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Verizon Wireless Opt-Out Plan For Customer Records

Posted by kdawson on Sun Oct 14, 2007 01:49 PM
from the no-just-no dept.
An anonymous reader writes to let us know that Verizon Wireless is planning to share its customers' calling records (called CPNI) with "our affiliates, agents and parent companies (including Vodafone) and their subsidiaries." The article explains that CPNI "includes the numbers of incoming and outgoing calls and time spent on each call, among other data." Some subscribers, it's not known if it's all of them, received a letter in the mail giving them 30 days to opt out of this sharing by calling 1-800-333-9956. Skydeck, a mobile and wireless services company, seems to have been the first to call attention to the Verizon initiative on their blog; they also posted a scan of the letter (sideways PDF) from Verizon.
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  • by goombah99 (560566) on Sunday October 14 2007, @01:52PM (#20975165)
    When I hear things like that I always wonder how they handle past customer data. Those folks are not being given any "opt out" provision. Same as when companies get bought or sold off for parts. Current customers of course are respected since they have value but past customers are only worth the data you can mine out of them.
      • by bagofbeans (567926) on Monday October 15 2007, @09:17AM (#20981903)
        By letter, template below. Usually, only a letter is legalling binding.

        YOUR ADDRESS HERE

        DATE

        A/C Number: aaaa-bbbb-cccc-dddd

        Dear Sir or Madam,

        I am writing to close my ISSUING COMPANY NAME Visa/Mastercard credit card account aaaa-bbbb-cccc-dddd. I enclose the one/two issued card(s), cut into pieces.

        I have sent a check separately to pay the $$$$.cc balance outstanding on the current statement. I agree to pay for any transactions authorized by me that I have missed in my calculations as soon as you advise me of them.

        Any further transactions to the credit card account aaaa-bbbb-cccc-dddd are not authorised by me, and I instruct you not to accept any further purchases or other debits to the account.

        I also request that you remove me from your direct mail marketing lists and do not share my name, address, telephone, transaction, and other personal details with ISSUING COMPANY NAME's marketing affiliates or other organisations.

        Yours faithfully,

        YOUR FULL NAME
  • I got one of those letters several weeks ago, and immediately called the 800-333-9956 number listed to opt out.
  • Pretty painless (Score:5, Informative)

    by Russ Nelson (33911) on Sunday October 14 2007, @02:01PM (#20975229) Homepage
    It's pretty painless to do. You need to have your account details, and you have to jump through a separate hoop for each number, but at least they retain your context from hoop to hoop. Saves you from having to enter your SSN every time.
    • Re:Pretty painless (Score:5, Insightful)

      by rtconner (544309) on Sunday October 14 2007, @02:02PM (#20975235) Homepage Journal
      It's just evil that they make you do it at all.
    • Re:Pretty painless (Score:5, Insightful)

      by CosmeticLobotamy (155360) on Sunday October 14 2007, @02:15PM (#20975321)
      Saves you from having to enter your SSN every time.

      I haven't called, but I'm gathering from you that they ask you to enter it once? They send a piece of mail (with their logo on it, so you know it's really them) to you asking you to call a number that could be anyone and ask you to enter your social security number? Thanks, Verizon, for making identity theft even easier.
      • Re:Pretty painless (Score:5, Informative)

        by reset_button (903303) on Sunday October 14 2007, @02:34PM (#20975417)
        I just called. You need to enter your phone number, billing zip code, and the last 4 digits of your SS#.
        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          I just called also, and if you have a password set up on your account for billing purposes (i.e., you have to provide it when calling to make any changes to your service or billing), then they ask you for that instead of SSN.
            • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

              They aren't lending you money at all. Ever notice how your phone bill the first month you sign up is double-ish? Thats because they charge you the pro-rated amount for the remaining billing period, and then next months charge. In reality, you are giving them money for future airtime.
      • by PPH (736903) on Sunday October 14 2007, @02:42PM (#20975465)
        Actually, you have to give them the SSN that you made up back when you signed up for service originally.
    • Re:Pretty painless (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Gwyn_232 (585793) on Sunday October 14 2007, @02:26PM (#20975387)
      It doesn't matter how easy it is, that's not the point. In pretty much every western country, except for the US, this would be totally illegal. It amazes me how Americans seem (on the whole) totally content with not having any data protection laws.
      • I am from Europe and I don't like the way the governments here have chosen to protect our data. In the US the government doesn't care much (in theory - in practice it actively collects your data) and so you are responsible for protecting your own data, but here in Europe the government acts as a nanny to the point that it is very difficult even to keep an address book, and there are not good definitions explaining what personal data are. At least, that's how I see the situation. I think the best thing wo

