04:44 PM
from the need-to-get-out-of-the-spanking-machine dept.
from the need-to-get-out-of-the-spanking-machine dept.
Billosaur writes "Things do not look good for Vonage. Yesterday, they lost their request for reconsideration of their settlement with Verizon. This means Vonage owes Verizon $120 million to end the patent lawsuit filed against them. The costs associated with defending the case have cut into Vonage's bottom line, and despite attempts to cut costs by laying off 10% of their workforce, they may be unable to make a payment against their debt come December. According to the settlement, Vonage will pay $117.5 million to Verizon and another $2.5 million dollars to charity. Vonage's shares have dropped 87% since their IPO, now hovering around $1.50 per share."
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I've Got Their Number (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:I've Got Their Number (Score:4, Insightful)
So what? Who cares? What the hell is the difference? Verizon had no problem porting some numbers to my preferred provider, nor did some other telcos, like Sprint, from whom I first got the number. Vonage had a problem.
So what does your buzzword complaint have to do with anything? This is a question merely of whether Vonage will let me port a number, the way other telcos do, the way LNP is supposed to work. If anything, you should throw your buzzwords at Vonage, instead of acting like you're some kind of bigshot. All it does is make you look like you don't understand LNP.
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and who woulda thunk it... (Score:3, Funny)
Previous art no longer holds up? Awesome (Score:5, Funny)
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</badjoke>
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Re:Patent on the wheel. (Score:2)
--
You are too late..
However, in that case, an Australian lawyer was able to sneak the wheel patent through a fast-track application system. The US patent went through the full application procedure.
Refrence;
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn2178.html [newscientist.com]
When are patent portfolios restraint of trade? (Score:5, Insightful)
All that's left are a handful of tiny regionals, and Verizon, AT&T, and QWest. MCI is dead and gone... and buying up patents (or even 'cleanly' filing them) means that these companies can effectively shutout the competition.
Not good.
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Kick a Verizon representative when you get a chance.
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I also understand monopolies, and the Sherman Anti-trust Act, The 1996 TCA Act, and other legislation.
What I'm alluding to is that if a sufficient number of patent protections amounts to monopolization of an industry-- once a former public trust-- then there's some thing wrong here.
Vonage is a victim, just as many technology companies are victims, of the patent process. Vonage had a chance,but doesn't now. Yesterday on
not good (Score:2, Interesting)
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the combined costs should be within a few dollars a month of vonage.
Re:not good (Score:4, Informative)
I seriously hope you're joking. The cost for unlimited local-only POTS service (with Verizon, ha ha) is $5 more than what Vonage charges for their premium residential plan, which includes unlimited calling to anywhere in the US and Canada. If I had to tack on a cheap long distance service, my costs would be an additional $30 per month (all my family lives out of state). Add to that Verizon's nutty ideas of what constitutes a local call, and there'll be an addition $10 per month in "regional toll" charges. That means I'd be paying $45 per month more if I went that route. I'd be better off getting their freedom unlimited plan. Oh, and I spend a couple hours a week on the phone with people in Germany. Vonage is only $.04/minute. How much would that be with Verizon?
Sorry, but there's no way shape or form that one of the local monopoly POTS services is going to be within a few dollars of what Vonage customers are paying now. Nobody would have ever switched from their regional incumbent monopoly unless they had significant reason to do so. There was an element of risk involved in trying out VoIP that required sufficient financial incentive to overcome.
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$6 of that is caller ID so if I skipped that it would be $22.
this is in a major metro area with a bell system entity.
more to the topic though, just because vonage is likely to get more expensive or go away doesn't mean all your options are closed. there is still....
* skype
* ditching the land line in favor of cell
* cable modem "triple play" phone service
the incremental costs here can be very low, possibly less than vonage was
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the combined costs should be within a few dollars a month of vonage.
You've got to be kidding.
I pay $14.99/month for the lowest Vonage plan. That includes all my local and long distance calls. That includes voice mail, call waiting, call forwarding, etc etc etc. I have ONE phone number that simultaneously rings my home office, my 'real' office, and my cell phone. I have 3 rings to pick up any of those, otherwise it goes to voic
Re:not good (Score:5, Interesting)
I love getting email when I have a message at home.
I like being able to listen to it online.
I like having all my incoming and outgoing call information available.
I like having forwarding for free.
I like low cost international and free national.
I would probably pay a good bit more for this quality of service. TimeWarner offered less at a higher cost, so forget them...
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Dear Google... (Score:2)
K thx bye.
What precisely are they infringing on? (Score:2)
1.50? (Score:2)
Vonage Stockholders? (Score:3, Interesting)
Seriously, anybody who didn't see Vonage's failure coming before the IPO deserves this. They were an unprofitable company in a saturated market with a product (Voice-Over-IP) that doesn't appeal to most folks.
Sure, $20-25 per month for phone service is a wonderful deal but the major players with rock solid products have similar prices ($30-40 per month). And in effect, they will be de-listed soon and become another ghost in the great halls of technology company who never made it.