  • I'm trying to understand this. Although it is painted as a marketing arrangement, does this provide them the immunity (going forward) that Congree would not grant retroactively?
    • I'm trying to understand this. Although it is painted as a marketing arrangement, does this provide them the immunity (going forward) that Congree would not grant retroactively?

      I doubt it. The information they are sharing (who you called, when, and for how long) is basically the same information the police can get from a pen register. The Supreme Court decided long ago that pen registers do not require a warrant.

      The immunity the telcos are seeking relates to allowing the NSA to evesdrop on calls. On

  • I can't believe the shit companies can get away with over here. Call me paranoid, but I think my next cellphone will be another pay-as-you-go under someone else's name.

    Actually. Maybe that would be a good business idea. Buy a PAYG phone and swap SIMS with someone at random. Maybe make it so you mail them on every few months. For the truly paranoid...
    • Actually. Maybe that would be a good business idea. Buy a PAYG phone and swap SIMS with someone at random. Maybe make it so you mail them on every few months. For the truly paranoid...

      Don't normally agree with AC trolls, but this is truly the dumbest thing I've heard in a while. Perhaps you're not aware that the only thing that makes a SIM interesting to phone companies is the number its attached to? Swapping SIMs == swapping phone numbers. If you're paranoid enough to randomly get a new phone number ever

  • by WwWonka (545303) on Sunday October 14 2007, @02:07PM (#20975271)
    ...of corporate (a)merica truly getting out of hand.

    This scenario is much like a criminal going to commit a crime no matter what, but he won't if you get his letter in the mail and then take steps and waste your time to tell him not too. Just so many things wrong with this story, but unfortunately not shocking and of course NO ONE will do anything to stop this trend in the country other than bitch and moan.
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      so what are you doing? Besides bitching and moaning.... I just finished my letter to my congressman. How bout you?

  • I guess they want to follow the gmail model for advertising, etc.
    Unfortunately, while many people have several e-mail accounts, you cannot
    switch so easily between different phones. Moreover, gmail is nearly anonymous, while you
    cell phone is anything but.
  • Incoming phone numbers? Not sure what Verizon does with those, but I don't even get those numbers from Sprint on my bill.

  • by kybred (795293) on Sunday October 14 2007, @02:16PM (#20975323)
    Opt-out for this kind of thing should be illegal. I should have to opt-in to allow this, but of course few people would so it might not be worth it to the companies. Which is why they use opt-out.
  • Because an OPT IN would be the right thing to do, but that would require morals wouldn't it.
    • by ScrewMaster (602015) on Sunday October 14 2007, @02:40PM (#20975455)
      Corporations, like governments, are amoral by definition. Opt-in would require business ethic, of which Verizon has repeatedly shown it has little. To be fair, the same applies to AT&T/SBC, Comcast, AOL, and any of the other big boys.

      The people who consume the goods and services provided by the likes of Verizon have become less important than the companies willing to pay to mine customer databases. There's a lot of money in that, which means quality-of-service levels (and corresponding expenses) can be reduced while maintaining profitability. If that kind of information-sharing were simply illegal, perhaps our communications providers would have to get back to worrying themselves about what their customers want.
  • by r_jensen11 (598210) on Sunday October 14 2007, @02:18PM (#20975335)

    In order to better serve your communications needs and to identify, offer and provide products and services to meet your requirements, we need your permission to share this information among our affiliates, agents and parent companies (including Vodafone) and their subsidiaries... You have a right to keep your CPNI private by "opting out." Unless you provide us with notice that you wish to opt out within 30 days of receiving this letter, we will assume that you give Verison Companies the right to share your CPNI with the authorized companies as described above.

    I know this is common practice, but I'd still like to believe that this would be a non-binding contract. Especially since there's no mutual consideration. Here's an excerpt from the Michigan Law Review regarding Silence as Acceptance of an Offer:

    It is generally held that an offeree has a right to make no reply to offers, and that his silence and inaction cannot be construed as an assent to the offer. This is true even though the offer states that silence will be taken as consent, for the offeror cannot prescribe conditions of rejections so as to turn silence on the part of the offeree into acceptance.

    The Virginia Law Review continues to talk about when silence is binding:

    Where the offeror acts to his detriment in reasonable reliance on the offeree's conduct, the offeree's inaction, will be deemed an acceptance after he has remained silent for a reasonable length of time.

    The difference here, though is that Verizon isn't acting to its detriment, they're going to be getting a big fat cheque out of this from a 3rd party. So, once again, it goes back to mutual consideration.

    • The difference between this and any random company making an 'offer' is that you have already agreed to this shit when you signed the contract with Verizon. I think you'll find that if you re-read that contract, it says it can do whatever it wants with the information they collect from you and that this is merely a 'nice' (I use that word quite loosely) thing they are doing for you.

      They aren't breaking that law because they already -have- your agreement. It's your disagreement they are asking for, and you
    • by spiritraveller (641174) on Sunday October 14 2007, @02:58PM (#20975567)

      I know this is common practice, but I'd still like to believe that this would be a non-binding contract. Especially since there's no mutual consideration. Here's an excerpt from the Michigan Law Review regarding Silence as Acceptance of an Offer:
      Contract has nothing to do with it. Obviously, you can't send someone a letter and form a contract just because they didn't bother to respond. The reason they can get away with this is because they have Congress in the palm of their hands.

      It was just a few years ago that everyone was up in arms about companies sharing our personal information. Congress was pressured to create some regulations to stop it. Instead of going for an "Opt-in Rule" where companies would only be allowed to share or sell your information if you affirmatively acted in telling them it was ok, they passed an "Opt-out Rule."

      Under the current scheme, all a company has to do is tell you about it's information sharing policies and give you an opportunity to Opt-out. They don't need a contract. They don't need a meeting of the minds, consideration, offer and acceptance or anything but your silence. If you don't want your information shared, you'll need to get busy and start notifying every company you've ever done business with. You can thank Congress for this.
  • New Verizon Patent (Score:3, Insightful)

    by freelunch (258011) on Sunday October 14 2007, @02:39PM (#20975447)
    In the preferred embodiment a method of fucking over customers is described whereby private customer data is disclosed to third parties for profit.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 14 2007, @02:51PM (#20975523)
    It seems that Verizon is trying to sidestep the 12/2/07 deadline for new rules regarding CPNI. Earlier this year, the FCC decided to change the CPNI rules for carriers (both wireless and wireline) to try and beef-up the security around the call details that these carriers handle: http://www.ipbusinessmag.com/departments.php?department_id=6&article_id=23 [ipbusinessmag.com]

    One thing that is clear from the FCC ruling is that "The FCC changed this requirement to mandate that customers obtain "opt-in" approval from their customers prior to sharing CPNI with their joint venture partners and independent contractors for marketing purposes only." Verizon shouldn't be able to have a global "opt-in" through silence, unless they're trying to get that recorded before the more stringent policy goes into effect in December.
  • by fahrbot-bot (874524) on Sunday October 14 2007, @03:12PM (#20975625)
    From the TFA: In order to better serve your communications needs and to identify, offer and provide products and services to meet your requirements, ...

    Meaning: In order to increase our revenue and profit margins ...

    ... we need your permission to share this information among our affiliates, agents and parent companies (including Vodafone) and their subsidiaries.

    ... unless you tell us otherwise, we will trash any semblance of privacy you thought you had and share your data with the entities we really care about, so we can all make even more money off you chumps.

    I guess it could be worse, they could be sharing your data with the NSA. Oh wait...damn.

  • by jeeves99 (187755) * on Sunday October 14 2007, @05:03PM (#20976329)
    I called the customer service number (*611) and talked to a rep for 20 minutes asking every conceivable question about this policy change. I put her on speakerphone and continued reading slashdot while we chatted. If a lot of people called them like this, their call center costs will rise. I don't see really any other way of letting them know my discontent.