Re:Vonage Stockholders? (Score:4, Interesting)
And, really, I've seen lots of people interested in the lower prices and better packages that VoIP has to offer. However what seems to be happening are that cable companies are cleaning up in the VoIP space, because they already have the infrastructure, and can offer packages (TV/Internet/phone) that are actually a good deal.
Vonage, really, was a pretty good business with reasonably satisfied customers. In fact, I imagine they would have stood the test of time were it not for two things: (1) the incumbent monopolies are rich, and (2) patent law gives anyone with enough money the ability to exclude competitors.
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Re:Vonage Stockholders? (Score:5, Interesting)
Not that this isn't an attractive situation. If the government forced you to rent your car out for 50% less than it cost you to rent it, would you be happy about the deal? Probably not. What could you do about it? Maybe nothing directly. But if you could find a loophole like requiring renters to have a million dollar liability insurance policy, maybe you wouldn't have to rent it out as much.
Or, if McDonalds had a deal that if you bought 100 hamburgers at a time they would sell them for $0.10 each. So you go there, by 100 hamburgers and set up a stand on the corner reselling them - right in front of McDonalds. And your sign is saying how cheap your "McDonalds" hamburgers are compared to the store behind you. Would McDonalds sell you another 100? Maybe not.
This is the sort of situation that Verizon found itself in. They do not have to support their competitors, but they had to support Vonage. The government and state regulators won't let them stop supporting Vonage directly. So we dust off an old patent and find it can be used to beat up Vonage. If it wasn't for the patent, there would be something else.
Best stick with one of the under-the-radar VOIP providers that just resells some bulk service from Sprint. Lingo is one of those. Cheaper than Vonage and a lot less visible.
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Re:Vonage Stockholders? (Score:4, Insightful)
Now, if we are going to say that Verizon ISP is not profitable on it's own, and requires the high margin POTS lines to subsidize it, then we have a classic anti-trust case where a monopoly is using it's monopoly position to control a different industry.
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Re: (Score:3, Informative)
ILECs that were given monopolies in areas in exchange for precisely the scenario you describe -- opening up their copper to competitors.
Your tax dollars hard at work. (Score:2)
Let me rephrase, you waive your right to free choice in all things, and in exchange you receive whatever those you voted for feel that they owe you. Generally its mediocre services (such as justice or medicine), or total and complete abuse (such as prohibitionist laws, feel good propaganda and theft of personal property through armed robbery (confiscation) or fraud (taxes for "necessary services")).
Whenever a company with good service shows up (and V
Re:Vonage Stockholders? (Score:4, Interesting)
IMHO, this little patent spat was Verizon's way of fucking-over a competitor without actually having to compete on merit to do so. (IIRC, the patent is basically a bogus "On teh Intarwebs!" rig-up of existing tech, folks).
Also, up until this lawsuit, Vonage was actually beginning to turn a profit. Not anymore.
That said, I honestly doubt that anyone saw it coming, up until Verizon decided they didn't like the competition anymore.
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As a former Verizon customer who is now a Vonage customer, I can tell you that Vonage is definitely a better deal. POTS service through Verizon cost me about $35-$40 on paper when I first signed up, but the price would always creep up to the $40-$50/month range over the next few years. Then I'd call the bastards up, and we'd be back down to $35-$40. Then the process starts all over again.
Once I switched to Vonage, that problem went away, I've been with them for 3 years, and no price increase. I can call al
competition (Score:3, Insightful)
Soooo, looks like... (Score:5, Funny)
Darn... (Score:2)
Or maybe I can flash it into something useful when Vonage dies?
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Depends on the price. I recently switched from Packet8 to Gizmo Project; after bricking my DTA310 trying to get it working with Gizmo, I ordered one of these [thevoipconnection.com] earlier this week. I already have a WRT54GL (running OpenWRT Kamikaze), so I don't need router functionality in an ATA. I might try unbricking the DTA310 at some point, but that's a low priorit
Brace up for higher bills (Score:2)
Question (Score:2)
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To a person who had a job all that really matters is now they don't have a job. Listing on slashdot every company that had to lay people off would quickly become depressing.
Re:Question (Score:4, Insightful)
In one scenario, somebody else gets your job, in the other nobody gets your job.
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Not *this* December (Score:5, Informative)
Sad to see them go... (Score:3, Interesting)
Alternate VoIP companies thread (Score:2)
Ch 11, but not Ch 7 (Score:2, Interesting)
1. The Vonage name has excellent recognition due to their heavy investment in advertising.
2. Vonage has a paid up license to use the patents required to implement Voip.
3. The various patent holders (Verizon, ATT, one other) should probably go after other Voip providers like Packet 8 who don't have nearly the cash on hand to survive the suits. Therefore, the VOIP consumer marketplac
Everyone? (Score:2, Insightful)
I am sure they would disagree that it needs to end.
And they have a much louder voice than you.
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RE: Verizon... (Score:2)
Seriously, if they want business, such as mine, for example, the sun will go supernova before they get it.
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One less telecom fighting for your dollars means one less competitors and thus less consumer options, even for just internet access.
Re:I just hope the commercials go away (Score:4, Funny)
"Boo hoo, boo hoo hoo..."
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