    +1 mod for screwing the big guy. :)
  • by a1337Hax0r (1173755) on Sunday October 14 2007, @05:49PM (#20976629)
    Let's see. I suffer from a terrible disease of one type or another (My daughter thinks Mesothelioma is cool. I think she watches too much TV). Anyhow, I call several specialists to schedule appointments for treatment and then I call a lawyer to put the smack down on those nasty Asbestos peeps. An infomercial low-life who sells Mesothelioma snake oil buys my phone records, scans it for all the doctor records (umm... duh... they are online) connects the dots and then starts calling my number which is also on the DNC registery. Last time I checked, there were Federal laws against sharing medical information without express written permission.
  • by forsetti (158019) on Sunday October 14 2007, @06:48PM (#20976921)
    I am not a Verizon customer, but have made calls to many Verizon customers, and have received calls from many Verizon customers. Using only Verizon data, one would be able to reconstruct quite a bit of my calling patterns. Can I call Verizon, and have them withhold calls involving my phone number(s) ?

  • Copyright (Score:3, Interesting)

    by CTilluma (1046002) on Monday October 15 2007, @10:53AM (#20983087) Homepage
    Would it be possible to copyright my personal information such that providing that information without my express permission would constitute copyright infringement?
    • Indeed. I left Verizon years ago (used to have them for landline and DSL), and haven't looked back. They were horrible then, and have clearly only gotten worse. Not that the other phone companies are saints, but Verizon just sucks.
      • Re:Time to switch (Score:5, Interesting)

        by moosesocks (264553) on Sunday October 14 2007, @02:23PM (#20975367) Homepage
        I've always found it at least mildly disturbing that Verizon makes AT&T look good. I mean... this is Death-star-logo-sells-your-conversations-to-the-NSA AT&T we're talking about.

        I was actually on with AT&T Wireless before they were Cingular, and they actually were *very* nice to us. Even once they were Cingular, their customer service was great even though they did sort of alienate their former AT&T customers. A few of the price plans that the old AT&T had right before being absorbed into Cingular were far better then anything Cingular or Verizon have ever offered. If you wanted to modify your plan, however, you had to switch to a Cingular plan which would inevitably cost you more money. There were a few tricks for getting new phones out of the deal as well, although it got a lot harder over time. Still.... you have to give them major props for honoring the plan -- I held onto it for a few years after the merger. You also didn't have to pay for incoming text messages on any plan, something that no other US carrier does to my knowledge (most European countries have legislation which forces the caller to pay for both sides of the conversation, making incoming calls and SMS free)

        However, as time went on, Verizon improved its coverage in my area, while there were no improvements in GSM service. Frustrated by not being able to get a signal at home, I switched to Verizon. A year and a half down the road, and I'm fed up to the point where I'm switching back the day my contract runs out. I've been overbilled, had my service disconnected, had my plan changed without my consent, and Verizon gave my old number to somebody else after they "lost" it while porting. And of course, in order to resolve any of this, you either have to call them and wait on hold for hours on end, or visit one of their stores -- which are more and more resembling the DMV these days (I've seen actual fights break out on more than one occasion).
            • The U.S. system seems screwy for text messages, but it makes sense for voice calls. The caller pays for the cost of the call on the POTS system to whatever exchange the cellular number is in. Then the person with the cellphone pays for the airtime to transmit that call over the cellular network to their handset. (And they pay for the airtime whether the call is outgoing or incoming; what they're paying for is the circuit, not really the 'call.') This means, if the call originates from the same area that the cellphone's number is in, the caller pays next to nothing, since it's a local call. In fact, they have no way of knowing, just by looking at the number, whether it's a cell or landline. There's no difference in the U.S. between a "cellular number" and a "regular number."

              It doesn't strike me as illogical. If it cost people more to call cellphones than landlines, the uptake of cellphones would have been a lot slower. I certainly wouldn't be able to use a cellphone as my primary business line, since it would be obnoxious to charge people more (and, hence, discourage them from calling me) because I want the ability to take calls on the road.

              The U.S. pricing structure means that text messages are a bad deal (which is why they're little used here compared to in Europe), but it also sped the adoption of cell phones to many people who wouldn't have bought them otherwise, particularly business users, and it prevented people from consciously avoiding making calls to cell phones because of the expense. It puts the expense of owning a cellphone on the person who wants the convenience of being mobile, rather than on the caller.
      • by mikeraz (12065) on Sunday October 14 2007, @02:50PM (#20975507) Homepage
        We need the Mutt Telco. "All telcos suck, mutt telco sucks less."
      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        I have had no issue with Verizon for the 5 years I have had them. I had a 2-year contract with them through work, which expired in 2002. I have changed my plan, changed my minutes, and even bought new phones without having a any contracts put onto my account.

        I don't know why people don't like them, but I must be the exception. That, or I care about not dropping calls when I am downtown.

        GSM is a great idea, but in the USA CDMA has better coverage.
    • Yeah, just switch to the phone company that spies for the NSA.
        • Re:Time to switch (Score:5, Insightful)

          by jeffasselin (566598) <cormacolinde&gmail,com> on Sunday October 14 2007, @02:42PM (#20975461) Journal

          a corporation helping its government to spy is bad?
          something else?
          I'd think that a corporation helping its government spy illegally is bad. If the spying is done in a legal, constitutional way, with a judge overseeing the procedures, I don't think most people would object.
            • Re:Time to switch (Score:4, Insightful)

              by Chandon Seldon (43083) on Sunday October 14 2007, @03:43PM (#20975833) Homepage

              The government breaking the law and private citizens breaking the law are radically different things. The government is an artificial structure defined by the law - if it breaks that law, then it can no longer be trusted to serve it's intended purpose rather than some unwanted purpose. And when a government is serving unwanted and unintended purposes that's a very bad thing.

                • merely helped its government intercept phone conversations with (strongly) suspected foreign terrorists.

                  Basically every single person in the country trusts their private conversations to telecom companies. If a telecom company breaks that trust and shares those conversations with a government agency (without a court-issued warrant), they damn well deserve to lose business over it.

                • There are many ways the NSA could abuse the information - one is by building contact lists of who calls who. This is precisely what they want to do in the name of fighting terror, but they get the same lists of people in various political parties, with ties to groups that expose various embarassing things about political leaders, have viewpoints that differ from their own or those in power (i.e. that the Iraq war is a total clusterf#ck waste of money and lives), whatever.

                  From there it is easy to decide w
                • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

                  Well, if you'd actually read any history, you would know, that not only illegal wiretaps were authorized by the "war president" Roosevelt, but also a few apparent rub-outs of American citizens by foreign (British) secret agencies.

                  That was also wrong, just because it has been done in the past doesn't mean it is a good thing.

                  But do tell me, how NSA (or its clients) could've abused the gathered information.

                  You mean how they can use unlimited information on all phone calls made by US citizens, because that is what they have. If you believe that somehow "terrorism": has to be involved then you're a fool, after all the whole point of there being no safety measure sis that no one is there to verify why the information is used.

                  Some of the more interesting uses are against perfectly legal opponents of the current govern

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        OP is dropping one telco thats sells your personal data for another that openly admits to outright spying on you...


        There, fixed that for you.

        You're naive if you think AT&T is the only carrier assisting various TLAs.
    • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 14 2007, @02:43PM (#20975467)
      It seems that Verizon is trying to sidestep the 12/2/07 deadline for new rules regarding CPNI, however, I don't see how exactly this accomplishes that goal. Earlier this year, the FCC decided to change the CPNI rules for carriers (both wireless and wireline) to try and beef-up the security around the call details that these carriers handle: http://www.ipbusinessmag.com/departments.php?department_id=6&article_id=23 [ipbusinessmag.com]

      One thing that is clear from the FCC ruling is that "The FCC changed this requirement to mandate that customers obtain "opt-in" approval from their customers prior to sharing CPNI with their joint venture partners and independent contractors for marketing purposes only." Verizon shouldn't be able to have a global "opt-in" through silence, unless they're trying to get that recorded before the more stringent policy goes into affect in December.
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      Second trick for stupid businesses wanting to do this sort of "tracking." I used to use this for Radio Shack all the time:

      Give them their own address and phone number. At least at Radio Shack they always have a business card at the counter. So many clueless clerks never even noticed. The few that do notice, "Hey, that's our number/address!" you can just chuckle and reply, "Yeah, you can field my junk mail."